Barnone: how is the paint and plating holding up on your DF? You live on the gulf and spend a lot of time down at the beach on your bike, any observations on how well the chrome and all is holding up in your environment?
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Barnone: how is the paint and plating holding up on your DF? You live on the gulf and spend a lot of time down at the beach on your bike, any observations on how well the chrome and all is holding up in your environment?
redrover,
I live in town away from the beach but do spend some time at our beach cottage and ride the bike there if it works out that i don't need my truck.
The paint and plating is holding up fine on my but I keep it in my shop along with my other bikes. A friend of mine has a Honda Metropolitan scooter that he keeps at his condo on the Gulf when he is here in FL and it get a lot of surface rust on it from the salt air. He keeps it in my shop when he is gone to VA.
When we lived on the beach we had rust issue with our cars, motorcycles, bicycles, etc. It's the price you pay for living on the beach. We will probably move back there next year and sell our house in town.
Thanks for the insight, Barnone; I was curious as to how well your bike was doing, compared to how much trouble Aboshi had with his chrome and paint in such a short time. I wondered if the plating on the DF was just that bad, or if his seaside environment was really doing a number on is bike super quick. I live in northern Texas, often humid, but not like living on the Gulf, no sea spray for sure.
My experience with the Chinese plating quality so far is that it is at least as good as most of the work the Japanese manufacturers did in the 60's, which may not be a particularly high mark, still...:lol8:
Barnone i was a special case, and I have the helmet to prove it, the local dealer was called and it was cleared through themQuote:
Originally Posted by barnone
Barnone here's what I can see when comparing this bike the Heist... aside from the obvious like the seats.
What is the DF frame made of? The Heist is 1020 DOM and the welds are super clean.
The wheels are far nicer on the heist. They have more spokes on each wheel. They're also grade 8 chrome. The wheels don't come thru well in pictures but if you see a Heist in real life you'll definitely notice the wheels.
The forward controls also look way nicer on the heist. Very heavy duty with internal bearings.
The disc brakes are bigger on the Heist.
The electrics can on the Heist is all metal without any overflow tubes draining into it.
The covers on the engine all have bolts rather than screws.
The stock exhaust on the heist is indeed EPA certified and it's quiet as a scooter. The chrome is quality, and it weighs a ton. The DF pipe looks, well, almost home made.
Again man, I don't mean any of this as a personal attack. I just wanted to point out that the heist has a lot more going on than you may have noticed. The extra $$ is not just for the dealer handholding.
Also, I wanted to thank you for sharing all your knowledge! Your pics and write ups on the tech stuff are awesome!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/...78b5832641.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/...1b6f96ebcd.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/...c6eea32c16.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/...48a6cc40_b.jpg
http://www.75vn.com/ad2/917/26291418...ubba%20004.jpg
I am still working on those details (on Paper) but have a good deal in the process. I plan to open up a shop eventually, but to start slow in the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by barnone
ktmracer,
Some good points on the Heist vs DF.
I think the DF is a more old school bobber and the Heist is chromed up to appeal to a younger rider.
The frame on the DF seems to be beefier that the Heist.
There is a new Heist dealer here that I will visit with my DF so I can compare the two bikes as soon as he gets a bike in stock.
I think the seat on the DF is going to be much better on the long ride. The DF seat's preload can be adjusted.
If the wheel chrome is like the greatly discolored muffler and head pipe on the Heist in the Cycle World article then you might be disappointed. The muffler seems to be the first thing that gets chopped or replace anyway. Gardo chopped his muffler so it looks like the DF can.
The forward controls on the DF have grease fittings which is nice. Don't now about the Heist.
I don't know what you mean about the screws in the engine, mine has bolts. See photo below.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...h/IMG_0751.jpg
I think the DF engine looks nicer being blacked out.
Also I put a small filter to eliminate the hose going to the fake oil tank. It cleans up the engine by eliminating some hose.
Pictures of the speedometer on the Heist appears to be a KM odometer. I don't believe it has a trip odometer like the DF but I could be wrong.
Anyway, once I see a Heist in person I will be able to make a better comparison. Probably not that much different in the two bikes. Nit picking. Still both China bikes.
I was banned from the CCW forum because I pointed out they were misleading the public by claiming it was a 250cc engine instead 229cc.
They still advertise it as a 250cc engine.
Yeah the DF does look old school cool. I do hope you get the chance to check out a Heist, I think you'll be surprised. The chrome is nothing like that CW test bike. I have over 500 miles on the stock exhaust and it's perfect.
To be fair... here's what I Don't like about the Heist:
Haha! Yeah the stock speedo is KMH. Really screwed me up at first! I swapped mine out for a plain black MPH.
The hand controls/switches feel cheap and plasticy.
The seat and springs are adjustable, but I never found the sweet spot. I just recently swapped out both and it's much better.
Also, the taillight and headlight are plastic on the Heist. The headlight doesn't bug me too much, but the taillight didn't last a week. I kicked it getting off. Then the lens popped off in traffic and a car ran it over. Amazing how that plastic POS is DOT and the stainless/glass piece I have now is not.
Okay sir, my eyes are tired, my points are made...
I think DicE magazine says it best:
F@%K this, Let's ride!
New speedo:
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/...t/_DSC6293.jpg
West Eagle Seat and Choppershox:
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/...t/_DSC6294.jpg
Having been up close and personal with both bikes the DF has a slightly larger frame and the seat is indeed wider, hollow wire frame seat with a rubber pad covering it. the Heist has a leather seat with, what i had laughably called padding, on a steel seat pan. ( Needs a lip in the rear to keep you on the Bike.
All in all I think the DF has a more Rat bike look to it, just more mean, and the Heist is cleaner all the way around, like the weekend badboy LoL. I like the drag pipe look but my Pipe still has the Cat, which I'm still not sure if the DF is just a straight pipe.
The forward controls on the DF slide in and bolt on while the forward controls are fitted to the bike with double bearing mount. No need for grease fittings
then the things like the jets are bigger on a stock heist 98 vs the Df with the 88, the forward sprocket is 15T on the Heist, and can fit a 16 maybe larger, and the DF has a 13T stock that might be able to be upgraded to a 14 with some tinkering if I remember correctly Barnone.
There are some things that i loved on the DF250 and a lot on the Heist. Riding both I could feel the difference in the Heist vs. the DF and I liked the ride of the Heist better. Thats my opinion on it.
In truth we know that the heist can be registered without issue in all 50 states and is legal to be in the US, the Df is advertised as 49 states but in reality it cannot be tagged in CA or NJ. there is still questions about NY and PA (contact your local DMV) this though has no bearing on the ride quality or how it was manufactured.
yes the DF is cheaper but you wait on the drop ship 7 -15 days another 5 - 10 days on the MSO, as long as everything works out the way its supposed to. Then its the sweating it out at DMV.
now the Heist is 1000 dollars more expensive, but when I bought mine it was 7 days from when I purchasing it, then insuring it, to working on the bike, having it delivered, and getting her tagged. there is a growing dealer support and readily available parts and some reputable folks in the industry backing the Heist.
yes both bikes are manufactured in China, and CCW partnered with Rhon, to manufacture their bikes. Scotty and his US team oversee everything on these bikes. there is still question as to the true manufacture of the DF but thats politics and i wont start playing that game.
Now we can play the semantics but really it will start to be a Victory vs. HD its about the ride. and once you get it and make it legal who cares. Lets go ride and have a good time :riding:
Vince, since I have been on this site you have been nothing but a great source of info and help as has a lot of other folks. i cannot thank you enough with all the words of insight and shared knowledge.
I love all the pictures and daily reports on the Bike and your adventures with it. you make me want to retire in your fashion. You have some awesome toys.:thumbsup:
I didn't know that the Heist had a plastic headlight and tail light.
The DF comes with a 520 chain like the original cloned Honda engine so the front sprocket is larger than the smaller 420 or 428 chain on the Heist.
Does the stock odometer have a trip meter?
I'll hit that local Heist dealer in a few dates and report my findings.
Meh the digi cam mic sucks, the chain on the Heist is really a 530 and it does not have a trip meter. I'll be changing the speedo anyway and maybe add a tack to it as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by barnone
got my new taillight BTW and mirrors
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...10412-2152.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...10412-2155.jpg
wow, I really like the chain guard? Did that come stock?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kb96gt
Gardo,
You sure about that chain size on the Heist?
I like that early Ford looking tail light.
Kb96gt,
I looked but could not find a rear on photo of your tail light. Is it like Gardo's new one?
I like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BLACK...Q5fAccessories
A couple questions for the Heist owners. Th DF EPA label and owner's manual states 40 PSI front and rear which seems like a high value to me. What does the Heist manual recommend?
The DF owner's manual states intake set at .06mm and exhaust at .08mm. What does the Heist manual state?
Some instructions for valve adjustment at http://hondacg125.awardspace.com/valve_clearance.htm
Thanks
Hey Barnone, glad to hear the DF is running good. Still waiting on the weather up here. Will be mid 40s tomorrow but I will need to go for a small ride reguardless. The tires on the Heist also say 40psi F&R. I dont remember right off the top of my head for valves, Pit readjust them to .002 and .004 if I remember correctly, book believes also says the same but someone will have to confirm that with me. Enjoy the nice weather and safe riding.
Oh and Gardo like the tail light, saw it and debated it a bit, but I have a full blown custom in my head that I need to get working on. Safe riding.Quote:
Originally Posted by barnone
thats the one thats on my bike but stainless. All metal housing real red glass and cork gaskets. Bright as hell and just to awesome for words. Just got in from PIT and I am road wearyQuote:
Originally Posted by barnone
The front and rear are supposed to be 30PSI the chinglish manual is garbage, the guys in PIT have torn the Heist apart and are rewriting it, proper like
How's the arse Gardo?! lol.
That's awesome Pit's rewriting the manual! I do like the wiring charts in the one that came with the bike, come in pretty handy. The rest of it.... not so much.
Taillights:
http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/index....duct_list&c=42
Lowbrow is the pace for stuff like taillights, bars, seats, fenders etc. Quality parts, good prices, fast shipping and generally all around awesome people.
Check the Heist thread, I'll put a couple pics up there.
Kevin,
Nice site for goodies. Lots of taillight options with good prices. Gotta measure and see if this bag from them will fit my DF.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...g-rigid-so.jpg
Just got back from a visit to the Heist dealer at Fort Myers Beach. He just started handling the Heist. The salesman said the engine was made by Honda.:rolleyes1:
The forward controls are about the same as far as I can see.
The frame on the DF is larger diameter tubing.
The seat on the DF is much superior to the seat on the Heist.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x.../IMG_07542.jpg
DF speedometer/odometer
The odometer on the Heist is KM while the DF speedometer/odometer is pure MPH/miles.
DF has a trip odometer.
The chain on the Heist is not a 530 but a 420 or 428.
Th Heist does have more spokes per wheel but the DF has plenty.
The Heist does have a larger diameter front disk.
The Heist has a much quieter muffler which is nice.
After comparing the two bikes and prices, the owner of the shop said he would look into getting the DF to add to his line of bikes. He said he would retail the bikes at the same price since they are so similar but felt the DF would appeal to the old school riders while the Heist would attract the younger rider.
I did not get a test ride because he does not allow test rides but he does rent 50cc scooters so go figure. Anyway, IMHO there does not appear to be much difference one way or the other between the two bike. Some pluses for the Heist and some pluses for the DF. Both China bikes.
just ordered one. question is where do you oreder main jets & a rear sprocket. Barnone do you think your new sprock (33 tooth I believe) is to much? thanks. reporon.
reporon:
I have the sprocket and jet you need brand new in the packages, I didn't get a chance to put them on because the DF I got was muffed up and I'm sending it back.
If you want I can send them to you for $37 shipped
I have the 35T sprocket and 100 main jet
Aboshi,
Congrats on getting a Heist on order and too bad the DF didn't work out but that's water under the bridge.
reporon,Quote:
Originally Posted by reporon
Congrats on getting a DF on order.
The 33T might be too high a ratio and Aboshi's 35T is probably better.
Aboshi's offer sounds like a good deal to me. I got my sprockets at http://www.oldbikebarn.com/Motorcycl...?search=JTR279 and the main jets at http://www.jetsrus.com/
Never could find a pilot jet so just put a washer under the needle and adjusted the idle screw according to this write up for mid range improvements.
http://hondacg125.awardspace.com/idl...ixture%20Screw
thanks for the help men. this site is great.
Yeah, this site is one of the best for China bikes. Fun to read about the foreigner's experiences in China plus lots of knowledge here.Quote:
Originally Posted by reporon
Take a look at the following.
"Tuning manual for a PZ26 carb ( PZ30 on the DF250RTB/Heist looks similar except for 30mm instead of 26mm size) is located at
http://walbro.com/brochurefiles/3368...g%20Manual.pdf
thanks to jape. "
barnone:
I havn't put a heist on order because I think I am just gonna snatch up a 77 yamaha XS650 or a 2000 harley sportster 883
I just cant decide because I have way too many options to build a bobber lol, but if I wind up going the lazy rout I'll get the heist. They really do need a bigger motor though =(
Aboshi,
Either the XS650 or Harley would make a good base for a bobber and you would have a decent motor to start with. I'm am still looking for more motor for my DF.
Here another PZ carb tuning paper.
http://walbro.com/brochurefiles/3368...nual.pdftuning