Legal issues, clarifying the law in China

That's a great link Andy :thumbsup:, I'll be aware of what it says, and believe it applies to us here too.

If anyone is wondering why I am taking the law more seriously now I am legal, this is because being legal actually will change the mileage I do, and the places I go, the types of vehicles I'll drive and possibly will need to be more aware of the safety of others. For example going for a ride in the country on my own on a bike is very different from collecting family members from an airport.

As far as I can see I am correct, as a Chinese driving license can be renewed without them officially needing to see your passport or visa (I'm sure they'd ask though), which means if a driving license was invalidated by being on another visa other than a residency visa, they would of course ask to see your visa and there would be a provision for it to be seen when renewing your license.

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

They have the "unknowable" in Chinese and English .

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That's the knowable.:naughty: The unknowable is not there........it never is.

I doubt your license would be invalidated by a visa status change but I'm using logic making that assumption. You just need a residence permit to get a license it says nothing about the licenses validity based on residency. I've found if something is not specified it can be interpreted at will. Logically though I agree a six year license should be valid for six years and not dependent on visa status..........but I'm not a judge.

My license was issued based on a residency permit in a British passport, my Drivers license has the same number as my British passport ........now I have a US passport and the residence permit number is also different...........it's not an issue with any traffic cop I've encountered cause they only want to see a valid license.
Would it be an issue with some other Govt organ, say the PSB.........who knows and I don't plan on asking.:lol8:

Read this regulation and try to keep a straight face as it pertains to Chang Jiangs. Especially regarding brakes.

:lol8:

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Article 103 Where the government department in charge of motor vehicle products fails to conduct strict examination and inspection in accordance with the State safety and technical standards for motor vehicles and permits unqualified motor vehicle models to be put into production, the persons who are directly in charge and the other persons who are directly responsible shall be demoted or dismissed from office as an administrative sanction.

Where a motor vehicle manufacturing enterprise that is permitted by the government department in charge of motor vehicle products to produce certain models of motor vehicles, fails to apply the State safety and technical standards for motor vehicles or to strictly conduct quality inspection of its finished products, so as to let its unqualified motor vehicles leave the plant for sale, the quality and technology supervision department shall, in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality, impose a penalty on it.

Where a unit that manufactures or sells the models of motor vehicles without permission by the government department in charge of motor vehicle products, the finished motor vehicles and the spare parts illegally manufactured and sold shall be confiscated, and it shall, in addition, be fined not less than three times but not more than five times the value of the unlawful products; if it has a business license, the administrative department for industry and commerce shall revoke the license; and if it has no business license, it shall be closed down.

Where self-assembled motor vehicles are turned out or sold or motor vehicles refitted without authorization are turned out or sold, a punishment shall be imposed in accordance with the provisions of the third paragraph of this Article.

Where motor vehicles not in conformity with the State safety and technical standards for motor vehicles are turned out or sold in violation of the provisions in the second, third and fourth paragraph of this Article, which is serious enough to constitute a crime, criminal responsibility shall be investigated according to law.

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This one is good for trucks :

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Article 102 Where a professional transport unit that is chiefly or fully responsible for two or more exceptionally serious traffic accidents within six months, it shall be instructed by the traffic control department of the public security organ to remove all the hidden troubles endangering safety, and the motor vehicles with the said hidden troubles shall be prohibited from running on roads until all the troubles are removed.

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I'd like to know the definition of "exceptionally serious"............and how they intend to find the hidden troubles.

Well it makes for a hefty read, the Chinese government English, and it's of course open to interpretation, but there is some information being conveyed somewhat in an over embellished form, but to be honest I've seen English far worse!...:lol8:

I imagine it is probably very illegal for tourists to ride motorcycles in China, but when I was there I found that the cops either didn't want to mess with it, or that the law left some wiggle room for wily foreigners.

There was talk about China accepting international driver permits in preparation for the olympics. I think that maybe Beijing said to all the local police stations "If you catch a foreigner and he has a permit let it slide."

Chris Maupin
www.chrison2wheels.com

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Originally Posted by Kurisu

I imagine it is probably very illegal for tourists to ride motorcycles in China, but when I was there I found that the cops either didn't want to mess with it, or that the law left some wiggle room for wily foreigners.

There was talk about China accepting international driver permits in preparation for the olympics. I think that maybe Beijing said to all the local police stations "If you catch a foreigner and he has a permit let it slide."

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The problem with China is that the rules are officially the same nationwide, but applied differently in different areas, also in bigger cities the less cops care about the fact that someone is a foreigner, whereas in some rural area a foreigner is a source of fascination.

Also in China they could be upset with American policy or someone has sold some Chinese artifact at auction, then the reception the next guy gets could be different from the previous guy.

Also in China there are too many people and too many laws, and too much corruption. This means what tends to happen is some rules are enforced on a purge basis. For example on a street near me there are loads of street vendors all over the sidewalks. Usually in the morning the cops come round to accept their daily charge of 10RMB (backhander :naughty:). Once every few years though, they come and fine all the street vendors, close down the stalls and take some stalls away. This carries on for about a month or two and you can then walk down the sidewalk, but buying food at lunchtime then becomes a headache, then everything goes back to normal. The same thing happens with traffic cops too. Also central government has peoples congress meeting every year where the change some laws and increase the seriousness of other laws and make new laws.

The problem is that there are lots of people who have ridden around China semi-legally telling everyone else there is no problem. However, an accident or being in the wrong place at the wrong time could be serious. It all just depends, and is highly unpredictable! What is predictable is that the more legal you are the better.:icon10:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

The problem is that there are lots of people who have ridden around China semi-legally telling everyone else there is no problem.

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:lol8:

Exactly how long have you had your licence ?

European license............12 years :icon10:

Seriously there are/have been people riding around on small capacity bikes with no registration. Which isn't really even trying!

The other day I saw a fellow laowei on an R1, the license plate said "Made in Hong Kong", should we say "stolen in Hong Kong"?

In my province, I know that the cops after an accident have overlooked the fact that one of my friends had no Chinese license or any other kind of license, except an expired home license which was... back in his home country, without even motorcycle entitlement! He was told that the bike being registered and insured was enough...that was here, I'm sure in Shanghai that is absolutely not the case! Which was my point, there is no static state of how much bending of the law there is which is acceptable...it depends on when, where, what, who etc etc.....

On advrider, there was a guy nicknamed 'beemer boy' who has a long thread about a ride he took in China. He bought a used Zongshen which was registered in China, rode it into China, had alot of breakdowns, sold the bike, and bought a new Qingqi. He was involved in a fairly serious accident with a car, which was determined by the police to be the car driver's fault, and the guy had to pay him compensation. However, it was in a more rural part of China, and was on a country road--in other words, it was not Shanghai. Not sure his license status, as he is an American living and working in Thailand, but I am fairly sure he did not possess a Chinese license!

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

... As far as I can see I am correct, as a Chinese driving license can be renewed without them officially needing to see your passport or visa (I'm sure they'd ask though), which means if a driving license was invalidated by being on another visa other than a residency visa, they would of course ask to see your visa and there would be a provision for it to be seen when renewing your license.

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My wife's dl expired last month and she got it renewed for another 6 years.
They didn't ask for the visa, but we still don't know whether it's not needed, they forgot or they didn't care.
You have one month to renew the dl after it expired and you get it renewed with paying a fine within one year.
You have to do it all over if you overstay the validity over one year, which means then you'll need the residence permit.
You can renew it only one month before it expires.

Again, that's in Beijing, other places may be different and things may change over night :naughty: