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I forgot one, maybe important, topic. The hybrid or electric bikes of bigger size and power. It may well be that China is playing a leading role in this sector. I doubt that they would do it alone, but if a large manufacturer would be willing to cooperate (= spend the $$$), it could be another step forward.
Andy
BMW & Harley are lifestyle products, not simply motorcycles. As disposable incomes in their established markets start to fade, they are hopping the Chinese consumer will come to their rescue. Although I applaud the efforts of HD, let's not forget the real motive behind this. They failed to get action through their cries of unfair trade and now they are trying soft diplomacy to open doors in China. Remember, this is the same company that got the US government to slap a 45% tariff on all Japanese imports over 700cc back in 1983, these guys know a thing or two about lobbying. I hope the wives of the diplomats got to ride a Harley, I think it would really help the situation. :naughty:
Let's just ponder about opening those doors for a second because this kind of legislation would have a ripple effect through a lot of other industries. Once you open up to lifestyle recreation products, your talking millions of motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles, ATV's, boats, airplanes, helicopters, motor homes etc. I'm sure each one of these industries can present a pretty compelling case as to why the Chinese consumer needs their product, but it's going to take a long time for the folks in Beijing to figure out how to handle it. All of these industries represent freedom of travel and individuality, probably not the best marketing pitch when you're trying to persuade the Chinese government.
I think it's a long road ahead but this is China, things have been known to change rather quickly :mwink:
Cheers!
ChinaV
ZMC,
I'm not saying that because a company is not-Japanese that they will automatically succeed. There are certainly still plenty of Hondas, Yamahas, Toyotas, Nikons and Canons out there and justly so. In the world of marketing and competition, entitities struggle for every possible advantage they can get to capture market share. Notably lacking a "common mans" model line-up, BMW and HD are in this for long term and they must have made a BIG decision about their strategy and level of commitment to cultivating China as a potential market many years ago.
Two main reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
1) Americans LOVE exploding things (like the Ford Pinto) :icon10:
2) It takes about 20 seconds to fill a 50cc scooter's 1+ gallon tank for about 2.5 bucks and get over a hundred plus miles out of it... then fill it again and keep going.
Electric power takes a long time to charge and that power isn't free either. Not only that, but there's something living about an IC engine which I think gives the vehicle character... whether someone is conscious of it or not. Also, batteries are totally nasty for the environment... think about all those spent batteries in China, you think they're all going to end up properly recycled? ICK....
Not sure about Russia but India also has it's own manufacturers and are fiercely protective about it's motorcycle industry. You will see much fewer 200+cc bikes (like the CB400's you're talking about) in India than in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Again, not sure about Russia and would like to hear something about that.
As usual, it's likely a combination of a lot of reasons of which outsiders like us can only make educated guesses... at best. IMHO, what BMW and Harley are up against is the difficult task of changing the cultural morays (and all the political baggage that comes with it) that exist against motorcycles and powersports in general at the higher levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
ChinaV is right, you gotta take one of their wives for a ride of her life on a Harley (Wow, is that a loaded statement or what? :lol8:) and change their attiitudes about it. Much in the same way, the Chinese bike manufacturers need to understand riding as a passion and art, rather than a cheap utility vehical if the want to diversify their markets. All of this is still extremely recent in the scope/scale of Chinese history so will need some time to develope, so let's hope for the best! :thumbsup:
CC
I was last in India in 2000, some years ago. Yes, the Indians are very protectionist about their markets, so anything made outside India is prohibitively expensive for Indians. They have been making the Jurassic single cylinder Enfields in 350 and 500cc versions for years, and Indians are buying lots of 150-200cc singles these days, Hero Honda and Bajaj being big players. Whilst I don't expect to see any multi-cylinder bikes being made there any time soon, Honda and Yamaha may start making medium sized singles there. Of course Harley and BMW will probably be never taken very seriously there as they are just too expensive. My point is that there are other potentially growing motorcycle markets in the world, other than China, even if the western world is in recession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Carl
I hope for the best too!
T_a_i_w_a_n, Hong Kong and the domestic currently younger age group give me serious hope that there is, and will continue to be, a growing recreational riding market in China.