250rtc engine/carb problem

barnone what do you think about this?
I was riding again purposely at the breaking point except this time as soon as I started to get the engine chugging I managed to pull the clutch in and keep it revving at 2000 rpms and pull over on the road and keep it running. Some how miraculously it was able to hold it idles but at a lot lower than what it should have been, 1500-1600, and the engine had been pretty hot and warmed up. Usually the bike was riding with cold 1750 hot 1900 but for some reason when the engine started chugging it then lowered to an idle of 1500. Now the wierd part is I was able to keep it idling for some 30 seconds but as soon as I touched the throttle the engine shut off. Does this point to an electrical problem?

"Now the wierd part is I was able to keep it idling for some 30 seconds but as soon as I touched the throttle the engine shut off. Does this point to an electrical problem?"
That sounds like a carburetor problem to me.
Have you had the carb apart?

"I was riding again purposely at the breaking point except this time as soon as I started to get the engine chugging"
So you can duplicate the problem by riding at the breaking point? What exactly is the "breaking point"?

I thought you were told you had bad coil, a bad coil can destroy an engine!

Replace the coil, I would not be riding until you get it, the overheating is do to a bad coil.

Get the new coil and then go from there.

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Originally Posted by barnone

"Now the wierd part is I was able to keep it idling for some 30 seconds but as soon as I touched the throttle the engine shut off. Does this point to an electrical problem?"
That sounds like a carburetor problem to me.
Have you had the carb apart?

"I was riding again purposely at the breaking point except this time as soon as I started to get the engine chugging"
So you can duplicate the problem by riding at the breaking point? What exactly is the "breaking point"?

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unfortunately not the whole thing,
and yes I can duplicate it whenever I want, 2 ways of doing it.
1. ride for over 2 hours, this is not the best way however
2. this works every time I do it: ride the bike for something like 30 minutes. Park the bike and leave it sitting up to like 1-2 hours. Then start it up and ride until it breaks which is 2-7 minutes, this always gets me to the "breaking point"

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Originally Posted by MJH

I thought you were told you had bad coil, a bad coil can destroy an engine!

Replace the coil, I would not be riding until you get it, the overheating is do to a bad coil.

Get the new coil and then go from there.

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Yea but I got told from a sketchy scooter shop that only worked on the bike for 30 minutes for only $20. To be honest I dont trust them because I then took it to another mechanic and checked myself and the coil had good readings, between 2 and 4 ohms like scooterdepot told me

Your symptoms sound like my Honda VT500FT coil problem. The coils were located over the engine under the tank. Only failed during a long ride at high speed when the engine is putting out a lot of heat.

Is the coil located over the engine so it gets the full engine heat? I have found that ohm readings are not that reliable on a coil that is breaking down due to heat.

I'd buy an inexpensive coil and try it.

Yes it is located right over it. Where could I find a coil that might fit on this bike? Is the only difference between coils the wire connections? Ive been looking for a new coil but just dont know too much about tehm

What will changing the coil do however? IF its in the same position won't it soon develop the same problem?

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Originally Posted by mattbujor

What will changing the coil do however? IF its in the same position won't it soon develop the same problem?

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Hey, I am not guaranteeing this is your problem but you gotta do something...

Hopefully it's just a defective coil. Might develop the same problem but at least you would know. Then you could relocate it somewhere else.

Lots of inexpensive coils on Ebay at

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from..._id=1078622241

You need to match it up.

Or get one from scooter depo if you have a lot of patience.

Or match it up at a local shop.

That seem high too me, I would expect 0.5 -1.5 ohms on the primary or something like that, then you need to also test the ground which should be much higher 6-13 thousands Ohms. It can test fine that being within that range, but still be failing under load. There is no way to easily test the coil yourself under load, you would just replace it if it is suspect and the specific ratings should be provided by the manufacturer.

Here is a generic one.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015MEGZ2/...SIN=B0015MEGZ2

Just a little FYI..... I had a Chevrolet car with a coil in the distributor, and I began having issues JUST LIKE YOU ARE DESCRIBING!!! I used to have to pull over and let the coil cool down, and I changed it and wha-laah! FIXED! You could very well have a coil issue. Check your plug firing and see if its strong when it acts up. Check it when its NOT acting up, and you should be able to tell then. I hope you get it fixed.

well today I went to a scotter mechanic that at first refused to work on the bike but after a little talking he agreed to. After he was done he told me I was having an electrical failure and that I would need a new stator. I asked him to point to where the stator was and he pointed to the cranckcase cover. I havent talked to scooterdepot yet because they were closed but what are your opinions on this? He said the carb was good and that there was no need for a valve adjustment.

If it was my bike, I would try a new coil before I replaced the stator. I not heard of any stator failures on the CG250 on the DF or the Heist but it could be the problem.

You could post a picture of the stator and also the coil, both can be removed easily.

You should ask for a wiring diagram and also a parts book from the manufacturer….do not assume they do not have one, maybe they do?

Then if they tell you they do not have one then ask them if they think that is ok? I would love to hear what their answer would be.

Both of the parts delivered would be nice, testing both a stator and coil is pretty straight forward, but both can also react to heat so you could take a hair dryer to them and see if the resistance changes, when they are hot.

Did you ask the mechanic what the readings were? Did you ask him how many winding it has, number of wires and bolts? That may have been a bit more of a test of legitimacy then where is it…or didn’t you know?

well they have an internet parts book:
http://onlineshowroom.sunnymotor.com...s_list.html#f1 same for the bobber

yea thats what I am trying to get from them, currently on hold with the manager due to problems with one of their employess telling me a bulb is only a cosmetic thing.
I saw him take apart everything, the stator I have no idea what he did to it but for the coil he showed me that it was out of range, .9 not in range of 2-4 ohms, only thing is replacing it might not prove the to correct the problem as I didnt really see him inspect the other electronics

Where are you getting the 2-4 ohms from as range, the stator reading .9 does not bother me, it seem right were it should be .5 -2 ohms. Above that or below that would mean a bad stator.

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pd...ng-diagram.pdf

Here is good flow chart for trouble shooting, it’s a good reference to have when communicating with a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by MJH

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pd...ng-diagram.pdf

Here is good flow chart for trouble shooting, it’s a good reference to have when communicating with a mechanic.

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thanks for this, also for the .9 ohms it was a reading for the coil, the stator reading I was not told and didnt have the numbers from scooterdepot.
the 2-4 ohms was for the coil

I would also think that .9 is within the range of resistance on the ignition coil, they have low number typically .5-1.5 ohms.


But if the manufacturer has higher numbers then …well you would like to rely on those values, but the Chinese factor and who is selling the bikes as well all plays into that.


They should be able to send you out both, neither part is expensive.

Then take it back to the mechanic and have him install them and retest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

I would also think that .9 is within the range of resistance on the ignition coil, they have low number typically .5-1.5 ohms.


But if the manufacturer has higher numbers then …well you would like to rely on those values, but the Chinese factor and who is selling the bikes as well all plays into that.


They should be able to send you out both, neither part is expensive.

Then take it back to the mechanic and have him install them and retest.

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exactly what I plan to do, unfortunately I am having problems with scooterdepot so I will get back to you guys and let you what happens

this may also help, http://www.dansmc.com/cdiignition.htm just for a general overview of the ignition system.

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Originally Posted by MJH

this may also help, http://www.dansmc.com/cdiignition.htm just for a general overview of the ignition system.

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read it all, amazing stuff he has. So first I should have checked the spark to see where the problem was coming from as barnone stated

Yep,
I think I asked you twice to get one of those spark testers at Harbor Freight.:lol8:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...image_1082.jpg
First thing I check.

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Originally Posted by barnone

Yep,
I think I asked you twice to get one of those spark testers at Harbor Freight.:lol8:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...image_1082.jpg
First thing I check.

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so I should go out and ride until I get the problem, then hook up the tester and then what? What should I look for? Whats the proper procedure?

also guys when inspecting the spark plug if too white or powdered running lean, if too black its too rich right? any guides you guys use for this?

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Originally Posted by mattbujor

so I should go out and ride until I get the problem, then hook up the tester and then what? What should I look for? Whats the proper procedure?

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Matt,
I and others have been trying to advise you for a week or more but you seem to ignore our suggestions.

You should look for a spark in the clear plastic bulb of the spark tester. If no spark then you have an electrical problem. What the fuck do you think a spark tester is for?

Not to be mean but you seem like you should not own a Chinese motorcycle since they require some basic mechanical/electrical skills to maintain them. You should buy a bike from a local trusted dealer that can maintain your motorcycle.

You are not pulling our leg are you? Trolling?

barnone no lol, no troll, and hey just trying to get the proper procedure, and yes I actually do have a mechanical tendency, not going to give you my degree and graduate school but yes, I think I do hold a little knowledge ( sarcastic voice ).
But back to the spark tester, any type of misifiring or say there is a spark but very weak, type of thing I should know?

It would not be the first time a character has been created on this website. The site administrator should be able to see the IP servers that any member signs on with, if they see that certain screen names share a common host server, then you can be pretty sure it is one person. That being one person using multiple screen names.

I do not do that, never have, never will.

This site likely has very few people posting out of one regional area, servers are all identifiable as they have physical locations. My host server is out of Broadview Heights Ohio always. If I check my IP, online it will show a host server named SBC Global and its location is in Broadview Heights. The software maps that offer a location pin use that, not your home address, that is private, but the physically location of the server that provides your IP address.

If I was to make a guess about Matt Bujor, mine would have been that he was a Romanian immigrant living in south Florida? If was to guess what school he was attending I would have guessed a community college and taking classes in English as a second language?

mattbujor, what was the outcome??