Shaanxi n00b with photos (and questions!)

Hey guys,

First time poster, first time bike-owner from Weinan (A small city near Xi'an, Shaanxi). Here's my story:

I was a huge car nut in the UK. Loved my Hondas. Did a few engine swaps and car culture was a huge part of my life, but never even considered a motorbike. I moved to China and all that ended (No Chinese license, or car, or garage, etc.) Anyway, I've been in China for 2 years now, and I need to fulfil my need for speed.

So, a fellow-foreign-friend went out and bought a Honda CBF125. He did 0 research, and just got a mutual Chinese friend to buy it in the Chinese friend's name. Anyway, I'm into photography so I offered to take pics of his bike for him. While shooting, I got a chance to ride it. The bug bit me.

The very next day this foreign friend gets a job offer in Beijing, and he's going to take it, and offers me the bike for 6,000RMB. 2 weeks old with only 200kms on the clock.

So, this is where the questions start.

I wanna go legit. At the very least plates for the bike and insurance. Now, I'm not sure if my mutual-Chinese friend even got a FaPiao (tax-receipt) and I know that's maybe a required step for getting plates? Anyway; would it be easier for the friend to get the plates in *his* name; then "sell" me the bike? If so; is transfer of ownership easy? I have a residence permit with more than 6months remaining, and a long-term Chinese GF (could put it in her name if it's easier.)

What are your (experienced) suggestions? I know TIC, so any route may not be 'easy', but I'm after the easiest.
Also, I assume the price is good (I haven't bought it off him yet.) I looked on TaoBao, and they're around 8,500-9,500 new.

Attached are some pics of the bike. I know it's a girly 125, and it's technically not a 'Chinese' bike...but; hey: It makes me smile. :icon10:

Thanks,
VTECsauce

Attachment 3425Attachment 3429

VTEC,
Welcome to the Chinese bike nut house. Hondas are welcome here since a lot of our bikes are kinda Honda clones.
I can't help regarding the getting legal but I sure someone will answer your questions since this issue is constantly being discussed.

Welcome ...

Every city is a little different on "the rules", but I am pretty sure you'll need a fapiao. Are there identical bikes riding around with legal plates?

Probably the easiest way to have this sorted out is to visit the original dealer.

Cheers

Dear Sauce,

Greetings and what a fantastic tale about your entry to our crazyfun world.

Surely that's a Chinese-made Honda, so should be no problem making it legal, but you will need that fapiao. Find the guy in whose name it's registered, and just organize a transfer from him into your name, which will be easy as long as you have a legal residence permit. Oh, don't forget to get your license, which is another adventure altogether, as you'll see in copious detail elsewhere in this forum.

The pictures look great -- we want more! From the looks of it, you'll have a blast on that bike up there on the loess plateau. There are tons of rural roads all across Shaanxi. Just watch out for coal trucks!

ride safe, and keep us posted about your progress. You're a fine storyteller!

cheers

Hi VTECjuice,

Your bike is a chinese-built honda and more than welcome here! 6000RMB with 200km on the clock, sounds like a steal! Go for it if there's the original fapiao!

Just to confirm the last posts, yeah you will need a fapiao to get a legal plate on her. Regarding who's name it's registered in, i wouldn't worry about it really. I've been riding bikes with legal plates in other people's names for 4 years now, been stopped many a time and that's never been an issue. Even if the bike is not in your name, you can still get the insurance in your name. That's my case.

Also, have you got a chinese driving license? That would be the only document the police will see with your chinese name on it anyway, so if you don't have one of those they won't even know that the bike isn't in your name. I wouldn't recommend that however. In fact if i'd to pick one or the other, i would think that a driving license would be the most important thing to have. If you get in an accident that can't be resolved before the police arrive, you might end up in very serious trouble not having a DL.

Anyway how do you like living in weinan? I'll be passing through there in may on a bike trip, and then moving there (well xian actually) at the end of the year. Perhaps we could meet up for a few beers at some point!

Gorgeous photo that second is! I'm thinking of setting up my screen in portrait just so i can have it as my desktop.

awesome pics! enough to resurrect me from the dead. strobist info? (especially for the second pic!) do tell!!

also, congrats on the bike :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by felix

Hi VTECjuice,
Gorgeous photo that second is! I'm thinking of setting up my screen in portrait just so i can have it as my desktop.

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Ah, the old soft light and vignette trick. My GF did that and turned out to be an old clunker in the flesh. Matches me well I suppose. That bike does look cool, I agree!

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Originally Posted by Ekkicore

awesome pics! enough to resurrect me from the dead. strobist info? (especially for the second pic!) do tell!!

also, congrats on the bike :)

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What's your status on motorcycles?

got thrown off course due to monetary issues over the last couple of months, but everything is back on track now and the aim is to have one by mid-may.
wanted to see how one of our esteemed members got on with licensing in april for the qingqi 250 before i made my purchase. as i'm determined to go the legal way and make sure everything is right, i may end up getting the 200cc version if it proves too difficult.
but i'm back with more determination than ever so in a few months.. :riding:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekkicore

got thrown off course due to monetary issues over the last couple of months, but everything is back on track now and the aim is to have one by mid-may.
wanted to see how one of our esteemed members got on with licensing in april for the qingqi 250 before i made my purchase. as i'm determined to go the legal way and make sure everything is right, i may end up getting the 200cc version if it proves too difficult.
but i'm back with more determination than ever so in a few months.. :riding:

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Hate to break it to you, but there are no 200 or 250cc bikes that can be registered in China at this time, other than the Yamaha YBR250 (Maybe Regal Raptor?). My guess is that we won't see anything until next year, as the factories move slowly and the approval process is not quick either.

TIC.. :taz:

Cheers!
ChinaV

looks like i might have to go underground with my SQUEAZEL?! until he can be registered then...

GAHHHHHHH!!

Thanks all for the warm welcome, I'll reply to some of your comments!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Dear Sauce,

Greetings and what a fantastic tale about your entry to our crazyfun world.

Surely that's a Chinese-made Honda, so should be no problem making it legal, but you will need that fapiao. Find the guy in whose name it's registered, and just organize a transfer from him into your name, which will be easy as long as you have a legal residence permit. Oh, don't forget to get your license, which is another adventure altogether, as you'll see in copious detail elsewhere in this forum.

The pictures look great -- we want more! From the looks of it, you'll have a blast on that bike up there on the loess plateau. There are tons of rural roads all across Shaanxi. Just watch out for coal trucks!

ride safe, and keep us posted about your progress. You're a fine storyteller!

cheers

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Yeah, the roads around here are great, but (like everywhere in China?) there's plenty of stuff to keep you on your toes: Pot-holes, random piles of stuff, 3-wheel trucks on the wrong side of the road; etc. Will definately have to be careful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by felix

Hi VTECjuice,

Your bike is a chinese-built honda and more than welcome here! 6000RMB with 200km on the clock, sounds like a steal! Go for it if there's the original fapiao!

Just to confirm the last posts, yeah you will need a fapiao to get a legal plate on her. Regarding who's name it's registered in, i wouldn't worry about it really. I've been riding bikes with legal plates in other people's names for 4 years now, been stopped many a time and that's never been an issue. Even if the bike is not in your name, you can still get the insurance in your name. That's my case.

Also, have you got a chinese driving license? That would be the only document the police will see with your chinese name on it anyway, so if you don't have one of those they won't even know that the bike isn't in your name. I wouldn't recommend that however. In fact if i'd to pick one or the other, i would think that a driving license would be the most important thing to have. If you get in an accident that can't be resolved before the police arrive, you might end up in very serious trouble not having a DL.

Anyway how do you like living in weinan? I'll be passing through there in may on a bike trip, and then moving there (well xian actually) at the end of the year. Perhaps we could meet up for a few beers at some point!

Gorgeous photo that second is! I'm thinking of setting up my screen in portrait just so i can have it as my desktop.

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Let me know when you're passing through. If I have free time and have the bike all sorted, maybe we can say "hi." as for the beer; sounds good! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekkicore

awesome pics! enough to resurrect me from the dead. strobist info? (especially for the second pic!) do tell!!

also, congrats on the bike :)

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Nothing like some off-camera flash to bring the photographers out of the woodwork.
Lifted from the photos description on my flickr page:
=======
Strobist Setup:
One Nikon SB-600 camera left (low). 1/1 power. Bare.
One Yongnuo Speedlite YN460 camera right (high). 1/1 power. Bare.
eBay triggers and slaves.

Canon EOS 5D Mark II
1/200 sec at f/11, ISO 100

Canon 24-105mm F/4L IS USm at 24mm.
======
Oh, and I just sent you a flickr contact request. :)




I'm not looking forward to the shenanigans of getting a license. This city is so small, doing something like this usually results in a bunch of blank-looking faces from over-paid desk jockeys and things like "I don't know. A foreigner has never done this before. I don't think you can do it." blah blah blah.
So, wish me luck! However, with it being such a small place, I hope that *increases* my risk of just being able to give someone a few hundred RMB and be given a license with no test. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Hate to break it to you, but there are no 200 or 250cc bikes that can be registered in China at this time, other than the Yamaha YBR250 (Maybe Regal Raptor?). My guess is that we won't see anything until next year, as the factories move slowly and the approval process is not quick either.

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That counts for new bikes or used ones as well? I'm still hazy on the details of buying a used bike legally. Does it need to be re-registered or re-insured? There's gotta be a thread on here about that somewhere...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VTECsauce

I'm not looking forward to the shenanigans of getting a license. This city is so small, doing something like this usually results in a bunch of blank-looking faces from over-paid desk jockeys and things like "I don't know. A foreigner has never done this before. I don't think you can do it." blah blah blah.

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All true except for the "overpaid" part. If you got paid as little as these Chinese bureaucrats get you'd act exactly the same way!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

All true except for the "overpaid" part. If you got paid as little as these Chinese bureaucrats get you'd act exactly the same way!

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Well, I just mean the 'iron rice bowl' workers. Admittedly; they don't get mega-bucks, but most seem to work 3-4hrs a day and it's a job for life and a 'pension' there-after; so they know they can't be fired! I think I shall just go to all the relevant offices wearing my helmet; so I can safely bash my head against the wall :)

Oh; while I'm here - and saves from creating a new thread - does anybody know where I can find a PDF service manual for my bike? A Honda CBF-125. Or; failing that just some general bike-related documents. Give me a 4-wheel honda, a 10mm and a 12mm socket and I can take the thing apart and put it back together. The bike if anything looks like simpler engineering; I just don't wanna make any rookie mistakes. (IE: Un-bolt an engine-mount bolt thinking it's the oil drain plug. Derp derp.)

rapidshare for the manual.

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Originally Posted by jape

rapidshare for the manual.

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Doesn't someone need to send it to me using rapidshare? If so... anybody with a manual for a CBF-125? ^_^

I have it shown on my dedicated rapidshare search engine, comes up as on Usenet and a couple of others which have a small fee. I haven't used them so cannot say how good but usenet has good rep.
I have a Honda 200cc manual if you send me your email address (it is just under 10 megs I think) as at present I cannot get a successful upload of it as a file to the forum.

When CC comes back from limbo he may tell me how to do that so all can get it! I use the 'attachment' method to upload files here but it uploads all of it then says error. Getting some weird things going on, posts missing, searches not working etc. I have reported all this to CC again, waiitng for reply.

I suggest you also start your own thread for this manual as you are hidden inside another thread and that means it doesn't show in the title so people may not look and see your query.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VTECsauce

I'm not looking forward to the shenanigans of getting a license. ...............So, wish me luck! However, with it being such a small place, I hope that *increases* my risk of just being able to give someone a few hundred RMB and be given a license with no test. :D

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In a small city is not hard to buy a class-E license, so why not buy one as long as legit? I still remember how the nonsense written test got me headache, how little I could learn as a rookie driver from passing all tests (for 4 wheel).
TD

Parts manual is enough if u are skilled
CG125 w/ SAME Engine: www.honda-sundiro.com/images/se/SDH125-7D.pdf
CBF150 w/ similar config http://www.honda-sundiro.com/images/se/SDH150-B.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by td_ref

In a small city is not hard to buy a class-E ...

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Why not buy a "D" when it can be done easily:lol8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

Why not buy a "D" when it can be done easily:lol8:

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You are not going to driver 3 wheel for living, are you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by td_ref

You are not going to driver 3 wheel for living, are you?

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Illiterate peasant is "their" bread & cheese a "E" is useless dl :lol8: so they don't sell it.
At least in '10 can buy DL issued in Weinan :naughty: http://motorcycle.sh.cn/t_624570.htm

email sent, let me know that you get it OK

Photography posts moved, new thread created as requested: here

Jape, thanks for the PDF, and thanks Humanbeing for the links too! :D

So just to be sure and summarise:
C is car
D is sidecar and solo
E is solo (2 wheels)
These above all require residence permit or work permit at least 1 year (with 90 days or more left on it).
You can take test yourself by joining school or if you have DL endorsed Mbikes for your country you just take written test 90% pass bottom limit, 2 attempts allowed.

You can get 'temporary DL permit short stay' if you have DL endorsed for bikes your own country?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

So just to be sure and summarise:
C is car

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The "old" C is < or = 19 seater
Current:
C1 is for < or = 9 seater / < or = 4500 kg & < or = 6 m
C2 is similar to A1 BUT AT ONLY (It's holder is very RARE :lol8: )
If drives a 12 seater van (silmilar to Toyota Hiace). You will be screwed by ... (you need "B1")

Quote:

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You can get 'temporary DL permit short stay' if you have DL endorsed for bikes your own country?

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My understanding is that temporary DL permit is for cars only, bikes are not allowed. If anyone has any information to the contrary, I would be VERY interested to hear that.

I can only speak for Beijing, but as it is the capital it supposedly sets the standard for other cities. Hahaha ... well, that is the theory.

Driving Licenses:

Correct about the C1, D, and E types. Correct about "residency registration"

Visa requirements are based on duration of visa, not visa type (e.g., working versus tourist versus business versus student versus journalist ...). The visa issue can be very complicated, so I won't get into that. What is needed to know is that the "residency permit" will be granted on ALL types of visas. People who work (legally) inside China usually get a "residency permit" stamped inside their passport for 6 months, 12 months, or whatever. But all other "visa foreigners" in China MUST register their residency (in large cities, within 24 hours of arrival at the local police station ... in rural areas, within 48 hours) and get a little slip of paper. If you arrive and stay at a Hotel, the Hotel takes care of it (you actually are unaware it is being done). If you want any driving license, you have to get the Hotel to issue you the "Temporary Residence Registration Form". The Hotel never issues these to guests, unless asked (and it frequently requires a bit of effort to get the hotel to do it). If you stay at a friend's house, you must travel down to the local police yourself and acquire your own "temporary household registration" (complicated first time, thereafter it is 5 minutes).

Essentially, the rules are:

- 3 months and less (temporary driving license)
- over 3 months (regular driving license)

Temporary DL (visa of 3 months, or less):

Issued ONLY for passenger cars that are RENTED from approved car rental locations. A temp DL cannot be used to drive ANY other vehicle, including your friend's, family's, etc. They are NOT valid for motorcycles. The ONE exception is with an approved motorcycle tour, guided by approved "foreign tourist guides" who are accompanying you. An approved "foreign tourist guide" must take a special course for this designation.

Some tour companies ignore this rule and hope for the best (at their, and your, peril). Some tour companies provide temp DLs of questionable origin (again, very risky). Some tour companies do it correctly - but I am aware of only two locations that have actually issued these (Chengde & Urumqi - although there have been very rare and special exceptions in the South). I am also only aware of two tour companies that are operating legally within China, and perhaps a third.

Regular DL (visa more than 3 months):

If you have a motorcycle endorsement on your home license, you just need to write the written exam. If you do not, you need to attend a Chinese driving school for motorcycles.

==========
How do I know this stuff? Well, a retirement project of mine was to start a LEGAL motorcycle tour company in China. After almost a year of research, meetings, dinners, etc ... and sifting through the immense amount of B.S. out there about how it has to be done ... and using some pretty powerful connections ... I realized that it is just not worth the effort.

China hasn't quite accepted the idea of recreational motorcycling - it still believes motorcycles = peasant farmers hauling pigs to market. It still believes, firmly, that foreigners shouldn't ride motorcycles. It will change, of course, but this is going to be a very tough nut to crack. Frequently, I would be told "sure, we'll help you any way we can" ... and then once I raised the issue of motorcycles, the tone changed 180 degrees ... "motorcycles? No, can't help you there. You should think about cars."

Final comment - it is damn risky to ride around without a license in the larger cities. Many cities will immediately detain you (yup, jail) and then potentially deport you. If you get into an accident, ANY accident, you're toast. And, in Beijing, if you are riding a motorcycle, drunk, without a license, and get into an accident ... well, I definitely wouldn't want to be you.

Fantastic post, Richard.

Thinking out loud, if someone like Jape wanted to do a long ride through China, it seems his best option would be to arrive on a 6 or even 12-month visa, perhaps a business visa, and immediately apply for a Chinese Class D license using a Temporary Residence Registration Form to verify that the authorities (police and entry-exit bureau) acknowledge his legal residency. So he'd be tied down for a period of time while these procedures unfold.

That still leaves the bigger question of the bike itself. Would it be possible, or sensible, to buy a bike in such circumstances? Obviously not in a big city like Shanghai or Beijing, given the cost of plates. But are there cities (or towns) in China where the costs and red tape would be minimal?

If I were Jape I'd seriously consider applying for a job teaching English (and philosophy!) at a college in some small city in a beautiful place (Lijiang? Zhongdian? Xishuangbanna? Lh*sa??) where he could live out the Confucian ideal among adoring young people. I read in the I Ching that Confucius rode an XTR250. Meanwhile, Jape leaves the key to his place under the mat and those of us who can't take another day of grandma messing with our veepeeyens can fly to Oz for a week or two of beatrunning the Kinlon and cutting firewood....

cheers