Riding legal decisions-insights wanted

Here is the deal:

Harbin is a bike ban city. They do not give plates to bikes past a certain year.

My plan is to take a trip from Harbin to Xinjiang on whatever bike I buy. I do not plan to ride much in Harbin city limits, however the address of my residence permit is in Harbin.

So.. I have three options: (as far as I can tell-if you think of any other methods please tell me)

1. Buy a used bike with a plate and transfer to my name.
These bikes were all plated before the ban and are legal. The problem is the ban was awhile ago (not quit sure which year) and the bikes with legal plates are all in pretty poor condition, aka I would not be confident taking a long trip on one. Most of the ones I've looked I wouldn't be comfortable riding around the block on. They are pretty much all 125ish standard street bikes beat to hell by years of Harbin winter.

2. Buy a new bike, and have a friend in a city outside of, but close to, Harbin and register it in their name. Then it will be legally registered and I could legally ride it. I wonder though, if I got stopped in some random small town in Inner Mongolia if the cop would believe that, or think I was lying and take the bike. Has anybody done this option before?

(not much of an option)3. Ride without a plate, but with a license and insurance. This is illegal. I know. But literally every Chinese person I've talked to (including ones not trying to sell motorcycles to me) has said it should not be a problem. I figure if I get a bike for around 5000rmb, even if it does get confiscated its not that big of a loss. Really this is my last resort if the first two are impossible. If I exhaust all other options and it boils down to riding illegally or not riding at all, then I might go with this one.

Number two seems like the best one. If anybody else has done this please let me know how it worked. If anybody has any other ideas I would be glad to try them. I want to be as legal as possible for the trip I am planning.

Another option: move your adress to somewhere where you can register a bike in your name - and move back when it's done......

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Originally Posted by Morfar

Another option: move your adress to somewhere where you can register a bike in your name - and move back when it's done......

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Morfar's suggestion is indeed a good option, and has been done by others in other cities, though you'll maybe need some paperwork to make it work with the cops, like maybe you move to a hotel for a couple of days. Somehow I remember it was Andre555 in Kunming that did this.

As discussed ad nauseum in this forum, do NOT do option 3. Kiss of death.

Also, given how much bogus information you've gotten from your "reliable sources" up to now, how about just going to the Vehicle Management Bureau and ask them what your options are. You may find that it is possible to register in the city under certain circumstances. It's not unheard of to register a bike in a dry city.

You retake your drivers license test yet?

cheers!

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"reliable sources"

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hahaha

I have never registered a vehicle here, so I am not sure what exactly I need, but If I could use the hotel location as an address I'd definitely do that. Even if I had to rent an apt for a month that would work. There are several cities about 30mins outside of Harbin that would be easy to get to.

About the proof of residence, is a paper from the local police station what you need, or does it have to be your visa?

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You retake your drivers license test yet?

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Yup, took it for the second time and passed it! (thanks to the questions you sent) So now I'm onto the next step of figuring out how the heck to register a bike.

One more question about the "move my address" option, what happens when the address of my vehicle registration does not match the address on my license? Is the address on the actual registration, or do they just need the proof before they can give you the registration?

"A fool as his money are parted" or make that motorcycle:
As the others have said above and numerous other threads, don't opt for option 3. While it may seem easier in the short term, in the long term it's likely to come round and bite you, one way or another. And I'd take your reliable sources for what they are... subjective views. It's like stopping any place in Ch!ina and asking for directions from 10 different people - you'll often get 10 different answers half that contradict the other half. Since you are in a city that has a ban, it's likely then that the traffic office that issues plates, won't have any for motorcycles, so not worth the effort. I'd go for the option whereby you either rent an apartment for a month or two, or stay out an out of town hotel (which allows foreign residents) just so you can get the PSB registration paper that we are meant to carry with our passports on our person at all times in PRC.

Caveat:
Naturally you'll want to be registered in a locality that allows motorcycles and even more importantly which has the authority to issue plates for motorcycles to a foreigner. It's important because not all things are created equal in Ch!na. Then go shopping for a bike, and may I suggest that you look at one of the 600-650cc bikes on offer from some of the local manufacturers which are mentioned in the MCM forum... especially if you plan to be around here for awhile. It might seem overkill, but even you buy bigger than you intended, there'll be a market for your ride should you wish to sell it in the near future than sat you had planned.

You need, a number of items to legally register and plate your wheels...
Passport
Valid Visa (employment/residence)
PSB registration slip
Bill of sale
Sale Invoice (not the same as above)
Tax invoice
Quality certificate from manufacturer
Work unit approval (this might not be needed in all circumstances and locations)
Drivers license (PRC issued one for the correct category). This needs to be the drivers license in the name who's ownership the bike will be registered and plated to.

...think I've covered it, but will check tomorrow, anyway this will give you plenty to work on. Most of the items come supplied ex-manufacturer through the bike dealer depending on how you buy. If you were to buy bike (e.g. one of the new 600-650 from <whatever manufacturer goes here>) then it would be highly likely they will act for you on your behalf, though it's a good tactic to negotiate that as part of the deal when buying. Even a smaller capacity bike the dealer will likely help you, especially if they move reasonable volumes -they'll likely have the relationship to get you plated LEGALLY

Don't listen to those that tell, oh you are a foreigner you don;t need to worry about it - its no big deal. Yeah right, it's no big deal until the wheels fall off!

Dear Steve,

Bikerdoc has pretty much covered it, and, please note that a driver's license is not on his list of documents required for registration, so there will be no raised eyebrows about the different address. I would still suggest you just go to the Harbin vehicle management bureau and ask about plating a bike at your current address. The ban and registration are two entirely different things, and it may still be possible to register a bike that you then are not allowed to ride. It's maybe a long shot, but would save you a heap of trouble and expense. Don't ever assume, or take hearsay as fact. Just get the facts.

As one who rides a Jialing JH600, I'm with Bikerdoc about the attraction of a bigger displacement bike, especially if you are going to be doing substantial adventure touring. As Fred recently noted, you'd be fine with a YBR250 any where in China (except on the expressways), but the extra horsepower and torque can make a big difference in many different situations. Sometimes you need the extra punch to evade a perilous situation, and sometimes you just want it for sheer riding pleasure.

Finally, though the Jialing is facing competition in this mid-displacement class from seemingly flashier models from Qianjiang/Benelli and Chunfeng/CFMoto, don't count the Jialing short. It's a beast of a bike, and many of us are riding the bejesus out of it and racking up tremendous smiles per gallon. It's a hell of a fun bike, and will really chew up a nasty bit of unpaved track.

Finally, congratulations on nailing the licensing exam on the second try. I'm delighted to have provided a modest assist!

Keep us posted!

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I suggest that you look at one of the 600-650cc bikes on offer from some of the local manufacturers which are mentioned in the MCM forum

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As one who rides a Jialing JH600, I'm with Bikerdoc about the attraction of a bigger displacement bike, especially if you are going to be doing substantial adventure touring.

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I think a little bigger bike would definitely make life more enjoyable. I've done a lot of riding on a 1200, so switching to a 125 or 250 is a pretty huge difference. How does the engine size affect the registration process? Does it add any steps/barriers?

I don't think I'd be able to find one without traveling to Beijing or maybe Dalian. But I suppose I could get a temporary plate and ride it back here to register. What does a bike like that cost?

The three 600cc bikes are all in the range of 35k-45k rmb, if I'm not mistaken. There should be no restrictions on displacement. There may be restrictions on whether the manufacturers of certain models have done the proper registration with your province or city. The newer models may not be know to your local 车管所, in which case you may be the first to register. I was the first to register the JH600 in Shanghai, and this required some extra processing, including some measurements and picture taking. Again, this is not dependent on displacement, but on whether the manufacturer has taken the necessary steps to make your model registrable anywhere in China. We've often heard of bikes from smaller manufacturers that cannot be registered in some cities -- Beijing in particular comes to mind -- because they have not bothered with such registration procedures.

As for the JH600, you might find it in Beijing, which has a quasi-dealer, but pretty much nowhere else in China except Chongqing where it's made. Jialing does have a dealer network but does not push the JH600 through it. We in Shanghai all bought ours directly from the factory, though we do have a freelance factory representative here who helps us with service.

Such is life in a country that is still deeply conflicted about the role of the motorcycle in society.

Cheers!

I found a trustworthy friend who lives in a city North of Harbin who will let me register in his name, and an uncle who is a 交警 (can register it for me) and also owns a lifan shop. Which seems perfect, but.... he says you can only register bikes under 150cc in China. I am almost completely certain this is wrong (Maybe that city has its own regulations) Has anyone heard of this 150cc limit before? A 250 is wimpy enough, I don't think touring on a 125 or 150 would be much fun.

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You need, a number of items to legally register and plate your wheels...
Passport
Valid Visa (employment/residence)
PSB registration slip
Bill of sale
Sale Invoice (not the same as above)
Tax invoice
Quality certificate from manufacturer
Work unit approval (this might not be needed in all circumstances and locations)

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Does anybody happen to know the characters for the: 1.Quality certificate from manufacturer 2. Sale Invoice (not the same as above) and 3. Bill of sale? I want to make sure I get all of the correct paperwork when I buy the bike, as I will probably buy it in Harbin, then ride it to a different city to register. It would be a big pain to have to ride all the way back to the seller to pickup a paper I didn't get the first time.

Dude, did you just go ask at Harbin vehicle management office? On the off chance that you are making this harder than it need be?

There is no 150cc limit, unless it's just this town making it.

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Originally Posted by HarbinSteve

Does anybody happen to know the characters for the: 1.Quality certificate from manufacturer 2. Sale Invoice (not the same as above) and 3. Bill of sale? I want to make sure I get all of the correct paperwork when I buy the bike, as I will probably buy it in Harbin, then ride it to a different city to register. It would be a big pain to have to ride all the way back to the seller to pickup a paper I didn't get the first time.

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I think those are in my thread on Getting Legal in Shanghai.

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Originally Posted by HarbinSteve

I found a trustworthy friend who lives in a city North of Harbin who will let me register in his name, and an uncle who is a 交警 (can register it for me) and also owns a lifan shop. Which seems perfect, but.... he says you can only register bikes under 150cc in China. I am almost completely certain this is wrong (Maybe that city has its own regulations) Has anyone heard of this 150cc limit before? A 250 is wimpy enough, I don't think touring on a 125 or 150 would be much fun.

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Sounds like an avenue, but word of caution here... be somewhat careful registering under a friends name since you won't be able to do anything with ownership of the bike legally without involvement of your friend. For example be involved in an accident where the bike is impounded, or required to be transported back to the traffic police station or any some such situation where the registered owner is required to front up, then you are dependent on that friend. Need the bike inspection done, again you will need your friend to be there to present their ID card so it can get done. Need to get insurance etc, then again that friend with ID card will be needed. Any situation that arises that requires the owner with their ID card and you are dependent on that friends generosity, which might be okay round Harbin - though I recall you planning on riding all manner of places. Prepare for everything but plan for the worst case scenario - just in case. Worse, what happens if something happens to your friend?

While having a friend register the bike seems easy it doesn't come without complications and limitations.

As for the 150cc regulation, that sounds fishy to me, just based on the "you can only register bikes under 150cc in China" comment, as many of us have >150cc motorbikes all over China with legal plates. Sounds like your friends uncle (traffic police officer) is seriously misinformed, or referring to some local ordinance which in itself seems unlikely, since no city I am aware of bans bikes based on displacement, only on the basis of being a motorcycle/motor scooter or not.

Have you tried to find the traffic regulations relative to motorcycles in Harbin online using Baidu? Worth a shot, naturally Mandarin skills needed for that.

Remember that the easy things in China are complicated while the complicated things are easy!

Good luck.

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While having a friend register the bike seems easy it doesn't come without complications.

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That is a good point, you mentioned a few things I had not thought of.

In the end, I think I will have to go with this method for now. My work visa expires in September (not enough time left to register a vehicle) and my boss said they will renew it in late August. So even if I did decide to rent a room in a different city for a while to register the bike, I would not be able to do it till at least mid-September. By then my vacation is over, and its starting to get cold in these parts. So for now, I think the best option (for my situation) is to register with the friend. That way I'll hopefully be able to get some riding in before next year.

The good news is I picked up my license today, so I'm at least one step closer to riding and being legal. One battle at a time I guess.

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I think those are in my thread on Getting Legal in Shanghai.

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I just saw the English list but not Chinese in this thread:

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ering+shanghai

I could have missed it though. Or maybe wrong thread.

it seems in china things can get done one way or another, as in the western world development that is too fast makes the people crazy...so even technology is delivered slowly....here they have to get used to the idea of motorcycles being larger than 150..and foreigners getting licenses etc..... in my city i can buy a car and get a plate no problem...but a foreigner registering a motorcycle!!! "does not happen"...only because it hasn't happened..thats all... anyway..i have two....250 galaxy and a 650tr both i had to register in my friends name...which means she owns the motorcycles as the receipts are in her name.... i have both car a motorcycle lic.
there was some thought that a 650 could not be registered here...but a chinese guy has the same bike and he got a plate so i felt it was do..able.

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Originally Posted by kikikillercat

it seems in china things can get done one way or another, as in the western world development that is too fast makes the people crazy...so even technology is delivered slowly....here they have to get used to the idea of motorcycles being larger than 150..and foreigners getting licenses etc..... in my city i can buy a car and get a plate no problem...but a foreigner registering a motorcycle!!! "does not happen"...only because it hasn't happened..thats all... anyway..i have two....250 galaxy and a 650tr both i had to register in my friends name...which means she owns the motorcycles as the receipts are in her name.... i have both car a motorcycle lic.
there was some thought that a 650 could not be registered here...but a chinese guy has the same bike and he got a plate so i felt it was do..able.

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Tell us how you have found the 650TR so far? Any pictures and a full report or review would be great.

Opps, you beat me to it, as I see you have posted a little something about the 650TR here

Bought a bike today. A water cooled Lifan 125. One step closer to traveling. It is being registered in my friends name. They said it was impossible to register to a foreigner ( I know thats not true, but the only "truth" that matters is what the person who can register the bike says.

Anyhow, it should have a plate/insurance/etc... by Wednesday this week, and I will go back to pick it up and ride it home. I'll get some pics up then.

you don't really have to move out of Harbin, you just have to show paperwork that you live outside of Harbin. Get someone to agree to rent you a place, at least get the paperwork saying that you've rented someplace out Harbin, then go to the local police station there and get a proof of residence.

good, now that you have your license you can drive anywhere in China....can i ask why you live in Harbin? I hear it gets crazy cold there in the winter....good for riding in the summer??

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you don't really have to move out of Harbin, you just have to show paperwork that you live outside of Harbin. Get someone to agree to rent you a place, at least get the paperwork saying that you've rented someplace out Harbin, then go to the local police station there and get a proof of residence.

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I'm sure if I would have kept at it I could have got it registered in my name, but who knows how long that would have taken/how many hoops I would have had to jump through. I just took the way that made the most sense to me, and had a friend register the bike. That also makes it easy when I leave China too, as I will just give it to him, and its already in his name.

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good, now that you have your license you can drive anywhere in China....can i ask why you live in Harbin? I hear it gets crazy cold there in the winter....good for riding in the summer??

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I live in Harbin because I really like it here. Its a little like going back in time compared to most of the other big cities in China. The people in 东北 are super nice, and the food is awesome. I have 3 months of vacation in winter and 2 in the summer where I can go anywhere else I want, so my riding isn't really restricted by the weather. I can ship my bike to Yunnan for <1000RMB and then the weather problem is solved. The summer weather is great for riding, except for the occasional downpour.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

As discussed ad nauseum in this forum, do NOT do option 3. Kiss of death.

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Slightly off-topic, slightly on-topic.

A few of us had lunch with the owner of a bike dealership in Beijing. He told us the story of an unlicensed rider who rode an illegal bike (fake plates, no insurance) to his shop to look around. Happened some time last Fall. The unlicensed rider parked his illegal bike in the dealer's "parking lot" (dealer debates it is his parking lot).

Along comes newly-licensed Suzy Q in her massive, brand new Porsche Cayenne.

Sweet little Suzy bumps the illegal bike while she is trying to park, knocking it over. Suzy panics, hits the gas, and completely runs over top of the (now crushed) sport bike. The unlicensed rider comes out of the shop, swearing and screaming, noticing his crotch-rocket is destroyed.

Scared Suzy stays in the SUV and calls the police saying there is a crazy biker threatening her. The police come in moments.

Naturally, police take bike away ... also take unlicensed rider away (probably for one of those free 15 day "hotel" stays). Suzy's SUV needs to be platform towed as there was quite a bit of damage to the under carriage.

Dealer thinks "wow, that was exciting" and forgets about it shortly thereafter.

Zoom ahead to end of January. Suzy's insurance company contacts dealer and says he has to pay for damage to Suzy's SUV.

Apparently, the police said that the illegal rider has to pay 100% (totally at fault, given the bike should not be on the road and he didn't have a DL). Problem is, the illegal rider has no money. Zero, zilch, nada. Suzy's insurance policy covered the ... wait for it ... 40,000 rmb damage to her Cayenne. Insurance company wants to get its money back and is saying dealer is at least partially responsible since it happened on his property.

Anyways, moral of the story (and I think this has been mentioned before somewhere on this site), if you've got an illegal bike, no DL, and someone runs over your prized possession, you are not only losing your bike, and suffering the costs of repairing your own bike (if you get it back), but you're also liable for the damage to the other vehicle (regardless of the fact that the other driver was at fault). However, you do get 15 days free room & board. As for the dealer, well, I've no idea how that one will play out. He's confident his insurance company will fix it.

Not sure what would happen back home.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Slightly off-topic, slightly on-topic.

plates, no insurance) to his shop to look around. Happened some time last Fall. The unlicensed rider parked his illegal bike in the dealer's "parking lot" (dealer debates it is his parking lot).

Along comes newly-licensed Suzy Q in her massive, brand new Porsche Cayenne.

Sweet little Suzy bumps the illegal bike while she is trying to park, knocking it over. Suzy panics, hits the gas, and completely runs over top of the (now crushed) sport bike. The unlicensed rider comes out of the shop, swearing and screaming, noticing his crotch-rocket is destroyed.

Scared Suzy stays in the SUV and calls the police saying there is a crazy biker threatening her. The police come in moments.

Naturally, police take bike away ... also take unlicensed rider away (probably for one of those free 15 day "hotel" stays). Suzy's SUV needs to be platform towed as there was quite a bit of damage to the under carriage.

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Would had made a priceless Youtube video :lol8:

Has anybody checked if Suzie Q has won her licence in a lottery or got it as a birthday gift from big daddy?

.... no matter, whether Suzy wins her DL in the lucky draw as long as she has it.
LHJ is right -> no DL, no legal bike = all costs on you
BUT at least you might get 15days free lodging :-)

we can consider it the chinese way ..... buy a phone number ending 888 or burn some sticks at a temple of your choise .... then it will not happen to you :-)

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Originally Posted by ShuBen

.... no matter, whether Suzy wins her DL in the lucky draw as long as she has it.
LHJ is right -> no DL, no legal bike = all costs on you
BUT at least you might get 15days free lodging :-)

we can consider it the chinese way ..... buy a phone number ending 888 or burn some sticks at a temple of your choise .... then it will not happen to you :-)

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That should be "no DL, no legal bike, no insurance = all costs on you."

License, registration and proof of insurance -- that's the standard in any other country. Why not also in China? It's about f*cking time, and I hope they enforce the hell out of it.

cheers

The advice given here is honest, even if I am a slight hypocrite in that I do not have a license yet and have been driving a 50cc scooter for the past 6 months, but ONLY inside my small town where the police know me, and even once tapped some gas from a police bike to help when I ran out on my way to the gas station. The bike is plated, and insured though. I obey all traffic lights and would NEVER consider going anywhere other than to the local markets to buy food, or the occasional post office trips me and my wife do.

As a foreigner in China (even with a license, plates, insurance) you will almost always be considered at fault, simply based on the fact your not Chinese. To take any road trips, travel outside the area where you reside is paramount to suicide.

As stated....That should be "no DL, no legal bike, no insurance = all costs on you." , plus I might add deportation or revocation of your Visa.

with the statement:
"As a foreigner in China (even with a license, plates, insurance) you will almost always be considered at fault, simply based on the fact your not Chinese."

I disagree

In different cities I had (thanks god) 3 minor accidents with my cars and last autumn with my motorcycle. The accidents had never been caused by me. All time the police officers behaved correctly. Their decisions have been OK. The Chinese people who caused the accidents had to cover the repair costs by their insurances.

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Originally Posted by Lain

As a foreigner in China (even with a license, plates, insurance) you will almost always be considered at fault, simply based on the fact your not Chinese. To take any road trips, travel outside the area where you reside is paramount to suicide. [/COLOR]

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I beg to differ with that generalisation...

In my experience, the couple of small offs I have suffered through no fault of my own have been handled by the traffic PSB as I'd expect and have been found in my favour. In one instance the PSB called in the big guns (the PSB chief who handled foreigners for the district (from the nearest major city), on the first day of the October public holidays several years ago, accompanied with his translator who also had to be called in (none of which would have been easy as both were on vacation)... and even the offending drivers insurance assessor attended promptly and was sympathetic and agreeable to allowing me to put my bike on the back of a pickup truck (my neighbours) and trailer it back home allowing me to arrange repairs with my dealer where I'd purchased that bike. Had I been a local they would not have handled the case that day, until after the holidays, and the insurance assessor would have only allowed the bike to be repaired near where the accident had occurred. It was because I was a foreigner that the opposite happened.

Even on my return to the PSB station a month or so later armed with fapiaos etc for the reimbursement. When I claimed what I was owed by the driver (who was at fault) I was asked by the attending PSB officer if I wanted anything else. I only asked for a couple of hundred quai extra to cover my neighbours expenses (expressway tolls and petrol) which I felt was fair, though I didn't have the fapiaos as my neighbour had dealt with that side of things and never asked for anything. The driver protested saying that it wasn't fair. The PSB officer, said to the driver that he should shut his mouth and think himself lucky that I was not asking for more (hospital or medical fees etc), and that he should be counting himself lucky considering I was a foreigner etc. The officer even made some comment that if I'd been a Chinese that the driver would likely be having to pay more. Them's were his words, not mine.

Lain, you have been here in China a while now if I remember reading a post from you earlier (2.5 years?), though you are new to MCM. Some of us have been here for a lot longer than you, and likely dealt with many more situations than you might give many of us credit for. I myself have been here for more than a decade now, but I'm still a spring chicken compared with some who have been here for two decades and a few even more. I simply advise you that the comment that you made has not been my experience thus far.