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G'Day,
We had to re-charge some ETC cards and our logistics manager tried very hard to apply for a ETC unit for my legal plated (Shanghai "A" ergo) motorbike, no go!
Yes, they explained at length that a Ducati is quite capable to keep up with the traffic flow on the Chinese expressway system...........
Working on the issue from every angle but only time will tell, we should try with a big group of legal plated bikes to enter the expressway one day!
In Taiwan, they have a change over point of 550cc.Quote:
Originally Posted by soberpete
Why 550cc? No idea.
Even there the highways are a no-go for big bikes, but many other roads, forbidden for anything below 550cc, are open for the big bikes.
Indeed along the lines of thinking of Soberpete.
From the entrance with the most number of entrance gates, and each try to enter from a different one!Quote:
Originally Posted by TB-Racing
Hmm... this could be an interesting idea. A protest of some sort:naughty:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
If we all banded together in the dozens, perhaps bringing along our Chinese motorcycle riding friends also, and all boarded our local expressways at say 12 noon (when they're all changing shifts for lunch).
Not just one group in one area, but multiple groups in areas all over China simultaneously. It might even get on the news, especially if we had a friend or two who were reporters who came along for the ride:riding:.
Oh dear, that could turn out to be messy. I've a feeling that if it did get on the news that hundreds of bikers all over mainland China simultaneously forced their way onto the expressways then it could get ugly quickly: Ahem!... Tien*nmen Squ*re. I need a smiley of a tank running over an innocent motorcyclist.
Still, this isn't as sensible as TB-Racings idea of the legally plated group of big bikes who stop at the gate and ask nicely...
'big goup of bikes' sorry not 'group of big bikes'.
I think that trying to get onto the freeway is the wrong approach. Maybe a manufacturer Harley/Honda/Ducati/Yamaha/Benelli etc backed collaborative attempt at a different plate option for bikes over a certain size that can keep above minimum speeds on freeways, but PAY for the privilege, could be set at 150, 200, 250 500, or 600cc, even better could just be set over maybe 15-30KW engine power or something. I've long thought that a blue plate for bikes or even another color could be an option. Most people who use motorcycles a a cheap mode of transport would stay cheap with no plate or yellow plates, but if you were serious about riding you would pay for a more expensive blue plate and then be able to use main parts of roads and freeways and get better insurance because you have paid for this optional more expensive registration fee.
This might work, because if you allow a bike onto a freeway they worry about letting old farmer Wang and his 100cc step-through plus vegetables on too, who would cause havoc. No blue plate, no go, simple enough to work and enforce. Plus extra revenue for the government, the idea has possibilities. Although I doubt that the demand amongst the locals is quite enough to make this happen yet.
Assuming you could ride the expressways legally, how would this change your riding? For example, what trips would you make if you were allowed on the highways that you wouldn't choose to make otherwise? I'm thinking it would be easy to cruise to Huangshan or 1000 Island Lake, heck even make it to the beautiful areas of south Zhejiang province from Shanghai.
The expressways have the main advantage of fast traffic flow with little obstructions, and they are safer. The surface roads seems to take 1.5 times longer, even more, and there is more danger with more obstacles to avoid.
Another way to look at it, would you still make the long-distance trips if restricted to surface roads? It seems that the majority of ride reports on this forum involve exactly that and it's a reality that most have accepted, however begrudgingly.
On the other hand, there is practically zero risk of being stopped by the police with unplated bikes or fake plated bikes if taking surface roads. The tradeoff seems to be you can ride wherever you want illegally, but the expressways are truly off limits.
Good points Steve. The expressways would be mostly useful for a high average speed, convenience and 'safety' TIC but not much fun; I personally enjoy twisty mountain roads more than anything. Simply having access to the expressways would be a valuable thing though.
I commute 160km from Zibo, where I work, to Mengyin, where my wife and baby live, almost every Friday then 160km back again on Sunday morning. The only reason I take the bus in the winter is because it's too cold to ride; in the summer I take the bike down the surface roads each time except on weekends with heavy rain. The ride isn't all great but I love to ride, it has plenty of fun parts, it costs less in petrol than the bus tickets do, it's faster than the bus is and it saves me from a coach often laden with things I find very annoying:
-Beijing opera and Chinese comedy on the TV at full volume
-People snoring, farting and burping as loud as the TV or louder
-People answering their phones and talking so loud that you could hear from 100ft away.
-People who's phones begin to ring and they just look at it for a while; they don't pick up or silence the ringing, they just stare at it while it rings with a really horrible ring tone for what seems like an eternity :eek2:.
This isn't my country. I respect most of the traditions here but the ones above and things that I'll never get used to.
Basically, getting my motorbike on the expressway for this commute would be lovely; almost door to door even.
It's good to have access to the expressways, if they can get you to the twisties faster. So you can spend more time in the enjoyable areas.
While i'm doubtless that every recreational biker in china would appreciate the use of expressways, i think it would change some people's lives more than others. Eg:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
- For the shanghai bikers, being allowed on the Hangzhou Bay bridge would put zhejiang province's great mountain roads within a couple of hours' riding.
- For us in Xi'an, we're 25km away from the base of the Qinling massif which i'm discovering to be an amazing playground. I'd have no use for expressways even if they were open to me.
Still, it'd be nice to have the option...
G'Day,
Would be brilliant to be allowed on the expressways in greater Shanghai region and blast up to Beijing or over to Shandong, Zhejiang, Jiangsu, etc....
Like today, had a lunch meeting in Suzhou and would have been great to go one way on the expressway and play around through the country side the other way.
Now, around Kunshan area (country side - not city district) they restrict road use to Kunshan plated bikes.... what's next in this lovely country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I'm thinking this will be the way forward but I don't like just sitting around and hoping. What can be done to speed things up?
If you really wanted to effect change try contacting http://www.caam.org.cn in both English and Chinese. Explain your proposal that some certain kinds bikes be able to be registered the same as cars with the same costs as a privileges including freeway use. Explain how legal recreational motorcycling is different to purely utilitarian transport and illegal riding. Suggest this idea could be trialled in Shandong or Jiangsu provinces. Contact big companies who make money from motorcycling for support and make an organization or add your name to one that already exists. Use your western face, Chinese speaking ability and time. Talk about how wonderful China is, and how you love safe legal motorcycling and condemn illegal riding and try to get on TV whist trying to make motorcycling seem wholesome, use Han Han's Nescafe as your model......and so on.
:lol8:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
It sounds like a plan.
There are many members on this site. We should begin by trying to rally as many of them up as we can *Strength in numbers*.
I have some contacts who might be able to get me on TV. I'll begin looking into that.
Shall I create a thread named something like "Lobby for motorcycle rights to the expressway"?
I'm not the best at thinking up the most attractive names but we need something that will catch everyone's attention.
Perhaps ChinaV or Jape can help put a big notice up on the site somewhere.
...just some of my thoughts.
G'Day,Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
As far as I know HD China, HD Asia-Pacific and HD USA headquarter tried that approach (incl. very high US / PRC government levels) for may years without any solid results..... will be long and hard way to get approval for expressway use all over China.
I didn't say it would work, just a suggestion of what to do rather than nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TB-Racing
Pete, naming any threads or organizations properly at this stage would be important. Some ideas:
-Request for special high-powered motorcycle registration.
-Campaign for equal costs and equal rights for recreational motorcycles.
-Plea for special car type registration for high-powered motorcycles.
同样在中国摩托车汽车登记
For me it should be a more than just freeways. Having a blue plate should mean that city bans, freeways and so on all be open to the bike, same rights and costs as a car, simple. I think this was trialled in Beijing some years ago. If I remember Chinarider had a black plate on his BMW for a while.
Dunno who closed the thread, open now!
G'Day,Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Doubt very much China will allow 125--250cc motorbikes on the expressways all over China, they will go for 600+cc to keep it to a very limited controllable number of motorcyclists, if they ever legalise motorbikes on expressways all over China.....
Anyhow, have a nice weekend and hope we all get some great riding during the upcoming weekend!
I found it very interesting to type in "骑摩托车上高速" to a Chinese search engine and see what came up, to get a sense of locals who may have tried riding their motorcycles on expressways.
Holy crap!
Although I couldn't translate all the details, with the help of translation software I was able to get the gist. Let's just say that all manner of locals have tried this, and many during the Spring Festival travel season and other peak times. The consequences have all been negative, granted, these were the guys who got caught.
Even more amazing was how some provinces allowed the motorcycles with simple conditions that they had to be capable of speeds above 70 km/h and not exceed 80 km/h with the riders wearing high-vis vests and helmets. This was the recent law of Hubei province in particular as in this video clip.
http://www.hjsq.cn/thread-252687-1-1.html
Guizhou province also a similar rule.
But in some provinces, especially Zhejiang, they treat the motorbikes with outright hatred.
It would seem perhaps that the richer provinces ban the bikes totally and they're allowed in poorer provinces, but this is isn't the case because Beijing allows the bikes, and Chongqing has outright bans. Yunnan province also has the ban.
All this inconsistency is what makes China, well China.
I finally mustered up the courage to ride up to the gate of nearest the expressway entrance two weeks ago. The nice looking girl just giggled at me after I said "ni hao" and a guy (maybe her superior) ran over flapping his arms, doing his very best to deter me and explain that what I wanted to do was impossible in every aspect of physics.
I didn't get on, or try to force my way on but I did...
1: force them to reroute about 3 articulated lorries and a dozen cars from behind me into the adjacent entrances.
2: get the girl in the booth at my gate reposted into another lane gate effectively closing mine.
3: have a chat with the guy and I explained to him that I'd read several documents and even spotted questions on my theory test that stated motorcycles were allowed on the Gao su lu if capable of following the rules.
"...Bikes just can't ride on expressways; they're not capable."
I replied:
I rode on expressways in the USA and the UK (a little lie but many have and one of them might have well been me).
"But this is China"
I replied:
"And I'm not Chinese"
"...Bikes just can't ride on the expressway; it's too dangerous."
I replied:
"All Chinese roads are dangerous."
"...Bikes just can't ride on the expressway; there's never been one bike go through these gates."
I replied:
"Today could be the first and nobody has to know"
Our little chat seemed to amuse him and he seemed to be quite charmed by my politeness + persistence. He asked me a few questions like where I'm from, what I'm doing here and how is it that I can speak Chinese.
I asked him if I could talk to his boss and he said that he wasn't there at the time.
"What if I showed you the test questions that state bikes are allowed on the expressway?"
He replied...
"Bring them with you to show him next time and he might let you on" :eek2: I'm allowed on by law but it's still a random expressway entrance manager's choice? I feel like telling him to prove that I can't go on instead of asking me to prove that I can. How long will they stick to the things they think they know while avoiding their duties and ignoring the documents that clearly state national laws.
I've got the docs ready + the youku video about bikes on expressways in the post above by Steve_R.
I'm going to try again tomorrow.
TIC
Despite what I wrote above I'm still aware that this isn't my country and I'm not going to go crazy if I get turned away but I'm still going to try and make a difference for the benefit of mcmkind!
Your conversation deserves a place in the TIC (This si China) thread, well done!Quote:
Originally Posted by soberpete
And looking forward to the next episode :icon10:
The reason I've never stressed about not being able to ride on freeways is that they are a tedious way to travel that makes your tires go all horrible and square, the tolls are overpriced and you quickly rack up expense and the signing is abysmal. If you were by chance able to go on one you'd be looking at the scenery wondering about what the riding you were missing out on was like. The food gives you diarrhea, everything is overpriced and the toilets stink. Also if you were able to get on and wanted to stay legal you'd have to stick to 80kms an hour which would mean you'd being overtaken by cars and trucks constantly getting hideous wind-blast. So I guess they are right, it would be dangerous, only because of their dumb rules though.
Pete, they'll hate you if you start telling them the actual laws. China is 'rule by man (incompetent douche-bag), not rule by law', same problem that the blind lawyer bloke had.
ZMC888 is right.
After reading that I kinda don't even want to try it any more.
You go boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by soberpete
I agree with ZMC888 plus little 125,150,200 and 250 don't like being pined for long periods of time.
Good point. It's not the best thing to do to a small engine but I must say that the YBR 250 rides pretty comfortably around 120kph. I could maintain some speeds between 100 and 120 without pushing the engine too hard and without getting overtaken by 90% of the expressway traffic.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Would you sit on 120kph for 2-4 hours? Ok I know Xinjiang is different to every where else.Quote:
Originally Posted by soberpete
120kph is slow up here.
Our little scooter-biker-gang (110, 125, 150 and 200) was on the expressway outside Beijing last Monday. My 125, "cruising" at 95 kp/h (WOT), sucked the gas like there was a hole in the tank. Also, the 13 inch wheels made my brain think of all kinds of horror scenarios. Fortunately, there wasn't any other traffic around.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
Still paid the full toll price.
Why the expressway? Well, we were lost and were actually racing some sidecars back home. According to the sidecar crew, who were at the shop when we arrived, they had been waiting 15 minutes for us ... yeah, well, next time we will have a race through central Beijing traffic, on a Saturday afternoon.
Nyet, expressways are no fun.
Update:
I did try again on the 25th but I was met with a guy far less reasonable with the first.
Despite the progress that I felt had been made with this second guy, he made me feel hopeless: He pretended (I could see it in his body language and in his eyes) to be on my side but really he was just trying to save me from losing face :confused1: even though mine is nothing like a Chinaman's face.
I'll continue this thread later when I have the morale to do so.