The first JH600 in Nanjing?

I would love to join you but we have sales team from work coming in from USA today for visit to a supplier on Tuesday. I will need to babysit them :(

At least one of the guys rides in the USA and I will fire up the Chang Jiang 750 and the JH600 for a ride out around Jiangxin Island on Wednesday. Not really anything as nice as thear ride you are taking but it is close to me and not so many cars out on the island to dodge. Plus there are some dirt trails to explore.

I am jealous. I am sure you should include invite to jkp as he is pretty close by and has a new toy that requires seat time too.

DT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Haha. Yeah I thought the mods looked so similar, but I had thought (incorrectly) perhaps AW had done most of the mods himself.

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Hi bikerdoc and TexasAggie,

that is my bike posted here. The guy is Mr. Tu who made the hardware (luggage rack, engine and sump guard and boxes). You can see him also standing on the rack for "testing" on the pictures in my report. I sent the bike to Zhejiang for that and picked it up riding it back to Fuzhou (see my RR Zhejiang to Fuzhou). The guys are really great - met them through Franki. There are a bunch of other chinese pages with these pictures - information is spreading... Can't do all by myself - especially not these boxes which are great. Need their contact, let me know.

Cheers,
AW.

Well, TIC and another Bad China Day. Warning for all you new JH600 owners.

As I live in a 35 story high rise, I do not have a proper garage. I did get the management to let me park my Jialing and my CJ in "special" spots but they are dark and not good for doing any maintenance. So....I went to local "mechanic" that I have been told by numerous locals is the best motorcycle mechanic in Nanjing for modern bikes to get the oil changed for the first time at 300km. I brought the synthetic oil and the oil filter. Of course it still turned into a complete clusterfuck as one of the three bolts holding the oil filter in place immediately snapped off upon trying to remove it. Then the fucking circus started. After 2 hours of painfully watching the removal job being attempted without proper tools resulting in a worse and worse situation. I grew angry and just used 2 screws to put the plate back on with new filter. I will bring some fucking tools from the USA and fix it myself in the damn street. I have not been too unhappy with the bike itself but I definitely am not happy the factory does not have any automated torque equipment or no idea how to calibrate their DC drivers if they are using this technology. I spent 25 years building engines in the automotive industry so I am not blind on maintenance but having proper tools sure keeps things from turning into what happens here all the time. I have not even tried to replace the muffler, rear shock, and front fork springs even though I have the new designs from AW and Franki in my possession but if I cannot even get the oil changed, I am not about to let the local monkeys screw with anything else more complicated. THose looking to buy one of these should consider their local maintenance facility. If you have access to local dealer or something other than the damn street, you will like the bike but if you live in a city with no dealer, beware.

To sum up the day, I would strongly suggest replacing the three standard oil filter screws with something stronger and also remember to lubricate them before torquing them down as steel and aluminum tend to bond over time.

Attached are few pictures including the side panniers. I am basically happy with the supports as they came from Jialing. The boxes themselves are not very strong but they are working fine for around town use. Considering the lack of talent in Nanjing, I am happy I bought already assembled. AW and jkp have better quality by going to aftermarket modifications but they also had either access to good talent, time, or both to do their modifications.


Attachment 2045Attachment 2046Attachment 2047Attachment 2048Attachment 2049

No good deed goes unpunished!

Damn, feeling your pain, Aggie. Having done my first oil change in the streets of a small town outside Chongqing, I'm feeling it could just as well have happened to me. I live in similar circumstances (20th floor vs 35th) and have no ideal place to wrench it myself. But I do have what I believe to be a good competent mechanic, and now I'm thinking I should negotiate access to some place where I can do my own wrenching.

Nanjing is a big place. Surely with a little initiative we in this forum (and others) can find a good shop for you there.

Incidentally, are you able to get correct oil filters in Nanjing? I bought 10 from Jialing while I was there.

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TexasAggie

Well, TIC and another Bad China Day. Warning for all you new JH600 owners.

As I live in a 35 story high rise, I do not have a proper garage. I did get the management to let me park my Jialing and my CJ in "special" spots but they are dark and not good for doing any maintenance. So....I went to local "mechanic" that I have been told by numerous locals is the best motorcycle mechanic in Nanjing for modern bikes to get the oil changed for the first time at 300km. I brought the synthetic oil and the oil filter. Of course it still turned into a complete clusterfuck as one of the three bolts holding the oil filter in place immediately snapped off upon trying to remove it. Then the fucking circus started. After 2 hours of painfully watching the removal job being attempted without proper tools resulting in a worse and worse situation. I grew angry and just used 2 screws to put the plate back on with new filter. I will bring some fucking tools from the USA and fix it myself in the damn street. I have not been too unhappy with the bike itself but I definitely am not happy the factory does not have any automated torque equipment or no idea how to calibrate their DC drivers if they are using this technology. I spent 25 years building engines in the automotive industry so I am not blind on maintenance but having proper tools sure keeps things from turning into what happens here all the time. I have not even tried to replace the muffler, rear shock, and front fork springs even though I have the new designs from AW and Franki in my possession but if I cannot even get the oil changed, I am not about to let the local monkeys screw with anything else more complicated. THose looking to buy one of these should consider their local maintenance facility. If you have access to local dealer or something other than the damn street, you will like the bike but if you live in a city with no dealer, beware.

To sum up the day, I would strongly suggest replacing the three standard oil filter screws with something stronger and also remember to lubricate them before torquing them down as steel and aluminum tend to bond over time.
Attached are few pictures including the side panniers. I am basically happy with the supports as they came from Jialing. The boxes themselves are not very strong but they are working fine for around town use. Considering the lack of talent in Nanjing, I am happy I bought already assembled. AW and jkp have better quality by going to aftermarket modifications but they also had either access to good talent, time, or both to do their modifications.
No good deed goes unpunished!

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Ouch! WTF are they doing with that electric drill in the last photo? Seriously I would have gone ape shiet... I have no problem telling some of the locals they're just one step above __________ , though in my haste to curse I usually yell ________ , which doesn't go down well sometimes (wifey!). Mate, I can sympathise with you, I sure as hell wouldn't have fcukd round with it for more than 30min. Been there done that one time never again. It's got to be hard without the garage/space and a decent place to swing a wrench. But for gawds sake get yourself a good selection of tools... and do it yourself. Especially DT you're an engineer, mate, don't trust them... just don't. It seems harsh, even discriminatory - but I've been burnt and been privy to enough of the BS that passes the mustard for the masses here. Meet many CEO's, C.D.'s, G.M's et. al., who've been cheated by all kinds of business practices & bureaucracy here. That's why when I finally vacate this (____) empire, I will not be buying anything made in the middle k1ngdoom if I can help it (of course I've got to be able to determine the origins of something), that also might seem conceited and biased but I have and continue to see far too much incompetency around me, and so much cheating beyond belief, at the expense of there fellow countrymen and/or the international community.

My other observation is, it might be prudent to replace the hex headed bolts with some alloy Allan key headed ones if possible... just my opinions.

Nanjing is a city of 8 million 12 year olds.

I was impressed with the quality of the talent you have dealt with recently. I am still thinking I will put Big Blue on a truck and send it to your "Mr Muffler Man"! I am not about to use the clowns I have found here. It took 3 years to find a competent CJ750 mechanic and he is still scary to watch. But he honestly told me he was not interested in working on the JH as he is just CJ mechanic. Hopefully I will find someone with a clue for the JH600 that is at least as competent and my CJ mechanic is. As far as the new rear shock and new front fork springs, I am waiting until I have some confidence in someone local, ship the bike to someone competent, or my own tools and space to do the job correctly. Attached are pics of the fat guy as he was about to blow up. I am that fat guy in the white shirt!
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I forgot to answer jkp on the oil filters. I ordered 6 of them from the factory. That was the reason I was so pissed off when the clown told my wife there was no such thing as the parts manual. Then after telling him I knew someone, jkp, with one he told us it was ilegal to send it out to customers??? WTF

Anyway, I did not kill anyone and I will get the bolt out and replace all three with better bolts when I return from the USA with a good bolt extraction tool. I think bikerdoc is correct to consider allen head grade 8 or even 10.

I am getting truly uncomfortable with some of the terms and ideas being expressed here. I am the first to call a fuckwit a fuckwit in any race or colour but you guys are getting beyond the point of acceptable insult and discussion! Back it off or keep it to private opinion in PM. You CANNOT insult a whole country/race of so many varied traditions and cultures, undergoing such a political and social transformation, all clowns and baboons just because they don't conform to YOUR standards of education, knowledge and practise.
TONE IT DOWN.
I could and will if pushed give my own opinion of fucking arrogant yank pricks and murderers around the world, but that of course would be immature and patently ignorant of me. Many people applauded what happened on Sept 11. Now I know why. Stay in your own backyard and play with your mumma boobies if you can't deal with the complex, facinating, diverse and grown- up real world and also, get off this forum.

Update on the Oil filter cover:
I can attest to the fact the oil cover has had zero leakage with only two bolts holding the cover in place. As this cover pushes against the actual oil filter with a rubber grommet, I was worried. However, the O-ring seal is working so far and I rode around town for several hours. I would not suggest this, but if anyone else happens to have the bolt snap off like I did, at least you know you can probably get by until you have proper repair resources.

Overall, the bike performance and design have not disappointed me. It is not my GSA but it sure works as well as my Honda 650L and it is legal here in China.

I am hoping I can successfully remove the broken bolt without damaging the housing threads too much more than they are. I guess as a last resort, I will order new housing cover plate.

I bought a bidirectional drill yesterday but could not find complete extractor kit so I will bring a reverse drill bit and extractor kit with me back from either Europe or USA. If anyone knows where to get these in Shanghai or elsewhere in China, let me know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TexasAggie

I bought a bidirectional drill yesterday but could not find complete extractor kit so I will bring a reverse drill bit and extractor kit with me back from either Europe or USA. If anyone knows where to get these in Shanghai or elsewhere in China, let me know.

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All points bulletin! Calling Pfaelzer! He's got the best-stocked garage in China, and seemingly every tool under the sun....

Actually, there are tons of broken bolt extractor kits in Taobao. I searched for the term "broken screw" (断螺丝) and got MANY HITS

http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploa...pg_310x310.jpg

Your team in Nanjing should be able to source something useful....

cheers

Thanks, for the help. I could not find this in stock here among the local stores or the B&Q but we were told that they could be had. I was not so fortunate on the T-handle that clamps onto these so you can exert direct straight line pressure onto the top of the extractor while turning. I have always failed miserably trying to use an adjustable end wrench or something similar. A counter clockwise drill bit is my real secret weapon I am looking for. When drilled out with the counter clockwise drill and a good extractor with t handle is used used even my limited talent has allowed me success. All this being said, I had not tried Taobao to find this. Good idea for a starting place. Sometimes I do not see the forest for the trees, especially when frustrated. Thanks.

Pfaezler advised that he is away (back in EU) until mid-end August.
With regards to the bolt extractors (easy outs), have you thought about using the T-Bar handle from a socket set? I've got a great LUX socket set that has one with numerous adaptors, though I'm certain you could buy one as single unit in the tools section of B&Q (it's one of my fav places to shop in PRC - I feel like a kid in candy store). [The interesting thing is not all stores carry the same stock between one place and another, as I found out when I stopped in a B&Q store in Wuxi. It was like being in a whole other candy store. OK, off topic...]
Usually for such kinds of snapped bolts, I drill an undersized hole the length of the broken bolt, then using either a T-Bar handle or a small adjustable speed hand-held drill connected by an adaptor to the bolt extractor, seems to work fine for me. I've not had problems using ring or open-ended spanners though to get the easy out to bite into the broken/snapped bolt though. Maybe I just have a steadier hand?

Thanks for the tips. The Nanjing B&Q did not have anything that I saw Thursday. However, as upset as I was, I could have missed it. The local team did manage to drill the bolt but without proper tools, I am afraid they went off center and possibly even damaged the threads beyond repair. they were trying to help but............. Anyway, I was finally able to call time out and will now try to finish the extraction myself. Thanks to jkp, I have a good plan B as I have the repair parts manual and will order new side case if need be. Then it just gets back to finding the resources to do this and the replacement of suspension parts, etc., etc.

I am still looking at other shops as well as discussing just renting space and having my own shop. Unfortunately, my job is 6 days a week so finding the time has been a real issue. Anyway, I am seriously thinking of renting a local shop and running it my way just for myself and possibly a few riders here in Nanjing. I do not need it to make money, just have a good place to work on the bike. I would be way ahead. My real job is manufacturing electronics so I am limited in using these facilities as oil and clean rooms do not mix well. However, my tantrum Thursday has me thinking outside the box and looking at pictures from Pfaezler's facility! I think it may be the best way to sanely resolve the maintenance issues and still have some good riding. Might even hire my CJ mechanic and see what he could do with some decent tools!

off subject a little but Pfaelzer is my hero! I am sure he is really enjoying his German ride this summer.

Attachment 2074Good news, there are two JH600's in Nanjing.

I was invited on a morning ride with the local Nanjing CJ motorcylce club this morning. I showed up to find 20 Chang Jiang's and 1 Jialing!

We had a nice ride. My CJ mechanic had done some repairs on my CJ and since it was running well, I took him to meet up with the club. Great group of people. Had some nice discussions on service for the JH600. I really like having both the JH600 and CJ750 running smooth. Best China day I have had in months! Looking forward to seeing them again soon.

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Today indeed was an amazingly beautiful day. MotoKai and I had a sweet overnight ride down to Moganshan, over the back to Anji and back via a southern swing. We did 600+ km, a nice way to break in MK's JH600.

According to the lunar calendar, today is something called 立秋, liqiu, which literally means "autumn arises". That Chinese calendar is nothing if not accurate. Still hot and sunny, but breezy and drier and gorgeous.

It is good to hear of TA and Euph and Motokai getting out and about and enjoying the rides, the bikes and the folk! Especially as it is still grey and cold here, keep it up fellas! More pics TA?

The best answer to criticism of chinabikes is ride reports and pics of people enjoying them and you seem to have found a good machine. Herr Pfaelzer was a real pioneer there. The workshop idea sounds great TA, nothing like 'enlightened self interest' to get such a project going. I wish I was young again, I used to enjoy the hours in a workshop 'tinkering' and chewing the fat. Something very good about keeping your own machine flowing along well and even improving it.

Good reading, thanks.

I have not been young for many years. However, it was a good day.

Had a nice day on Jiang Xing Zhou island last week.

The start of the day...which toy to take?
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The decision was easy as there were dirt trails to discover.
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The wife and I on the island (yes, I am out of my league)
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We chose the levee road/trail and followed it around the island
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We dodge the hazards!
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We then headed home across the bridge (Note the no motorcycle sign as I pass the police no problem!)
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And back to Nanjing. Not a bad day at all as the JH600 ran ok for the day. (Although I did have some pretty severe stalling later that night while pub crawling but that is another thread)



Then back to Nanjing

Out of your league DT? You mean old bugger with potbelly wins beautiful wife who adores him? Woohooo, I might have a chance yet then! China, here I come .... next year is too long to wait ...

Great bike, great lady, great pics. I can see why you took the JH600, she has to hold on to you! Thanks, and please excuse my sense of humour. You will always get some stalling when you run m'bikes on alcohol mate.

No apologies on the humor. You are correct that old, fat, and going bald got lucky in China. After 16 years of being divorced, I came to China 6 years ago and did not last 2 years as a single old man. Happily married is no longer an oxymoron for this old Ag. She even puts up with my Bad China Day rantings by just ignoring me. She is brilliant at it.

The bike probably would have run on alcohol better. I am thinking it might be the fuel giving the ECU fits as noted in another thread. Also need to look at the spark plug and replace as AW and others have suggested. Need to sort it sometime this week if time allows.

More strength to you mate! These days it seems happiness is a rare phenomenon and is well worth the effort to keep it.

Have you talked to others with EFI bikes, do they get the problem or is it just the JH600s? The thread suggests it is both fuel and EFI but I think fuel would show up on other such machines. Is there a carby version of that machine or would that be too hard?

I run my (carburetored) Kinlon on anything handy, usually regular, but I have used premium, and even ethanol mix with no stalling problems. The manufacturers say use 'premium' in it but others on the forum have told me that regular in Aus is same as premium over there! Sometimes when I am broke I even top it up with spare 2 stroke mix I have prepared for the chainsaw and I haven't noticed any running problems. You might get some pinking with bad fuel, or gunked up carbies or injectors but the stalling in certain rev ranges only that you get certainly suggests EFI. In my car I found that the sensors in the fuel flow area played up when I took out the air filter and it misses then in some very limited rev ranges, when throttling either up and down in all gears. I don't think Pfaelzer mentioned that problem occuring seriously on all his trips so it might be an idea to compare the EFI model/versions on the bikes that stall with those that don't?

There are several of us experiencing the stalling issue. Try this thread
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...JH600-stalling
We will get it sorted one way or the other I am sure. Just need the time to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

... I don't think Pfaelzer mentioned that problem occuring seriously on all his trips so it might be an idea to compare the EFI model/versions on the bikes that stall with those that don't?

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Hi Jape and TA,
my JH600 stalls too BUT very rarely and only when I "roll around" with the clutch pulled longer than it needs to. Happened sometimes to me on the streets in cities... low speed, low rpm,never when cornering at speed... not a serious threat to me so far. Guess it is really related to the EFI - there were many stories about that and even BMW had issues with their older F650GS single cylinder series.Eventually they will iron that out I suspect. Need to check on the next software update. When this is out I will order a new EFI unit - keep the old one with the old program - to compare and to be able to switch back in case the new version has other bugs.

Other than that - you can buy a power commander and start tuning by yourself. Quite an investment and unless you are tech crazy like some of us (me) it doesn't seem to make sense doing it.

Cheers,
AW.

Aggie, great report, you stud! Bigger pictures please. Not sure why they are nesting on the page like that.

As for petrol and stalling, for what it's worth, my experience is closer to Pfaelzers than TexasAggie's -- the stalling is rare and not too troubling (except when it is). It's very possible that Nanjing has a policy of adding ethanol to all fuel in the city. This certainly varies from province to province in China. I don't think the JH600 and its EFI like ethanol.

cheers

I now manufacture Fiber Optic transmitters, etc but my previous life was 20 years in the auto industry manufacturing engines. Based on the symptoms experienced, it did indeed seem to act like the EFI car engines when not set up for ethanol, only much more severe. The injector clogs up in a hurry when the fuel varies off of the calibration specs. I may have used ethanol fuel without realizing it. HEll, I may have dirty fuel but it ran well all day on same tank full. It certainly would not be the first time I screwed up one way or the other. Anyway, I need to change the spark plug as well install the muffler and some expensive pfaelzer authorized suspension upgrades at some point soon. I figure to try and do it over Chinese National Holiday and see what happens. Still looking at locations for having my own private shop but until I can find something close by, I will try again with another local guy I found. (I will supply the tools this time) I like the idea pfaelzer has of buying the new ECU with new software and plugging it in. Good idea to keep the old one around to go back to.

On another note to jkp: How is the collar bone healing up? I hope you are soon back to full speed.

Good News on the stalling with Big Blue in Nanjing.

I drained most of the gas (offered it free to local who offered to siphon it and still wanted it for his scooter even after explanation), rode the JH600 sputtering and coughing to the fuel station and put new fuel in. Bike running back to it's normal level now. I still hope to put in new spark plug and anxiously await the ECU with new software to become available to try but at least I can ride the bike as before. Funny that it did OK on the suspect tank of fuel for 100km before puking but I am not going to over analyze at this point. I will stick with bad fuel as number one possible root cause and move on. Not running perfect, but not so bad as to not enjoy a decent ride!

That is good news! Is it too obvious to place a fine mesh in the fuel tank filler and get a better inline fuel filter?

Or maybe collect fuel in a 20 litre container, add 'stabile' or similar and strain it yourself? That is how I often fuel my bike because I don't commute, I just fill and ride when I want from a 20 litre can that I get filled regularly for all my gas fueled tools. I strain it anyway because I often use the can around the chainsaws and trimmer etc. in the shed with all the crap around them, fine sawdust and grass and fine soil dusts. And especially from the fine metal scale or grinding dust that might be around however careful I am. It used to be a pain to do as I always want things 'instant' in this day and age - but I got used to it and it only takes a couple of minutes. Of course I don't have to fill it every time, but I generally top up after a ride as I learned years ago to run gas-fueled motors from a full tank.

Actually, the fuel removed was clean. It is the refining that I suspect is the issue. This same issue sends the design guys in Automotive up the tree here. Fuel often does not meet stated specifications for octane, sulpher, etc. This creates havoc for the ECU trying to figure out what to do. Many of the big OEM car guys, who build the cars here in Nanjing, tell me they actually use different software for same cars depending on what province in China they are sold in. You tune the software for optimum emissions and then get fuel not to spec and the car misses. If you tune the software to run on wider spec fuel, you do not meet the tight emissions. It is a catch 22 if the fuel is not to spec. There are also issues with "knock off fuel" just like "knock off purses and watches" It is just part of the fun here. I was surprised this time as the suspect fuel came from a Synopec which is usually pretty good. Of course, the bike may act up again later tonight when I go out and prove all my suppositions above as garbage. I am just taking good news when I see it for as long as it lasts.