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Hey TB,
Was'nt me in the yellow rain coat. But i was in the rain the other day.
Hey also just fYI the TR does really well at the track ( Tian Ma) well for a sport touring bike. But other then a soft supension and perhapse wanting stiffer brakes, it was a whole lot of fun.
No chicken strips left now!
Hola, folks. My very first post...
I joined just so I could see the pics in this thread! The 650TR looks like a really interesting bike. I am unaware of any other purpose-built sport touring 650 bikes that are remotely beginner suitable (as seems to be the case from the few reviews I've been able to find on the NK).
No press has touched the TR yet, so please keep updating with impressions and pics as you can, ShanghaiFingers. Is ther any storage space under the seat?
peace: c-w
+++UPDATE+++
So after 4100 kms driven on the TR the bike is good. I have had no MAJOR problems, but some typical minor ones.
Parts replaced do to defect:
Clutch Cable
Front Brake Cable
Rear Brake Cable
( all the cables were changed by CF moto and it was CF moto that CALLED me to tell me of the problem and to come in and have them changed for different one's.)
Oil pressure sensor, it would trigger the pressure light on the dash for no reason. (it has been changed twice, without no change the light just comes on, I ignore it)
Gasket on the engine cooling unit, which leaked.
Dash assembly, the speedo went to hell and the whole unit needed replacing, now my mileage reads 00000.4
Things still waiting on:
Leftside luggage box, current one leaks when I was the bike or during heavy rain. Seems to be entering at the locking mech. (CF moto is still working on the solution)
Overall opinion:
The bike is good, really good for its money (which is not cheap when compared to some Japaness bike in the same catagory like the US NX 700 by Honda)
First domestic bike that I have ever seen that does 205 kmh.....:eekers:
Its really a nice handling bike, great for the back side of Mo Gan Shan, its very nimble and the front end gives good feed back in the corners. The supension is a little like a water bed on the track (yes I know it not a track bike) However that being said it did quite well at Tian Ma racetrack bags and all... The brakes are good bordering on damn good, it stops the bike in a hurry. Even after 3 sessions at Tian Ma, the brakes never faded. I enjoy long hauls to Qian Dao Hu, Huang Shan, Anji, Mo Gan Shan as well as cruising around town... It narrow enough to still be able to filter so downtown traffic is not that big of a consern. Fuel milage is on par with Harleys and out of a single tank I will get about 250 kms.
I have not installed my radio, but I have the components ready, which are:
Jenson jhd910BT radio, which is a waterproof, handle bar mountes unit with an AUX port for the I phone and blue toooth
2 Poly-Planar Gray 3-Inch Round Flush Mount Speakers ( I will custom mount them BEHIND then speaker blanks in the fairing)
Waterproof Univeral FM/AM antenna, thing BMW RT style:thumbsup:
I just swapped the pipes out for the slightly more agressive IXIL Silencer, after which the CF moto tech played with the mapping a bit to get the setup right after the pipe change.
Attachment 7998
New Slip On
Attachment 7999
Old two pcs, HEAVY crap
I also added a set of fog lights for add visability:
Attachment 8000
If you are into long distance riding but want to spend less then what a BMW goes for and want better handling then what HD offer, this the CF Moto 650 TR is a great option. Having now ridden the crap out of a bike I have had for 3+ months, I am confident in saying the CF moto is a decent bike choice in China, would I buy in the US, no of course not, too many nicer prettier toys out there on the market, but for China its a good choice....
It rides smooth, quick, reliable and comfortably.
sound, please!
Very nice update, guess you made a lot of people happy right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghaifingers
And those replacements, although an annoyance, are pretty common on new cars and bikes. Could have been a lot worse.
I just wonder how your tech's did the above without the help of a dyno.
Also worth noting here, as Bikerdoc has in the past following his experiences with his big CFMoto scooter, it appears that the support you are getting from the factory is setting a new standard for development and customer input and customer satisfaction among Chinese manufacturers. This is a huge development and one that will have implications for years to come as other manufacturers either continue their "head in the sand" ways or get off their asses and compete with CFMoto to win customers. Our intrepid member futianshenzhen aka Pikey Tom is finding a similar level of support from Yingang, which of course takes the battle right to China's motorcycle jugular in Chongqing, where the slacker standard of manufacturing reigns supreme.
Shanghaifingers, can you give us a bit more detail about your interactions with the factory? Are you considered a beta rider or do you have some special status as a consultant on the debugging of the 650TR? Do you meet them here in Shanghai, or in Hangzhou? Do they come to you, or do you have to raise issues with them? Active or passive? Enthusiastic or reluctant? Do you pay for the many replacements you mentioned, or do they?
Thanks and keep it coming!
cheers
Did you just say your "CF Moto Tech" fine tunes the ECU mapping after swapping cans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghaifingers
Are you sure you're not riding a BMW that's branded CF Moto? Could this really be proper tech service for a China bike?
Euphonius: How are you making out with your Jialing consultancy gig? Can we see similar service in the future? :naughty:
I think you confuse my willingness to help Jialing dig its head out of the sand with my ability to do so. I'm not holding my breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoKai
cheers
We will settle for Jialing Riders Group Ombudsman. .
Thanks for the update SF, and thank you for your honesty and unbiased reporting.
"...would I buy in the US, no of course not, too many nicer prettier toys out there on the market, but for China its a good choice...."
So it seems this is still true of pretty much any chinamoto. Still it's great to have bigger options now, when i gt into the chinamoto game 5 years ago, the qingqi 200 was the most advanced bike you could get!
Notice much difference with the new pipes, other than looks, sound and weight?
MotoKai, there is a little tongue and cheek when I said that. They did their best to adjust the mixtures with the diagnostic computer they have for the TR. the process was similar yet less invovled then the HD remapp they do when you install new pipes on an HD.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoKai
There is a good question, can I use a aftermarket "fuel pack" on the TR. its basically an 09' ER-6 N?
As far as association with CF moto, I have none. Other then the offical title of Pain in the Ass. As a CF moto customer like the other TR owners, I am a beta tester. Seems to be a common practice, copy a design, build a bike then sell it and let the first few brave customers find the problems. The difference is that CF moto is right there with support when you have a problem and even before. Also the CF Moto dealer I use and fully endorce is very good at supporting the product and is in turn supported by the factory. I have a direct line of communication with the manager in charge of the TR line at CF moto yet I have not needed to communicate directly with him and his team because Lao Zhu ( my dealer ) has been on top of everything.
CF moto has been very attentive when any of the customers have a real consern, problem or suggestion. They even has asked us at events they hold, for our honest opinion and I have see their team writing down what we are telling them an improvements shortly introduced. The TR is actually pretty squared away and needed only tweaks...
I really enjoy my TR, anyone on the fence about buying should just pull the trigger. :naughty:
Thanks for the detailed review.
Tempting, very tempting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghaifingers
Dear LJH,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
And what, dare I ask, might you jettison from your fleet to make room for this fine steed? Or have you negotiated a larger fleet size with sweetie?
I know, it's a highly fuel injected question!
cheers
Need some bikes for my FINALLY 90% approved WFOE (:clap:) re MC biz, etc. What a nightmare that has been, but that's off-topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
I've always liked the Honda ST, and it seems that Mr SF really knows what he is talking about, and I value Bikerdoc's experienced opinions on CF-Moto ... combined, more than good enough for me to test the waters. Ordering a GW250, also, but this 650TR seems very, very nice. I sat on one in a dealer, and like SF states, the foot pegs tuck the legs away in a racing style - not sure if I like that.
Also read some reviews online about the 650TR, all positive.
Sweety has always known I am a hopeless case.
Shanghaifingers,
When you next provide some feedback, push the point that the bike needs a centre-stand. It's one point I've been pushing to them, and the more they hear it, the more that issue might reach the R&D team which is ~30% of CFMoto investment, and hopefully result in one being designed in and added. It's the only real thing I feel that is lacking on the bike, oh and the lack of any odometer/trip metre - same as what is missing on the Jetmax.
I had thought about getting another Jetmax centre-stand and fabricating a creative solution to the centre-stand, but there is not a lot of space under that frame with the front under cowl and exhaust pipes... YMMV
BD
LJH I was just in at one of my local dealerships after having my Jetmax in for its two yearly inspection (passed with flying colours), which I was expecting - I had expected them to say no: lights to bright (25W HIDs) and horn too loud (PIAFF two tone electronic air horns), to say nothing off all the other mods, but surprise surprise it passed. Anyway the head salesman comes over and tells me he has a new bike that would suit me. A CF650NK which they've had since late last year or early this year I can't recall. He forgot too that he was trying to sell the 650NK to me then. Back at that time, I was waiting for the 650TR which I was told by my CFMoto insider was the police version and the RS would be for civilian use, but oh well TR it is. Anyway my wife was with me at the dealership having accompanied me to help fill in the forms for the inspection, and as soon as I said some positive things about the 650NK I felt a hit to my shoulder as she tried to persuade me from a possible purchase decision on the NK (not that I want a 650NK), and verbally reminded me that I have 3 bikes already (little does she know a fourth is on its way). Still you gotta luv 'em. They 'aint called sweeties for nothin'... I also got no spare space in the garage as it is...
Bikerdoc,
I have spoken at length about a ceter stand.... I really can't understand why they did take the time to create one in the design phase. Its a sport touring bike, and one thing you will have to do is lub the chain (if you don't have an automatic oiler system) or god for bid fix a flat on the road. I have photos of the last roadside repair
Attachment 8022
note the careful balancing act we are playing with to hydraulic jacks.... at the time I did not have "race spools" on the swingarm which might have helped....
Attachment 8023
In case you wondering why I have to pull the whole wheel....
A center stand would have made this a much easier issue. (Even though it only took 30min to complete the repair)
However they explain that its not something that they think they can just engineer in.... I am guessing they are waiting for me to go out and have a bespoke one made up and fitted before you will see anyone with one "stock" Now that I have pulled the stock exhaust can out there actually might be room now to fit a stand....
Anyone got any ideas who might do a good job fabing a center stand??? What about the Tourfellas "lao Ban", is this something he might be into???
I'm with you 100% on this. A centre stand is a must, and for some it will be a contributing or deciding factor. I know of one potential buyer who was seriously considering the 650TR but for the lack of a centre stand he's not gone ahead with the purchase. I guess between you and myself (and potentially other interested parties) we have to be vocal about this oversight which needs correcting and fast. As you mention on a sport touring bike a centre stand is a necessity. If this means that CFMoto to need to redesign the exhaust system with a different collector box then so be it. You may want to send them some detailed pics of your after market can, so that 'get' the idea. Sometimes we as the end users need to take the initiative.
As for a bespoke solution, you might like to consider the Jetmax centre stand which I'm sure is not that expensive as most of the items for the Jetmax are really affordable in PRC - not so outside PRC though as it turns out. Having a centre stand then allows you to find someone to come up with a solution. If you were down in Zhejiang, I can say there is a very capable CFMoto approved mechanic with a small dirty but well organised work shop that has done a few fabricating projects for me on my Jetmax (exhaust fab for an after market can and altering my centre stand on the Jetmax to accommodate larger better branded tyres). So if you want to ride down to Beilun, Ningbo for a weekend I can introduce you to the fella etc.
I'd even be interested myself in seeing your combined solution (after market exhaust and centre stand addition), as I know it would convert one person into a buyer and potentially one more. So there's two potential buyers right there, if you could get this out of the gate - no pressure or anything!
As for the interim and working on that rear end without a centre stand, I use a combination of one hydraulic bottle jack just to raise my Dragstar Classic 1100 then I place two axle stands either side under the rear frame. A mate does something similar, but he forgoes the jack and just leans the bike over onto one side and slides an axle stand under the opposite side, and then uses that one axle stand to create a fulcrum affect for the opposite side. It gets the job done, but I prefer the bottle jack myself. Of course this is all well and good in my garage at home. Out on the road, me and my riding buddies had to use bricks to do the same thing one time in the hotel car park one morning in LiShui - it worked, but that convinced me then and there to change from tubed tyres to tubeless on the Dragstar which has wire wheels, so it cost me a bit (rmb3000 from memory which included the new tryes). Now I have the peace of mind that if I get a simple puncture I can use the proverbial plug. I also carry a small portable electric compressor not to mention lots of tools - which I end up using or lending on the road side to others in our riding party one time or another.
Still the axle stands are a nice solution when needed.
I just hope that CFMoto get the concept of an centre stand on the adventure/dual purpose model they're proposing.
Although it is in no way a replacement of a centre stand, you might consider this principle to carry with you, it works very well, and is a one man operation. Just bring a tie-rap to lock your front brake.
http://www.packjack.ca/
Attachment 8024 Attachment 8025
I even saw a guy who made one from a steel bar used for concrete reinforcement, same principle though.
^ great idea, from the website video it demonstrates that application of the packjack does allow for the rear wheel to be lifted off the ground? I like it. Does it have any weight ratings?
If u ask me, I have no idea, never used it.
But I know that several sportbike owners (also without centre stands) use this principle to lube the chain, and even taking out the rear wheel for tire changes.
Should still not be my personal choice, but I guess better then nothing for an emergency.
This is a classic McGuyver kluge -- super effective almost anywhere as long as your side stand is reliable and it's not sinking in sand or mud! A length of wood or pipe always does the trick, as long as you get the length right. Among us KLR owners, legendary in our quest for cheap solutions, it's a special honor to be able to find "any old thing" laying around for use as the prop on the right hand side.
It's a super effective way to lube or adjust your chain. Just be sure you loosen your axle bolt with the real wheel still on the ground, before you prop it up.
cheers
]I Just ordered this from Aerostich.com, its no center stand but its a good, simple, portable solution (for now). It was 42.00 USD plus shipping:
http://http://www.aerostich.com/tool...-and-lube.html
Attachment 8137
Attachment 8138
[ATTACH=CONFIG]8139[/ATTACH
Very nice find, but your Aerostich link is garbled. Try this one: Lift and LubeQuote:
Originally Posted by Shanghaifingers
Once it's arrived, please let us know how it works...
Cheers!
Looks nice indeed, better then the other one I found.
I like it locking into the rear axle instead of the flimpsy connection.
Now only I hope your axle is hollow ... :naughty:
@Shanghaifingers: any update ?
Thanks for the reply.
1happydream
What information are you looking for?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1happydream
Hi, can you please post some infos?
-Fuel tank capacity (any leakage?)
-Feul efficiency (Km/l )
-Any updates about driving after some miles (clutch smoothness, gear stifness, tyres grip, braking feeling, seat comfort,etc.)?
-What about construction solidity? rear bags, front windscreen, keys, etc.
-Any news from CFMoto about 650 TR incoming updates (cables,front mirror stifness, etc.)?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Hope the best for You.
1happydream
[QUOTE=Shanghaifingers;42642]Okay okay okay... I have been off riding the TR or ST 1300's little brother as I call it.
First impressions are good, the bike is smooth, really smooth. The gearbox is slick and easy to shift. The 650 TR feels very well balanced and quite nibble when slotting through traffic. One of my main conserns before the bike arrived (having bought it sight unseen) was its over all dimentions, much to my suprise the bike suits my 1.85 meter frame just fine. My feet are fully planted whiles stopped and my arms are comfortable on the (ugly) handle bars. The riding position is upright, think commuter bike, but the my feet and legs are a bit tucked up under me like a rce bike.
The performance charater is sutble, in the sense that the bikes power delivery comes on nice and easy, without any jurking or lurching. Below 6000rpm the bike can feel underpowered when running with other bikes like ducati's. That all changes past 6000 rpms, the powerband kicks in and the bike starts to move. Even at high RPMs the bike is still smooth almost nothing is felt in the bars or pegs.
Braking is fine, nothing WoW and also nothing to complain about. The bike has dual disk brakes up front which can bring you to a complete stop very quickiy and even though the front supension is plain jane non adujstable there is no real noticable nose dive under heavy braking and the entire bike remain very stable and controllable during emergency breaking and avoiding (tested many times in the last two days TIC).
Interestingly many of you have asked about the price, I don't know what people are complaining about for 46,800 rmb the fair deal for 650 watercooled, fuel injected sport touring bike, considering the next comparable LEGAL bike is in the 100,000 rmb range (I dont include regal raptors or any other smaller displacement bikes). Its not just an NK with a windshield is a differnt model completely it just shares an engine. Hell the plastics are better then Bennelli and the engine is better then the JH 600 (which I also own). Now that being said the bike is a little under equipped. Looking at the dash its analogue both the speedo and the RPM gauge. with only the odometer and fuel gauge being in LCD display in the lower right coner which is backlight when the lights are on. The TR does not have any type of trip computer or even a clock . Indicator lights (idiot lights) are on the outer edge of the inner fairing and are very bright, maybe too bright. On the fairing there is room for speakers, and there are panels that are removable or drillable depending on your choice of installation for a stereo system. A kit is not currently available from CF moto, all though I am told by the production manager in HangZhou they intend on designing and building one for aftermarket sale. There are two glove boxes below the handle bars one that is lockable with the ignition key and the other is unsecured but has a nice postitive latch. They seem to be waterproof but mostlikely they are water resistant. The mirrors are built into the fairing and are well placed and only a small amount of my lower elbow can be seen, they don't viberate much and have good enough visibilty to not be a consern. They are also designed as breakway so if you clip something while driving damage will be minimal and you can just simply pick the unit up and snap it back in place.
The handle bars are Ugly yes but comfy, the designer of the NK definitely used the Honda ST 1300 and the Yamaha FJR 1300 as a guide and the handle bars are a product of this relationship. However they are attached like any other set of bars. Its easy to swap out the bars for a regular set of risers and bars. The controls are the same that are on the NK and they are jsut fine. The clutch and brake levers adjustable and function smoothly.
The seat is a single peice and is quite comfortable even after a few hours, it seems to be softer and thicker then the NK's and its narrow enough at the front for you to grip the tank comfortably while cornering. Now my long legs actually rest on the lower fairing while riding and at first it comfortable because it allows you to fully relax your legs on long straights but after a few hours without knee padding the knee cap can become a little tender. I am not sure why CF moto thought that such an aggressive leg position was needed but I think that lower aftermarket pegs might help with that.
The Head lights are the Automove style incandecent and the parking lights are LED. The brake light is also LED but are a bit dim when NOT lit up under braking, durining braking the lights are very bright. Turnsignals are LED upfront and bulds in the rear, both sets well placed and very bright. No automatic cancel on the signals but big green indicator on the inner fairing left and right respectively.
The side of the bike have these rather large engine guards like on the ST 1300, however they appear to be hollow so I am not sure whether or not they will really help in a crash and I hope I never find out the hard way. They do seem to work quite well as highway bars.....
The boxes are a nice bit of kit, they are none removable and are make of nice thick ABS. The latch and locks are good, not great but good and the each box can fit a full size helmet and then some.
Attachment 6993
Attachment 6994
Attachment 6995
Attachment 6996
The boxes are felt lined which is a nice touch. They stick out only as wide as the mirrors so you can lane split through traffic quite easily. The boxes are not ment to take a hit and there is not crach bars either. A stick on the outside indicates that the max load is on 3kgs per bag, which seems a little light to me but therr is a metal subframe supporting the bags which at least indicates to me the possibilty of handling more... A top box will be a must for longer trips or trips 2 up. The boxes are a bit on the small side, as I feel that they could have been much taller, meaning they could extend down more increasing the over all size to accomidate more gear but they seem acceptable for most occasions.
All in all the bike is great, for now.... only time will tell how she will hold up and how well the CF moto company supports its customers and products. SO far the CF moto group has high marks from its customers and the NK owners club in Shanghai is growing to quite a big group... I have only heard rave reveiws from owners about the attentive and fast acting behavior to the CF moto company. Even annoucing problem with bikes before the customers even realize and most importantly fix the problems quite swiftly. They even have gone to customers house to fix recall issues without have to be screamed at or even notified they notify you!!!!
A 2 year unlimtied mileage warranty is give with every purchase and at the time I ordered the bike the offer was 46,800 with 2700 rmb in free riding gear (which was quality stuff)
For the money its a very good bike! I would and have chosen it over the Bennelli Trek do the Bennelli's platic quality and because of the high viberations felt in the handle bars, as well as price. The fit and finish is comparable with other "high end" domestic and semi domestic brand bikes and is capible of being a commuter bike during the week and you long hual touring bike on the weeknds and holidays. I will leave Friday for a week long ride and will report more on the bike after....
FYI I got this bike from the Dealer on WuZong lu near Dragon Rider, Plates are not a probelm an I currently have 15 temporary plates which I attempt to get a HU C plate under my name. Its a address thing not a bike thing... Jaff the owner is great and very accomidating. If you interested in a bike be prepare to wait however as the y are currently only is small production right now and it seems they are building silver ones now, then black and finally Red.
Any new updates on the 650TR how is it going?
Well 14,000 kms now on the clock and some big rides completed. The bike is still awsome. It is a really great bike, for the price. I ride with Duc's Beemer and Hd's and i have never felt "inadequate". Power, comfort and range are on par and bike is constantly suprising people. On a side note I recently slide on a grave filled underpass and slammed into a wall at about 90-100kph. The bike low slided down the street another 20 meters or so. Other the cosmetic damage she is fine. The built in crash protection did its job remarmably well. Only my after market fog light was damaged and of course the bike guard ( little blak wing like thing still out on each side ).
I highly recommend the 650TR