CCW

We should all know that the CCW Hooligan is manufactured by Qingqi and it looks like their next model the ACE may be as well. The other bikes they sell the Heist Bobber and Misfit both are made by Qingqi Rhon so if these companies are not directly affiliated they are now just associated with CCW.

Hooligan
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...W/Hooligun.jpg
Misfit
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...it_web_009.png
Ace
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...d4baa14166.jpg
Heist
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...tjustbike1.jpg

The Hooligan shouldn't cost more than the Qlink xf, unless Qlink no longer will carry them...

OK, looking at their ad--states 250cc which makes it more attractive from a US point of view (our obsession with large capacity bikes) but it shouldn't cost $1k more than the Qlink to get one!

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Originally Posted by culcune

The Hooligan shouldn't cost more than the Qlink xf, unless Qlink no longer will carry them...

OK, looking at their ad--states 250cc which makes it more attractive from a US point of view (our obsession with large capacity bikes) but it shouldn't cost $1k more than the Qlink to get one!

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It's funny how you think 250cc is large....obviously they will be competing on that model if and when they both offer them. The 200cc Qlink has an MSRP of $2,695.00 and they have yet to advertise the 250cc and a price.

I like the Johnny Pag FX-3, and that it’s a twin and has more hp, however it is a bored out 300cc version of a Honda 249cc Rebel engine that’s why they added water cooling.

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ng/FX3_red.jpg

It’s possible to build other bikes around that engine Qingqi has that engine in its 250 air cooled form. In fact if you go to the Qingqi site and look at the image they have for a 250cc cruiser with the twin and oddly has the Lifeng emblem on it, that being the Regal Raptor emblem?

Johhny Pag, Regal Rapture and Lifeng are the same grouping.



The bike can be in this form….
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...rebel001_0.jpg

They all are competing for and on the under 250cc market and it isn’t that big. I wonder if the Dongfang Bobber came to the USA in the same container as the CCW Heist? Eventually the prices will have to go up the Dongfang at $2,000.00 delivered is a baseline as it can’t get any lower in price then that unless the bikes cycle through bankruptcy auctions and that has happened in the past.

Dealer that close have to liquidate and we just seen some of the Qlinks 200cc come through that and both Barnone and JTC got theirs that way and way under MSRP.

So you can get the Bobber direct or through a dealer, the price is not the same obviously and dealers can and do haggle the margin is sectional….think about it.

The dealer adds value now you have set margins $2,000.00 and $3,100.00 that sets a haggle margin of $1,100.00 and in this case a few very real different parts to consider. It all makes me wonder if they choreographed it all? A matter of costs that we do not see dealer costs….bet you could get the Heist for $2,600.00 or so out of a dealer and in that have a real enforceable warranty.

Having no intellectual or exclusive rights makes it all very low priced, cutthroat.

CCW is advertising their Heist at 250cc on their website but Cycle World said it was a 229cc like my Dang Fong. I've asked CCW to clarify.

I paid $2199.99 for the DF delivered to my house in the crate. Like MJH said MSRP for the Heist is $3195 plus dealer fees/shipping(?) so the Heist is quite a bit more for a little nicer bike. How much is a dealer worth? My experience with dealers in the past is not good or worth much. I guess if you could find a good dealer then maybe it is a different story.

The big advantage I see with CCW is that they are going to be 'official' bikes recognized in all 50 states through DOT and even California's CARB (a tough feat). However, 'official' comes with a dealer, and the mark-ups associated with that. I have noticed that Pag's dealer network has severely dried up from a couple of years ago. Probably not a result of their quality or lack of it, but the economy. CCW will go through the same ups and downs. I think that Chinese bikes have tested themselves and the "good" have been weeded out from the "bad" ones, and CCW is going to be the second Chinese sourced companies that play down their Chinese roots (first being Pag). Both companies have created a unique brand rather than simply rebadging others' bikes, although the upcoming Hooligun will be a rebadged Qingqi motard.

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Originally Posted by barnone

CCW is advertising their Heist at 250cc on their website but Cycle World said it was a 229cc like my Dang Fong. I've asked CCW to clarify.

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CCW deleted the question I asked about the 250cc/229cc issue from their forum so I guess that they are misleading the public about the displacement of the Heist just like the drop shippers do on the Dang Fong DF250RTB. I knew I was being mislead thanks to info from this site and the Cycle World article.

From everything that I have been seeing on the Web the 250cc is seeing an almost rebirth in the states with all the inexpensive (relative term) custom bikes.
Kits like the Hardknock 5150 has the 110cc - 250cc, ship in 4 crates and you put it together. kinda like the erector sets I had as a kid. Also the mini 3/4 choppers with the 110cc - 200cc engines and JP with the 300cc as mentioned above. Now we see the DF bobber and chopper with the 229cc engine.
A lot of the attraction of these bikes is that it brings a custom feel at more of an everyman price; the other part is that the 250cc is touted as the bike to get as a beginner.

When my wife and I spoke about me finally getting my first bike, she was leaning on my getting something from the big 5 in the states. Hell she thought I was gonna get an HD Nighttrain. My thoughts were a 1200cc for a guy who's been on again off again from riding, not to mention that it’s been 10yrs since I've been on a Bike, was too much to handle. These 250cc bikes intrigued me because when I went and did the instructor lead MCBC 250 had a nice feel and I was comfortable. none too heavy nice power and let’s face it I want to ride and enjoy. Not peel my flesh away with speed. I spoke to some of the local dealers and was none to impressed with them. All they wanted was to put me in a sport bike or a Cruiser that I felt was too much. I didn’t want a used Bike and deal with someone else's headache.

I did my research online and was initially thinking of getting a scooter to test the waters. My brothers and a few friends beat up on me about it. (They are all HD guys) Then I found the Johnny Pags, Nice looking bike but no one was selling them with a warranty. The Hardknocks 5150 I liked but all said and done was about 4500 USD for 4 crates and a bike you put together yourself, appealing but I don’t have the time for that. Now the CCW was getting a lot of press but I couldn't get CCW on the phone to answer a few questions. there are some things email just won’t do for.
The DF Bobber is on a number of sites, all within the same price range give or take a hundred bucks USD. Looked like the CCW for about 1100 less. same power and features minus the kick start on the DF. Only problem was there is no info on this bike. I called a few friends I have in China and Hong Kong to see what they can find out about it but nothing came of it.

I spoke with a number of guys who I respect and have been riding for years.
It was a my mother's husband and a friend of his, both with 70yrs riding combined under their belt, that convinced me to try the DF Bobber. For 2k it was worth the experiment. I think when I told them the bike was being delivered they were more excited than I was.

What I love about these bikes is that they all have a style I love and reminded me of my grandfather's Bobber. It’s a real retro look.

I have to say this site has proven a useful source of info.

Thank you

The big advantage for me is that CCW is in my city and I can get one relatively easily. However I want a 250cc Suzuki based engine with 20hp that makes me have to have it. I want a Tracker with at least a 32” seat height…

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...oy_yel_450.jpg
I also want a tachometer and a gear indicator display….

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...php?2874-PD250
would some of you USA bunch look into this please hey?

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Originally Posted by Gardo

I spoke with a number of guys who I respect and have been riding for years.
It was a my mother's husband and a friend of his, both with 70yrs riding combined under their belt, that convinced me to try the DF Bobber. For 2k it was worth the experiment. I think when I told them the bike was being delivered they were more excited than I was.

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Wasn't it due at your place today?

Jape i wish but no. March 1st is the expected delivery date.

I thought I read 3 days 3 days ago, sorry. Its afternoon 28th in Aus., so TOMORROW!
Well, it isn't long, even with time-zones and date lines etc. Is it a leap year? :lol8:

Just don't hold your breath - I got weekly updated delivery times from my China bike suppliers 100 km away from me, I actually ordered a Sachs (!) - starting with a week from payment, to 3 weeks, 4 weeks, another week, then a note saying the container hadn't landed, then another month with no answers to my emails and being put off on the phone until I threatened to turn up with biker mates and a shotgun and deal with it face to face. The next day the owner offered me the Kinlon instead. I just said OK and kept my fingers crossed. And even then it was a bad process, but all is well that ends well!

So hopefully you will get yours very soon and all will be great.:thumbsup:

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it was a bad process, but all is well that ends well!

So hopefully you will get yours very soon and all will be great

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From your hands to god's eyes 28hrs and counting :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by MJH

The big advantage for me is that CCW is in my city and I can get one relatively easily.

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MJH,
Since you are local to CCW, go ask them why they are misleading the public on their website about the Heist's engine size.

CCW are just calling it a 250 and that’s nothing new in the industry. Most of the veteran on this site know that the Chinese call all the over 200cc single cylinder engines 250cc, they range from 223cc to 237cc its been discussed to no end in threads since as early as 2008. All of the 250cc ATV and motorcycle that are not sporting a version of the Honda Rebel engine or NX250 water-cooled or the Suzuki 250 are variations of other engines and not actually 250cc. The 18hp rating is not on the CCW site that I have seen, that claim is all over the sites selling the DongFang though.

The engine is rate at 14.5 or about that; 10.5kw @ 8000 rpm, its an OHV and has good low end torque but tops out earlier then a typical 200cc OHC engines. CCW rated it at 12.5 hp at the rear wheel on a Dyno and disclosed that in an interview in Cycle World.

They were told to disclose and also consider better engines…they are on that path so it seems the Hooligan should have the 250cc Suzuki engine that is a OHC 4-valve rated at 20hp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

CCW are just calling it a 250 and that’s nothing new in the industry. Most of the veteran on this site know that the Chinese call all the over 200cc single cylinder engines 250cc, they range from 223cc to 237cc its been discussed to no end in threads since as early as 2008. All of the 250cc ATV and motorcycle that are not sporting a version of the Honda Rebel engine or NX250 water-cooled or the Suzuki 250 are variations of other engines and not actually 250cc. The 18hp rating is not on the CCW site that I have seen, that claim is all over the sites selling the DongFang though.

The engine is rate at 14.5 or about that; 10.5kw @ 8000 rpm, its an OHV and has good low end torque but tops out earlier then a typical 200cc OHC engines. CCW rated it at 12.5 hp at the rear wheel on a Dyno and disclosed that in an interview in Cycle World.

They were told to disclose and also consider better engines…they are on that path so it seems the Hooligan should have the 250cc Suzuki engine that is a OHC 4-valve rated at 20hp.

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I am aware of the practice of calling a model a 250 when it is a smaller size but usually in the specs a reputable company states the real size of the engine.

Those Heiwa's are pretty slick - but do they sell to the US? Even chrome isn't prompting to even translate their site ;)

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Originally Posted by barnone

I am aware of the practice of calling a model a 250 when it is a smaller size but usually in the specs a reputable company states the real size of the engine.

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I agree...sales people? I see a 75-85mph claimed top speed with then a 12 degree incline? Does that mean going down hill? Have you ever worked in sales? Their job is to sell it, that's why I say anyone is not everyone and in that any generic pitch is based on what assumption? I am not always right, nobody is, but for me it is all about specs and if they falsify them it will get pointed out. I stress I do not want "everyone" to avoid a decent product over a issue that would have not otherwise matter to them if it were pointed out to them.

You can edit your comment seems to have plenty of power if you want and also the one relating to my comment on speed and power being a matter of perception "on another thread" if you want.

Who is brainwashed Japper, it ain't me brother.

Like I sai we are moving into an era of open information, changes will by default follow what is relational not rational an in that manipulated through the application of logic, which is a form of manipulation...everyone knows that. lol

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Originally Posted by bighabeeb

Those Heiwa's are pretty slick - but do they sell to the US? Even chrome isn't prompting to even translate their site ;)

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only in Japan and very pricey.

this link is not in Japanese is it? http://www.heiwa-mc.jp/

I would like to see CCW to be a budget minded version of Heiwa and base it's models on customized Chinese manufactured models.

For example Skyteam (china) offers a version of Suzuki’s RV200 also called a VAN VAN…they call it a v-raptor.

The Skyteam bike “note it comes with a OHV 250”
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...tor-noir-3.jpg

The original Suzuki
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...Z_side_520.jpg

The Heiwa version
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...van001_top.jpg

note: the VAN VAN comes with a 200cc same engine used in the Qingqi 200cc. It has slightly more hp then the Chinese OHV 250 used by Skyteam on their V-Raptor.

That looks like that Galaxy bike you wanted to bring in to the US a year or so ago.

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Originally Posted by barnone

MJH,
WTF? You can't answer a simple question?
I'll put you on ignore. Peace.

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Lol, I laughed so very hard after reading this thread and seeing this reply xD Then later I saw Jape's reply about trolls and I could not stop laughing even though I tried xD

This thread has been one of the most entertaining threads I have seen :lol8:

Mo Powa

We like to call her the OHC 250. This motor will continue to be refined, and will be offered on the Hooligun starting in a few months. CCW will push ahead with OHC and soon fuel injection to clean up the exhaust, and give a little more power to the rider.
To be honest it is not easy balancing affordable with higher technology. Many of our customers are asking for high tech motors, bigger displacement, fuel injection, direct injection, etc. The Hooligun will be our test market bike, and we will see how it does. The idea is to keep many of the simple over head valve, pushrod motors in our standard bikes (because they are just dead nuts reliable). In our sport bikes, motards, and adventure bikes, we want to push the bikes a bit more with some more power and advanced solutions.
We hope our customers understand this comes at a slighty higher cost to the consumer.

These found their way to the market under the SSR brand.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...0_144013-M.jpg

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Originally Posted by culcune

That looks like that Galaxy bike you wanted to bring in to the US a year or so ago.

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The SUV250 is the Galaxy motorcycle, I believe that Yinhe is a company that CCW could work with. The previous post is of a motorcycle manufactured by Skyteam similar but not the same.

Galaxy is a subsidiary of Yinhe.

I like very much that CCW company. They are doing great looking bikes and appear to have some real love for bikes. I wish all the best for them!

It will be a case of convincing the US (primarily, although they are setting up shop in Europe, too) to pay $3k USD for what the US public might perceive as $2k USD bikes.

I think some people will pay the difference. I've never seen the CCW bobber in person but it appears to be fancier than my Dang Fong.

Look at all the BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus,etc running around. Plus if it is a good dealer then there is a lot of value to some people.

Good luck to CCW and I hope they make it. It's the next step in the evolution of Chinese cycles.

MJH,
In the graph from CCW looks like the 250cc engine is almost 20 HP and the lesser engine(s) are the 229cc(?) at about 16HP. I assume those are crank figures and not rear wheel numbers.

More from your salesmen (that you allow to stretch the truth) about USA production of these bikes.:lol8:

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Originally Posted by barnone

MJH,
In the graph from CCW looks like the 250cc engine is almost 20 HP and the lesser engine(s) are the 229cc(?) at about 16HP. I assume those are crank figures and not rear wheel numbers.

More from your salesmen (that you allow to stretch the truth) about USA production of these bikes.:lol8:

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It makes me think that the quote in Cycle World should have read 12.5kw and not 12.5hp?
I'd say that if the data came off a Dyno it's reading off the rear wheel.

Born of fire gets baptized in fire....bet they felt a bite in the crotch over the $2,000.00 DF as soon as one person brings over a model the near exact same bike comes over with a discount. The bobber is too simple and too common not to be easily copied...

I am waiting on a model I like with the Suzuki OHC...