Well, that QM 250 is a clear copy of the Yamaha YBR 250 (around RMB 23,000 in Shanghai) as far as I can see.
Oh and welcome Ekkicore. ;-)
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Well, that QM 250 is a clear copy of the Yamaha YBR 250 (around RMB 23,000 in Shanghai) as far as I can see.
Oh and welcome Ekkicore. ;-)
I really enjoyed that…..
I am noticing that Qingqi is utilizing the oil coolers and so is the Yinxiang and that Yinxiang 200cc is a 4 valve engine with 12kw. Yinxiang also has a 233cc four valve engine with 14.8kw….so they seem to be offering marginally more powerful engines. I actually like that manufacturers approach and would not mind seeing them offer that 200cc at a Hyosung dealer I would consider it and really consider it if they put the 233cc 4-valve in it and can keep the price down.
@ Fred: Thanks for the welcome :) did you mean the QM250 was 25,000rmb, or the Yamaha??
This thread needs a little clarification, since the Qingqi 250 bikes are all called QM250.
Ekki, the bike you want is the supermoto version, the full name is QM250GY-B(ASD):
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...QingQi/250.jpg
The bike that fred is talking about is the Qingqi QM250GY-2D:
http://www.qcql.com/chinese/2010/other/10062210/14.jpg
These are both almost the same bike, same engine, frame, suspension, wheels, brakes.... There are just a few superficial differences like the tank, seat, headlight...
The 23000RMB price that fred mentioned is for the Yamaha YBR250. We don't know the price for the Qingqi yet, but my guess is around 15000, give or take a couple of thousand.
There is also a QM version of a street bike that also utilizes that same 250cc engine. That bike could be compared to the YBR250 but it definitely not a copy of it.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ingQi/Q250.png
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ngQi/QM250.png
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...Qi/QM250-2.png
QM also makes a track style bike that offers only a 125cc engine option… however Suzuki did make a 250cc version at one time called a Grass Tracker, TU250 Big Boy.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...rackstar-1.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ackergrass.jpg
This is the Bike that Ekkicore has her heart set on…the 250 motard version.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...QingQi/250.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ngQi/250-2.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ngQi/250-3.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ngQi/250-4.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ngQi/250-5.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ngQi/250-6.jpg
from http://articles.superhunky.com/4/80Quote:
Originally Posted by humanbeing
The Bridgestone Hurricane Scramblers of the late '60s and early '70s had a rotary shift pattern that was bizarre beyond belief! You would shift up through all six gears, then when you hit the shifter one more time it would go back to low gear. Imagine the surprise when the rider was in top gear, all tucked in and howling down a fire road, and snicked the lever one more time, only to be greeted with low gear and 11 million instant rpm!
Which chinese bike still has such a shifter?
I'm not exactly sure what pattern this bike has. My F650 broke down on the way home last month, and one of the cops let me borrow his bike so I could go fetch some bits to fix it. It was the toughest five kilometer ride of my life. No brakes, all bearings and bushings completely shot, no oil in the forks, etc. I also couldn't figure out the shift pattern, it always seemed to end up back in first. Oh well, made it alive...barely. :icon10:
http://www.contactdi.com/random/zhujiang.jpg
Cheers!
ChinaV
That old bomb may have been based on the shift pattern I once knew in UK, one up, four down, no wonder you kept ending up in first! I learned on and grew up with an old bitsa did that, thus I thought all bikes were like that until I found out the hard way ( I ended up very embarrassed, asking someone how to change gears on my new Honda in front of a crowd of bikers outside the Archway pub in London, in 1969 I think). I still automatically do it the wrong way at times and it can be a worry trying to work out what the hell gear I am in especially in busy traffic. Glad to see others have the same problem. ;-P
Honda CG125 clone powered by Taiwanese Kymco machine. I warned these bike in #14Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaV
Cannonball, the old ZX150 had a circular shift pattern which I think is the only other popular shift pattern available in the Chinese bikes.
Down is still down and up is still up, but instead of hitting a shift stopper, you cycle through the gears again and neutral was in between 1 and 5. So when you upshift from 5th, you go back to neutral then 1st. Took some getting used to but found it was quite handy in traffic!
CC
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaV
i'm back!
and still in Quzhou, Zhejiang.. where i went for my first riding lesson today!! on a zhongshen zs200gy..
was a bit intimidated by it and having to manage the clutch, gear-changing and break, so i didn't actually RIDE anywhere.. just moved forward and learned to stop..
but i did alright.. my teacher was proud :)
my arms got tired after a while though so i went back onto a manual scooter to practice gear-changing so i wouldn't find the big bike so daunting the next time..
all i can say is.. i had so much fun today, i'm already craving my next ride!
and i'm definitely, definitely more in love with bike riding than ever! :)
can't stop smiling.. :) :) :) :) :) :)
WB. That is all you need! The rest is just a function of time and distance. Now don't get too excited and jump on without leathers or kevlar and a helmet - make sure you gear up every time. One crash and slide on your face will take ALL the happiness out of it. You don't lose the pleasure, it is for a lifetime - you may get lazy at times or even forget because life is busy, but one day you see a bike and ... off you go. And it is something you can share but is also very individual and personal. Just .... free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekkicore
haha i think i'm gonna practice on the scooter more, until i'm comfortable with gear-changing.. i was wondering though, is the seat height on the Qingqi taller than the Zhongshen? cuz i found the Zhongshen to be just right on normal roads, but on dirt if i've stopped over a pothole then i can barely push out of it cuz i'm on tiptoes..
i guess the moral of this story is to stay away from potholes!
Yes potholes are best avoided, especially big ones at speed! I'm don't know the specific seat heights for those two bikes but they're probably pretty similar. All dirt bikes are tall as a result of having long suspension. Long suspension is good because you're less likely to get stuck in a pothole in the first place!
There is some info here (in the thread linked below) that might help, ( ie look at motards ... lol) and I am sure somewhere here I read of someone found a shorter bike for his missus in the last few months ... hopefully someone else will remember the thread?
As you are small built, (lightweight too?) you can probably lower rear springs if you can find a good helpful mechanic who knows his stuff so the setup is balanced. Sounds like just a couple of centimetres will be enough so you have various options with tyres, rims, springs, shaving the seat down. It is more a case of getting a lot more practise in on different models and types before you choose I think, after a while one 'bike will feel more right as you go slow and maneuver, lighter in the hand, more balanced as you stand up on the pegs and slowly tweak the throttle over bumps then sit back and rev up round a curve - that is the one to go for.
I don't know where you are in China compared to our members but someone will be living near you and willing to meet up and assist in all this I am sure. Everyone has their own favourite but it is an individual thing, so get the time in on different bikes if you can.
The arm strain shouldn't be as bad as you are getting, you really need a knowledgeable mechanic to help with all this setting up of bike, bars, levers etc. and very soon the changing of gears will become automatic. A bike with gear indicator lights helps while you learn but in the end you hear/feel the revs more than anything else to decide when to change.
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...or-a-short-guy
About an inch taller 31" for the Zongshen and 32" for the Qingqi if it has 17" street tires, the Qingqi bike with 21" and 18" wheels has a seat height of 35 inches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekkicore
still trying to learn the difference between a motard and an enduro.. from what i can gather, enduros have bigger (especially in the front) knobbly tires whereas motards have street tires that are the same both front and back (17" was i think..)?
if this is the case, is it possible to put street tires on an enduro, would that make it lower and could you then call it a motard??
sorry for sounding like the n00b that i am.. :p
Yeah, names can be a misleader. I wouldn't worry about the names, more the design and whether you can ride it easily and safely on the roads you will be on most of the time! That is what matters. And then you look at reviews and forums like this to get feedback on models and makes because they all vary and again, names can mislead - just because they call it off-road doesn't mean it will survive there!.
Most bikes you see on here are off-road designs designed to become street legal and ridable by softening slightly the difference between on-road and off road bikes.
Ie, The different frame design, low end power, different springs and centre of gravity, knobbly tyres and so on of the true off-road dirt bikes is softened a bit to make them easier on a long ride on ashphalt. They become road-trail or dual-purpose bikes in the manufacturer's naming styles.
Some just have lights and indicators bolted on, some are designed properly to perform as a good compromise between the two conditions. They can go on rough roads - where a road bike rider has problems because of low frame, soft springs, seating position, balance, smooth tyres etc. But that balance difference, ride position and the need for ground clearance on rough tracks, mud, streams etc. makes the dirt bike styles taller for the rider in many cases -once you get away from the smaller bikes. The wheel size obviously makes them taller and knobby tyres makes them taller again!
So some makers and designers tried to compromise a bit better than just bolting indicators and lights on a dirt bike. They softened the engine gearing to spread the power all over the usage, not just torque to get through ruts and mud and up steep wet hills, but smoother all through to cruising speed. They softened the springing a bit, put on smaller wheels and smoother tyre profiles! The softer end of these bikes is called motard, the harder end, road/trail.
Here is a good pic of the two together. Look at the wheels especially. http://www.kinlon.com.au/models.php
Basically the same bike. The road/trail has bolted on lights and indicator and thats about it, the motard has different wheels and tyres, more design for street credibility in the plastics and styling, even the engine colour! So there is no hard and fast rule, it goes across a range from road racers and cruisers to utility bikes to motards and road/trail and then pure off road.
You can change tyres and so on very successfully, especially in the way you are thinking, from knobblies to street and get a height difference - just be careful with wheel changes though as sometimes what is designed for one style is often best to keep, depends on the overall design and manufacturer. The first thing to think of is where and how are you riding. What degree of 'off road', and even if that off road is only now and again, when you do go off-road, do you need a proper off-road design because it is very rough and potholed?
In China most people seem to decide on a dual purpose. This is because of the road conditions. And then they change sprockets/springs/tyres/mufflers/seats to get better 'on road' usage!!!!!! A 'motard' style designed properly could suit you very well : lower, softer but still capable in most off road conditions. But if you want to ride to Tibet, the pure enduro is best.
Do some more reading and keep getting on and off as many different bikes as you can. A good experienced rider is more likely to succeed anywhere, in any conditions on a bike that suits them, than on a bike they don't fit!
Dual sports or Enduro’s are dirt bikes with all the stuff needed to ride them on the street. Headlights, horn….they typically have a 21” front tire and a 18” rear tire. That makes them sit high and they have what is called wide travel and that’s a range of movement between the wheel and the frame. Because as you ride across rough terrain you want travel, you do not ever want the tire hitting the frame.
The Motard is a combination word the Dual Sport/Enduro is basically a Motocross/Dirt Bike and the Motard is word derived from Motocross-Standard. A Standard is a street bike and the Motards have street tires typically 17” front and rear and with less knobs on the tires. That lowers the seat but it does not affect the range of travel, its still wide. But it usually lowers the seat because the distance from the ground to the top of the tire is reduced. They can be ridden off-road but the tires will have less traction.
The Zongshen ZS200GY has a 15” rear and 18” front, which is unusual it has a lower seat height of 31” if it had traditional dirt tires 21” and 18” it would sit higher. You could call it a Motard but its actually in a configuration that is unusual. It is based on a TW200 Yamaha which actually has even smaller fatter tires.
Many dual sports come in a Motard version and yeah the seats height drops on them usually 2-3 inches.
You may need a 29-30” seat height and like it has been said, you will need to ask if it can be lowered if it is not correct for your size.
You know what would be great is if you made a list of your considerations and then sought them out with a camera so we can see what you look at, the prices and all the details.
If you have a budget you may want to consider many options, the Qingqi are good bikes you should go to a dealer that sells them. If you come across other brands then post those as well.
Thanks for the explanation guys, definitely helped clear things up for me.
I have a few questions: is it because bikes require more torque for dirt roads that I often hear people say these bikes have a sensitive throttle? and by softer, do you mean that the throttle is less sensitive?
I think a motard sounds like exactly the thing I am looking for, shall do some research and maybe have a look at some dealers in Shanghai as I will be there tomorrow for a few days.
Does anybody in Shanghai know of a good place to buy helmets, and where the Qingqi dealership is?
Its not just how the throttle works, that can be because they are cheap, or even because they are set to give full power over a half twist in some cases.
By 'softer' I meant it is more how the engine power is available. That power is released through the gears and sprockets to the road more quickly on a dirt bike. Think of a push bike with a set of 10 rear chain sprockets, gears, and how you put it on the biggest rear sprocket to get up a hill. So it is the overall design of the power drive, what gears are made available, what type of clutch response, even what kind of chain! That is why on these pages you see people putting different sprockets on to smooth out the transfer of power to the wheel. Changing tyre size and type also affects that a bit (as well as the feel of the ride as you negotiate bends at speed and so on). It is also carburretor jet and setting choices or on a more modern bike the electronic fuel and ignition control (efi) which replaces the carby. On more expensive bikes, you can even 'dial in' an efi mapping for choice of terrain!
Thats really why I said try and ride a few bikes until one 'feels' right. Not very technical! But it saves you having to learn all this stuff and understand it as a beginner. I don't pretend to know all that much, just enough for me and I ask questions still so you should keep on asking until you have enough worke dout, Plenty here could explain it better than me I am sure.
Choose the right 'kind' of bike, then get the ride height and bar settings correct for comfort and safety. You will handle any throttle easily enough with practise I am sure but some things can be done to smooth out rough edges if you get a bike you feel good on but need to tweak a little. Even different (thinner or thicker) bar grips can alter the throttle response, to your size of hand.
My niece rides an Aprilia road/racer bike through city traffic daily but would soon learn the difference in handling on a dirt bike. And me personally well I came back to riding after a few decades and was shocked at my present lack of skill. I used to ride road bikes anywhere just about through the bush and across paddocks, and could even take a dirt bike up the stairs in a house, skid turn on the landing and roll back down ... if stoned enough!
These days I forget when to change gear on my road/trail bike, often hold the throttle in when I should release it and wonder why the engine is screaming ... and much more stupid stuff. Thank goodness for the clutch lever!
I still think you need to try a few models and designs. How soon do you want to purchase one? Why don't you try and get some of the Shanghai folk here to meet up for a coffee?
Thanks again Jape, really appreciate your contribution!
I started a new thread in the regional section regarding shanghai, i happen to have my camera gear with me so i can go around taking pics of things i liked, as MJH suggested i do.
I don't (as of yet) have a list of considerations, as i'm not really sure whats available out there for chinese-brand bikes.. so far the two i like are the Qingqi and the Zhongshen.. was thinking of looking into Shineray bikes as well..
my aim is to get the bike around March or April, but don't mind taking as much time as i need in order to find the perfect bike :)
Yingang YG150-E aka "Montain King" is quite poular as Tibet road trip pony. http://motorcycle.sh.cn/t_16805663.htm BUT some chinese are wick mind done it on 48cc (Supersignet did own that type of bike :eek2:) http://motorcycle.sh.cn/viewthread.p...uthorid=188840
That’s very good …..first step is to find many locations that sell and service the bikes.
See if you can find the Yinxiang YZ200GY
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y.../YZ200GY-2.jpg
http://www.yinxianggroup.com/
It has a 14" rear tire and 18" front, which should make it have a lower seat height, it also has a 4-valve engine that offer 12kw@7500 rpm, that is very good for a 200cc.
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/[I...113540-LT1.jpghttp://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...113540-LT1.jpg
http://www.yinxianggroup.com/files.u...3113604-LT.jpg
@ Humanbeing: that Yingang is not a very good-looking bike and not really what i'm looking for.. also am not planning any trips by motorcycle to Tibet anytime soon.. but thanks anyway!
i don't think i'll get anything under 200-250cc, and will continue searching for bikes in that range.
@ MJH: i do like the look of that Yinxiang! would it be a similar anomaly as the Zhongshen, as it doesn't really fit into the category of motard or enduro?
i also noticed that the Yinxiang doesn't have a 'wide travel' like the other motards, would that be a problem? the front wheel seems to almost be touching the mud guard or whatever it's called..
That video promo for the Yingang is very well done.
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjAzODY1ODE2.html
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ng/YG200-F.jpg
Not unless you are taking jumps, or ridding very hard and fast on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekkicore