I didn't see you...or how a U-turner got me...

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Originally Posted by Fred

One more thing I didn't mention in my 1st post : I'm actually "pleased" with some consequences of the crash.

Of course I'm pissed off to be without a bike for a month, but if some of you guys remember from my bike presentation thread, since the 1st day I rode my new YBR, I felt something "strange" with the steering, when I was going straight the handlebars were not completely straight, but maybe 1 or 2 degrees off. After I insisted they changed the handlebars, but it was still the same. It was very slight so not a big problem to ride it, but when you buy a new bike, you expect everything to be perfect !
I was considering completely stripping the front of the bike this week to see where could be the problem, but now, I don't need to do it anymore... :icon10:
They will change the whole front deal : suspension forks, fork T, handlebars (again), everything that could be crooked or bent, without having to yell and convince them there's a problem, and without paying a dime.

So yeah, in a way, I'm "lucky" to have it happen to me in this way. :lol8:

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Glad to hear your alright.Bikes can be fixed or replaced.Humans are hard to fix or replace.

Glad you're ok. And if I ever get the chance to learn French, it's to be able to swear and curse when I need to. Swearing is fun in French eh?

Question, you mentioned that you hit the back of his car, was there no way to swerve and avoid it? I know we usually have less than two seconds to decide swerve OR brake. but did you think about it? Also, did you use both rear and front brakes?

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Originally Posted by slabo

Glad you're ok. And if I ever get the chance to learn French, it's to be able to swear and curse when I need to. Swearing is fun in French eh?

Question, you mentioned that you hit the back of his car, was there no way to swerve and avoid it? I know we usually have less than two seconds to decide swerve OR brake. but did you think about it? Also, did you use both rear and front brakes?

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Hey Slabo, yes swearing in French is indeed fun, and I'm guilty of it a little bit too much...

I didn't write that I hit the BACK of the car, but the side, between the left rear tire and the rear bumper. I T-boned it if you like, just on the rear. When I hit it, the car was still moving forward, hence why I was able to run and not smash myself stupidly on it.
On the question about swerving and/or braking : honestly it happens VERY fast. The car turned suddenly right into my path, completely across my lane and in this case you don't even know if the driver will stop there after seeing you or continue, so can you try to make it behind the car ??
As soon as it turned, it was completely across my lane so my only reflex was to jump on the front brake (I'm using the front brake 99% of the time, so it's the only one I used this time) and reduce as much as possible the velocity. As I wrote, I was only 10 meters away when it started to turn and going 40-45 km/h so imagine that in the room you're in now, it's very very close... My only instinct there was to brake as hard as I could, I saw after that I left a skid mark on the road. I was perfectly up-straight, so I would not have fallen down without the contact.

What is funny is that i avoided a taxi a month ago on the same road, a left turner this time, just in front of me. I was going fast for this stretch of road, around 65 km/h, and I had time to brake very hard from the front brake, then release it to swerve around the taxi who stopped right in the middle of my path when he saw me. It was a close call, but I had time to do both (braking and swerving around). This time, to be honest, I didn't have time to do much more than full braking to reduce the impact velocity.

Wow, that was a close call. Glad to hear you wasn't hurt. Lucky that no other vehicles on the right when you did that moon walk stunt.
I'd have had sounded the horn just in case if I had detected that that car suddenly slowed down. You just couldn't be too careful riding around Shanghai.

Fred, cool that you are OK. But glad you will get someone else to pay for a new front end on it. Wait and see if these replacement parts improve the bike and get rid of those weird noises.

Dear Fred,

To borrow a phrase from LJH, a happy ending indeed with you coming out uninjured, and all the more so for all of us China riders as we are able to greedily soak up lessons at your expense. On behalf of all, I thank you for being so open about the details and your response, and all of your own take-away lessons. Lots of food for thought in here.

I am curious about your near-total reliance on the front brake. During my first six months of riding on a very forest-worn, 10-year-old KLR650 in California, I too relied very heavily on the front brake, which seemed to work just fine. My experience with my JH600 in China has been different. The front suspension was soft and divey, so hard front braking felt quite unstable. So I developed a different set of braking habits, adding quite a bit of rear brake into the mix, especially when slowing into corners. Having two wheels creating friction does make a difference, especially when doing hard emergency braking as you did in your getoff last week. I'm not saying that doubling up on the braking might have helped in that situation, since braking inherently increases instability. But I can say this: Since I serviced my front forks and replaced the brake oil with a heavier viscosity that better damps the diving, I've noticed that my dual braking works much better in many conditions. I'm no expert rider, but I'm using my right foot more than ever.

I'm curious what our most expert riders have to say about this.

Again, glad you came out unscathed.

cheers

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Originally Posted by euphonius

I'm curious what our most expert riders have to say about this.

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Not an expert, but frequent crasher :mwink:

Depends on the bike, cruisers usually have more load weight in the rear, so using the rear brake will have a better result. In most cases, once you start rapid deceleration, most of the load is transferred to the front end, thus all of your stopping power is on the front tire. This is why you see double front disks in the front, and a tiny single disk in the rear.

Fred, glad you're OK. If the shop says it's going to be a month, I suggest finding a new shop. 1 week for parts, 1 day for labor, and you should be back on the road.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Originally Posted by euphonius

I've noticed that my dual braking works much better in many conditions. I'm no expert rider, but I'm using my right foot more than ever.

I'm curious what our most expert riders have to say about this.

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This is from experience and from reading quite a few books. Many professional road race riders use very minimal rear brake, but that's on a smooth race track conditions, whereas a motocross or enduro rider may use a great deal of rear brake to throw the back end around.

Generally if the road is smooth and dry you should use mostly front brake but applied progressively, as in a squeeze, in a straight line before a corner, but not a grab it. The front brake can be slowly progressively released during the corner up until the just before the apex (trail braking).

The rear brake should be applied gradually and then held on whilst needed and can be gently dragged right the way around a corner. Generally on the road the braking effect is minimal compared with the front and it's used to balance the bike's suspension. But with road conditions that are wet or dirty you should use more rear brake as it's easier to control any skid.

In the real world I think it's a good idea to do a bunch of emergency stops on different road surfaces in different temperatures and with different conditions and learn when the bike's brakes will lock and slide.

Think about this, what would be the best way to stop on ice at 40 kilometers an hour? If you apply any front brake the bike will slide, and after probably 6 foot you'll drop the bike. If you use the rear brake you'll probably slide 10 feet before dropping the bike. Change down and use engine braking the rear will skip around and you might drop it. Do nothing, no extra revs, no leaning no, braking is the safest way in this case.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

My experience with my JH600 in China has been different. The front suspension was soft and divey, so hard front braking felt quite unstable.

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If the front end suspension is too soft and you can't use much front brake get a mechanic to put more oil in the fork. It's silly to waste such a powerful braking force.

Thanks to all for the care.

Jeff, it's an interesting point that you make, and I don't mind one bit about answering to you about the braking technique and habits.

First : I never said that my "technique" is the best, far from it, and I know perfectly well that the braking is much more effective when using both brakes (75% front, 25% rear). I tested it times and times again and clearly the braking is really more efficient than braking only from the front.

So why am I using only the front 99% of the time ? Well, it's a mix of several factors :
- with the "cruiser" style Honda 150cc Shadow, I was using more rear brake, because as ChinaV mentioned, it was more "rear-heavy". I also use more the rear brake on the YBR when I have a pillion, for the same obvious reason.
- the YBR 250 front brake is very powerful, and at the same time, while practicing emergency brakings, I found that the rear drum brake is weak, to say the least. Yes, I could lock the rear tyre, but the braking is much less efficient than the front.
- when I ride, and as most of you do too I'm sure, I try not to have to do emergency brakings! Which means I decelerate much in advance for a red light, using the engine braking, and only at the end a little bit of front brake. So this is 99% of the time. If really I need to brake heavily and quickly for a red light (one I didn't see because of trees for example), then I will use the front brake AND the rear one, because as I wrote above, I know and I can feel very clearly that this is the most efficient braking method. Once again, as I try to anticipate all braking, I do not need to use the rear brake. I use the engine braking and the front brake slightly.
- because I use the front brake 99% of the time, what happens if confronted to an emergency situation like the one last week ? Well of course the muscle memory kicks in (because anyway you don't have time to think) and I used only the front brake. That being said, in that particular case, it's honestly hard to say if I would have hit the car or not if I used both brakes. Maybe, maybe not...

What is sure is that I need to use more often the rear brake, gently, as a combination for regular "red lights" braking. Only by doing this I will build my muscle memory and will be able to do it in an emergency and very sudden situation.

We're always trying to improve, I know this will be my next "challenge" when I'm back on the bike ! :mwink:

Hello
It's just not Chinese drivers. I had the same experience with a california car.
I was returning from a climb up Mt Hamilton on the 14 Harley (remember, only one not so great rear brake) riding through an industrial area on a quite Sunday afternoon. Two lanes either side of a grassed center median, I'm in the left lane following a Toyota Prias in the right lane, He starts to slow down, no signals, I assume he is turning into a driveway on the right when he suddenly turn left to make a U turn. I 'm tried to slow down and turn along side him with my handlebars in his window at which point he sees me and we are on the other side of the of the road. I carried on up a grass verge back onto the road ( wrong side)
mumbling some funny foreign words, got on the correct side of the road and carried on home. I never did stop, no damage and figured the the guy scared himself that he didn't need me to anything