Dong Fang DF 250 RTB Bobber Information

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by axa

If you need to ask I think your question is answered, leave it be.
But some of us get this bike because they enjoy not only riding , but working on it.
I bout this bike expecting to work on it, which i do more than ride it...

I for one like finding things that are broken or unoptimal, and then the challenge to fix it correctly.

---

Yeah I dont mind working on it either. Like I said, my bike is a work in progress and like my Jeep bikes are easy to customize to your liking. My issue is not the work, it's the money. I dont have much of it. It's the main reason I bought this bike in the first place, it was cheap and the only one I could afford at the time.

On the flip side I would prefer to ride my bike than work on it. She is my first. And Im of the "if it aint broke dont fix it crowd". But even if it were perfect I would still add my own personal taste too it either way.

CAT is in downpipe , at front of engine though not in the front of the muffler ..........................................

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanDaMan

CAT is in downpipe , at front of engine though not in the front of the muffler ..........................................

---

drillilling out the muffler , is drilling out the muffler :p


im tellin ya , and everyone sub 200o lb's to grab that 33 to 30 tooth rear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barnone

axa,
Are you saying that I did not remove catalytic converters from my DFs with my hole saw?

---

what Im saying is that you did not remove your cat with a hole saw like mine.
I found it not readily possible to remove the cat with a hole saw with a very shallow depth.
Looking at yours, being that you provided a pic, I estimate depth was likely 2 or 2.5x its diameter, were mine wasn't even 1.

What ended up happening was i'd cut a nice neat looking perimeter, and the piece wouldn't break away from the longer mass. That was my original concern as i didnt know how rigid or deep the element would be.

that said, thanks for the info, thats one mod that ive always passed on my bikes as i didnt want to be the first...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobthebobber

How does she sound and ride now ?

---

Without the cat sound seems very similar to me, I have a hard time determining any differences just yet.
The first thing i have noticed is the lost the back fire. Which doesn't make sense to me on its face value.
So I should note i had just added the reverse air ram 2 days earlier, so perhaps that is was killed the backfire, but i was too busy paying attention to the eliminated top end sputter.

The next thing i noticed now with the combination of no cat and reverse air ram is while all out cruising, closing the choke a quarter or even a third perhaps bit has little to no noticeable effect on the engine at top RPM.
So this must be direct evidence that airflow has notably increased.

This makes me personally believe top end sputter is caused from an air shortage, which again was eliminated just with the rev air ram. But i didn't try this test before removing the cat.

But I have to admit, ive been pretty fortunate, Ive never had any problems except that sputter and the ride is pretty much the same as always.

Next step is to open my jets and see if i can get some more power.
Mine are still all stock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanDaMan

CAT is in downpipe , at front of engine though not in the front of the muffler ..........................................

---

It was on the 2010 DF but not on the 2012 DF. It is in the front of the muffler as I stated in a previous post. That is why it is important to mention what year DF you have and to remember that DanDaMan has a different bike but the same engine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barnone

I did mention that I removed the catalytic converter which reduces the back pressure in the exhaust and that should allow more air/fuel to flow through the system therefore needing the larger jets.

Anyway, whatever works for you is good.

---

I have to second that, I think our 2012 bikes are bordering on a rich condition to begin with.

As ive said now a bunch and dont mean to repeat, but just adding the air ram eliminated the sputter and allowed me to REV as high as 7k resulting in a slightly higher top end (slightly downhill be it)
Before that I tried applied a bit of choke to test a lean condition, and had immediate engine trouble.

Doing this now has little effect, so thats my first piece of rich evidence.
Second is even with both air modifications, -cat and +ram, it seems to have a very limited amount effect when closing the fuel/air mix screw. that i believe would close off the slow pilot jet, so reducing the fuel at idle (as little as one turn from seated) and it will still idle smooth. That said it also seems to idle well all the way to 4 turns... (so im still probably doing something wrong here. I do adjust a half turn at a time and wait about 15 seconds for a response...)

I'm going to ride around for a while with choke full open, and as soon as i remember pull the plug, i expect to see a slight to moderate lean condition... but if i dont, then that will be the third peice of evidence for me to judge these bikes come at least a bit rich.

While even though dan may protest, rich afaik is a safer condition. A bike might seem to run well a bit lean, but i haven't yet found evidence that it adds power, the added heat i don't imagine helps anything. but we'll see

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GonzoX

Yeah I dont mind working on it either. Like I said, my bike is a work in progress and like my Jeep bikes are easy to customize to your liking. My issue is not the work, it's the money. I dont have much of it. It's the main reason I bought this bike in the first place, it was cheap and the only one I could afford at the time.

On the flip side I would prefer to ride my bike than work on it. She is my first. And Im of the "if it aint broke dont fix it crowd". But even if it were perfect I would still add my own personal taste too it either way.

---

I hear ya, i too bought into this cuz the low buy in cost.
but its all a personal preference and how you prioritize your time and money.
that said, you can always work on the looks if dont feel confident to work on the performance.
its not like all these tune ups will buy you much at all...
The sprocket change is like 90%, all the rest is quite marginal.

how about this for a signature
only, i get the feeling people will get tired of seeing it

your right rich is safer , and even though having it start to lean out near max speed because of air ram does "slightly" increase power , its almost pointless because it only has 9-11 horsepower to begin with :p so another .2 hp isn't much , with the added danger of added heat

but doing a chop plug check at 50 I'm dark brown , chop plug check at 73 its light brown

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanDaMan

your right rich is safer , and even though having it start to lean out near max speed because of air ram does "slightly" increase power , its almost pointless because it only has 9-11 horsepower to begin with :p so another .2 hp isn't much , with the added danger of added heat

but doing a chop plug check at 50 I'm dark brown , chop plug check at 73 its light brown

---

i hear ya

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barnone

Got the 30 tooth rear sprocket installed and tested a little. I don't have a long straight away here in the mountains close to our cabin so will have to try a high speed run tomorrow when I have more time. I did get close to 30 MPH in first gear which is nice and did not have any problem going up my steep gravel driveway.
Attachment 13067
The sprocket sure looks small. So I am now running a 30/13 vs the stock 45/13. Big difference and I believe a keeper but will do more testing before recommending it. I think the drive ability is improved.

---

hows testing going?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by axa

I have to second that, I think our 2012 bikes are bordering on a rich condition to begin with.

As ive said now a bunch and dont mean to repeat, but just adding the air ram eliminated the sputter and allowed me to REV as high as 7k resulting in a slightly higher top end (slightly downhill be it)
Before that I tried applied a bit of choke to test a lean condition, and had immediate engine trouble.

Doing this now has little effect, so thats my first piece of rich evidence.
Second is even with both air modifications, -cat and +ram, it seems to have a very limited amount effect when closing the fuel/air mix screw. that i believe would close off the slow pilot jet, so reducing the fuel at idle (as little as one turn from seated) and it will still idle smooth. That said it also seems to idle well all the way to 4 turns... (so im still probably doing something wrong here. I do adjust a half turn at a time and wait about 15 seconds for a response...)

I'm going to ride around for a while with choke full open, and as soon as i remember pull the plug, i expect to see a slight to moderate lean condition... but if i dont, then that will be the third peice of evidence for me to judge these bikes come at least a bit rich.

While even though dan may protest, rich afaik is a safer condition. A bike might seem to run well a bit lean, but i haven't yet found evidence that it adds power, the added heat i don't imagine helps anything. but we'll see

---

YES YOU AGREE!!!!! The 2012 does seem to run rich!!!! I swapped back to my stock jets, and my after market filter. The engine was breaking up with the stock filter.. I changed to my after market filter.. which actually has real filter material under the mesh, and a closed end. Man she runs like a freaking dream now.. I messed with the air/fuel mix.. and tossed in a new plug.. On flat ground I can cruise 55 no with no engine break up... still on hill i have to have her wide open to hold 45.. Im going to try on a nice straight flat road to try and do over 55.., maybe I can hit 60 now. I checked the new plug after riding about 10 miles.. and it looks exactly the same as when I put it in... so maybe I just need to put more miles to get a good reading.

I also cut off the tabs that held on the air injection... with nothing but a hacksaw blade in my bare hand.. and then a metal file. .. and a quick touch of with the satin paint I mixed previously for the tank and fenders. I know there is still a little stub of weld.. but after 45 min .. my hands were really tired.. so maybe I'll just use a dremel later and grind it down flat... but something about this bike makes me want to do everything by hand instead.. makes me feel like I really worked hard to do something.. lol

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps03f905d6.jpg


Oh that metal stuff behind the bike is a weight bench i was building (its not something hanging off the motor)

Hey guys. I know there were some new members to our DF posts asking questions about the bike. I just wanted to give an example of how the new 2012 looks with the basic modifications to make her ride better, and look pretty. I would invite you to compare to stock photo's to get an idea of how a few easy cosmetic changes can make this bike unique

2012 RTB_A

Current mods

1. Changed to a 35 tooth rear sprocket

2. Removed stripes and repainted the tank and fenders satin black.

3. Removed side mirrors (this is purely cosmetic and I would NOT recommend this because it effects safety)

4. Removed orange reflectors mounted to the sides of the forks (again this effects your safety and is just cosmetic)

5. Custom Rear fender to prevent the tire from rubbing (You can just shim the stock fender to prevent this issue)

6. Removed stock air filter and replaced with a better filtration cone and put mini filter on crank case hose.

7. Removed Air Injection unit and all components and removed mounting tabs.

8. Performance Plug slightly gaped over recommended specs for easy cold starts.

9. Replaced brake pads with genuine honda.

My next plans are to find some smoked lenses for the turn signals, and find some lower handle bar risers to make the bars sit lower.

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0732c49a.jpg


http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps36252137.jpg

Special thanks to everyone here for providing the information required to improve this bike, and special thanks to Barnone for going an extra mile to assist me with issues.

Bob, you said you replace the brake pads with Honda pads. You got a part number? Only ref I remember reading on here was somebody using Yamaha pads that worked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GonzoX

Bob, you said you replace the brake pads with Honda pads. You got a part number? Only ref I remember reading on here was somebody using Yamaha pads that worked.

---

For even better braking cross reference the honda pads with EBC and see if HH pads are available.I have had the best luck with those on all my bikes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by axa

I hear ya, i too bought into this cuz the low buy in cost.
but its all a personal preference and how you prioritize your time and money.
that said, you can always work on the looks if dont feel confident to work on the performance.
its not like all these tune ups will buy you much at all...
The sprocket change is like 90%, all the rest is quite marginal.

---

Well I accept my bike for what it is. An around town bike. With that I have no desire to spend money and time trying to make it into a highway capable machine. It's still a 250 no matter what you do and unlike many other states the hwy speed limit here is 75 and 80mhp and most cars do faster than that so there is no way in hell I will get on the hwy with this thing again. It would be suicide in my area.

But for around town driving I find the stock engine and gearing just fine. If I can get a few more HP out of it with a simple and cheap upgrade though, Im not above that. To me, realiability is more important.

Greetings! I'm in Arizona and have been researching Bobber conversions of Kaws and Suzukis for several weeks and finally decided I am not interested in a big bike and my wife is not happy with the idea of me doing highway riding.

I really like the DF and want to know the best method of buying one in Arizona. Is Scooter Depot my only/best means of getting a DF250?

Next, would someone please tell me what the difference is between the D250_RTB, and the "A" and "B" models?? I see scooter depot has the basic (blue) D250_RTB on sale but I do not want to get an old or stripped version and miss out on an improvement/upgrade everyone recommends which comes on the "A" or "B"

THANKS!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_tri

Greetings! I'm in Arizona and have been researching Bobber conversions of Kaws and Suzukis for several weeks and finally decided I am not interested in a big bike and my wife is not happy with the idea of me doing highway riding.

I really like the DF and want to know the best method of buying one in Arizona. Is Scooter Depot my only/best means of getting a DF250?

Next, would someone please tell me what the difference is between the D250_RTB, and the "A" and "B" models?? I see scooter depot has the basic (blue) D250_RTB on sale but I do not want to get an old or stripped version and miss out on an improvement/upgrade everyone recommends which comes on the "A" or "B"

THANKS!!!

---

van, is this your first bike? Im still a bike newb but I can tell you that a light bike is your best choice as a new bike.

I remember my brother letting me get on his big ass Harley and it weighed a ton to manhandle. I prefer something lighter and more forgiving so yes I think it's a good first choice. I payed $2500 or so for mine with TTL and it was the cheapest bike I could afford this side of a Royal Enfield (my second and next choice I think $6-7k). Others paid less for their DF.

The newer model has a better gas tank which is good. There are more than one model though, one with a front fender and one without and one with shocks in front and one with a springer front end. Wish I had the B model with the springer front end but I dont regret my2010 model at all.

No expert but with any vehicle I think a later model fixes many of the issues in the first model. Think "Ford Pinto" here LOL. But I could be wrong. Im sure others will chime in.

Bobthebobber,
Good post with all your mods.

2. Removed stripes and repainted the tank and fenders satin black.

I want to do your #4. How did you remove the stripes?
Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ben2go

For even better braking cross reference the honda pads with EBC and see if HH pads are available.I have had the best luck with those on all my bikes.

---

Good idea. I have the EBC HH pads on my W650 and Ural and they are an improvement over stock. Who has the Honda part number?

A sticky post like DanDaMan's post with all the common mods, parts numbers, web addresses, etc would be a great idea and big help to all us oldies and newbies. Keep us from reinventing the wheel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by axa

hows testing going?

---

axa,
Like your signature. I need to work on mine.
The 30 tooth is fine and is very driveable. I think any where from the 35 to the 30 is fine though.

I still get the breakup (cutting out) at 6500 or so RPM (65 MPH indicated, not verified with GPS) so maybe I will drop back to the 105 and see if that helps.

My memory is not the greatest but I don't remember having this cutting out problem on my 2010 DF. I had the 33 tooth, 42/105 jetting on it. Use to run 68 MPH verified with GPS. Maybe one of the 2010 guys will chime in?

My DF is fun to ride here in the mountains where the speed limits are 55 or less like your area. She draws more attention than the big expensive bikes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_tri

Greetings! I'm in Arizona and have been researching Bobber conversions of Kaws and Suzukis for several weeks and finally decided I am not interested in a big bike and my wife is not happy with the idea of me doing highway riding.

I really like the DF and want to know the best method of buying one in Arizona. Is Scooter Depot my only/best means of getting a DF250?

Next, would someone please tell me what the difference is between the D250_RTB, and the "A" and "B" models?? I see scooter depot has the basic (blue) D250_RTB on sale but I do not want to get an old or stripped version and miss out on an improvement/upgrade everyone recommends which comes on the "A" or "B"

THANKS!!!

---

I and some others here have had good support buying from Chad at http://www.extremescooters.biz/gas-p...-choppers.aspx

Look at the photos of the A and B and you will see the differences. Add $200 freight to the price.

I got the A model because I like a front fender and the conventional front forks but either is fine. I had the 2010 but would recommend the newer A or B because of the improved gas tank but others will disagree.

But remember you are pretty much on your own with these drop ship bikes.

NOT a freeway flyer!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barnone

Bobthebobber,
Good post with all your mods.

2. Removed stripes and repainted the tank and fenders satin black.

I want to do your #4. How did you remove the stripes?
Thanks

---

you must have bought this gloss finish, cuz if you had the matte, the stripes probably would be peeling themselves off by now, mine were. yep the only difference with matte and gloss is a clear coat over those stripes. therefore if u want them off you'll need to do some sanding on the gloss.

JFYI if your intimidated with painting, just using the ball cans is very easy and comes out very nice. just be sure to use a quality paint. that's what I did, I couldn't be bothered breaking out the hplv and all that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barnone

I and some others here have had good support buying from Chad at http://www.extremescooters.biz/gas-p...-choppers.aspx

..................... But remember you are pretty much on your own with these drop ship bikes.

NOT a freeway flyer!!!

---

Thanks Gonzo and Barnone,
I very much appreciate the referral for the distributor.
I am corresponding with a local guy who has a 2010 DF, but it's been stored outside and he rebuilt the carb himself after 2000 miles.

I'm concerned about your "own your own" with these bikes especially since this will be my first bike and I don't even know anyone else who works on bikes. Therefore ... should I stay away from DFs?
VT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_tri

Thanks Gonzo and Barnone,
I very much appreciate the referral for the distributor.
I am corresponding with a local guy who has a 2010 DF, but it's been stored outside and he rebuilt the carb himself after 2000 miles.

I'm concerned about your "own your own" with these bikes especially since this will be my first bike and I don't even know anyone else who works on bikes. Therefore ... should I stay away from DFs?
VT

---

in your case extremescooters is more like the drop shipper/dealer. The importer/distributor is still sunny motors as is the warranter as well.
Anyway you are not entirely on your own. I had a conversation with Chad at extreme and he explained the warranty as being if there is something thats broke out the box, they will make it right. Like a broken light or something minor.
If it's the engine that has a problem, it has a certain warranty if you do the work yourself, and double the length if an actual mechanic does.
Truth is I'd hope it didn't get to that point, and Chad still needs to go through sunny which is a pita, but bikes having this level trouble are few and far between.
I think there was only one recorded problem like this on this entire thread, and who knows, that guy could have been a flake for all we know.
Pay with credit card and there is always a layer of consumer protection that it brings.

Id say stay away from a 2010, and away from any Chinese bike that had been stored outside. Unless it was at a deep discount and your cash strapped. I wouldn't look at it unless i could save a grand... And I would STILL pay with a credit card.
Personally id rather take a chance with a new DF than one than any sort of local one that is stored outside, new or used.
Its a good bet the elements will eventually ruin these bikes, but better on Chinese quality control is actually a pretty good gamble comparatively.

But if you really want one, go for it, theres a bunch of us here to help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_tri

Thanks Gonzo and Barnone,
I very much appreciate the referral for the distributor.
I am corresponding with a local guy who has a 2010 DF, but it's been stored outside and he rebuilt the carb himself after 2000 miles.

I'm concerned about your "own your own" with these bikes especially since this will be my first bike and I don't even know anyone else who works on bikes. Therefore ... should I stay away from DFs?
VT

---

VT,
Don't get me wrong because I really like the DF but IMHO You really do need to have some experience working on motorcycles because the DF is going to come in a crate and you need to assemble it. Not a big deal if you are a wrenching type person or have a friend who has the experience.

Unfortunately most shops will not work on Chinese bikes just like they didn't want to work on Japanese vehicles years ago.

I think you should buy a used small Japanese bike from a good dealer after you take the basic motorcycle rider training if you haven't done that already. Then after you get some experience you can sell it and get a DF.

My 2 cents worth...

The stripes were easy to get off because the bike was flat.. used a hair dryer and heated them up. @barnone if you have the gloss send me a PM and i'll explain how to get them off.. it will just require a lot more work and a total repaint.

@axa something weird happened to the PM's you sent me. They were all weird html and symbols.. I think maybe it bugged out. could you resend?


The pads were new-old stock from a honda shop that closed in RI. I just grabbed a bunch and found some that fit. They don't fit perfect but they work much better than stock. I'll try and get a # on them but they were opened without a box (I only found pads to fit the front) i also tried some pads that were for a honda scooter for the rear but they did not fit.

I took the bike out today on a road with a 55mph limit. I was able to cruise 50 and 55 indicated.. at 50 ish the motor is not reving up all that high, and it feels like there is a ton left in her... at 55 about the same although shes trying a little harder... but it still feels like I have 20 mph left... then I just hammered it and on the flat got just about 60 indicated with no engine break up or sputter... and at this point the motor was so loud that it was hurting my ears and she was reving up so much that it seemed like the motor might explode lol. Anyway on incline i was not able to maintain the 55.. but on the flat I could with a some effort. Im still running the closed ended filter, and ill try the stock one again when I have a chance. Its very funny how the difference between 50-55 and 55-60 is so large... i swear at 50-55 it purs and feels like I have enough throttle left to do 70... but just 5mph more indicated and that motor wants to throw a piston up into my crotch.. I'm thinking that maybe the 30tooth would get me to where I need to be... which is 55 mph roads without having to max it out (these are not highway roads) but already it's tough on any incline so I might just leave it be..

My damn ears are still ringing.. maybe I should wear a full face helmet if Im going to try and do anymore than 55 lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barnone

VT,
Don't get me wrong because I really like the DF but IMHO You really do need to have some experience working on motorcycles because the DF is going to come in a crate and you need to assemble it. Not a big deal if you are a wrenching type person or have a friend who has the experience.

---

Thanks BN, Extreme Scooters advised me today they would ship me the DF completely assembled at no charge if I ordered over the phone vs placing the order on-line. If I placed the order on-line the bike would arrive assembled with the exception of the front end and bars. That was offered without any negotiating ... is there any more wiggle room on price too? R, VT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_tri

Thanks BN, Extreme Scooters advised me today they would ship me the DF completely assembled at no charge if I ordered over the phone vs placing the order on-line. If I placed the order on-line the bike would arrive assembled with the exception of the front end and bars. That was offered without any negotiating ... is there any more wiggle room on price too? R, VT

---

Actually the bike comes assembled like this photo shows.
Attachment 13131
You have to install the handle bars , forward controls, add acid, charge, and install the battery, etc all which are no big deal if you have worked on motorcycles.

Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Do you have a motorcycle endorsement on your drivers license?
I do not know anything about wiggle room on the price. Do what ever you please.

I've given you my two cents worth. Good luck.