Please PM Canadian Dave or me for information.
There are various matters that have legal nature, and better not discussed in an open forum.
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Please PM Canadian Dave or me for information.
There are various matters that have legal nature, and better not discussed in an open forum.
some Weeks ago a Mail was send to us with new Chinese Trafic Regulations, starting 01.01.09.
here is a Copy:
Dear Expatriates,
>
> pls pay special attention to the changes in regulations which will affect all foreign drivers in China
>
> According to various sources the Ministry of Public Security will implement new regulations valid as of January 1, 2009 allowing for foreign drivers to be placed under the same jurisdiction as local Chinese drivers. This means that police will have the right to detain and incarcerate foreigners suspected of being responsible for road accidents until the respective case is closed. This is in compliance with Chinese legislation which forbids foreigners to leave the country while involved in criminal or civil cases.
>
> In addition, the law will allow guilty drivers to be imprisoned for up to three years; possible incarceration period is up to seven years for those who flee the scene of a fatal accident. Assets and bank accounts of defendants may also be frozen upon request by the victim’s family before any civil suits to cover medical treatment, loss of earnings, damages for suffering and a police fine. Getting off without paying anything is not possible as police will usually allocate part of the fault in road accidents to all parties involved.
>
> In addition, experience has shown that foreigners are easily blamed to have caused accidents even though they are not at fault.
>
> Foreigners are therefore encouraged to revisit the topic of driving in China. Employees with company car entitlement should let their designated drivers take them and their family around. Private car owners need to be aware of the aforementioned dangers of driving in China. People not speaking Chinese fluently should keep a phone number of a Chinese speaker close by. Both groups should ensure sufficient insurance; a police record of any accident is necessary for the insurance to pay. A valid Chinese license is still mandatory.
>
> A Chinese driver can also be contracted privately; pls refer to the classifieds in most expat/city magazines for vendors.
>
Nobody likes thinking about an Accident. But shit happens !
Not really sure about the relevance of this.
I've only ever seen this pasted, never an original article. The English seems unusually good for someone who is a Chinese government worker.
All I want to say is this..a government can officially attempt to 'shut the gate' and then lock it for our own safety..however in reality people will attempt merely to jump the gate and possibly injure themselves in the process, so when trying to climb the gate, people should be given as much safety assistance as possible. The person will still try to climb the gate, with help or not.
We're not trying to encourage anyone to ride a motorcycle in China, in fact dissuade many from doing it at all, surely it would be better to ride in other parts of Asia? I can tell you from personal experience Thailand is easier, cheaper, cleaner, safer, more friendly, more legal has better roads, food and weather! So if a potential rider hasn't already ridden there, I would tell them to go ride there first and not bother with China at all, or at a much later stage.
This person suggests that company workers be driven by a local driver?
Yes, F1 drivers need a special Chinese driver when they came to Shanghai for the GP, this only embarrasses China in the international community. Yet you can just go to other countries in Asia and drive. China needs to sort out its road rules and legal framework to join the rest of the international community, and not try to legislate foreigners off their roads, because it just won't work, people will continue to come to China and will want to drive cars and ride motorcycles. Riding a bicycle in a Chinese city to an extent is dangerous, should we all be banned from this too for our own safety? :gun_bandana:
Sabine,
your post didn't have much relevance to the original. i think he made it pretty clear that the first thing someone should do BEFORE deciding to ride in China is to ask if they'd actually like to go somewhere else. China has a lot to offer the curious rider, but in the same breath has a painful justice system as far as traffic law is concerned. Know that although these new laws have been enacted, their relevance is still negligible. The basic law of portioning blame and thus settlement is still gonna be the same. i'll say one thing for the Chinese system, you don't REALLY need insurance as only the major extreme (i.e. you causing some disaster of epic proportions) is going to warrant using it and even then, your coverage will be EXTREMELY minimal and the deductible will be about10,000 yuan.
Just do what the Chinese do; don't drive like a maniac keeping speed down and you won't ever be in a high speed accident. Yes they drive chaotically, but they usually do it slowly.
:naughty:
I think there is one!
this article was an Information from Siemens Ltd. China to us Expats and was not written from a Government Office.
OK, so there is no official status. There is also no official status in newspapers, TV or the Internet but that didn`t means that you should not listen to informations you can get. I own a Chinese Driving License which includes the Chinese Motorbike Licence. A lot Expats dont have one and they dont care. A lot of Bikes are owned by Expats which have no insurence or enough money to pay if something happens and they become more and more.
Soon spring is back in Beijing and you will see 16, 17....year "old" Expat youngsters riding 150 ccm scooters and bigger engines. Daddy will pay, who cares?
Yes, there is a big difference between the written law and what happens on our roads in China, but that didn`t means that this cannot changing fast.
i'm not saying the laws can't and won't change, but i AM saying they won't change quickly. Also, the further you get from Beijing or Shanghai the more likely they are to be overlooked. Believe me when i say, if you get in an accident here and it's your fault, it's still a heck of a lot better than being stuck in the USA in similar circumstances!
i have a license, insurance and registration as well and though it helps, it doesn't mean you'll be working the gulag if you don't have it.
Regardless, the people that DO come here for a motorcycle trip, assuming they DO know that they'll be driving unlicensed, know they do it at their own risk. It's part of the allure i reckon. Outlaw biker and all that rot...
ZMC888 states very clearly it's illegal and that the potential riders should actually choose somewhere else. HOWEVER! If they choose otherwise, we of the Zibo Motorcycle Club stand ready to assist them in any way we can.
We don't deny your claims, we simply state that what you're saying is not likely to dissuade too many people from coming. Hopefully, the government changes other laws and actually gives people the option to acquire temporary riding permits right along side the temporary driving permits already allowed by law. This would be a great goodness as there's a heck of a lot worth seeing here!
:riding:
I want make something clear to everyone that has concerns about us helping foreign riders.
1. The amount of people who actually take us up on our offer will be very few.
2. We firstly suggest that they not ride in China.
3. We will then suggest that they get a job here and become a resident so have all legal paperwork, if this is possible.
4. If they still have valid reasons for wanting to ride here, we will screen them and not offer to help those that are very likely to get into trouble, (if they don't have enough money or riding experience for example).
So think about this; some foreigners are determined to ride in China, no matter how inadvisable. We know of people that have come to China, bought an unsuitable second-hand bike for too much without insurance. Set out on poor quality roads, and either gone home or got into trouble. Surely it is better if people are helped an put on the right track, and made aware of as many of the pitfalls as possible, hopefully with as much knowledge about Chinese roads as possible.
To do a tour of China the first thing to have, is as we all know, lots of money. In the event of any accident, the less well connected person will be blamed and forced to pay. This of course will always be the foreigner, except in unusual circumstances where it is absolutely clear that the other driver is at fault. Insurance whilst legally essential, in practical terms is almost useless in regards to motorcycles, as in China you pay first, then the insurance may pay half the money after the excess but with a probable upper limit of $30-50,000 RMB. Motorcycle insurance in China doesn't even cover theft or fire, and there is only one kind of insurance available.
Rest your fears, we won't be setting loose loads of clueless newbie riders. Only experienced riders armed with the knowledge (sometimes unhappily learned) of collectively over 20 years experience on Chinese roads.
... do nothing, because I don't think ZMC has any legal status in this country, China.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I am really surprised how far you guys lean yourself out of the window - in a quite arrogant way I have to say.
Before you start: we don't need to discuss driving / riding skills, performance of law enforcement or any other weaknesses you've spotted.
No guys, don't mess around here with your so called help and advice - it is BS, you know that and it does NOT help anyone. It does the opposite - it harms the few who are willing to follow law, rules and regulations, how weak they might be in your eyes.
Also keep in mind that cnn is watching - always.
Andy
P.S. I don't work for the government, but I respect the fact that I've been given the privilege to ride and drive legally in China.
Wow, and I thought Snortin's posts/resulting threads are controversial! :eekers:
I have yet to truely explore the country(ies) just south of me, but I think there is less controversy riding/driving in Mexico or south, than China. There seems to be a middle ground between the two "camps" posting here, as I have read of successful journeys by non-Chinese citizens in China. But it does seem like too much of a pain in the ass to make the journey there. It seems that starting off in Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. would be a better bet and alot less complicated.
I know that 'Beemer Boy' from ADVRider and our very own Crazy Man himself, Carl, have both done great stories on their trips, complete with many photos and/or videos (Buy Carl's movie--it's great entertainment!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:), but both were involved in major crashes, too, which would scare me away from riding there. Then again, Mexican drivers suck, too, and that hasn't scared me enough from riding there, so it all comes down to money--I don't have or make enough to get anywhere, dammit. Now I'm all depressed :cryfiddle: and will go to Mexico to drink a beer and some tequila and ponder the arguments of riding in China.
Hehehe... WHEEEE!!! I think what we have here is a failure to communicate!
:swords:
CC
What the hell, I thought we were friends, you could have at least sent me a PM to discuss these concerns of yours!
I can take a shit but I don't need government legal status to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinabiker
Yes of course everything everywhere is just like Beijing in the 1970's we should be very careful to shrink and hide, what if the government spies are watching? Or maybe in reality only care if there is an accident. How long have you been living here? You seem way too paranoid.
Possibly if we lived in Beijing we would be leaning our heads too far out of the window, but we don't. Every province and city is administered differently, what may be highly illegal or strictly forbidden in one place, no one cares about in another, or is only enforced on a 'purge' basis. Come here see the Chinese riders with no plates, no insurance, no helmet, the local motorcycle shop selling stolen Hong Kong bikes (again with no insurance or plates). The Chinese riders, many of whom ride unregistered BMW's and Harleys bought in Beijing, unregistered because that would double the cost of the bike. Chinese riders routinely do illegal things everywhere, get a grip, understand the country the way it really is. Many times in the countryside it takes a while to spot a registered bike!Quote:
Originally Posted by chinabiker
Yes, I mean it is an exclusive club they have let you join, with all those other fantastic riders huh? I mean people with only a European or American license for example, they really aren't up to the 'challenge' in the same way you are, are they? You're a much better rider because the Chinese government have been just so super wonderful and kind to give you a laminated photocard!Quote:
Originally Posted by chinabiker
You and some others seem to believe that you are special and exclusive somehow. It seems you are so pissed off because you perceive that other people are trying to damage your exclusive status.
The fact is Andy, many people come here and ride without a Chinese license every year, some of whom have even less legality than that. The fact that you do not like it does not change a thing.
Culcune, now seems less likely to ever want to ride in China than before, partly due to reading our post, if he ever got the money or inclination to ride in Asia, he'd surely go somewhere else.
As a result of our post probably less people will probably come to ride in China because we are just being genuinely honest, as we see things, our sometimes bitter experiences on Chinese roads will probably make people think twice about coming here, or at least examine the reason why they may wish to do so. With a balanced view people can make a balanced choice. Knowing that you will probably be blamed for an accident, even if it's not your fault, knowing how bad the roads and drivers can be, knowing the amount of money you will need, this helps people.
Our view is an alternative to you telling people who have an interest in riding here 'this is strictly forbidden, only I can ride here'. They may think you are arrogant and will want to ride here partly to spite you and opinions of people like yours.
I didn't have any immediate plans to go to China, or anywhere for that matter, beyond southwest Arizona, or into northern Mexico, so no one really scared me away, but I would have gone through Carl's suggestions and connections, or your club.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Yes, I was getting a sense of arrogance, but then again, Europeans tend (yes a stereotype) to be rules driven in situations involving driving/riding in foreign countries, as the rules tend to be fairly strict in the person's home country. So after thinking about it, I don't find the suggestions arrogant, but just pretty much by the book. the club, on the other hand, is giving out info/suggestions based on their knowledge. Neither is right, or wrong, and I think that one of you should ride to the other's place of residence, and beat the living sh, I mean buy each other a beer and shake hands. Now that I think about it, chinabiker needs to ride to ZCM's place, as he has a legal license :lol8::lol8::lol8::lol8::lol8:
:riding:
Culcune, I wouldn't expect to ever to want to ride in China. With Canada to the North, Mexico and Brazil to the south there is a lifetime of riding to do where you are!
Okay Fellas, let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. Maybe time for an out of country vacation??? :mwink:
I think Andy's main problem was the fact that the offer was so openly advertised and, to some people, that could seem like "arrogantly" flying a finger in the face of the law.
Even though someone may not agree with the law itself, and the very law may not even be enforced over much of the nation, nevertheless, some people will take offense to it and in theory, as a guest of the country one should be respectful to the laws and regulations. In certain countries - like China - you may ultimately be able to get away with this but if a stink is raised, the consequences could be... unpleasant.
Although there's no way to prove it, my guess is a majority of the foreigners who have experienced China by motorcycle have done so without at least one of the legally required documents. For now, that seems okay, but in the future it may be different.
While there are some total posers who have traveled China by moto, I think many of them were genuinely interested in experiencing the country, land and culture for all they could in a short time. Considering China lacks (and I think intentionally) the proper procedures for foreigners to obtain short term driving licenses it makes sense that in the lack of enforcement there is a way around it. Whether through ZMC or some dude at a local dealership, people will likely continue to get motorcycles this way and will probably continue to go on for some time.
If someone has the proper documentation (resident permit...etc..) to get all the necessary paperwork, I DEFINITELY encourage them get and maintain all necessary papers/licenses. If you're traveling to China and want to experience it without a proper license and want a bike, please recognize that it is a risk taken not only by yourself but also whoever is providing the machine and registration papers. Additionally, it may also behoove both parties to do so discretely so as not to cause problems for those that do try to obey the laws and feel that they are in place for whatever reason.
Case in point, there was a guy in Chengdu who got caught by the cops riding around inside the second ring road, in the middle of the day with his Chinese girlfriend (who did not have a helmet). The bike had no plates and he had no license...it turned into a real problem. The cops got all pissed off as dick-head was blatently violating several rules and then the news team showed up with cameras rolling showing this dumb-ass and the crowd of people around the "incident" saying "WE THINK FOREIGNERS SHOULD FOLLOW THE SAME RULES AS US." To be honest, you can't blame them for thinking that. They don't know how difficult it is for foreigners to get licenses and all they see is a foreigner who thinks he's some hot shit, violating some very simple rules... some of which (like the helmet laws) just showed him to be selfish and inconsiderate. The problem it gives me as a licensed (or even NON-licensed) rider in China is these kinds of incidents contribute to a negative image of not just motorcycle riding foreigners but foreigners in general. The place is hot and no one needs to be unnecessarily stirring any hornets nests.
Obviously this is a complicated issue and everyone has valid points. Let's emphasize again that riding without all the legal paperwork is a risk and the nature of riding in China is unpredicatable by nature. That said, sometimes you gotta do, what you gotta do and fact is, there's no stopping some people! :mwink:
CC
P.S.
:gun_bandana:Culcune!!! :lol8:
I find your arrogance breath taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinabiker
I see your planing a trip which will take you out of China and back in again at two different points is this not illegal for foreigners if not it is certainly a Grey area( not many foreigners have accomplished it).My cousin in law who works in that field certainly thinks so, right where you plan to exit China.
that must be why your on another forum asking how to do it.
But wait a minute didn't you just have ago at someone on this forum about someone asking too many questions on how to ride through China and was ticked off because they where going to do it illegally.
Or is it a case of" Do as I say but don't do as I do"?
But I guess if your a "BMW Motorrad Instructor license, which entitles me to hold "On-road Safety Riding" as well as "Enduro" trainings in the name and on behalf of BMW Motorrad and BMW Rider Training".
Your entitled to do as you please .You legend.
There is a saying
" the cow that makes the most amount of noise gives the least amount of milk"
Andy it seems you have a habit of shooting down other peoples dreams.
Why don't you try helping people rather than standing on your mountain telling people what there doing wrong.
Also Quote from china biker
Quote
P.S. Don't know where you are from, but image(sic) a group of Chinese guys coming along and riding in your country - without license, without rego, insurance, ... - you're not gonne(sic) like that!
Quote
Last December it was exposed that there was a fault /grey area in getting a licence in NSW which the Chinese jumped all over.did the general public care in NSW . NO. they had more important things to worry about. Unless the Chinese in Australia are selling drugs, extorting money standing over people or killing people (which they are not) the general public do not care.There are too many naturalized Chinese with legal licenses driving around dangerously anyway.
So yes there are a helluva lot of Chinese driving around inadequately trained on NSW roads exploiting the system.
Only Human Nature.
I'm not in any way condoning this type of behavior, this guy was a fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
I think you have said in your post a fair summary of the situation generally.
Yes, we are friends and from my side nothing has changed about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I may have been too rude in my reply - my apologies for that.
A bit over 3000 days, and yes, I am a bit paranoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
That's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
That's right too, but I am talking about foreigners, who complain about this and just do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Sorry, but I am a lousy rider and use the laminated photocard only to show off.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I can't remember mentioning that I am, or anyone else is, special or exclusive. The privilege is the same for every foreigner with a residence permit. What really pisses me off is that some dudes are screaming out "come to China, ride illegally - no problem we help you with that".Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Andy
The fact that I don't like Cola Light will not stop them from producing it and I don't expect that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I don't really care about people coming to China and ride illagally here, but I refuse to help them to do so, neither do I advertise it. It's their own decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Andy
You know, sometimes I notice that motorcyclists fight like bull-headed siblings or family members. :mwink:
All in all, the quality of people on MCM is very high and I'd like to keep it that way. With all the crap that someone goes through to stay in China for so long, it makes sense that we'd tend to get a little on-edge or paranoid; I've certainly felt that myself. Nevertheless, that is NO excuse for pointing fingers at comrades and ESPECIALLY even hinting insults of racial or nationalistic origin : the epitome of senseless, counter-productive stupidity.
At the end of the day, everyone is here to help other people because we enjoy seeing other people grow. It's good for them and it's good for us. We're bound to have differences of opinions and how certain things should be done, but fundamentally our goals are the same.
Now if we wanted to be productive, we could consider how to coordinate these ideas and efforts into something greater than the whole of the parts. If enough people got interested, it might even become a viable (and LEGAL) business proposition. One thing is for sure though, the good stuff doesn't happen when we're sitting around arguing like little school girls. :deal:
It may not seem like it but the work we're doing is important and greater than any of our personal issues so let's stay more focused on the :riding: and :goodtime:
CC
P.S. - Learn to use emoticons... :thumbsup::naughty::icon10::lol8::rolleyes1::eek2: . They exist for a reason beyond bored graphic designers. They fill in emotional information that is lost in text only communication which can, and often does, lead to misunderstandings of various intensities. :mwink:
OK OK!
This fighting is not helping anyone I agree. We have some err disagreements. :lol8:
So lets agree to disagree, you know where I stand on this issue Andy, but I've removed first post from this thread, to remove the issue which most annoyed you, the fact that we were seeming to advertise this offer to help other people. The offer to help is still there however, the advertising of it is not.
Well you were pretty rude in your posts, (you apologized so fair enough) but then again I was pushing the envelope somewhat in my replies, so sorry about that.
Also please don't get so paranoid, the authorities are mostly only searching for keywords on the internet for err 'provinces' of China which start with the letter 'T' or 'X'! :icon10:
I'd love to see a day when foreigners could easily and legally rent cars and motorcycles. I'm sure that would be a viable business for at least someone...Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
We disagree on this issue, but probably agree on nearly everything else, so lets see if we can still get along...mines a Paulaner Weißbier by the way. :goodtime:
:crazy: yeah, whatever he said...Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCarl
:gun_bandana:Culcune!
:icon10:
CC
Yeesh.. 2 pages since i checked last! Gotta hand it to the straight crowd.. they sure know how to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Meh... it's all good. :icon10:
The facts are these; we'd like to FIRST tell people that riding in China without a resident visa and license and registration and insurance (and a bit more government BS thrown in for good measure), is illegal and we advise otherwise. If, for some reason you're just so dang stubborn and fail to take our advice, we'll at LEAST point you in the most legitimate direction. No, it ain't perfect and IS inadvisable, but, you being the stubborn type, want to throw caution to the wind and drive the open road! :naughty: We here at ZMC know EXACTLY how you feel! We KNOW that Jones! We KNOW it's wrong! You really WANT to do the right thing, but that Jones is on you like a freaking bull terrier, YANKING and BITING! :eekers: WE FEEL YOUR PAIN!!! The first thing you're gonna do is come visit us and we'll sit you down with a gagger and a few beer and make sure the Jones is the real thang and you understanding the risks you're about to saddle up with. :gaah:
Now, after we've assessed that you're on an even keel and just not some ill informed masochist, we'll give you a mountain bike to get used to the local traffic while we set the ball rolling "acquiring" said moto. (This'll take a week or two.) :weary: While we're waiting, we'll give you all the instruction we can to make sure you're as equipped as you can be to face the absolute chaos of these roads. ...and maybe bunk you in the clubhouse if you're REAL good! :icon10:
We're DEFINITELY not saying this is legit. No, in fact it's likely you'll end up breaking rocks somewhere in Mongolia or become someone's ass biatch in some steamy bamboo gulag down south :chinese: , but then you LIVE for the risk, doncha???
If (and i say it in the BIGGEST way) IF you do come, be absolutely sure to bring the video camera to film to whole illegal thing! :pirate3:
For the straight ones in the crowd, we know your pain too! We KNOW your desire to follow the straight and narrow! :puke: Okay... maybe not... What can i say? We've been in China too long and have become corrupted by the system! WE DRINK WARM BEER AND WEAR THERMAL UNDERWEAR IN THE WINTER FOR PETE'S SAKE! It's not our fault! WE'RE A PRODUCT OF THE MACHINE!!! :terd
We heartily apologize for anything printed here that offends you. :bowdown: Please have Mercy on us! We'll try to be better sometime in the future! :naughty: :pigsfly2:
Oh hey, reading back how buddy got pulled over by the cops while he had his Chinese girlfriend on the back... BIG mistake! As soon as you have a national on the back, they have an avenue of communication. YOUR BIGGEST DEFENSE IS YOUR IGNORANCE!!!! :cowboy: (i learned that heeere too!!) :icon10:
WE ARE NOT LEGIT!!!!!! BUT WE STILL GO ON!!!! :thumbsup:
PEACE! :kumbaya:
BROS BEFORE HOES!!! :mwink:
(Did i use enough emoticons CC?)
:goodtime:
Well I'm sure you'll get the hang of it in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Dave
:lol8::lol8::lol8:
CC
Mr. Big, I agree with the common opinion to stop the fight about this topic. However, I feel I have to reply to your post where you are going to harass me again - as I feel you did in another thread.:confused1:
If it is arrogant to follow law, rules and regulations, then I admit to be arrogant. Moreover, Mr. Big, I remember a thread where a simple question was asked, I replied to it, neutrally and just expressing my personal opinion, and you started shooting at me. And now comes Mr. Big calling me arrogant - what kind of person are you man.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Couldn't find any question mark in you question, but I will answer it.:rolleyes1: Firstly I don't see anything wrong in planning a trip, Mr. Big - do you? Although not to your concern, I am planning to leave China for Kazakhstan and re-enter China from Mongolia. There is nothing illegal involved as long as you can prove that the vehicle is legal, belongs to you, or the person who it is belonging to, gives his / her written approval. You may need special approval to cross certain land borders, but this doesn't apply to the border stations I intend to cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
That's why forums are there. Is there anything wrong about asking, Mr. Big? I didn't get any reasonable answers anyway.:eekers:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Mr. Big, this sentence is hard to understand. May it be the case that there is a typing or grammar mistake? Or both? However, Mr. Big, I'll answer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Topic in the post you are referring to was: "how to register a bike in China".
My answer was not too friendly, I admit, but only reflects facts.:deal:
I can't see any context or relation to the topic we are posting about.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
I never planned to unveil this fact, but you have forced me to in the other thread - remember?:scooter:
You, and others of a similar opinion to yours, want to do what you / they please. Not me, Mr. Big. It seems I have to think about being a legend though.:icon10:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
There is another saying, Mr. Big: "dogs who bark, don't bite":taz:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
I think I am not destroying other people's dreams. I am telling one side of the extreme, while others thell the other side. Reality lies somewhere between. I am not helping, and definitely will never help, anybody to go the illegal way, but I am willing to help doing it according to the books.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
This is my favourite, Mr. Big. You got me - I do not belong to the elite of native English speakers, although I tried to cover it up. But Mr. Big, please allow me to tell you to clean in front of your own door first before laughing about others.Your (sic) sucks.:weary: See this:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Far off topic again, Mr. Big. The case you are introducing represents a loophole in a system, wherby the people who are using it, are the least responsible.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Finally, Mr. Big, I am offering peace, friendship, again my apologies for pouring oil into the flames and my very bad English.
I bury my weapons now and want to offer a handshake to everyone who might have felt offended by my aggressive posting. :deal: ??
Cheers
Andy
P.S. I hope I'm not over smiley quota now :lol8:
He's b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-c-k!
Don't quite understand how you can slag someone full tilt, then offer your apologies the next sentence. :confused1:
i figure those weapons are buried until the next person gets yer dander up! :lol8:
But hey, i'm ready to believe the best in people! Fill yer boots! TO BURIED WEAPONS!! :goodtime:
b-a-a-a-c-k, yes, I'm a bit out of www reach in far western Yunnan right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Dave
Do you apologize before you strike?:lol8::lol8::lol8:
I said buried - then buried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Dave
Andy
:rolleyes1: - Aright guys, everyone is bad ass. How about hearing something about Andy being in Western Yunnan?
CC
No, I removed the per/post smiley limit so there's plenty of room for more!Quote:
Originally Posted by chinabiker
:lol8: :mwink: :lol8:
CC