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Re: Starter motor brushes
so do you have a hiest or a DF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heist222
I need new sprockets( suggestions for good torque and speed? I am thinking 13/35).
im about 160 and IMHO I would get (and have) the lowest ratio available (without replacing both sprockets and possibly grinding the front sprocket cover), 2.3. DF stock front 13, 30 rear which is the smallest available.
The bike doesn't have much power , but it is certainly possible to get on a long strait or decline where even perhaps with both you and ur chick on the bike might be be held back by anything less.
I bought a 35 because everyone and their mother said that was the best, put a few hundred miles on it, consistently riding at the 7-7500rpm redline, which if i recall is a modest 55 - 60 mph at that ratio (real not 10% overzealous stock DF speedometer) and then went to 30 and glad i did.
At my weight with a full backpack, full face helmet and some leather, Im still constantly near the red line.
The only argument i hear against a lower ratio is that it takes longer to get through (each/all) gear(s).
And if your heavy its arguable that you will have less of top possible speed so a higher ratio will better distribute through the range, but i just dont put much stock in that argument.
At top speeds the wind resistance is 50% of your engine output, an actual greater factor than say a 30% heaver load.
A higher ratio just gets you to a lower speed faster, so it makes no sense to me.
Now if your on the F1 circuit and it matters exactly where your shift points are then by all means limit your top speed with a higher ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heist222
-I need new jets
You don't state which jets and for what purpose.
Pilots?
if replacing a clogged one, you need a new 40, you could get away with 42 or perhaps 45.
If you have reason to think you need a different size, here is everything you'll ever need
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401030124735...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
you wont use most of them but look at the price, most people pay more for a single jet.
These are shipped from one of the most famous counterfeiting locations in china, but i measured these with a pin gauge set and they were remarkably accurate, I cant speak for hole roundness but overall throughput are accurate. I don think it matters in our use.
main?
m5-.08 is what you want.
105 is stock, if replacing a clog.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor-M...5WX~so&vxp=mtr
again more than you need, and i cant vouch for this seller but you get the idea.
Id be careful about re-jetting a nicely running engine if you have no fair reason to.
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Re: Starter motor brushes
heist222,
Sounds like you have a DF250RTB-B, right?
Why does it need an overhaul?
Why does it need new jets? The 2012 DFs seem to be jetted just fine. The 2010 DFs needed rejetting.
As mentioned by axa, the DF is a low powered bike and there is not a lot of power to be gained by modifying the engine and probably a lot to lose in reliability. Remember it started out as a CG125 125cc and is now a 229cc. If you are not satisfied with a top speed of about 55 MPH (GPS) then it is the wrong bike for you.
I have a tack on my DF and never run it over 5k RPM.
The stock front sprocket is as large as possible without grinding on the engine case.
I'm running a 35 tooth rear and have tried the 30 but it seemed too high for the riding I do in the mountains of Western North Carolina. Try one or the other to see what fits you style of riding. No big deal to change anyway. Choices are 30,32,33,35,38,etc :icon10:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...rockets+jtr279
Riding two up is not something I would do on a DF without fitting a proper rear seat and passenger pegs. You also need some kind of chain guard on your bike. That chain could do some damage to your GF's foot. Very dangerous to ride two up on a stock DF.
BTW, take all recommendations with a grain of salt. What works for me might work for you.
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Re: Starter motor brushes
hey guys, sad news, my bike I think died today. Was in the process of pulling out of a driveway from work, put her into first, large dathunk ,stalled, hard to restart, got her going and no power at all, stalled again, and would not start ... had to trailer her home. Thinking by the sound something inside let go. Just got home.. haven't done anything yet.. but pretty sure she is done motor wise. 18,583 miles on her. Need some input on where to obtain a possible replacement motor, or steered into that direction. Figure not worth rebuiling out of not being able to aquire the parts. So if you have some ideas , shoot them this way. Hangin a broken heart tonite.
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Re: Starter motor brushes
That sucks, Man. Hope you can find a replacement. Would any of those 250cc motors on ebay work? I see they are OHC instead of pushrod. Kind of pricey with shipping....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250cc-Zongsh...mjB672T9ilKEMg
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That does suck. Might be worth taking it apart to see what failed.
Send this guy a request for a price on a CG250 engine. "We have Air Cooled CG250 in stock"
http://www.chinese-parts-canada.com/new_motors.html
His prices use to be reasonable. He had a location in the US to avoid customs problem.
I sent off a request for a Lifan CG250 motor from China. Need to make sure it is EPA approved.
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yeah probably will open it up just to see, I would like to know for sure, and I will ask this guy.Thanks Bar.
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just wonder if the motor in the 2012 DF250 RTC is the same motor. looking at this for a quick fix right now..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Dongfang-...xWXiJS&vxp=mtr
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Re: Starter motor brushes
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtiewagon
yeah probably will open it up just to see, I would like to know for sure, and I will ask this guy.Thanks Bar.
woh woh, slow down guys! just jumping and looking into entire engines is a bit hasty. i know the feeling but relax.
the fact that you got it going after you heard the noise, Occam's razor and my intimate knowledge about a 167fmm's combustion environment tells me that there is less of a chance that there is bad damage.
my 2000 mile diagnosis says you have a blow head gasket.
that can be noticed if trying to start it, and you see or feel gush of air somewhere between the head and cylinder body.
been there done this, i carry a spare as standard procedure...
6$ on ebay.
of course its hard to diagnose over the internet so:
pull off the head cover.
pull off the head. 4 bolts.
if im right you will see a torn up gasket.
Now if there isn't any damage to the mating surface place in the new one.
if it were me id resurface and use nothing, but you might want to dab a bit of rtv silicone around the same places it was used when you pull it off.
put it back, i think 22 ft lb for the head bolts. 60 in pb for the head cover.
you will likely need to adjust the valve clearance after removing the head.
i use .04 in, .06 out.
there... bikes running again for 6$
if you had open it up and your head looks like this:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-...1NvM1ZPOThlOFU
or if your piston looks like this:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-...nd1MlV2b0ZuTU0
then that's a different story, but you would not have gotten its started again if it had...
you can check for this sort of damage by taking out the spark plug and seeing if it looks like this:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-...3BNZDBCY0hKNUU
if it does unfortunately the other damage is fairly likely.
take pictures
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtiewagon
Looks to be the same from here but I would take axa's advice and at least pull the head.
EDIT
I looked closer and it has 250 cm3 stamped on the cylinder even though it is stamped a 167fmm on the block.
Our DF motor is a 167fmm and is 229 cm3.
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtiewagon
its not. doesn't mean it wont fit, just means there's no guarantee it will.
fwiw the original is a loncin 167fmm
so hurry up and pull that head already...
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Re: Starter motor brushes
I am just researching right now, and no she did not start back after the second stall. again, all input is great. I WILL check what you suggest, for sure. But that initial thunk I got felt like something broke. but yeah, I plan on looking it over before I buy anything. It just is not an easy deal to find stuff for this bike like around the corner, so i want to get as much of a start as I can if I need to purchase a motor. I need this back and running fast.It is my ticket to freedom ( actually my ride to work, minus the grumpy but loving wife taking me everyday). If ya know what I mean. Then i got to have my mother-in-law pick me up.. oh man am I in a cluster right now. deep breathe.. count to ten.. relax.
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
axa
Holly cow!!!
How you did that man!? :eek2:
But guys... if you allow me... As Axa wrote, and I would agree with him, it is really small chance that engine simply died as one on pics he posted above. Spare parts for those pushrods are cheap all around the world... if you are not looking specifically for "Dong Fang" DF 250 RTB. Luckily, those engines are Chinese motorcycle engine mainstream.
BTW, those replacement engines you mentioned: you can find them easily in your neighborhood (US, I mean), both OHV and OHC engines, those who are "bolt on" solutions for your bikes.
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Low powered singles do not like to be lugged around.They'll blow.They are happiest running in their torque curve.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zorge
Holly cow!!!
How you did that man!? :eek2:
But guys... if you allow me... As Axa wrote, and I would agree with him, it is really small chance that engine simply died as one on pics he posted above. Spare parts for those pushrods are cheap all around the world... if you are not looking specifically for "Dong Fang" DF 250 RTB. Luckily, those engines are Chinese motorcycle engine mainstream.
BTW, those replacement engines you mentioned: you can find them easily in your neighborhood (US, I mean), both OHV and OHC engines, those who are "bolt on" solutions for your bikes.
Throw out some suggestions as to where to find easily. I would greatly appreciate it. Here in Houston, it is a tough chore. I do have a couple places I am going to check on, but over all.. forget it. Unless you can recommend some ideas.. that would be awesome.
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so do we have OHV or OHC? I know they are air cooled, but unsure about the Cam Valve thing? Still learning the inners of these.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtiewagon
so do we have OHV or OHC? I know they are air cooled, but unsure about the Cam Valve thing? Still learning the inners of these.
Over head valve. 167fmm aka CG250
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Thank you again sir. :icon10:
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtiewagon
Throw out some suggestions as to where to find easily. I would greatly appreciate it. Here in Houston, it is a tough chore. I do have a couple places I am going to check on, but over all.. forget it. Unless you can recommend some ideas.. that would be awesome.
Basically, as I understand, most of the brand new Chinese 125-150-200-250 cc thumpers you can find on "E-bay", "Craigslist", online shops, are clones of the "Honda" CB engine (which is OHC) and his "slow" cousin, "Honda" CG (OHV), which all have same rear engine mounts (those around front sprocket), while those on the front or at the head cane be slightly relocated, depending on displacement, cooling system, presence of balancing shaft, but all those mods that may be required, are tool-shed-level mods. Long story - short: when you find some Chinese engine, it is... I don't wanna to exaggerate, there is 90% probability that he'll fit on your bike.
If you ask people who live in US, they will probably throw few links for some shops or sellers, so if necessary, you can pick a new "heart" for your bike.
How to determine is engine on your DF OHC or OHV? I thought that you are getting your bikes with balanced CG clones, but this link confused me - http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Dongfang-...xWXiJS&vxp=mtr . Nevertheless, here's quick identification guide for Chinese OHV engines. If you see this shiny button on left side of a cylinder - you got a OHV. :icon10:
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zorge
Holly cow!!!
How you did that man!? :eek2:
But guys... if you allow me... As Axa wrote, and I would agree with him, it is really small chance that engine simply died as one on pics he posted above. Spare parts for those pushrods are cheap all around the world... if you are not looking specifically for "Dong Fang" DF 250 RTB. Luckily, those engines are Chinese motorcycle engine mainstream.
BTW, those replacement engines you mentioned: you can find them easily in your neighborhood (US, I mean), both OHV and OHC engines, those who are "bolt on" solutions for your bikes.
Zorge, do you happen to know with some authority that most if not all CG, or even 167fmm engine mounts match?
You seem to indicate you do, your probably correct but ive never seen a second engine than my own.
ive even had trouble finding a matching cylinder body and head, so im skeptical of manufactures ability to match each other.
And the CB would never fit with the dual exhaust pipes and the dual engine cradle down tubes.
So what about the suzuki GN clones, again they look similar but....
then we could swap in a 172fmm for the 167fmm, potential power gain.
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If someone among Chinese manufacturers decided to use different engine mount pattern (at least, couple of those at the back, whose role is also to determine position of the front sprocket) on their CG clone, this would be strange decision. And again, as I can see, depending on engine configuration, engine mounts on the head and in front of the crankcase can differ. Bottom line: if someone doesn't come up with evident proof that those two rear engine mounts are different, I will believe that all CG clones have the same mounts.
Why I throw in CB clones too? Because CG 125 engine is derived from CB 125 engine (not CB 125 T, which is twin cylinder) back in the mid 70's by replacing valvetrain, switching from OHC to OHV. As I have read not once in CG 125 history, other alterations would be unnecessary expense so... crankcase and their engine mounts should be the same. So, as I wrote, if someone doesn't come up with evident proof...
Who knows, maybe even CBF clones have same engine mounts as older CBs and CGs. I must to carry with me measuring tape and do some measuring when I stumble upon those engines.
About dual exhaust ports on CB you mentioned: I have no reasons to doubt that some Chinese engineer could decide to implement this configuration, but all CB 125 clones (including those bored out) I saw are with single exhaust port. For example, "bowtiewagon" posted link for used CB clone. Here is one of the photos I found there - http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/RGAAAO...J4/s-l1600.jpg . As you can see, it is single exhaust port configuration.
Twin exhaust ports you can see right on GN 250 clones. :icon10:
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Re: Starter motor brushes
This is the form used when importing an engine, if you import the same model engine that is on your EPA certified motorcycle, check the box “code W” under “Excluded Vehicles”.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...nts/3520-1.pdf
If you have any question contact the EPA, below is the EPA page with the above forms link and a contact link.
https://www.epa.gov/importing-vehicl...motor-vehicles
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I got a response from the seller of the Lifan CG250. Freight is more than the price of the engine.
If you buy 50 of the Lifan GG250 engines they are $150 each!
MJH, thanks for the EPA info.
Will it install without too much trouble? Who knows. Measurements of the engine contained in the link below.
Anyway probably too slow to get for bowties requirement of a fast repair.
| We are pleased to inform you that yoga from China (Mainland) has confirmed your order. We will send a notification when/if your order details are changed. |
| yoga |
Chongqing Lihan Machinery Parts Co., Ltd. |
http://cqlihan.en.alibaba.com/produc...mm_engine.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT
Reply below when I asked if this engine is EPA approved
Vincent,
Sorry to say that we don't have EPA approval.
So it's not allowed to export to USA.
Thank you!
Yoga |
So forget about it!
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MJH thanks for the form.I am confused though. Is thisrequired when purchaseing any engine from over seas? I mean, If I buy something off ebay.. does that mean I need this form as well?
Or if I can go through a dealer.. like a local scooter shop, will the form be required?
Also thank Bar. I have noticed that many of these motors are less than the shipping for them. Still less than a new bike. I am keeping my fingers crossed that when I pull it apart it is something I can fix easily. Hopefuly by saturday I will know what is up.
One more question.. Is THA Heist the same bike as thses? I alwasy thought they were, but not sure. I sent them an email yesterday, wondering if they could sell a motor. Have not heard back yet.
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Neither the Heist in 2011 nor the Dongfang in 2010 declared Lifan as the Engine OEM, they both list the name of the company as some other manufactured brand.
The engine is a OHV 229cc, the fact that the EPA states the engine OEM as other could get it stuck in red tape.
Heist 2011 certificate
| Category |
Certificate No. |
Engine Family |
Manufacturer Name |
Engine OEM MFR |
| Highway Motorcycle - II (170-279cc) |
BCCWC.250QJC-001 |
BCCWC.250QJC |
Cleveland CycleWerks LLC. |
Qingqi Group Ningbo Rhon Motorcycle Co., Ltd. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dongfang 2010 certificate
| Category |
Certificate No. |
Engine Family |
Manufacuter Name |
Engine OEM MFR |
| Highway Motorcycle - II (170-279cc) |
ADGFC.229MMA-001 |
ADGFC.229MMA |
Dongfang Motor, Inc. |
Ningbo Dongfang Lingyun Vehicle Made Co., Ltd. |
If the engine is already in the USA the importing has already happened, bringing one in requires the form and ideally the engine OEM should match the existing vehicle certificates OEM.
The question would be does it have to be the same manufacturer or can it be another manufacturer as long as it is the same engine which is...
Model:167FMM-M
Type: Single-cylinder,four-stroke,air-cooled hand-clutched outer-balance shaft 250cc
Displacement: 229ml
Compression ratio: 9.2:1
Primary reduction: 3.333
Bore*Stroke: 67mm*65mm
Max.Power & Rotating Speed: 12.5kw/7000r/min
Max.Net Power & Rotating Speed: 11.5kw/7000r/min
Rated Power & Rotating Speed: 11.2kw/7000r/min
Max.Torpue & Rotating Speed: 16N.m/6000r/min
Min.Fuel Consumption:≤354g/kw.h
Ldling Speed:1500r/min
Ignition:CDI
Starter: electric/kick starter
Lubrication: Pressure/splash
Transmission: 5 speed
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Re: Starter motor brushes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtiewagon
Thank you again sir. :icon10:
did you crack that head open yet. this could be all for nil
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Re: Starter motor brushes
bow,
If you buy an engine already in the USA (Ebay, US dealer, etc) then you do not need the form.
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I have yet to get into the engine, working too much gonna wait for the weekend. Just covering options at this point.
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Hate to be a bother guys. But anyone got a diagram on how to remove the head?. I am not motorcycle engine familiar, and I feel I will screw something up more. Took the plug out. Looks good, popped the valve cover, valves are good, not sure how to remove head.
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Re: Starter motor brushes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGgP...ature=youtu.be
this is what it sounds likem, I am not removing anything due to it still is running..oddly. it started. But sounds like crap. Timing perhaps?? thanks guys.. in advance.
