Here is a diagram on how it works.
http://www.dansmc.com/starter_clutch2.jpg
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Here is a diagram on how it works.
http://www.dansmc.com/starter_clutch2.jpg
There is a clutch on the back side of the charge rotor that is made up of 3 rollers with pins and springs pushing them out. Are you talking about the flywheel as being the charge rotor? Forgive my lack of tech. Also another question.. when turning the crankshaft bolt which is the proper way to turn it, clockwise or counterclockwise?
O.K. I get it, your talking about the overrunning clutch assembly as shown on the DF parts list diagrams. I did not think about that. Maybe it is not engaging as it should. I will check that.
Still wondering though, should the engine be turning clockwise or counterclockwise.I do not want to mess anything up when going TDC.
retracted.
counterclockwiseQuote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon
cool thanks Bar. I was pretty sure of that..but ya know when you go knee deep into stuff and then your kids come by and start asking a million questions, sometimes you get distracted.
Most bikes don't have fly wheels like a car.The charge rotor is the part with the big magnets,but I see you have it all figured out. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon
Just for a couple of references would anyone know where I could find a replacment engine if needed? Add to that a how to on doing the charge rotor. I am pretty much on my own with this thing except for all the input that y'all give..which is greatly appreciated. But..I am looking at the cost of everything involved. Options are always a good thing ya know.
Basically my wife asked me what a new motor would cost seeing as how this one has over 11,000 miles on it. I know they do not last forever. Thanks.
Unbolt the charge rotor and the starter clutch is bolted to the back of it.The big gear behind it free wheels on the crankshaft.You will need to hold the engine still to remove the charger rotor bolt.I used a chain wrench.Some put the bike in gear and hold the rear brake pedal down.The bolt goes back in with red loctite and roughly 80lbs of torque.Make sure the bolt hole,bolt,and charge rotor hole is clean and dry.They can spin on the shaft.Mine did and it welded the gear to the crankshaft.I had to use a gear puller to take it off.This is on my GS500 when it had an all stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...f/100_0125.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...f/100_0130.jpg
wow, looks relativley simple enough. i will give it a shot. Thanks. I am not a motorcycle mechanic, I have more experience with small block chevy's. but I am mechanically inclined.
You're welcome.If you've been inside a SB Chev,this shouldn't be to hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ll=1#post69259Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon
come on bro keep up on ur feeds...:mikey:
ill bet thats the best deal you will find, price-wise, as well u get a kick start to boot...
i almost envy u...
but seriously, just google cg250, or 167fmm engine and you will start to find all sorts of stuff...
if you do indeed find that starter clutch the problem , let me know and ill send u a link if this is it:
but try to find the exact problem first before doing anything, because then you will most likely be able to fix it, or find someone who can fix it, or in the worst and rare case be sure u actually need a new engine...
bowtie if engine spins , spray in carb cleaner , if it fires its your jets
5 min to pull n clean
in my news , built oversized fender brackets to accomidate larger front tire , making speedo near dead accurate , runs 60 into a headwind , had it HOLDING 75 on way to work this morning (drafting wind at my back flat roads)
did tighten down intake valve , but axa's problem has me wanting to loosen it again :p
bit over 20 in 1st ,about 40 I second , 55ishin 3rd , 65 in 4th , 5th to near75 with engine turning fast but not screaming , I am 165 lb's
Well, my compression tester came in today. Does any one know the actual compression range for this engine? I don't need the compression ratio but the actual compression in pounds.
funny you ask, i think ur as unlikely to get an accurate compression range as you are to get an actual compression ratio... I firmly believe none of which was every actually measured, but rather passed down from the original honda cg design and inherited from one poor translation to another...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill
So ive finally got around to looking into decking the DF head for the increased compression ratio...
Just received a graduated cylinder in the mail and ill first measure the ACTUAL compression ratio of these things...
That word actual cant be stressed enough, cuz if you look hard enough you will find ratios of 8.7 to 9.5, and everything in between...
This will then give me an of how much to shave off the new head.
Unfortunately I had to get rid of my home mill, it was just too small and inadequate, and since im now banned from our shop at work thanks to OSHA, im going to have to do this on my home lathe...
Set up the old trashed head for a practice run
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M...it?usp=sharing
I dont think anyone would bother decking a cylinder head on the lathe, balancing it alone is a bitch. But here i am, in practice im sure it can be done effectively.
These engines aren't as easy to come by as replacements as they used to be back in the mid-2000s (i.e. ebay, etc). One suggestion is to look at your local Craigslist since you live in a major metropolitan area, and put in search terms like Apollo, Apollo 250, Zongshen, Zongshen 250, etc. There seem to always be people asking low prices on Chinese dirt bikes. Most enduros come in 200cc, but many, if not most, of the full-size pure dirt bikes, such as the fairly common Apollos, come in 250cc size (ok, 223cc or 229cc). Apollo use Zongshen engines, and many ignorant bike owners list 'branded' bikes, like Apollos, as 'Zongshen' because that is what the engine states. Either way, it is a good place to start to look because you can generally still part out the rest of the bike, or sell the rolling chassis while keeping the engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon
I thought that would be the case. I'll check mine soon using the same procedure you use on your stock head and at least we'll have a sample of 2. Let me know how you do it when you do yours? Don't know if I should hand turn it for max at TDC or just turn the starter and get a couple of cycles.Quote:
Originally Posted by axa
On another note, I mentioned that a PU truck cut a left corner short and put me down. I just noticed that the lower bar clamp was loose from the triple tree, (springer version) The fall must have broken the head off of the mounting bolt. I've cobbled it back together using one of the cap bolts for the top clamp. Problem is that the lower clamp bolt is a special deal that isn't listed in the parts book. Anybody out there know how to find one?
Im not actually looking to measuring the compression, just the ratio. Unless i find it a problem anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill
you will need to turn it over with the starter a few times to build up pressure to peak...
i dont think you can do that by hand, though might be able to do it by kick if we had one...
anyway, i bet google can tell you all you need to know about that
and though i probably should have measured the actual ratio on a new head first, i did the practice cylinder head decking removing .025.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M...it?usp=sharing
i have video of it i might upload if anyone is into machine porn like me...
in theory this would bring the ratio up to somewhere around 9.7, depending what ratio you think you are starting with.
next i will get some play-do and do an interference test...
I will also back cut the valves, as well as port the new head.
i know ive said in the past I didn't believe there would be much to gain in doing this on a 167fmm, but after closely looking at the head in hand, there are some notable defects....
it might be hard to see but, this lip behind the intake valve seat. This is considered a bottle neck and high air flow location, where all the intake air is crammed into a small port before getting into the chamber, in theory it needs to transition better than this.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M...it?usp=sharing
i bet every head is different though.
I'm impressed with the lathe work! I've always been interested in machine and model making. I'm fixin to retire soon and I'm gonna see if I can find a small metal fab shop and do grunt work so I can learn welding and metal work and with luck, machine work.
Go for it, getting paid to learn can be very beneficial if u can swing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill
I thought about this when I started but you are right, you need to be otherwise retired to be able to give the time to land a decent position.
Therefore the other choice being paying a school, but living so close to NYC i could find nothing other than 15 hours of adult education welding in the evening, all the metal shop schooling has gone from this area. I didn't do it but took that money to buy my first welder.
In the end, doing is the most effective way to learn regardless, just need the will.
its a 2 valve pushrod, everything it has is between 2500-5000 rpm , if u drag out more rpms great 4 u beating the soft springs I was givin , if u don't here your valves clicking away , either you geared to low or to tight
and tight = engine death
redline all u want , valve float from pushrod engines stops any poss damage
unless valves to tight ---
and roadkill , that "miss" sounds like u need a valve, like axa but not blown cylinder like him
adjust valves NOW
Thanks! I started the tune over. Valves to .002 and .004, new irrudium plug gapped to .028, raised jet needle (Mikuni carb) to top position, adjusted fuel/air. She runs great now with a slight miss if I run at low rpm for a while. I think that the carb might be a tad rich. I would like to check the compression both cold and warm, but can't find any info on compression range in PSI.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDaMan
Just did a quick search and found that depending on the cam setup, compression in psi should be between 15-20 times the compression ratio. Interesting for me but not much help as I still don't have a baseline to tell if a valve is causing problems or an exact compression ratio. If I go with 9.02 then I'm looking at 135-180psi on a good engine.
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. If I have a bad valve, it will be way lower than this range or won't hold pressure very long and I can look at as a very rough leak-down test
As to gearing and RPM. I date back to when 6K was very high RPM and torque was king. I still feel like only Dremmel tools and turbines should turn 12K. Remember when the powerband for deisels was 1750 to 2150 RPM? I'm running stock front sprocket and 35T rear.
My GS is 9.5:1 and 175psi is what it puts out when warm.A compression check needs to be done on a warm engine.Any problems that maybe there when running, can go away when the engine cools and the metal tightens back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill
Thanks for the input. My career has been electronic mfg and we were required per mil spec to test over temp. Product engineer on one of the HARM missle sections and several "Death Toys" that I can't talk about.Quote:
Originally Posted by ben2go
ENGINE COMPRESSION TESTINGQuote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill
http://www.dansmc.com/compression_test.htm
well turns ut my problem WAS the Starter clutch assembly. removal was realaively easy.Used a larger strap type oil filter tool to hold the drum, while using an impact gun to take the bolt loose. the allen head bolts were easy enough to break free. then a large puller to pull the drumm free of the shaft. once free everything else came free easily.
Attachment 15515
bearings were all over the place, and race was bent pretty bad.
Attachment 15516
located a new part online here.
http://www.motopartsmax.com/index.ph...roducts_id/666. Actually bought it off ebay, same item,looks to be from the same place.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281265680287...84.m1497.l2649
all dimensions and toothe count added up.
Just waiting for it to show up so i can reinstall. Now I will not know if the assembly comes with a new 57 tooth gear or not, just have to wait and see. aside from that.. it is just a waiting game, and i will keep everyone posted.Thanks for everyones input. I must say, that with me having what seems like the most mileage on this bike, and for what has or has not gone wrong, i think I made a pretty sound investment thus far. Plus I hope I am asisting everyone who may have a near similar issue with their bike at one time or another.It is nothing wrong with the bike itself as far as i can see, just wear and tear. 11,000 plus miles and hopefull soon to be counting.
Nice riding today in the mountains of Western North Carolina.
Took a run up to the Dragon.
Attachment 15517
At the Cheoah Dam (Fugitive movie)
Attachment 15518
At the Cade's Cove exit.
Beautiful day.
Yesterday I rode the Ural to a Brit bike rally in Georgia.
Good news.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtiewagon