Sorry for my bad grammar and now my nonconstructive comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
Gees you are touchy your holiness.
I'll be sure to not add to a thread I started.
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Sorry for my bad grammar and now my nonconstructive comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
Gees you are touchy your holiness.
I'll be sure to not add to a thread I started.
havent read the whole thread yet but this bit caught my eye
"Cars are for important people and the price must be paid, while motorcycles are for the poor, for farmers, for unimportant people and hence are a serious nuisance to the important people."
not so, now even the poor can buy a new car for 20,000 RMB,,, some of us here pay more than that for our bikes...
but the fact that they have a car normally makes them very arrogant. chinese people who have a car believe they are king of the road and everyone else should see them coming and give way to them.
also i have been told by my students that when their mother or whoever couldnt pass their driving license, they paid someone to go and do it in their place. so there are many car drivers who shouldnt be on the road and yet are because they had a helping hand.
ebikes need no license... this is a BIG BIG problem in china, they graduate from a bike that does 10kph and go to a ebike where they dont have to even pedal or be awake and go 60kph.
also many chinese have NO road safety sense at all. (im married to one of these people, how she lived this long without a minder is beyond me)
now to even the odd's, im not a great driver my self, i have got my self into situations that i regret (no damage but have almost become road jam on more than one occasion)
there is a chinese saying 'there is no medicine for stupidity' when ever (almost daily) someone forces me to brake hard or swerve fast into an area that i havent checked in my mirror or require a new set of pants that i dont think that line to my self, normally i also say it. sometimes, when im in a bad mood i will follow them until they stop at a red light and park up by their window and stair at the driver while shaking my head, if i can get in front of the car and 'accidentally' stall the bike and require a kick start to get it moving again, all the better. unfortunily most of these people who cause me to swear under my breath are the eldely on foot / peddle bike, the young on scooters / foot or the middle aged on scooters doing something very stupid.
from my own experiences, the taxi motorbikes are actually some of the best drivers on the road... with the exception of driving at 10 miles per hour while chatting on the phone about things hes forgotten or people he needs to pick up. but i have over taken a police motorbike with 2 cops on it, the driver with one hand on the throttle the other on a phone chatting away oblivious to everyone else. How i would have loved to have gotten a photo of that...
better read the rest of the thread now...
RANT OVER...
I also noticed this
"This year, traffic accidents involving bikes, mopeds and scooters have accounted for 269 deaths, more than 40 percent of all traffic fatalities in Shanghai. In most cases, riders should have borne at least as much responsibility as vehicle drivers, say police. Some officers worry that the situations "are getting worse.""
so that means that 60 percent of traffic fatalities in shanghai are from cars and trucks????
damn, safer to have a bike after all.
OK here is some statistics from Australia I'd say it is inherently more dangerous riding a motorcycle in China than Australia plus you have to do a rather rigorous rider training course in Australia before you get your motorcycle license.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
"Professor Harrison said motorbike riding was increasingly popular, although this form of transport was 10 times more dangerous than traveling in a vehicle in terms of serious injury risk."
http://smh.drive.com.au/roads-and-tr...617-20id7.html
I don't know why I got this notification but the reason most people say why m/cycles are banned from Chinese cities is the amount of illegal business carried out.. Illegal taxis and theft.. mostly handbag snatching. Actually there is no law stating that scoots cannot go on expressways but they are banned by local provincial gvt. Draconian.. nope.. that is some bollox from startreck. Most decent hotels also ban motorcycles.. Pisses me off when my mates and I turn up to spend our money with the snobs and our m/cycles are worth a lot more than the average quality car but hell.. morons exist in all walks of life.
To comment on a comment just now... It doesn't matter how "proficient" you are on two wheels. There is a fecundity of fk~wits here. I've been scooting in China for 16 years and apart from the silly little kisses, only had one major.. If I had not been experienced I'd probably be dead but I've seen a few corpses of experienced bikers.. If your number is on it, your'e stuffed.
This weekend see you all in Hefei.. There will be a lot of bikers, sadly mostly BMW but you never know.. there may be some real people to!
There are likely more motorcycle riders in china then there are people in Australia.
Australia’s population is about 23 million, what percentage ride?
Every country would theoretically have a number, a percentages that ride and propensity for those to be ridding, could call it a percentage of on the road time. In a 24hr period, daily how much time is spent on two wheels.
I hypotheses that china is much higher, with more people ridding and more often, much more often then in Australia and in much denser traffic.
In the USA there were 4,500 fatalities involving motorcycles last year, around 80-90,000 accident per year.
There are 311 million people in the USA.
Compared to 8500 accidents in Australia, that’s ten percent of the US statistic, roughly. Based on the populations Australia has a higher rate then the USA. You are more likely to be in an accident and more likely for it be a fatality. The 2,057 fatalities would be a guess per year in Australia based on the 9 month 1543 actual the article states.
23 million 2,057 annual fatalities AUS
311 million 4,500 annual fatalities. USA
Unless there is much more of the population ridding motorcycle in Australia then in the USA, and that higher percentage also rides more often, then the riders in the USA do, its much more dangerous to ride in Australia then in the USA.
once again big drama out along Hongmei Road (near the bar / restaurant street) this morning, lot's of bike confiscated......
This happens everywhere. You can usually get your bike out of the Gong An vehicle jail for 300-500 yuan, minus the gasoline in the tank too, yes actually the police are thieves! So you think huh? Some of the bikes are legally plated WTF why are they on the back of that is this truck? That's because there was one legal omission in the paperwork, no insurance or driving license. It's not about safety as a smuggle-imported un-plated scooter is just as likely taken away as a legal Honda with lapsed insurance. This is what happens to your bike if you aren't legal and don't have money or guanxi (usually migrant workers) and is probably about 5% of all the bikes stopped that day. Most of the people pay off the cop parked just out of view around the corner, or phone a cop friend and play their 'get out of jail free' card.
Likely the bikes confiscated and on the back of the tow truck pictured above, either didn't have paid up 3rd party insurance (compulsory) or else the bikes inspection were out of date. I note that the bike second in closest to the truck cab still has a the typical dealers advertising placard in situ. For those outside China, this dealer "placard" should not be confused with a dealers license or registration plate, since these do not exist in China (yet). Also it bears worth remembering that police have little hand held portable data terminals that they can and do use to search a given vehicles particulars in real time. I've seen in it in action being used at controlled intersections, compulsory check points, by a cop walking a long a line of parked cars, and one time when I stopped on the side of the road in front of a patrol car. The one cop in the car proceeded to get out of the passengers seat (while his colleague was in shop) come up behind me while I was still sitting on the bike and watched what he was doing he input my plate details into his hand held data terminal. He then came up to me and wanted to see my driver license etc. No worries - all legal. Of course I could have ridden off since they hardly ever do pursuits here, though I have seen it done one time, but since I was all legal I had no reason to run.
If its lapsed inspection or insurance then it's a case of paying the fine & remedying what needs to be done too, and then said bike will be released.
Interesting.
There is some big gov't mtg about to happen in Beijing (September/October), so we're back in crackdown mode. The Chinese motorcycle forums in Beijing are exploding with stories of police checks, seizures, etc. Interestingly, Beijing TV ran some news reports earlier this week about the "serious problem" with illegal bikes in Beijing. Essentially, the report was saying that because it has become so difficult to plate a car in Beijing (>1 million hopefuls in the plate lottery this month, vying for 20,000 plates), people are purchasing bikes. When the reporter interviewed a police official, he said "the illegal bike problem has become difficult because those people who ride illegal bikes are also the people who are breaking the laws and making it dangerous on the roads."
Yesterday was one of the rare days I drove my car. I crawled past two motorcycle check points (one can only crawl in a car in Beijing). I couldn't really see what was going on, but I did notice several unhappy faces in the assembled crowd.
I wish my Chinese language ability was better - using Chrome translator, it seems that there has been a spike in negative posts about a "foreigner on an illegal bike" pervading the Chinese forums. Can't blame them, actually. I often see unplated R9s, with an unhelmeted foreigner riding like crazy in the emergency lanes of the Ring Roads. Pisses me off, too. Those morons are F'ing it up for the rest of us ... but I am sure they think they are the coolest, most bad-ass rider ever.
Sigh, where's my blood pressure meds?
^LJH, I can relate to what you are saying about foreigners feeling some form or "misguided" sense of entitlement. Ironically most of us foreigners complain about the double standards, yet sometimes we're not just victims of it, but the perpetrators too.
I ride often and sometimes do so faster than the masses. When I chose to ride faster than the majority of the flow of traffic or the masses as it were, I do so for a multitude of reasons; whether it be to avoid being coated by diesel fumes, dirt, dust off the truck/bus (insert your vehicle of choice here) ahead, or else other road related debris (spray from vehicles when its wet/raining), or else to avoid some other potential road hazard seen ahead or predicted well in advance. I ride and drive using the 11 second rule as well as the oval bubble. Advanced driving techniques taught while in the fire and ambulance services in NZ, techniques developed from the London Police.
When I am riding/driving faster than the average it generally isn't by much (just enough to stay ahead), and the chosen speed is condition appropriate 99% of the time. I also try where possible to be courteous without being subservient. Where there are traffic lights I will stop, and even on the occasions where I ride through a red (usually at night or out in the semi rural areas/small towns etc plus keep in mind I don't live in a major city), I slow down to a crawl first or make a complete stop to make sure the way is clear. Most of the time I do stop at red traffic signals (especially in cities, or during the day) and am passed by other riders who don't and some don't even slow down!
When I know I am travelling faster than the speed posted, I take all necessary steps to avoid triggering speed or red light cameras so that I don't become another motorcycle speeding statistic which might be the penultimate deciding factor the regulators use to decide it is time to start enforcing speed and red light infringements on motorcycles.
I exercise my right to use my brain in a logically linear fashion not just for my own sake but with other riders and road users in mind. Not something so easy to do all the time here in PRC (TIC).
Oh and one last thing, I always use the horn as a warning device (upgraded to loud on all my vehicles in PRC), all the time... sorry if YMMV but it has saved my arse countless times. I swear by this method... use the horn when passing, attempting to pass, approaching intersections especially uncontrolled ones, when approaching side roads/lanes, whenever I pass ebikes, scooters, cyclists, basically any other road user, and especially on twisty mountain or rural roads even they may appear to be deserted.
Totally agree! People who have ridden with me comment "Sh1t, I thought you were supposed to be Mr Safety Instructor! You ride so damn fast, sometimes!" Yeah, well, I want to stay away from those man-eating sharks (aka cars, buses, trucks). I'm always looking for a spot where nobody is around me. In China, where the average driver doesn't care a rat's-ass about road-sharing, or is too busy texting on their mobile, I don't want to be a little bug. And, you are also right on about the horns. I wish I could figure out how to put one of those truck air horns on my bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
Attachment 8512
HOG Shanghai board has / had a thread about a crack down on all type of bikes in Shanghai area till 31st.October, better to be fully legal.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
Quite a common sight with teenagers around the international schools in Minhang / Qingpu districts (Shanghai). friggin' w@nkers......Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
Here's the BTV report (motorcycle part starts at about 4:00 in)
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDQ0NjkzNjA0.html
(sorry, for some reason I can't get it to embed)
HB ... my hero! Thanks :thumbsup:
Beijing Strike Hard Motorbike Campaign: http://www.bjjtgl.gov.cn/publish/por.../info40673.htm
http://translate.google.com
Traffic police stopped and confiscated a lot of bikes and scooters at the big intersection near The Den (Sanlintun Beijing) last night.
This is a more serious "campaign" than I have seen before. However, it is apparently only for a month.
my sources, warned me last week that traffic police all over China are have a motorcycle/scooter targeted enforcement leading up to and continuing through the whole month of October. That meant it already started and won't end til October 31st.
Confirmation that the same thing is going on in xi'an right now; 60 day campaign to rid the streets of basically anything on 2 wheels. I've even seen ebikes being confiscated...
There must be some serious 'tension' in view of this shift of government that's happening soon for the people to need a big distraction like this.
Frankly, I hope it is 600 days or, better, permanent ... but the Beijing government's posting says it will be a 30 day crackdown. Whatever.
However, it seems that a few police are getting a little overzealous. Lots of strange cases being reported. For example, you know how we mount the front plate on the right fork? Well, apparently that is illegal. The plate should be mounted facing forward. The police are handing out 200 rmb fines and 6 points! Needless to say, this has caused more than one "objection" over on the Chinese forums.
Also, know the road tax book? (maybe this is only a Beijing thing) Apparently, that is supposed to be carried with you, at all times. No tax book? 200 rmb & 3 points.
Two-year inspection sticker? It must be properly mounted, in accordance with the supposed guidelines (nobody really knows what those guidelines are). 200 rmb, 3 points.
I'm afraid to check my plates online - damn, I've probably racked up thousands in fines and so many points since this crackdown began a week ago, I'll be spending months being re-educated in Traffic School.
Yeah, permanent, but rational. What a dreamer I am.
PS: And they're also going after shops. I visited Beijing's largest retail outlet today, and the owner told me that he has stopped mounting rear racks, bags, windscreens, or any other "unauthorized modification" because he's afraid of being heavily fined or, worse, shut down.
Correction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
The motorcycle crackdown, in Beijing, is for the month of September. But the illegal plate crackdown runs until October 31. I think that is primarily on cars. Here's a report on the Beijing TMB notice:
Aug 20, 2012Chinese authorities on Monday launched a national campaign to combat violations of motor vehicle license plate regulations.
The campaign, which will last until October 31, will focus on the forging or illegal alteration of license plates, as well as the use of false plates and driving while intentionally covering license plates, according to a statement issued by the traffic management bureau of the Ministry of Public Security.
During the campaign, police will also target violations concerning the illegal "cloning" of others' plates or driver's licenses.
Motorists should report incidents in which they receive tickets for violations they have obviously not committed to local authorities in order to help police find "cloned" plates, the statement said.
Police will raid and shut down facilities used to produce and sell false plates, the statement said, adding that unlicensed drivers and people who drive with false licenses will be punished.
Police will strictly punish violators, with punishments including the confiscation of their cars and plates, as well as criminal penalties, the statement said.
source: http://www.bjjtgl.gov.cn/publish/por.../info40612.htm
just got an email from the biker guys in Hangzhou.....
Hi Bros, Sis!
Traffic police all over China have started motorcycle targeted enforcement campaign. Started in beginning of Sep and it will continue until end of October. According to mychinamoto forum target is to "get rid the streets of anything on 2 wheels".
"Full action, the entire police force of law enforcement and zero tolerance to combat. "
Best case you got ton of "points" and 200 RMB fine...worse case your bike is confiscated on the spot and you get government funded intensive language training behind bars. I am not sure whether during the campaign "you are laowai they will not stop you" magic works in the city center of HZ.
Better keep driving licenses and motorcycle registration papers with you all time.
Check that you compulsory traffic insurance is valid.
Check that bi-annual road-worthy inspection is done. (at least Shanghai A-plate requires this. How about QDH or HZ plates?)
Avoiding restricted roads (btw, good part of G320 is restricted...)
"In the the motorcycle illegal remediation mid, I earnestly summarize Bureau for motorcycle remediation, to take five measures, concentration and control of the motorcycle drink driving, driving without a license, without a license on the road, are not required to install the license plate, illegal entering the Restriction area, as well as illegal modifications, not the annual inspection, do not wear helmets, new lights cross the line and other illegal activities."
Here is the link to the translated article: http://translate.google.com.hk/translate?tl=en&u=http://www.bjjtgl.gov.cn/publish/portal0/tab41/info40673.htm
The front plate on the right fork which is approved by the Traffic Bureau, who basically are police is illegal now!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
Tax book, what tax book?
As I've said before, "Actual law enforcement! What a concept!"
I really wonder what's got the bee in their bonnet about motorcycles. What about the myriad other forms of scofflaw behavior, including overloaded electric three-wheel haulers, all manner of dodgy eBikes held together by little more than packing tape, vastly overloaded trucks, industrial vehicles with THEIR plates missing or concealed, cars with doctored plates or "reflective" countermeasures that defy cameras, etc, etc.
Those of use who are legal should not hesitate to ride, and be sure to be polite and friendly to the cops, who have been tasked with a dangerous and thankless task.
For those of us who are not legal, this might be high time to get yourself legal.
Cheers
Another thing: I've seen reference to a registration sticker that I assume is supposed to go on our rear plate. I recently re-registered, but don't remember anything about a sticker.
cheers
Euphonius or sanctimonious?Quote:
Those of use who are legal should not hesitate to ride, and be sure to be polite and friendly to the cops, who have been tasked with a dangerous and thankless task.
For those of us who are not legal, this might be high time to get yourself legal.
Barry the tax book, is a small little blue book (tiny little thing it is) with several small pages in it. It outlines that tax was paid from memory. I have mine so if need be I can get one of them and will scan and upload a copy if anyone wants to see what it looks like.
Euphonius, I also just had my 2 yearly re-inspection done on one bike and never got a sticker. There used to be a sticker that was a little (approx 25mm x 20mm) diamond shape sticker with a different colour border & background for each year and then in the body of the sticker would be the year of issue. That was the case down in Zhejiang, though as usual this may vary depending on which little empire one is located. The said sticker would fade over time though and depending on use offered little after many months exposure to the elements and cleanings. Can't recall for sure but I think that the sticker was for insurance and was meant to be applied and therefore displayed on the rear license plate. I'm certain the sticker was not for inspection. Regardless I haven't had a sticker issued for ages, and I just renewed the insurance one week ago today. Neither inspection nor insurance renewal did I receive any sticker. I will go look through my bike bag I have sitting in my bike I rode to my workplace today to double check that.
Interestingly though is many bikes have a designated or fabricated place for attaching the front plate to the right hand front fork. Perhaps it is simply a de-facto standard that each manufacturer have adopted over time, that has slowly been accepted by all and sundry as the standard when perhaps the rules clearly outline something different. Oddly though, the bike that was just reinspected which has the plate on the right fork, wasn't pulled up for having the plate located there. Some bikes offer little option in that regard, and two of my bikes fit into that category where there is no sensible alternative for mounting the front plate.
Great name for a band!Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/im...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by euphonius http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/im...post-right.png
Another thing: I've seen reference to a registration sticker that I assume is supposed to go on our rear plate.
they came in many different variations over the years in Shanghai, haven't seen them for awhile, attached a pic of my old CJ750 plate.....