Saga 250cc- Keeps Stalling!

Hello all,

I am a very dissappointed new rider as I have just purchased (a month ago) a new Saga 250cc scooter that keeps stalling on me in traffic. I have been told (after the fact) that Chinese scooters are the absolute worst product on the market in regard to workmanship. Nice outside, cheap inefficient parts inside which require a lot of work to get the bikes in order.

I have taken it to the mechanic 3 times now becausee I either couldn't get it to start until I had tried 4-5 times on several occasions, or it would stall out on me when ever I decrease the throttle when rolling up on a light, cornering or waiting to go onto the highway. Very dangerous stuff!

Any suggestions other than get my money and trade in back and head for some other brand NOT made in China. This is my second Chinese scooter. My first was a RayBen 50cc. Lasted ONE DAY and had to be returned because it was missing parts and would not start afer I got it home....

very sad craftsmanship. But I guess that is what you get when you have 8 year olds doing a grown person's job......

Scooterchick

Screw the idle adjustment in a bit

I think the mechanic (also the Saga dealer) did that once or twice. He did something with the "choke" or something. It was idling too low when I first got it and he adjusted it. It went fine on one trip out. And then the next time, it just starting shutting off or taking forever to start. Once it cut off the same day I got in at the end of his parking lot. I'm like "REALLY!?""

sigh......I really want a 250. This is all that seems to be out there right now, but I ain't willing to risk my life for it. This will be the 4th time we have taken it to him for the same problem. My husband is pissed. We are supposed to get it back tomorrow. I will let everyone know if it runs ok or sounds and runs sluggish again.

Welcome to the world of Chinabikes. It's not going to be like buying a car, where you drive 50000 miles without thinking about service. On the other hand, if learning about engines and mastering repairs and overcoming challenges is your cup of tea, they can be great fun. See if there isn't a group of riders with the same bike, and team up for mutual support. Chinabikes inadvertently foster such communities, as you'll find here on MCM.

good luck!

I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination. So, I'm not into the tinkering with all of this stuff. When I purchase a car or anything else "new".....I shouldn't have to send it back for constant repairs or do repairs myself. If I had purchased it "used"...well, that is a different story. So, either the mechanic sucks and doesn't know his job or the quality of the bike is substandard in craftsmanship and shouldn't be imported ANYWHERE until they can use better parts or get people odler than 8 year olds to put the things together.....

I am NOT happy. This is why China has such a BAD reputation. Substandard products. I only wish I had known this before I purchased it.

ok, So....me and hubby picked the bike up a couple of hours ago. It seemed to be doing a LOT better. It rode smoother and the "sputtering like it was about to die sound" ( an uasually did) seems to be gone. He (the dealer mechanic guy) said that he had to adjust the valves. The intake valve (whatever that is) wasn't closing all the way. It was getting stuck in the open position.



He was offended that I told him either he sucked as a mechanic or he sold me some junk.....ha. I said,.....Well, I said either /or! He said it definately wasn't him and that it comes from the manufacturer that way. My feelings are, if you know that it comes to you that way, you need to make as many adjustments as you can BEFORE you try to sell it to someone.....(smh).



Then he went on to tell me about his 40,000 dollar car that he had to keep taking back to the shop. I told him "that's your choice"....When I buy a car or scooter, I prefer to have something road worthy and not make all of the trips back to the mechanic. Especially if I didn't buy it used! sheesh....



Anyway, all seems to be well now. The wind about pushed me off into orbit today! I will NOT be taking my maiden voyage any time today....ha



Thanks for all of the help everyone......I really appreciate it!. If I have anymore drama, I'll let you know......ha



Scooterchick

Dear Scooterchick,

How about posting up some pix of you and your reluctant steed? We love happy endings here in MCM!

Cheers

Attachment 7264Attachment 7261Attachment 7262Attachment 7263

Back in the saddle again.....:-).:clap::scooter: Mine is the grey one.

by the way, I just spoke to the mechanic and apologized to him for blaming him for manufacturer defects. But he said he didn't hold grudges....
sure sounded pissed off to me...ha. But he understood and said if I had any more problems which he does not anticipate, to bring it in and they will take care of it..

Hopefully, I won't as I would prefer to keep this one..:-)

what a great result
i am sure your mechanic is as pleased as you are

Well, Hopefully....neither of us are waiting for the shoe to drop!......I only took it up the road and back home. The real test will come when I make a 50 mile run or something like that. Let it cool down and see if it starts up again like it should and KEEPS RUNNING.....ha.

Scooterchick

Dear S'chick,

If the problem indeed was misadjusted valves as your wrencher says, and he indeed adjusted them properly as he reports, and the bike indeed is now running well, as you've attested, the odds are pretty good that he nailed the problem and you'll now be able to have a bunch of fun on this bike -- a bike that looks mighty sweet in the pix you kindly posted. The symptoms you described do indeed sound like a valve problem, so your mechanic earned his pay, and saved you a heap of grief.

Be super careful out there, wear your safety gear all the time, and drop us a note from time to time about your progress. I hope you can learn to love this scoot, and have a longlasting relationship that lives up to your username. Take good care of it, and you'll find that chinabikes, in the right loving hands, can deliver a lot of joy.

Ride safe!

Thanks a lot.....:-).

I wear my flouresant green kevlar vest, armoured jacket with reflective piping and panels, full face helmet. midcalf boots and reflective gloves with chaps EVERYTIME i ride. Even when I rode a 50cc.....haha

People told me I dressed like I was riding a Harley. I told them I didn't dress for fashsion, I dressed for saftey!:scooter:

Next stop......helmet cam. That way I can take video of all of my adventures as they come and go.....:-)

Happy Trails!

ok, So here is the latest.

Hubby and I took the bike out today. We have only had this bike for just over month, it has been to the shop for the same problems 4 times! Starts (MAYBE) STALLS IN TRAFFIC AND DIES ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME. Each time, the mechanic assuring us that he had fixed the problem.

This time, it started up just fine, but sounded a bit slow to me on the idle. Nevertheless, we went, topped if off with gas and went for a ride setting the trip meter before leaving. 21 k's later, the bike just quits on me. We got it started, but it sounded really low in idle again. We went about 5 or yards and boom.....just quit on me again while riding through a very crowed parking lot with lots of cars and people. Chris was ahead of me both times since I didn't know my way through the park.

We finally had to have it towed. The dealer refused to give us a refund and return our trade-in. He said they needed to send it back to the distributor who we got on the phone and complained to and we said that the bike has never run properly. He told the mechanic to bring it back to him and they would do the work on it. The dealer says he has gone as far as he can go with what SAGA trained him to do.

He rode it around a few times and it went just fine; even though we had just had it towed in. THEN, I said..." you need to ride it at about 20-30-k's and then let it idle for a minute. He did. It stalled. He tried to start it and it wouldn't until the 4th try. then he says "well, it seems to be fine now"....What a joke!

And by the way, he refused to pay the tow on it as well. I asked for a loaner bike; they refused. I told him they need to give me another bike or they need to give me my money back. They said they could not refund the money. I asked my husband if he signed something that waived a refund. He had not. We gave him the bike Tuesday and it wasn't ready umtil yesterday. Now, we had to leave it with them again. It's a holiday weekend here in Canada. So, it's sitting until next Wednesday to go to another city where the distributor is going to have it tested by THEIR mechanic. Who knows when it will come back. They have my money AND my bike.

I did take a video of us trying to start it, where we were, us trying to start it several more times before the tow truck guy started putting it up on the rack.

I'm digusted. I'm soooo done.

After having the bike out of the shop for the 4th time for one day only, it was sent to the Saga Canada distributor last Wednesday in Langley, BC. We called them ourselves this morning to find out what exactly was being done to the bike or had been done. The person who was at the front counter refused to let us speak to the mechanic that worked on the bike there in Langely. The first thing he said to us after we identified ourselves was that he didn't ever want to see that bike back in his shop again. Then he went on to tell us that bad gas had been run through the bike. We told him about the gauge reading empty and when we went to fill it up it only took a gallon. We don't know what they had in it before we bought it. But it only had 19 k's on it when we purchased it. We went on to tell him that we have only filled it twice and both times we used 91 just as we were instructed.

He said it was almost ready and that when they got the bike and started it, that it started right up; which is the same thing the other guy said in Squamish. Then he told us that they had put 10 hours into servicing the bike. We asked exactly what was done to it?? He said he didn't have time to speak to us because he had customers that were walking out of the store. He also said that there were things that "should have been done" to the bike that were not done. My husband asked him what were they and who should have done them....he said "Jamie should know"...I don't know the guy, but I hear he is a pretty decent mechanic." So, the buck got passed once again to the dealer we purchased it from in Squamish.

We asked him about the "never wanting to see the bike in his shop again" comment and mentioned the 2 year warranty to him. He went on to tell us that the bike doesn't have a warranty! That one cannot be added now, and that it has to be purchased at the time the bike is registered. WE WERE SHOCKED! Seeing as the website clearly says that ALL their bikes come with a 2 year limited warranty. He said you have to "purchase" the warranty and that there was nothing in the records showing where we did. We told him there was nothing on the website that even "implied" we had to purchase it and that we had printed it out. Keep in mind that when we purchased the bike, the dealer in Squamish (Jamie) signed and dated the warranty paper and added the affective date of the warranty. So, to be told that we do not have one is .....well..suspect.

So, we asked again, about speaking to the mechanic who actually did the work. "he's too busy to speak to you and we don't speak to customers!" You need to speak to "Jamie" He should know all of this.! So, we are not wondering if the bike "started right up" then what was the 10 hours spent doing?? We could not get an answer from them. Everybody is passing the buck to the guy in Squamish, and he is blaming them for not telling him everything he needs to know.

This is the absolute worst customer service I have ever experienced. . The bike has spent more time "getting adjustments" then I have been able to acutally ride it. I have taken it out three times since I had it and had to take it back each time because it stalled either when I was in traffic (rolling on the highway) or when decelerating to a stop.

I told this to the guy in Langley and said..."I could have been killed! This is dangerous!"...His response..."well, I know it is. Sure it is, but I really have to go now. I have already had two customer walk out."

The bike is supposed to be back in Squamish Monday afternoon. We were asked to call first Tuesday morning to make sure that it was in fact there before we came to pick it up.

what a mess. Chinese bike or not. Nobody should do business like this with their customers. My husband and I happen to be business owners in the lower mainland. We pride ourselves in good customer service as we know that your customers are the people who keep food on your table! The only thing they seemed to be concerned about was how much "time" THEY had put into repairs; which from our perspective have been less than acceptable since the bike has been in shop several times for the same issue.


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Hi Scooterchick

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. In fairness, it is not just Chinese bikes that have had stalling issues, although it appears to be the case that Chinese manufacturers and dealers seem to leave the buyers high and dry when it comes to dealing with the issue (unlike Japanese/Korean/Italian/American brands which actually try to fix things).

My guess is that Saga doesn't know what the problem is or, if it does, how to fix it. Sometimes, a manufacturer will build a faulty part and when it fails, the dealer has no choice but to replace it with yet another faulty part or, frankly, just hope the dissatisfied customer gives up/goes away. The Chinese manufacturing mentality is to sell a bike, not to service it. Saga, undoubtedly, is up against a Chinese manufacturer who couldn't care less about faulty parts or customer relations. Customer service simply does not exist in China. Those of us who live here have volumes filled with horror stories.

Nevertheless, you are in a developed country which does have options for redress (e.g., small claims court). The key is to have everything well-documented. Even if Saga doesn't give service receipts, most Small Claims judges will accept credible records (e.g., a diary) as evidence. Saga is the dealer representative of the Chinese manufacturer and, as such, has to accept responsibility for the product.

I see you've posted your experience on other forums, and that is great. It is always helpful to warn others about jumping off a cliff.

The upside is that it is only a motorcycle ... it isn't a heart pacemaker that has a stalling problem. But, I agree, stalling mid-traffic is definitely a safety issue and can certainly cause heart palpitations!

I know that it is not just chinese bikes that stall. We were on my husband's Yamaha yesterday and saw a V-Strom or something like that being towed. Might have just been out of gas. I don't know. But I do know that this is my second chinese scooter. The first was a 50cc RayBen which we purchased from a private owner. We got it home and it wouldn't start even though we had test driven it before we purchased it. Then upon further inspection, we realized that it was actually missing parts! We phone the former owner back and told him the situation the same day. He agreed to take care of whatever the problem was and called ahead to the shop that he told us to take it to. Well, we get there and there was the whole song and dance thing about who's fault it was that the bike was missing parts. The previous owner said he gave it to them for servicing. they were the last ones to work on it. The Dealer said, it came to them leaking and missing gaskets or something where the owner tried to put a kit or something on it. Anyway, we decided we didn't want it because we didn't feel it was road worthy. The previous owner promptly refunded our money. That situation ended well.

The point is, I have only had two scooters that were made in China, and both gave me headaches. I have had a Yamaha and a Kymco with no problems, ever.

And yes, the upside is that it was not a pacemaker or something that had to actually go inside me. I would have been dead and they still would have haggling over whether it was warrantied or not!

UPDATE-

There is a glimmer of hope yet. We just had a good conversation with the dealer who has assured us that he has our best interest at heart and will do everything he can to get the bike running. Yes, it stalled again before we even took it off the lift...TWICE and he had trouble getting it restarted. He told us that the last thing he wants to see is one of his customers getting injured.

So, failing anyone being able to get this figured out, He has agreed to give us our trade in back and our money. All we want is the bike fixed. I think that is all EVERYONE wants at this point. It is a mystery why this thing is so temperamental. Nevertheless it is unsafe and if it cannot be repaired, we are just happy that he has in fact agreed to refund us our trade in and money back and that there hasn't been any loss of life or limb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scooterchick

UPDATE-

There is a glimmer of hope yet. We just had a good conversation with the dealer who has assured us that he has our best interest at heart and will do everything he can to get the bike running. Yes, it stalled again before we even took it off the lift...TWICE and he had trouble getting it restarted. He told us that the last thing he wants to see is one of his customers getting injured.

So, failing anyone being able to get this figured out, He has agreed to give us our trade in back and our money. All we want is the bike fixed. I think that is all EVERYONE wants at this point. It is a mystery why this thing is so temperamental. Nevertheless it is unsafe and if it cannot be repaired, we are just happy that he has in fact agreed to refund us our trade in and money back and that there hasn't been any loss of life or limb.

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Damn, I like glimmers of hope, especially when they involve people (finally) doing the right thing. Hope this glimmer grows and grows and you get the bike you wanted!

As Lao Jia Hou noted in this thread, stalling problems are becoming epidemic among bikes, especially those using electronic fuel injection. If it makes you feel better, some of us owners of the Jialing JH600 -- including Lao Jia Hou himself -- have been suffering mightily due to acute stalling issues. It took a long time to get Jialing to respond, but recently we've been experiencing our own glimmers of hope.

Hang in there, and keep us posted!

This particular model has a carburator. Not fuel injected. They replaced it with a "new generation" carb. Which means it cannot be adjusted but is sealed or something like that. We will see. It was a short ride home yesterday from the shop and like I said; I'm nervous about getting on the thing now with it stalling out like it had been. Today...RAIN. Sooo, hopefully in the next day or two we can get it out and see if it starts and stays started like it should.

We just hope that the guy doesn't back out of his promise if it acts up again.

What? It rains in BC?

You are just prolonging the suspense! Here's sending you great glimmers of hope that the new mystery carb resolves the problems!

cheers

yep... it rains here a lot at times. I don't ride in the rains since I read for pleasure and not out of necessity. I have an Infinity for that! haha.

We are going to take the bike out tomorrow and Friday and give it a good blowing out to see what happens. If he feels it is a good bike, it shouldn't have any problems selling it to someone else. I really don't trust it, but said I would give it one more try. So, we will. I don't think that anything has changed though. And the idea of waiting for the shoe to drop so to speak doesn't sit well with me. But, I will cross all of my "t"s on this.

My 2 cent:
This bike seems to be a GY-6 type engine. Even mores given the fact that it's carburetted.
Now, the bike stalls. Let's see:
1. Change the spark plug. Original spark plugs on Chinese bikes are really bad. I mean B.A.D.
2. Change the ignition coil with the spark plug cable - it costs nothing but the original one on those is terrible.
3. Change the ignition relay (CDI) - costs nothing as well
I somehow think that it's not the valves problem since the bike SUDDENLY stalls. Valves won't malfunction suddenly. Sounds like an electrical problem. My friend here had pretty much the same problem with his 150cc GY-6 scooter. He replaced all the above mentioned + the new battery (since the original one was crap). Result: 2 years flawless running.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scooterchick

yep... it rains here a lot at times. I don't ride in the rains since I read for pleasure and not out of necessity. I have an Infinity for that! haha.

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I get it -- an affinity for sunshine, and an Infiniti for rain!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scooterchick

We are going to take the bike out tomorrow and Friday and give it a good blowing out to see what happens. If he feels it is a good bike, it shouldn't have any problems selling it to someone else. I really don't trust it, but said I would give it one more try. So, we will. I don't think that anything has changed though. And the idea of waiting for the shoe to drop so to speak doesn't sit well with me. But, I will cross all of my "t"s on this.

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Scooterchick, the anticipation is killin' us! Good luck!

We cannot change anything on this bike. First, we are not mechanics and wouldn't even know where to began. Secondly, it is still under the warranty. We have only had it a little over a month now. I know they changed the electric ignition thingee and the carburator. They said they did. what else, we don't know. Nobody would tell us. If we mess with it ourselves, we would forfeit any chance of recovering damages. So, we ride wait for a yet another stall, get our money back and get a Honda or Kymco. and NEVER pass this way again....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scooterchick

We cannot change anything on this bike. First, we are not mechanics and wouldn't even know where to began. Secondly, it is still under the warranty. We have only had it a little over a month now. I know they changed the electric ignition thingee and the carburator. They said they did. what else, we don't know. Nobody would tell us. If we mess with it ourselves, we would forfeit any chance of recovering damages. So, we ride wait for a yet another stall, get our money back and get a Honda or Kymco. and NEVER pass this way again....

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Right...I haven't considered a warranty thing... I'm a mechanic myself, like my Dad and my Grandpa, that's the reason. Actually, don't see the reason to have changed the carb. I believe those engines go with CVT carbs with a vacuum pump (probably that's what they meant when they said carb shouldn't be opened) and those carbs are maintenance free.
Well, if you want a reliable scooter where you won't be thinking what will malfunction next, that'd be any 4-stroke Yamaha/Honda.

It's just very frustrating as we do not have a working machine, have never had a properly working machine, and to be told from the very start that we would not receive a refund, get a loaner, or our trade-in back....well.....we are not happy.

Not our fault that they have not been able to figure this out. We did speak to the dealer AGAIN the other day after the bike having been sent to the distribution headquarters for a week, that if anything else went wrong he (the dealer) would refund our money and trade-in back. We are 6 weeks into having a BRAND NEW bike that has never worked properly and consistantly shut off. Usually, as I said when I am rolling on the highway or decelerating.

At any rate, there is no sense in replacing bad parts with NEW BAD PARTS. I'm sure they are not going to upgrade any "fixes" that they do.

I will never deal with this company again. Quality assurance and Quality control are certainly not their concern. So, customer service doesn't stand a chance!

vapor lock ? ( gas cap not letting air into tank so after riding a while gas slows to a drip draining from tank to carb resulting in bike stalling after being rode a while ) if so easy fix - new gas cap or drill a pinhole in 1 u have

would be awful to have all this work done because of a faulty filler cap vent

easy to diagnose , start bike let run for about 10-20 minutes (longer if just idling) - even ideling in backyard/driveway/garage , shut off then unscrew gas cap , if here it suck air theres your problem

These are things that the mechanics that worked on this bike should know. I'm the customer, purchased it NEW and as far as I am concerned ...shouldn't have to do a thing to it except put good gas in it and ride. They should have fixed this a long time ago. No concern for my personal saftey had been shown until two days ago when the dealer was tipped off that I was posting my experiences to forums.

We don't want to keep the bike in the shop for the life of the warranty and then at the end of the matter STILL have the same issues and NOW WE GET TO PAY for them to fix the crap they sold us!

I'm with DanDaMan that a poorly vented gas cap could easily be causing this problem. And it's something that a mechanic might actually NOT think of exploring. The symptoms that you describe fit the situation well. If there a strong vacuum inside the tank because the cap is not venting, eventually flow of fuel to the carburetor will stop. It happens on lots of bikes. Mechanics can waste hours looking for some mechanical/electrical cause, and not make this simple check. I would not assume that this has occurred to your crack team.

Dan's right: What a shame it would be if everything else is working fine, and it's something as simple as this!

Good luck!