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From January 1st, 2010, a driving license will be required to ride electric motorcycles. Two wheelers, weighing over 40kgs or exceed a speed of 20 km/h are considered electric motorcycles and will have to have a license plate as well as insurance.
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Theoretically they are not allowed on bicycle lanes anymore. Let's see.
:scooter:
Typical China, shooting their own industry in the foot! :eek2: Never understood why you'd need a license for an electric bike. I'm pretty fit and I can ride my bicycle at 40km/h on the flat and 60 down a hill, so why these regulations, should we have bicycle licenses too? Or just if we are too healthy? :lol8: :eek2:
I 'm being cynical again but, is there a possibility that the people making these laws drive cars? :confused1:
Less electric bikes means a healthier car industry! With the added benefit that there may be the possibility of less things in the way of the 'holy' car, making their journeys faster. However the planet cannot sustain a never ending amount of gridlock, steel mining, and fossil fuels being burned needlessly, there isn't enough steel in the world for every Chinese family to have a car or two each!
it's enraging that the government is so adamant about removing every way to ease traffic in its already gridlocked cities.
Does anyone have any guesses as to how bad it will get before china starts to recognise the benefits of two wheels?
There's a local bar that has car parking spaces very conveniently next to the front door.
Instead of being thanked for their lack of selfish use of road-space and non-emission of CO2, electric bikes, bicycles and motorbikes get a urine soaked alleyway a hundred yards away with no security. To enforce the rules they have the typical over-zealous chicken-flapper Chairman-Mao wannabe security guard.
Unfortunately most Chinese people can't drop the idea that cars are wonderful, and that people who drive them are better. They fail to see the context of western countries, where most people regrettably need a car due to the structure of towns and cities.
Most Chinese car users absolutely do not need a car, as rarely they leave a city, they drive because they want to, a difference that they fail to see every time. Everything is set out perfectly for bicycles in China, yet many the people are determined to follow an out of context copy of the American dream, and have a government which encourages them. We may laugh at the stupidity of it all, but it actually costs lives, because emergency services can't get through the grid-lock.
Ummm...when they stop making fists-full-o-cash from it?Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
:icon10:
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Another, more detailed article about the topic, which became a big issue in the public.
I think there is more behind it than just licensing and insurance.
Taken from article:
While it's a pain for them to require licenses on vehicles that previously enjoyed such low entry restrictions, what ol' Wang Fuhe says is totally true. When I first landed in Chengdu, ebikes were a priveledged luxury item like cars are now... almost everyone still rode standard bicycles. Then in only 2-3 years ebikes became more ubiquitous and crowded the bike ways careening though thousands of pedestrians and tri-shaws at 20-30km/hr while talking on cellphones, checking their cool-boy hair styles in the mirror all while straddling 20kilos of groceries between their legs. :eekers:Quote:
"They are even not licensed, the electric bikes," said Wang Fuhe, a Beijing taxi driver. "So they have nothing to fear. They hit pedestrians and cars then run away, barely traceable."
I remember I was riding my old style Phoenix bicycle to work one morning and, while cruising around a corner, some dick head goes wide and nails my rear wheel - literally knocking the bike out from underneath me. The response on his face was like "You shouldn't have gotten in my way". I wanted to fucking beat the shit head into a pulp but without thinking twice he just took off!. AT LEAST if a car hits a pedestrian, the police will generally make the car driver at fault... but not so for ebikes.
Many ebikes are totally capable of matching 50cc scooter speeds (and weight). Mixed with obnoxious, selfish, narrow minded, tunnel visioned, distracted by their own image in the side view mirror riders, they hit shit all the time. Regardless of the motor type, speed is speed and mass is mass. Tthey need proper training to know how to control vehicles which are usually HEAVILY under-engineered in the braking department.
Granted while ebikes make A LITTLE environmental sense and one would hope to see them used judiciously, they are still largely abused machines with untrained/certified riders. I say license the hell out of ebikes! If you need a license anyway, why deal with the crappy limited range that only gets worse and worse to become almost unusable in the winter after one year?
It may put more people back into gas motorcycles and scooters. :icon10:
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So I take it you don't exactly like E bikes Crazycarl.
They will just make lighter E bikes with lithium batteries.
Problem with that theory is it would take some real re-engineering for them to do so. If you REALLY wanted to make a lighter e-bike you'd need entirely new frame designs made of something other than modified steel gas scooter frames and plastics. If their regulations are enforced, they'd have to do some serious work to keep them under 40kg and still provide the cheap prices they've been selling for over the past few years. Unique engineering costs money, and who's willing to pay for that? We're talking to the tune of 20,000,000 units a year!
Also, adding lithium batteries still won't address the supposed 20km/hr limit which would classify them as motorcycles.
I saw a tv report just now that said some e-bike industry people are claiming the new regulations are there to protect the motorcycle manufacturers but I don't think that's the case since they've done just about everything they could to make sure motorcycles are hard or impossible to use where they'd make most sense.
I think they came to the realization that e-bikes are dangerous AND they can make money from them through regulation and licensing. :deal:
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Carl,
Although personally I hate E-bikes, as I don't see the point of them.
Either get fit and ride a bicycle.....
OR
Have some proper fun and get out of the big smoke on motorcycle.....
They make sense for many people commuting to work, or too old to ride far, and what's the point of polluting the air with a 50cc scooter that has no balls at all? This restriction will just become a bargain basement 10 yuan 'hong bao' Gong An occasional purge fine. Few ebike riders will become any kind of real motorcyclist, they will switch to buses, bicycles or carry on riding illegally. Some will switch to cheap Chinese cars which will just cause yet more gridlock.
Just because ebikes are ridden by idiots, so what, what vehicle isn't driven like that in China? How many car drivers have licenses, and how many just bought their way around the whole test for 10,000 and don't have a clue?
The reasons I believe are similar to why they banned motorcycles in Guangzhou and Shenzhen. It's this simple: keep the poor (especially city immigrant farmers) off the roads, and make them use mass transport only, so the newly wealthy can kid themselves that the roads will be less busy, and deprive the poor of any kind of work for themselves, keep them on a construction sight or in a factory.
Bicycles can easily be ridden at up to 40kmh on the flat too...so ban them too?
BAN THE PLANET! BAN THE PLANET! :lol8:
Not sure about the rest of China but when I arrived in Chengdu, bicycles required a kind of license plate. If you didn't have one, the traffic ladies could issue some sort of citation. :mwink:
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Now, only a few weeks after announcing the new rule, apparently it has been dismissed again :rolleyes1::icon10::eek2: Did the 2000 strong e-bike manufacturer lobby take influence:confused1::lol8:
Here is the read.
Well I guess there's still milk in the cow and not TOO many people are dying on them right? :confused1:Quote:
...demanding the suspension of the news rules for bicycles with battery-powered motors, on grounds "it is a booming industry and more time is needed for the policy-making process."
Bicycle association? Silly me, I thought when you added a motor to a vechicle, it became a "Motor Vehicle".Quote:
The SAC said it wants a faster creation of new national standards for electric bicycles, instead of counting the bigger models as light motorbikes.
The standards are being drawn up by the bicycle association.
Oh well... TIC!
:scooter:
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In my opinion this is good news.....why?
This is because in China any vehicle that isn't a car is seen as an irritant by the wealthy car driving elite.
Lots of e-bikes and less motorcycles, but more and more bigger displacement recreational motorcycles pushes the Chinese finger of blame towards the e-bikes and away from motorcycles, as there are fewer motorcycles, and are not considered a threat to the car industry or car drivers.
If a regular e-bikes needed registration then the only way for a city to rid itself of them is to ban motorcycles too, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Another article on the e-bike issue.
:lol8::lol8::lol8::lol8:Quote:
"Those who insist on using illegal electric bicycles and are actively defending their illegal behavior, regardless of other people's safety and are extremely selfish."
Hey...An chuan di yi Andy! An chuan di yi! :lol8:
Looks to be an interesting debate. My question is, if there were regulations since 1999 limiting the weight and speed of ebikes, how is it they were totally disregarded for the past 6-7 years???
Oh well! :popcorn:Quote:
The current General Technical Requirements for Electric Bicycles, which was formulated in 1999, stipulates that electric bicycles travel at no more than 20 kph and weigh no more than 40 kg.
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Yes, according to every Chinese car driver and taxi driver the pesky electric bike should be banned (especially when they don't set stuck in long traffic queues at lights, who me? frustrated and blaming others? hmm, sour grapes stuck in my black Santana going nowhere?!) But strangely according to every Chinese e-bike rider they shouldn't be banned, hmm.
Oh, so e-bikes are dangerous and unlicensed:WTFamI? Well when we sit down and figure out who really passed their car driving test without cheating, who has had their vehicle government inspected, who has insurance, a license, who actually follows the rules as they are written!
Actually from the accidents I've seen recently (not a scientific study) most of them involve cars, because cars are too wide to avoid stuff and the drivers too incompetent, few with e-bikes, despite there being lots of e-bikes. Also injury in accidents under 40kmh and even less injury under 20kmh are usually fairly minor.
Well yes I do, because I regularly ride at 20kmh, the same speed as e-bikes, the difference is I'm pedaling, they're not!Quote:
"Imagine you are riding a bicycle at 10 kph. (even though most go along at 15kmh). Do you feel safe if other cyclists ride their bicycles several times faster than you?" he asked.
It is extremely selfish and illegal not to drive a car and be frustrated and stuck at traffic lights, not to mention unfair he meant to say, how dare something I regard as lower status get from A to B quicker than me! (Smashes fist onto desk angrily). How can I justify banning something I don't like, he asked himself, ahhh, the 'safety argument' genius.......Quote:
"Those who insist on using illegal electric bicycles and are actively defending their illegal behavior, regardless of other people's safety and are extremely selfish."
When China finally sees sense and bans the car, the roads will finally be safer and less congested! yippee!
The regulation is in place since 1999 and it was (still is) up to the province or city on how to enforce it - all according to the DVDR *) principle :lol8:Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
When e-bike sales started to boom some years ago, this debate came up already. At that time they simply wanted to ban all of the electric bicycles and motorbikes but the manufacturer lobby prevented it.
Beijing city has started to issue plates after that for the electric motor bikes (the ones above 40kgs or 20 km/h). I am not sure if they need insurance but some guy told me that you'd theoretically need the "F" license (small motorbikes) to ride one. In fact, you see thousands of e-motos with plates in the streets of Beijing.
For my believe they don't want to destroy or harm this industry but create more stringent and meaningful rules for the future of the e-moto, which I think is a bright one in China.
*) DVDR = Different Village, Different Rules :lol8:
Why do you hate cars that much :confused1:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
You can die from falling off a bike at walking pace and you can walk away unharmed from a 80 kph head on crash, it's not the rule though but largely depending on proper gear / seatbelt and luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
The demand for mobility and dependency on cars went too far to ever ban cars, so that remains wishful (?) thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
P.S. not that I want to tease you :icon10:
Because they suck! :lol8: I've been driven to near nervous breakdown levels of frustration stuck in traffic, I hate that so much. Plus I've had a few friends killed by poorly trained car drivers.Quote:
Why do you hate cars that much:confused1:
Most car drivers are not very good, yet they often think that they are wonderful drivers, regardless of the country, and have nothing left to learn and cannot be taught anything new. Experienced motorcyclists however realize how much they don't know. For example I'd love to have instructors each more me motocross and track riding.
Yes wishful thinking....but you seem in favor of cars so much, maybe you own and drive one...?Quote:
The demand for mobility and dependency on cars went too far to ever ban cars, so that remains wishful (?) thinking.
Well I'm a car hater, I admit it!
Except when they are on racetracks and are rear wheel drive and have over 200KW of power, in which case cars kick ass!
I know a bunch of e-bike (e-bicycle) riders and also tried these myself. During rush hours, they are incredible fast, no way to follow by car or in some situations (red lights :lol8::lol8::lol8:) even by moto! The weak point of these are the batteries (performance, lifetime). If my way to work would be in the mileage range of an e-bike, I'd definitely have one.
P.S.
We own 2 cars (Volkswagen), one of which is 3 days and 700kms old :icon10: The car I gave away a couple of days ago was a "mychinacar" (sucks) :lol8:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
My daily work return trip is 150+ km and I cherish the relative safety and comfort of a car, particularly in winter (we had -8C, 40km/h winds tonight). I leave when it's still dark and I return when it is dark again. The bike is no option from November to February, neither is a e-bike or pedal one all year.
I hate traffic jams as well as ridiculous parking fees and therefore use public transport or the bike to go downtown.
I have driven 1 M+ kms (200k+ thereof in China) in cars, accident free, consider myself a safe and defensive driver (wife would disagree :rolleyes1:) and join add on courses from time to time, but I am aware that things can still go wrong :eekers:
BUT
I love motorbikes :scooter: - with 2 wheels :lol8:
I don't think anyone really enjoys commuting on a bike when it's extremely cold, hailing, raining or snowing. You could also add extremely high winds and sand/dust storms in there as well. For these conditions I'd rather be in a car as a matter of safety just as much as comfort.
The problem with cars only really appears when the scale shifts towards the massive end of the spectrum. Plainly put, they're just too much metal in order to move one person around. If they were used at full capacity a majority or all of the time it would be different but in many cases they aren't.
I unsderstand needing some protection from the environment but does a vehicle need to have 300hp and weigh 1500kg to move one person to the office and back every day?
If it's nice outside, just... :scooter:
:riding:
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Andy, of course to be fair often people need cars, especially in your situation, and at this time of year. Usually Chinese need their cars much less than people western countries. I am actually a very experienced car and truck driver in Europe, but I actually hate driving these vehicles on the road. I commiserate with those for whom owning a car is a regrettable necessity, but I can't understand why anyone would ever enjoy driving an underpowered front wheel drive car, especially in a city. But I do understand why it may be enjoyable on an empty road, it's just that I would always prefer to be on a motorcycle (weather permitting of course).
I am in favor of e-bikes due to the situation of one of my co-workers. He lives 3-4km from work, he is too old for a bicycle to be a practical option, and a car is too expensive on his salary. An e-bike is his lifeline, to imagine this being taken away from him, is a bad idea in my opinion.
this depends on the person :lol8::lol8::lol8:Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
Yeah, right but difficult to draw a line.
that's for sure :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
Temp (incl. wind chill) > freezing AND temp (incl. heat index) < 40C AND wind < 30 kph AND raindrop dia < 6mm = NICE (for me in Beijing) :deal:
Some more reads about the actual topic.
http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%...18-186682.html
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/wor...es_430670.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...t_12658766.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a1g_bLUPbGHk
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...ostponed-24440
First time I heard about electric mountain bikes.
http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/...ju4-798-75.jpg
Some business man has been selling E-bikes which are powered by lithium batteries in Australia for the past 2-3 years and yes they are made in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
I think they are under 40 kgs.
KTM has developed a prototype Dirt bike that you guessed it runs on lithium batteries.
Another interesting read on this topic.
HOnestly, 2500 fatalities in a country of 1.2 billion is nothing. If China could crack down of bad driving it would actually make the place safer.
Exactly! How many of the 2500 killed were knocked down by car drivers? People often quote stats to show how bicycles/motorcycles electric bikes are less safe than cars, although it's cars that actually kill and injure a lot of people on two wheels.Quote:
If China could crack down of bad driving it would actually make the place safer.
You have a interesting view on lost lives I must say.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamcanjim
They have toQuote:
Originally Posted by iamcanjim
A bunch of my staff is currently in training for their driving license or recently got it. It's horrible how much :bs: they get taught.
It ranges from funny to dangerous.
When you reach a speed of 60 kph you must have shifted into the fifth gear. :lol8:
The left most lane on is the safest on an expressway :rolleyes1:
In bad visual conditions, e.g. dense fog, you turn on the hazard flash not the lights. It saves electricity and therefore gasoline :eekers:
All this and much more :bs::bs: has been said by driving instructors :gun_bandana: