250cc options in China.

Researching 250cc bikes in Shanghai as my first beginners bike. I know there's plenty of knowledge in this forum so i was hoping someone could shed some light.

I was looking into the Honda CBF 250cc but the dealer said only the 125cc versions are available in China. Also looked at the 250cc Regal Raptor but i've heard some bad reviews saying that it's heavy, underpowered and overpriced. (that's not a statement btw, it's a truly beautiful bike) The Honda Shadow 150cc is also appealing but it's not gonna offer anything more than my little 150cc scooter.

I'm struggling for ideas...

I saw a review of the Loncin 250cc on this forum which looks amazing but i don't know any Loncin dealers, and to be honest i've never heard of them before. Any thoughts on that bike or a close equivalent?

My dream bike would be the Kawasaki Ninja 250R, but it seems they're not readily accessible either. It looks like the Yamaha YBR 250cc is my last available option but i'm stuck on the fence on that one.

My mandarin sucks so it's hard to get any decent information from dealers, hence my begging for answers from this forum. Euphorius has already been a great help. Thanks for that.

check here, lots of options named...http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...?2401-Now-what

dear dewsnap,

Good lord, I wouldn't wish a Ninja 250 (or any sport bike) on even my worst enemy in this country. that is NOT an ideal newbie bike for you, as alluring as it might seem. You want something with a safe upright riding position, not the semi-prostrate posture of a crotch rocket. thankfully, china limits us to dual sport type bikes and low-slung cruisers like the raptor. at risk of offending our low-slung members, I'd also be loath to ride a cruiser -- raptor, harley or otherwise -- in china, since the low, laid back semi-recumbent position, as with the sport bikes, puts you at a disadvantage for seeing what's around you and responding to all the shit that local drivers will throw your way.

as you can see, qingqi features prominently in chinaV's dreams -- but also his nightmares, as they are not one of the better service providers among china's bike makers, and far inferior to the good folks at Yingang, as you'll come to understand as you read through ChinaV's thread. (edited)

I've heard there's a Qingqi dealer out on Wuzhong Lu somewhere (which is kind of your neighborhood, if you are in Xinzhuang; at least it's in Minhang). As a matter of fact, it was a guy riding a Qingqi 250 who told me when we were stopped together at a red light. here's a list I just found in baidu, and the wuzhong lu outlet is the first on the list. no idea what models they stock...

上海东洲汽车销售服务有限公司 上海市闵行区吴中路669号 021-52060678
上海东洲铃木旗舰店 上海市中山北一路1028号 021-65426524
上海东州大柏树店 上海市虹口区汶水东路101号 021-65160678
上海乐嘉源摩托车销售有限公司 上海市三鲁路农机站 021-54336198
上海罗罗摩托车销售有限公司 上海罗店镇罗升路212号 021-56864685
上海易余摩托车销售有限公司 上海市南汇区航头镇富航路19号 021-58229625

cheers

You're certainly not wrong. The Ninja is a truly 'wild bike' and totally not practical for the Shanghai streets. Although that Loncin 250 that's posted on this site seems to be targeting the Ninja market. I wonder if it'll take off.
Well i've spent the day dragging the missus around the bike dealers, and i think i've narrowed down my search for the perfect 250.

We both instantly fell in love with the Regal-Raptor DD250. I was fully prepared to get the credit card out there and then, but she rightly kept me grounded. 14K for a bike of that quality is absolutely astounding, maybe i shouldn't convert everything into pounds but 1500 quid is a complete steal, and would afford very little back in the UK.
The other bike that had us drooling was the Shineray XY 250. We're both leaning towards the Raptor, but if anybody knows anything about either bike plz send infoAttachment 3163Attachment 3162

I think you really need the GF to sit on them with you for a mile or two on a trial run if she is a factor as a regular passenger! Neither of those seats look very comfortable and I see so many passengers with their heads up above the rider which looks off balance too. I hate weight up high on bikes even if the passenger does get a view.

My experience with a passenger is that the old-fashioned machines have best seats, then dual-sports as long as you pay regard to the exhaust and make sure it has guards. The worst passengers tend to look around and sit up and lean the wrong way, and on a dual-sport they sort of hug you closer which helps! I took a GF once on one of those high-up pillion seats and she grabbed me round the head with her hands over my eyes ... on the dual-sport her hands go in my pockets and she falls asleep ... thought of fixing a back rest and strapping her to it but at that point we weren't getting on too well so I considered that if she disappeared off the back somewhere in the bush it wouldn't be huge problem ... Hmm, GF and luggage? I hope she is asian and typically lightweight, lol. Maybe a sidecar ... or a bike each?

Jokes aside, my last regular passenger was about ten stone (not that she admitted it) and the 200cc was fine, hardly noticed the difference except in acceleration, once it wound up it was fine with the weight. But I am not sure even a modern 250cc is really enough for a longer haul with a passenger if you have any highway riding to do, so the JH600 might be worth a second, closer look. Have you looked at the posts by Pfaelzer, Euphonius and Milton to mention a few? I know Milton has taken his GF round the place a bit, he has posted here about it. Then again, many here take the GF on the back of the Galaxies and Qlinks so they will soon tell you how it goes.
What sort of roads you going to travel, you say Shanghai streets but from what the lads here show us, you are very soon on gravel or other bumpy roads once you start taking day trips and you are sure to do that soon?

Haha. Nice.
The missus isn't really that keen. She's an outdoors enthusiast and i somehow managed to sell the bike by suggesting camping trips on the weekends.
She just thinks the bike is pretty. I'll use the bike for weekend trips out to the country and the like.

Stumbled across this thread about the Regal Raptor DD250G. Useful chat. I'm thinking of buying it after reading this.
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ighlight=DD250

Here is also the Loncin 250 review i found on this site.
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ght=loncin+250

If this is truly your first bike I would get some old used bike to screw around on first.

Also, Jape makes a good point, neither of these bikes seem suited to traveling very far two up.

Regardless, I would suggest you try and log at least 100Km before you put anyone on the back. Passengers tend to forget that balance and leaning is what steers a motorcycle even if you tell them. A passenger will lean to get a view or try and lean against the corner because of they feel like they will fall off if they don't. The combination of a pilot and passenger without much experience is asking for a tumble/scrape situation.

When you do get a passenger, I've always found it helpful to tell them to always sit straight and try not to lean at all, I tell them to act like they are luggage and just strapped to the seat. When I've traveled much AS a passenger, I got used to leaning with the pilot (my dad) and this helped with maneuvering and also helped me learn how to steer a bike. After a while you could tell her to just keep her torso behind yours.

Also, even if you were just going day hiking, you would want someplace to strap at least one backpack. Of course she could just wear the backpack, but again Jape makes a good point that this (and the higher position of the passenger on these bikes) would put your weight higher and make it harder to push the bike around easily. I would at least look into getting some kind of saddle bags, hard or soft, for whichever you decide on as those would keep your center of gravity as low as possible.

And also twice, both of those bikes look sweet. Either would suite your needs even if your packing was not ideal, they have the basic qualities I think you would need.

I agree with what has been written. Pay attention to the passenger seat and position. For some coolness factor these modern naked bikes are designed like sports bikes, often with totally suxor passenger seat. If you love your girl you don't want to buy that kind of bike.

Quick update. 250 bikes i've found so far.
Not sure which bikes can be registered in China. The YBR, and Raptor definitely can tho.

Yamaha YBR 250 http://www.yamaha-motor.com.cn/mc/o2...250/index.html
Regal Raptor DD250G-N/NAC25 http://www.regal-raptor.com/eng/prod...asp?id=3&bid=2
Yingang YG250NF http://www.yingangmotor.com/product/...pe=8&infoid=53
QingQi QM250-2D http://www.qingqi.com.cn/en/product_show.aspx?id=128

I would probably buy Yingan because of looks.

The Qingqi QM250 2D does not exist.

The other three can be registered.

It's a real kick in the face about the Qingqi. I've seen a few ad's now for bikes that don't exist or can't be registered in the PRC. What's that all about? I'm slowly getting into it and trying to learn more about registerable bikes in China (particularly 250 street/sport bikes), but the options definitely seem limited...

...I've said it once before, but i've learnt a h3ll of a lot more from this site than i have in weeks of trying to contact the fatories and visiting the dealers. Big up MCM!

A week ago I was all for buying the Regal Raptor 250 street, but i've since had too many people (even dealers) give bad reviews and try to disuade me from buying it.
Meaning that's not an option for me anymore. Also the best price i've found for the YBR250 is 23,000rmb ruling that off my 250 wish list too.

That kinda leaves the Yingang, i agree with Moilami about the looks. It's a very sexy bike. I ventured to a listed dealer in Shanghai (Wuzhong Lu) only to find the bloody store was now selling furniture. Haha. I'll keep trying with that bike tho.

I take the motorbike theory test next week so it's still gonna be 2-3 months before i'm on the road. Plenty of time to find the perfect 250.

Good luck with the theory test. Have you checked the pretend tests out? I failed few times as it is not necessarily logical, then again, I haven't read all the material yet.
The more time the better before you make the decision on the 'bike but any one of a few models will do. The Yingyang would be a good choice, or as close as you can get in China. Should be OK on roughish roads too. The main thing is 'all the gear all the time' wherever in the world you ride today. Looks like you got the bug mate.

Shineray has a registerable 250 sports bike if that's your thing. You can go see it at the pubei lu bike shop.

http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp...oadleopard.jpg
http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp...y250-5a-fr.jpg

The engine is oil and air cooled and makes less power than their 250 supermoto, which is a liquid cooled DOHC. I never understood why they did that. Still, it's an option.

Noooo! Dewsnap has a young wife and a 7-month-old baby. No f*cking crotch rockets, please. Not even underpowered Chinese ones.

Yeah, i've been hammering the mock theory exam. I'm stuck in the 75-85 range so far. (90 needed for a pass. Have a go on http://www.gstxc.cn/kaoshi/cn/beginexam.asp )
I'm only half way through reviewing the bank of 800 questions tho. The translation is pretty poor so it kind of gives me a headache reading through the poorly written questions. Thanks Jape for the advice about the Yingang. I'll hunt down a dealer at the weekend... I've definitely got the bug.

The Shineray Chief XY250-5A (http://www.shineray.com/products-liebiao.asp?id=74at). Yeah, i actually saw that at Pubei Lu. I didn't really fall in love with it, i personally thought the plastic looked cheap, and i was too taken aback by the Raptor 250 street at the time.
Thanks Felix, seems strange that the sports version would have less power than their supermoto. I've read good things about the Shineray dirt bikes so far, perhaps The Chief is another one to pursue this weekend.

Haha, just seen your post Euphonius. Thanks for worrying about me.
(The stats i've seen show the Chief only makes 12kw's as opposed to the Raptor's 14kw and YBR's 15.5kw.)
I do agree tho that it doesn't seem suitable for urban (Shanghai) use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by felix

The engine is oil and air cooled and makes less power than their 250 supermoto, which is a liquid cooled DOHC. I never understood why they did that. Still, it's an option.

---

The engine of the XY250-5C is only 233cc, not 249cc - no idea from which planet this is coming from, type is 169YMM-A. That definetly is not the same engine as the XY250GY-2 or the YinGang has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

Noooo! Dewsnap has a young wife and a 7-month-old baby. No f*cking crotch rockets, please. Not even underpowered Chinese ones.

---

Would you rather see him on a YBR250 even though it has about 5hp more? I don't understand. This isn't a ZX10R, it's got a fairly upright seating position and probably handles well enough too. I don't see this as a crotch rocket, more a faired street bike. I agree the plastics on the red one at pubei lu do feel a bit cheap, most likely because they are. I'd like to see the green in person, it looks very nice in the pictures!

Remember though, not an ADV bike. For eastern china only!

I have devstating news! The list of 250 options just keeps shrinking.

I contacted someone from Yingang motors about ChinaV's delicious Yingang YG250NF, and here's what they said.


"But sorry ,now this bike can not do registion . ???? was successful to do regesiton before,but these days in China ,goverment gave us a rules for registion ,must reach EURO3 after FEB .28th,then can do resigition. Now it is already Mar.3th ,but our bike only EURO2,so now can not do registion. Pls check whether have problem for you , for normal chinese ,if not do resigtion ,must have problems....Pls check whether any favor in shanghai for you on registion ???? If have ,sure ,it is good . If no ,it is better not to try this model now....
...Price is 15000RMB /set including the freight charges from chongqing to shanghai . It needs about 3 days to shanghai" - Yingang motors.

(Jape, is it legit to quote people without asking them? I don't want to piss off the guys at Yingang or upset ???? in any way. )


15000rmb plus freight charges! That's a fantastic price. Looks like i missed out on the bike by a couple of weeks. Oh well, i'll keep looking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dewsnap

](Jape, is it legit to quote people without asking them? I don't want to piss off the guys at Yingang or upset Jennifer in any way.]

---

I appreciate you asking, proves I was correct before in asking you to explain, not just dealing with ya harshly. But don't get paranoid!
I know you meant legit on the forum probably but it is not that simple! Legit in China is not just a case of law, it is about obligation to my very limited understanding as an outsider. In other words, if you harm some-one's reputation, deliberately or not, you incur obligation. Applies in business as well as in personal matters, all is personal to some extent, it is how the individual self survives as part of a harmonious community with expectations of duty to the community.

International law, state laws, national laws all vary, so we just use common-sense. ie maybe snip the bit about favours as although we talk about them generally and know they go on, this is a direct attribution to an individual and could get them in trouble if taken wrongly or used by someone else in the future to back their own case for example. And perhaps paraphrasing, as long as you keep accuracy, is better. A general comment then that others can learn from, attributed to a 'source at Yingang' like journalists do. We do need and appreciate such information, it is just what the forum is for.

So as I said, none of this is drastic, but use common-sense. You should know the country better than I do by a long way and start to understand Guanxi and be building it for yourself as you go. The Chinese are learning how to deal with westerners as much as we are them

Did you get any idea if they are trying for Euro3 on that model, or are developing another version, or if you can modify it yourself to get it or does it require manufacturer licensing at that level? see also http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...2379#post22379

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by felix

Would you rather see him on a YBR250 even though it has about 5hp more? ...

---

Actually, I was thinking a 150cc would be about right!

http://www.honda-sundiro.com/images/...4353832532.jpg

http://www.honda-sundiro.com/images/...1585848979.jpg

http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...SZWd6i4118.jpg

Thanks again Euphonius. I've looked at all of those 150 models. They're all really nice bikes and excellent value. I like the Honda Shadow.
I think i'm after a 250 cos i don't want to be looking for more power after 6 months of riding.

I know it's juvenile but both of my scooters clocked 120kmph, and i'm wanting a bike with a bit more oomph.
I'm worried that these 150's wont offer anything more than my 150 scooter.

Jape, i'll try to contact Yingang again and see what the future holds for the bike. I'll report back as soon as i know.

The Yingang looks like a great choice, particularly with ChinaV blazing the trail.

This is China, so it's entirely possible that Jenifer only knows what she knows, and is not privy to Yingang's strategic plans. Surely any large-volume bike maker in China is stressing these days about bringing their bikes in compliance with Euro3 (actually, 国三 in Chinese) so they don't get regulated out of Europe and other increasingly emissions-anal markets, including of course China itself.

Perhaps Jenifer can sleuth this out for us. As td_ref noted Yingang is surely working on a fuel-injected upgrade.

You've got some time on your hands as you qualify for your driver's license. Maybe the planets will align in your favor by May or June!

Got a reply from Yingang and they said the EFI version should be ready in 2 months, and that bike will have the EURO3 cert. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I've asked for more info.

Dewsnap, I have a Sundiro Honda CBF150 too. Bloody reliable, tad underpowered compared to a 250cc bike. I'd wait for the Yingang. Got another mate who is going to try to get one.
Knowing China there must be a 'way' to get a Eur02 bike registered. :lol8:

Thanks ZMC. Yeah, i think i'll wait a couple of months.
Yingang said the expected release date is May 2011. (i should have my license by then) But only if they have no problems getting the Eur03.
They also said it could be before or after May and the new model will be 17,000 rmb including freighting costs.

From my reading, many EFI machines from the bigger manufacturers still have problems with reliability, needs a year or two more yet however given the choice myself i would ride the wave of new tech, too many advantages that outweigh the disadvantages. Instead of carrying spare jets etc on a long run, you take spare CDI, injector and put in an inline filter. Something the JH600 chaps have probably learned already!

Let us hope the machine they 'source' the mapping from is suitable.