Saga 250cc- Keeps Stalling!

He did mention something about not enough pressure or something inside the thingee to cause something else to happen and that would cause it to shut off. But he explained it as something to do with the valves not being able to open because of not enough "compression"?? Maybe you all know what all of that means. I have no clue!

I just know that by now, they should have offered a refund or a loaner. It's just good customer service. Being business owners, we know the value of not having our customers pissed off at us because they were passed a defective product. We have even gone as far as firing a supplier because we had repeated problems with their products.

Now, he might not be able to go that far. But he could have given us back our money and trade in at this point. The bike isn't even at 350k' yet and it's a 2010 model.

They can spend the rest of their careers tinkering with this thing if they want. But we want our lives back along with our money and trade in which is still sitting in his shop as we speak collecting dust.

even a BIG named bike (harley/honda/ect) could have a vaper lock issue from a defective cap , and have it go undiagnosed by the mechanics , and have the company fight to fix it (even though they dont know whats wrong) instead of replacing/refunding the bike

dont let a possibly 15 dollar part (fuel cap) and a few bad mechanics spoil a name brand for ya , as it seems that it could have

as Ive found during my years , most peaple in shops calling themselves "mechanics" are blithering idiots if its a problem not written in there books , even when simple and somewhat common

TOO LATE! haha. They have ruined the SAGA name for me. I will never do business with the company again.

Scooterchick

I hope the dealer keeps his word and returns your trade-in, etc, if the problem cannot be satisfactorily resolved.

You purchased a brand new vehicle (expensive) with the inherent assumption that it will perform as advertised. I doubt many new vehicle advertisements show the bike/car/tractor/whatever stalling as it is being driven along the road.

Also, people buy new vehicles with the inherent assumption of "no mechanical knowledge required." Even if you did have mechanical knowledge, performing any of your own "work" might invalidate the warranty.

As for the SAGA name ... well, I don't know anything about them, and had never heard of them. BUT, I do know Harleys, and my first spankin' brand new Harley (1976), bought at the East Broadway/Fraser dealer in Vancouver (long since gone), was absolutely the most horrible and unreliable bike I have ever owned. It was an effort to get it to the dealer (from my home in Burnaby), but when I did get it there, the dealer would always tell me to piss off. I swore off Harleys, forever ... but then ended up buying several more Harleys afterwards. Maybe that just says Harley owners are suckers for punishment ... who knows.

I always keep a Yamaha/Honda tucked in my garage for the days when I absolutely MUST get to an appointment.

Good luck.

They have only been in Canada for about 7 years. According to their website, they came here in 2005.

Having owned a few Chinese scooters myself, I'd just like to say that your experience is far from unique. I believe I had to push my scooter across the PSB checkpoint from Shanghai into Jiangsu at least 5 different times. I put up with this for a year because it was the only way for me to get around. I visited mechanics constantly to keep them running, but that was okay because parts and labour were ridiculously cheap. In Canada, however, this is quite obviously not the case. I'm sure you ate up your dealer's profit margin on this bike a long time ago.

The way this company is treating you and your husband is shameful. Please consult with a lawyer and report back on what he/she says. I'm from Vancouver myself so I'm interested to find out what the legal situation is in such a case.

Once you get the money back, go to Craigslist and look for a good Japanese scooter. This is where I would have started in the first place. There is no way I would buy a Chinese bike in Canada.

I'm sorry to hear that there is not better quality control in China and that the United State, Canada and God only knows what other countries accept this standard of product. We will certainly let everyone know how things go with this.

In regard to Craigslist, we went to them second. Kymco was our first choice as I loved the scooter that I had purchased from them. But it was only a 50cc Vitality which happens to be still sitting at the dealers shop. Never had problems with it and traded it for this SAGA 250cc. Kymco did not have a 250cc and was not shipping any more to Canada or the US for whatever their reasons are. If you check Kymco.com and Kymco.ca you will see that they are not listed in this year's line up.

A 300cc or 500cc is not what I feel I can comfortably handle and 200cc is not going to allow me to tour beside my husband as we desired to do together. So, we chose this company. We did do research and couldn't find much information (good or bad) and figured it was because they were fairly new to Canada. So, we decided to give them a try.

And here we are.........Now we know.

SETTLE IN FOLKS.....here it is:

My husband is not willing to have his wife die needlessly because he wants to take bad workmanship "personally". If he had built the bike himself, I could see him feeling insulted. We never insulted him. But we did have some things to say about the craftsmenship of the product and record keeping practices of the company. He has been more concerned about defending himself personally than making things right with us when it is clear for the entire world to see that he cannot fix this bike. He told us that he did all he knows how to do according to the check list that he is given. So, saying I'm sorry does not fix the mechanical issues. Maybe he did say that, I certainly don't remember. I asked my husband and he said that he did apologize. But at this point, It doesn't matter. Because we later found out with the results of the day that he did not in fact mean it.

We tried to start it yesterday to take it out and had trouble getting it to stay started. When it finally did start, it DIED while I was waiting for my husband to get the rest of his gear on (gloves and helmet). Very disappointing. So, we talked about what to do now and decided to try to start it again. This time it did start... (third try) and I said" we'd better hurry before it shuts off again"!. Then it sounded like a car does when it changes gears. I don't know what that is. and the RPM thing went from 1200 (which is where it was when it started sputtering) to 1800 in a flash. I was still only sitting there. Maybe that's normal?? I have no idea.

So, I looked at my husband and he said "maybe it just warmed up". So, we headed out and went back to the place where we had it towed from a few days ago. It's highway getting there and once you get there you have to drive slow because it's a public park area.

Anyway, we go and it seems to be ok except for this "weird" noise. I stopped and told my husband that it sounded like it was going to cut off like it did before. We just looked at each other. I gave it some gas and decided to keep going. Then we got to a nice lake area and pulled over, parked and took some pics. The whole stop was about 15-20 minutes. Went to start the bike......NOTHING! Tried again. NOTHING. Tried again and it started. this is what has been happening all along except this time it didn't cut off while I was actually driving. Thank God!

We thought we had better head out and there was that "noise" again. I thought it might have been the fan as I saw the light come on a couple of times when we were traveling around 20k's per hour. But I don't think it was because after the fan went off, the noise was still there. It sounded and "felt" like it was running rough. as if you are driving over loose gravel, but you are actually on a smooth surface. ??? And the motor sounded like it was racing even though we weren't going that fast.
We explained all of this to the dealer today.

Ok, so we head out and hubby wants to take it in the other direction down the highway. I ain't too keen on this idea, but go along anyway. We take it to another beach area called Britania. I still hear the weird noise and gravel feeling off and on, but the fan light thing didn't come on this time as far as I could tell. We stop to get coffee. Walked around for a bit. About 45 minutes later go to leave and NOTHING. Bike won't start.....tried it again NOTHING. Tried it a few more times and it finally started and we took it back home.

sheesh. It's just not reliable enough for me to take it to another province or touring around the US or something like that; which is why we bought it in the first place. Not trustworthy. So, we will be taking it back today. I"m just not interested in continuing, endless maintenance on this thing. It's not even time for the first service yet and the bike has been to the shop several times already.

what a waste of time this has been for us.
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My thoughts:

I am capable of forming my "own" opinion of a person on a personal or professional manner. Everybody in the world might think a company is the "cat's pajama's". But my opinion is based on my OWN experience with any company; not someone else's. I had no dealing with the company before now and I don't know anyone who did. So this is my ONLY impression and I NEVER said those word to this man. I said he either sucked as a mechanic or he sold me a lemon. That is what I said. He assured me it was not him. and I apologized to him for saying that. That was that. I have NEVER used profanity to this man. But he keeps insisting that I insulted him because I don't trust him. I don't have to. It's not an insult. It's my choice after how we have been treated. He gave his word.....He now has refused FOR THE SECOND TIME. His reason? He stating that he did not know how to make a refund on to our credit card. We told him it only took a call to the people who manage the system and they could tell him how. He didn't want to do that and went on to tell us that it was his choice how he chose to refund us.

He offers us a check to be picked up at the end of the day. My husband just wanted the issue closed and asked him to make the call. He refused. Then he said "you think the check is going to bounce!" We didn't say that. Just wanted to walk out of the door with the situation behind us without having to come back for anything. But since he mentioned that, I guess it was is worth considering. Then he asked for two day. We reminded him that it had been two days since he promised. We just wanted to be done with it. I also want to say that his "change of mind" didn't come about until AFTER he kept us waiting at his front counter for 10-15 minutes while he was on the phone to someone.

That fact is the bike keeps stalling just like the dealer. We have file footage of how the bike stalls out and we showed it to him. He still says after watching the video for himself today that "it starts right up". They rolled it into his garage (some friends of his, I guess) the guy had a time getting it to start. Two other people were standing there witnessing the whole thing. One guy looks at me and says " it won't start up". I said this is the problem that we have been having. Once it gets going it might be ok and it might not. The guy who the dealer told us later was not a mechanic and should not have even been sitting on the bike came in and said "it started right up". I did see the guy driving it around, but it DID NOT start right up. My husband, the dealer and myself heard them trying to get it started and it would for a while. If finally did. But it certainly DID NOT START RIGHT UP.

I told my husband this guy was NOT going to keep his word. My husband being the honest guy that he is trust that everyone will be the same. They are not. He is surprised. I'M NOT.

And he says we could report him if we wanted to and pretty much told he was not talking to us any more. He wants "more time" to test drive it himself. We had no reason to think that he had not ALREADY done this each time he "worked" on it.

So, there you have it folks. If you don't "believe in" the dealer, he will not give you a refund on a substandard product. I even offered for him to just keep the money, give me my trade in back and we would just take the loss. He didn't want to do that either.
So, draw your own conclusions.. Like I said, we have our conversations with him and the bike not working properly on video with time and date. He STILL insist that the bike has always run properly even after seeing the video for himself, the bike being in the shop 5 times in almost 6 weeks And that he "reserves the right to fix it".

I forgot to say that my husband told him that if we could just simply be done with the whole thing, that I would send a post saying that he did in fact keep his word as promised. He stalled again and said he didn't believe I would. I offered to do it RIGHT THEN if he let me. It appeared to me that he had a computer with online access right there on the counter. Well, He didn't......SO I DIDN'T EITHER. This is where we are. Very, Very sad situation.
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That behavior is just a shame for ANY kind of a dealer. Well, good luck with that dude and...probably you could contact his management somehow. I mean, if that "company" has management as we understand it.

The "management" Saga Canada are the ones who told us that they never wanted to see our bike in "their" shop again, after the dealer took it there for their mechanic to look at. We were certain we had a warranty. Since we purchased it NEW. The head office of Saga Canada in Langley, BC told us that we did not have a warranty at all. The dealer says we do. The law says we do, at least a one year one with the manufactuer even though we were led to believe we had a two year one.

Unbelievable.....We have never seen any professional establishment treat people this poorly and then cry "abuse" as if somehow, they were done wrong.

Looks to me that they want to run this out to the end of the warranty, tell us the warranty period is over, and then expect to PAY THEM for any other work that needs to be done. I don't see the purpose of replacing substandard parts with MORE substandard parts and think that things are going to be fine. We even offered to purchase higher quality parts for them to install, but the dealer insisted on "his own test" to see what is wrong and if "he" thinks it's ok, then it's ok. We thought the "customer" needed to be satisfied. The bike was made by Benzhou.

I HAVE FINALLY SOLD THIS BEAST AT FULL PRICE TODAY. Thank God that nightmare is over!:clap::riding:

I just finished a two week tour on a Kymco 250cc Bet and Win. Ran like a champ. Never cut off or stalled. Quality control is very important. I'll be sticking with more reputable companies in the futre. But never again will I buy anything made by Benzhou!

Wow, unbelievable. Just read from the first post to post 41 above.

Sorry to read of your misadventures and experiences with what sounds like a less than reputable motorcycle dealer and importer. Shame on them! Operating like that, they need to be kicked out of the industry! There are some good Chinese made scoots and motorcycles... I've been to quite a few motorcycle/scooter manufacturing sites over the 10+ year here in China and have seen most of them. I've had better than good experiences with CFMoto products, here's the Canadian link to the CFMoto importer


I'd like to add that aside form all the mechanical suggestions to which you have already stated you and your buddy bon't have inclination for, doesn't Canada (like most developed/first world countries) have some form of government legislated/statutory consumer protection watch dog? If so, I would be lodging a complaint there. I understand and appreciate that you have now sold the bike (privately? another dealer as a trade for the Kymco?), but I think it is really important to use ever legal avenue to seek redress from both the dealer and SAGA Canda. I think you should also be linking in the dealers name here and the other forums you've posted on as a warning to other would-be buyers. As you outlined in one of your posts, that you too had tried to find some information about SAGA scooters before making your purchase decision (due diligence), and couldn't find any. Now there is some data. Aside from your scootdawg post, have you forumed elsewhere like www.maxi-scoot.com at all? The more you can comment about your experiences in as many avenues the better informed we all are and especially noobie buyers. Must say tongue in cheek though that the name SAGA is quite fitting, given your experiences. I wondered also why you hadn't considered the Kycmo Downtown 300i? There are some great reviews about that maxi, and personally there wouldn't be that much of a difference between a 250 verses 300 IMO. You may have found that even though Kymco Canada weren't listing any models you were wanting to consider, that some of the Kymco dealers didin't have old stock still in inventory?

So, even though you are finally done with the SAGA (no pun intended) I'd recommend that you lay a complaint with the consumer protection agency/fair trading authorities in Canada and provide them with all your evidence, if for no other reason to either have SAGA shape up and meet the minimum standards of fair trade, or force them to close down and let those honest operators to have a viable business in this very competitive global market.

So when you get a moment how the last of your time with the SAGA transpired?

Just my two cents worth, or a those of us who are in China say... 2 kuais worth.

We love happy endings here in MCM so very happy to read about yours. I hope you'll stick around and post from time to time, and we'd love to see pix of you and your new steed!

Ride safe!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

We love happy endings here in MCM so very happy to read about yours. I hope you'll stick around and post from time to time, and we'd love to see pix of you and your new steed!

Ride safe!

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Exactly! All is well that ends well :)
How'bout some new scoot's pics???

Attachment 7745Hi and thanks for your input. In the middle of all of that mess with Saga Canada, I purchased a Kymco Bet and Win from a private owner that works like a dream.

I did consider the Downtown, but it just felt like a big bulky "something" when I sat on it. Also the foot placement felt a little weird to me. I found that the Bet and Win had weird foot placement as well, but I didn't purchase it new. It is a 2007 which only had 3900k's on it and was in superb condition. Had a top case with remote entry and had been fitted with a custom windscreen. The guy was selling it for 2500.00.

In regard to the trade in, We gave J and R Motorsports in Squamish, BC 2600.00 and some change PLUS the trade in of my Kymco Vitality which could have easily sold for 1700.00. So, he basically got a "free scooter" It only had about 1160 k's on it and was a 2009 model. Never been dropped all the maintenance up to date on it too.


I did post the information on other forums. As a matter of fact, when someone tiped the dealer off that I had posted the information on ADVrider.com; he joined the forum and started defending himself. He was promptly asked to leave the forum and do the right thing by the customer and redeem his name.

Canada is slow and backward when it comes to things like this. There is NO lemmon law here. They have a consumer protection agency (sorta ), but they don't seem to know what to do in regard to scooters. When we called the better business bereau, they wanted proof that the dealer had our bike in his shop again. My response: CALL AND ASK HIM! geeze.

He did do the first service on the bike and didn't charge for it and told us to consider it an act of good will on his part. I'm still going to tell others about this company and let them decide if they want to do business with them or not. At least they will know about it and can make an informed decision.

Thanks for reading the whole saga about the SAGA...ha. I'll bet it read like a reality program script or something!

By the way, we just got back yesterday from a tour on the Bet and Win and my husband took his Yamaha Majesty scooter. We went from Squamish, BC to Portland, Oregon in the US and took 12 days to make the trip there and back with a lot of sight seeing in between. You can see the whole ride report here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ight=squampton

I hope you enjoy the trip. Looks like we had over 3,000 people viewing it which was kinda weird! haha

My Kymco 250cc Bet and Win is the red and grey one in the picture! Attachment 7746

Wow, this was a happier and more substantial update than a first glance had suggested! The RR in advrider was fun, and made me wonder how big scooter touring has become in North America. Are the two of you pioneers of sorts, or is this a big new segment of the adventure riding population?

And why scooters as opposed to motorcycles? Not meaning to be provocative or question your choice at all, just curious about your thinking. What are the main factors making scooters the more attractive choice?

Congratulations on sorting it all out, and finding scooter bliss despite the detour.

cheers

No, we are not pioneers...haha. As a matter of fact I think we might be late bloomers in regard to touring!

The reason we chose scooters is because of the simplicity of being able to just "twist and go". No gears, down shifting, etc. We ran into a few folks that were touring when we were away. One guy told us at a stop light that he had covered 1000 miles in 24 hours. They call that an "iron butt" ride.

We didn't do the tour for that reason. We took the back roads and only got on the Freeway when we had to because it's just hard to take pictures and meet people on a high speed highway like that! ha. We wanted to see things that you will not see from the highway. So, we took back roads, stopped for coffee and meals, met people had NO time frame as to when we would get to our destination and was off the road every day before 4:00pm.

We enjoyed it even though in the beginning (as I have only had my permit for 2 months), I had "monkey butt"...!! But it's better now...hahah

Great way to travel. Congratulations for hanging in there.

cheers!

YAY FOR ME!!!!:clap::clap:



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