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Attachment 6592
OK, this is the latest version of 'da Hooligun' as teased from Cleveland Cycle Werks. Kind of Megelli SM250-esque, but not exactly. Plus, the Megelli was never introduced in the US (not sure if anywhere in the world, come to think of it, as their only bike seems to be their full-fairing sport bike) while this bike seems to have a better chance based on CCW's track record. Time will tell, but looks promising!!
Better photo from CCW's facebook post:
Attachment 6593
Specs to follow the tease according to them...
It should have a dry weight under 290 lbs, they should tune one up and offer it to the press to compare against the KLX250SF and WR250X…if they plan on asking over $3,200.00 for them, which they likely will. It will need a favorable review by industry journalists.
They can tune one up and offer it to the press, then disclose that the actual model sold may be slightly different. Then sell the standard and offer upgrades for racing, fairly sure there is a performance cam and carburetor upgrade for the NX250 engine, that being above the standard Chinese set up of it.
Since CCW has offered three different renderings of the Hooligun, nobody would be surprised if they never get it to the market?
I have not really checked the weight of the engine, so I cannot be sure if it is inherently heavy? It may be too heavy to be compared to the Kawasaki and Yamaha, I simply do not know, but I do know that if they plan on offering one of the most expensive Chinese motorcycles they better actually have something competitive to that of the existing Japanese offerings.
I would also suggest that they actually compare test and develop the bikes to compete against the Japanese’s models, they should set up a flattering review by actually developing a balanced well made model.
Shouldn't; that motorcycle and this be sitting in showrooms throughout Asia with the Ducati name on them?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y.../Lifan250V.jpg
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/at...354808&thumb=1http://www.webbikeworld.com/ducati-m...ypermotard.jpg
I like things to match, I really would be tickled to see a mini Hypermotard and mini Monster, I really wonder if the L engine layout could be shrunk down into a 250cc? Made in India it would all be or could be affordable/feasible. I would think that it could or would be comparable to the Honda VTR twin that offers 30hp @10,500 rpm.
That makes sense to me, to offer that to the India market as a Ducati and gets back at Honda for making a copy of the monster in the first place.
The issue would be that of efficiency, the 250 would have to be lean and mean and meet all global standards.
Of all my rambling posts and linked images, it is the VTR250 that rates the highest its images get the highest hit counts and from all over the globe.
http://www.indiapricebuzz.in/bikes/w...da-VTR2501.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5_ewoocjMX...onster_696.jpg
What the Hell is a Hero...
Putting Ducati on these bikes would be interesting--however, they should be made in Italy I would think!
This is true; I do hope this one can be produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
Did this Megelli bike ever make it to market anywhere? The CCW looks similar...
Attachment 6595
Their full-fairing sport bike came and went in the US, and other parts of the world, but what about their supermoto?
Attachment 6596
Attachment 6597
side by side comparison
Are all Hondas made in Japan?Quote:
Originally Posted by culcune
For these to be a Ducati they would need ,for one thing, a 250cc L twin engine that out performed all other 250cc engines. If they were manufactured in Asia they should generate enough sales to justify the costs of setting up just that, that being developing a 250 Hypermotard and a 250 Monster.
Ducati only makes what people will and or can afford to buy, they stopped making a 250cc single when people stopped buying them. They certainly did not forecast for emerging markets and the current trends.
If small versions were manufactured in Italy they would have a price too high to sell into Asia as a highly taxed import, the demand in other markets would be to low to justify the initial costs …so they do not.
India should be the first choice, Indonesia second China is far too restrictive.
Megelli did sell the supermoto as a 125 in the uk and europe, 150cc in eastern asia, 250 in the far east as well if you on bike HK they have reviews on them there is also the naked version of the full faired bike
http://www.bikehk.com/report/2011/r4512/
The US was supposed to see all three versions, but we only got the 'R' full-faired sport bike, and then it fizzled out...I am glad to see Megelli did build and sell the motard; somewhere! Are they no longer building any of them?
they still sell and build all 3 models in asia, they havnt been in the UK market for about 3 years now due to quality issues on early models
tbh the "Da hooligan" images look so much like a aprilia dorsoduro
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
Is this Lifan in the market already or just a concept!!??
MJH, you have mentioned 'performance cam and carburetor upgrade for the NX250 engine!! Do you have any clue about this items in the Chinese market?
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...(aka-X2)/page4
From what I understand the NX250 engine is not offered up for legal sale within a legal motorcycle version in China, it would need to be approved for emissions and there is not a conforming version available domestically. Same with the Lifan Honda VTR copy.
The industry falls short looking at the Asian market collectively, with exception to the Japanese.
Most are not aligning well, not fully taking advantage in every way possible.
It takes big movements to make changes happen, investing in all the markets major players would be best and understanding the environment within and relationships between the markets in the region.
They all have growth rates and increasing production and a developing middle class, some seem to think that they can simply wait for the high end consumers to eventually come to them, greeted with a tariff and exaggerated high price.
There is nothing worse then a high markup, even if it is a class leading product, even more disgusting if it is a low cost bike simple ridiculously marked up.
I am offended that I cannot get a KTM 200 in the USA. But the price in Britian is what $6,268.00
I am not 100% sure but I believe it is subjected to a 28% rate, 8% tariff and 20% VAT, that would equate to a duty of $1,755.04 so that mean the manufacturer is asking around $4,512.00 in reality.
http://tariff.businesslink.gov.uk/ta...nDate=10/03/12
In India they are offered for around $2,998.00, the profit is in there all the hikes bring it up in realty, the bikes could be offered in the USA for around $4,500.00 and represent about the same profit margins as in other markets.
However if the sale are high in the domestic market then they benefit on the economy of scale, the more they make the cheaper the unit cost, because fixed cost get spread out over units.
Is an India made KTM worth that much? It would seem so the overalls for KTM are up 24%.
If the bikes were manufacturer in a country that had excellent import rates to other countries then it optimizes on marketability. But as for the UK it gets stung on the 20% VAT, but the other variable of 8% can be 0% or simply less then 8% for instance china is 4.5%
Its complex….but manufacturing in the markets with the highest demand is best and better if that market has good trade access with discounted rates.
I would say that Hero Motocorp should purchase Duacti and strive to develop manufacturing facilities in Borneo, that could get them easy access to both Indonesia and Malaysia? Maybe someone can convince the Sultan of Brunei to invest in that?
I wonder if the Italian engineers have the ability to develop a line powerful fuel efficient small displacement engines? The leader will also have to develop engines that offer less C02 output per mile and the easiest way is by reducing the fuel consumption.
People often say “if I new then what I know now”…truth is they seldom listen.
Lifan seems to be a better OEM for others than making their own bikes these days. Look at their home page for the American Lifan site which has not been updated since I posted this months ago--they mention all the bikes they are not bringing to the US versus what is coming! The above 250cc street bike is the only one supposed to arrive while their 400cc cruiser, their liquid-cooled 250cc enduro, and the interesting looking chopper shown on their home page are not coming. Also not coming and seemingly a hangup of theirs on their site is a 50cc 2-stroke. I have a feeling we will see 'da Hooligun' in the US before Lifan brings their naked 250cc as shown above!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Deom2i
http://www.americanlifan.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
I believe Yingang is NX250 copy as many original parts of NX250 fit correctly. If this is correct, then its like having a NX250 offed in china by Chinese company with are rebadge. But the original Honda NX250 engine is not offered up for legal sale within a legal motorcycle version in China, im i correct?
The engine is realistically only for export, as it does not exist in a compliant new model in the Chinese market, you could buy the engine in china but the motorcycle you install it in would not be eligible to be registered/plated. In 2010 the government raised emissions standards that engine stopped being offered and is in China, only for export.
I believe it to be a Honda NX250 copy and in that can take any modifications that were/are available for the original, it came in its day as a Honda with a performance cam option. I imagine that is what the Scandinavians are installing, not sure if there is a Chinese company making the cam or not?
The link in the thread is dead, the jmsracing link is no longer active. I would have suggested you begin your search for information there, they know or should know where it is manufactured.
I do not believe Honda manufactures that engine anymore.
MJH, i was not aware of emission standard in China, i knew all bikes manufactured in China are sold in China.
Yes, Scandinavians do fix the performance cam on the bike and also the MV34 Carburetor. MKV34 are Mikuni brand and some are TK brand as used by Megelli 250r.
I guess MV34 are better than the PZ30V carburetors. Change in carburetors will have a noticeable increase in power or re-jetting is a better option?
Honda has stopped manufacturing the engine long time ago.
Have you check the performance of the Honda 250R, it almost have same output with the yingang 250. This is quite interesting. Yingang boost higher compression ration and engine bore. Honda has FI but soon the Yingang will be FI too, will do the comparison.
Im searching for the performance cam for the Yingang 250.:mwink:
From what I understand the Megelli has the SYM engine, which offer more hp. I believe the PZ30 is very inexpensive and easy to get in china and why it is chosen where as with the SYM engine they choose a different carburetor.
The engine is also in the SYM T2, however that model is heavy for the small engine. The trellis frame of the Megelli is intended to lighten the weight if engineered correctly it offers less weight and better rigidity if done correctly.
Altering and engine configuration from stock is illegal in all countries with emissions standards, unless for racing purposes. The governments do not regulate emissions on race vehicles, so selling or altering vehicles from stock intending to be ridden on public streets is illegal. The only reason the components are sold to alter engines is for racing and those blatantly offering alterations for vehicle not intended to be driven off the street and in or for racing run the risk of heavy fines for doing so.
The fines are severe and retroactive per each instance or alteration sold.
So in the case of alterations to the engine on the Shineray it is a or would be intended for motocross, however that model comes in a form not street legal, it is sold stock without street legal equipment. Models sold that have only a street legal form have no defense at all for offering the alterations and would have no chance defending doing so in a civil case.
The cheap slip on exhaust is not intended to be sold for use on a street legal motorcycle, neither is all the rest…advertising or promoting the “mods” is foolish if not offering performance equipment for racing.
Most people do lots of modding to their bike, especially the guys with bigger bikes 600 and 1000cc. starting from intakes, air and fuel to exhaust..do they really get finned?
what i really what to increase my output power of my bike. 26-30 if possible. Can i do this with posing impact to pollution?
So i though a performance cam will be a good option.
Well, sym engines are like scooty engines, right?
MJH if you buy a factory backed sports exhaust its perfectly legal even if its not backed by the manufacturer if you tell your insurance of the modification its legal as long as it abides to a decibel limit, but hardly anyone tells the insurance of modifications as thats more cash spent going into some bankers pocket, soon the eU are trying to push a law of zero work done by the owner only by mechanics at dealerships which just sounds like a stupid idea meaning you pay to have someone else work on your bike when your mechanically minded yourself
Actually if the muffler has a catalytic element, it cannot be removed, not all bikes have a catalytic element.
Kennon it is different in the USA to the UK, insurance companies only cover liability, collision, fire and theft, it is the federal government that enforces regulations, its the manufacturer that makes a statement that models they offer meet regulations. The insurance operate on the assumption that if you are insuring it then it must be conforming, that being it has to be plated to be ridden and if it cannot be plated it is not conforming and then you cannot ride it.
There are parts that are considered emission controls and removing any of them is illegal. I do not think most of the single cylinder bikes have a catalytic element.
People modify bikes all the time, manufactures and their dealers cannot promote or sell items that defeat emissions. Noise is an issue for local police they can fine you if they have ordinances for such things, most do but enforcement varies.
If the muffler only has baffling is one thing, but if it is a catalytic material then that is another. Major manufacturers would never sell a part that defeats emissions, if it did then it has to come with a disclosure that it is not intended for street use.
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...lty-policy.pdf
insurance comes as third party fire and theft or full comp here, and there are tons of factory catalogs from manufacturers that include akrapovik exhausts yoshimura, and other performance upgrades even some that increase the bhp once youve run the engine in all services done down by the ,ocal dealership for that brand.
most exhausts come with a DB killer a insert for roqad use that can be removed for when you go to track days
This is really confusing now:confused1:
Back on topic...
They'd been announcing the release of 'Tha Hooligun' for ages, except it used to be a Qingqi QM250 with cooler fairings/graphics.
http://cf.mp-cdn.net/62/45/05cac6c0f...9f8b51292f.jpg
I wonder why they dropped the qingqi... Maybe they were tired of waiting for a factory that thinks it's acceptable to overshoot deadlines by 3 years.
The ironic thing is that Qingqi started selling their own branded enduro in the US late last year, but seemingly only through one dealership in the US:
http://www.jpmotorsports.com/pre_own...R0&veh=2382012
I think that CCW were planning on using their own Lifan-manufactured engine that they put in their Heist and Misfit. Not sure, but it seemed like that was what they were moving towards.
In the USA they separate sound decibels from exhaust emissions, the two are regulated by different agencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennon
All after market parts and the suppliers of the them cannot defeat that original manufactures compliance, they can only offer what is engineered to meet it or exceed it. The big suppliers do that or at least they claim they do that or conversely make no claim at all and or simply call it an after market racing or performance muffler. If it is not conforming to the decibels exceeding limits is a violation of FVMSS regulations they set the decibel levels. If it exceeds emission standards then it violate EPA regulations.
There are neither regulations on racing vehicles they are exempt, for off-road they are less strict they have lower requirements for emissions.
They are all dancing all over the line and there is no real way to easily enforce any of it other then require the vendors to make statements. Stating it meets or exceeds all regulations for street use on a specific vehicle or it is intended not for street use. Then if they are false statements they can be held to those false claims and fined, those that are legal are the most likely to point out those that are illegal. That is because doing what is illegal offers an unfair advantage to those selling what is legal.
the engine used in the Megelli and possibly "Da Hooligan" looks identical to that used by the Hanway SYR250NC Enduro/Supermoto
http://www.hanwaymotor.com/product-e...20250NC-01.htm