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Micantech guys, good luck!
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/ha...y-emoticon.gif
I would like finally to see your bikes in show rooms worldwide, or even just "ordinary" bikes with your Screamer engine.
P.S. If you are looking for beta testers for your motorcycle outside China - I'm your man. :naughty:
You're right "guru" I took words like: Horrible, Shits and Giggles" as negative words. I shoul have read "Positive"
Anyway, this will be a great party and who want to come will be very welcome.
The improvments will come from critics, after testings.
Thank you Zorge.
If somebody, serious, is willing to import the bike or the screamer engines in Serbia, Michel told-me, he is willing to send a sample.
It has EC homologation
After boom in sales in 2006-2008, C-moto market here is... capsized and sinking ever since. Bulk of C-motos are waiting for buyers in their boxes for several years. Is the reason for that market saturation or global economic crisis - I do not know. Only God knows when something is going to change in a positive direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by markintosh
Just sharing my thoughts with you: if you prove that the market does not accept this bike with interesting suspension system, it would be a waste not to use Screamer engine. As I see it, the bike with the basic but effective design and feisty little engine, has always been a commodity for which there is an niche and interest in the market.
If you can find a good compromise between the quality of the entire motorcycle and it's price - success should not be missing.
Interesting bit of engineering design. I like people that think outside the accepted "norm" and take a risk to find a better way.:thumbsup: Could you let us know when/if you plan to make something in a bigger displacement? Any dual sport models on the drawing board?
My 130kg arse tends to make even a 600cc engine work pretty hard and I am on old off road motocycle rider who prefers that off road riding position. (sometimes standing on the pegs for fair distances) I wish you were closer. It would be an interesting bit of education for an old fart like me to see the design up close.
Dear Markintosh,
If this bike is for real, its performance will speak for itself and silence the critics. Like many in this forum, I'm both skeptical and hopeful that my skepticism is proven to be without merit.
This is China, and people have plenty of cause to be skeptical. Micantech's founders surely know this. If you are just a "friend of the company," I can understand your defensiveness, though you are doing no favors to the brand or your own reputation by attacking anyone who expresses skepticism. If you actually work for Micantech, and especially if you are in charge of marketing or promotion or brandbuilding, you should be fired for incompetence.
MJH's suggestion that Micantech put this bike under the legendary iron butts of ChinaV aka Mr Smith or Captain Pikey aka futianshenzhen or serpentza aka serpentza for a couple of weeks of test thrashing is a good one, and one he made with the best of intentions. These guys are anything but armchair critics, as anyone who's spent more a few minutes in MCM should know. MJH is no slouch either when it comes to knowing a thing or 10,000 about China bikes. You only betray your own ignorance and harm Micantech by belittling them.
Here's wishing Micantech a great outing this weekend, and every success. I'd love to see the skeptics, myself included, proven wrong.
cheers
Euphonius
M2 retail price in Europe would be approximately 1200 Euro less then the retail price of a Yamaha YZF-125R, which is €4,349.00 EURO.
So the retail price of the M2 would be around €3,149.00 or just over $4,000.00 USD.
The M2 would be about €800 Euro more then a 2013 Hyosung Karion that has a 15 hp 125cc DOHC oil cooled engine.
Thanks for the euros Jeff.
Dear MJH,
I think you need some of these Euro symbols so here's an armful: €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€
You're welcome!
(OK, don't know where to find them in MSFT Windows but in OS X the Edit menus usually have a place to choose "special characters". There must be an easier way!)
cheers
Here is an article on an Indonesian website, the Suzuki DOHC 125 it is notorious for burning oil and guzzling petrol.
http://pertamax7.com/2012/09/05/main...pic-yang-unik/
http://p1.bikepics.com/2005%5C02%5C0...288367-320.jpg
That looks like the same engine.
Here is the 150cc version of the same engine....
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7195/6...f02ab3a8_z.jpg
Suzuki sells a step troughs in Malaysia with that engine, they are called a Belang R150, the latest version of the engine has a six speed gear box. http://www.suzuki.com.my/v3/index.php
Micantech Engine
http://p.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PD...cle-Engine.jpghttp://pertamax7.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=244&h=233
The Micantech engine is without any doubt a copy of the Suzuki 125/150 SACS engines.
Well, I just signed up for the event. While not being a sports bike expert I hope afterwards I can share some impressions about the bike and the production. If anybody else is there pls. let me know. Might me a good event to meet some forum members.
Without having any involvement or opinion towards Micantech I can also feel some negative attitude in some places in this threat towards a company/product that seems to have hardly any reference so far. I can understand might pick up even more on somebody who is personally involved and maybe not a native speaker. That said, I appreciate the presence of Markintosh and his comments to the company. It is good to speak with somebody who has some knowledge and some opinion based on that, better tan talking to a polite "marketing" lady. Seems to be a small, young company daring to produce a not so mainstream design and arrange such an event.
Only field tests will tell if the balance between quality and price is good and if the product can be taken serious. I have been long enough in China not to have any high expexpectiations. But I think it is just fair to hold back with comments about lacking processes and quality as long as there are no reports of bikes falling apart yet.
Anywans, looking forward to the event. And hope we have a bit better picture next week.
In 1970, I was racing motocross on a Spanish made Bultaco against Swedish made Husqvarna, Czech made CZ's, German made Maico's, and other European makes. We laughed when the Japanese introduced theirs, Hell, the Suzuki motocross bikes often broke frames upon landing after a small jump resulting in loads of laughs for all of us snobs! Within 8 years the Japanese were kiciking the European's asses. Today the Japanese rule the market and all the European models I mentioned above are gone completely or just a former skeleton of the glory days. Don't count out the new guys just because they are Chinese or new out of the norm design.
In 1970 I was racing on sand (beach racing) riding BSA twins,great bikes and very competitive,the Japanese tried to get there noses in but really the light weight power of the twin with low down torque always ruled the beach,,did not save BSA though....There time was UP!!!! Regarding this new bike ,,I wish it every success,,as I have just returned from China ,I am gutted I misssed this event,I love to be around bikes and meet motorcyclists..And as I have issues with my new Honda NC700X,s forks I would be interested in this new approach.I think this is the line Chinese bike manufacturers should take ,do something just different,,abit offf the wall,and not the same old Hon/Suz/Yam/Kaw copy..But maybe this bike looks too much alike its chinese competitors,in that its a 125cc sports bike same look as a million others..Maybe for around the same development costs(I know nothing about cost ,but what the heck) they could have made a big bike ,Maybe using the Jinlin big single..Not sports orientated,but a practical everyday kind of bike...OK enough of my waffling,,, to all ,have a good day!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasAggie
Sounds like we are on the same page. My friend had a Rickman Triumph that was a blast to ride at the sandy MX tracks. I can only guess about how fun beaches would have been. BSA's were heavy but way cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by lipsee
The more large displacement bikes there are in China the better!
A short feed back about the event, the company and this bike.
When going to an event in China it is usually good to expct nothing and be prepared for everything. I did not know the brand before and went with the girlfriend there just to get an impression. Even though I am currently not in the market for a sportsbike, as I am trying to get legal on a dual sport, it was interesting. It turned out to be a great weekend and we met many friendly people.
First we went to a prepared part of the industrial earea where you could try the speed and handling of the M2. They had four of their new M2 bikes ready for testing and everybody could try. Some local motorbike clubs joined with their import bikes (including a licensed Ninja). The atmosphere was great.
The styling of the bike I find quite appealing. It looks fast and elegant, not like a toy, also not trying to immitate a bigger bike.
The handling is also good. When hitting the front brakes the bike only sinks in very moderately at the front. Still enough to have a good feedback. An experience you normally just get on a BMW. Heavier riders found this even more stunning.
When pushing the bike arround you notice the steering angle is limited by the design, compared to a normal bike. But when driving it is not an issue, you can still take very tight turns, the design will never limit you when driving.
An 125cc engine certainly does not have the power to give you a rocket lauch feeling. But it should be suffucuent for normal street use. Where the engine exells is is above 8000rpm. So even at speed the throttle is quite responsive. In this respect the bike might be faster than some China-250ccs. You feel that the engine is just happy at high RPMs. It still runs very smooth. It can be race tuned to 18000rpm. So no worries poshing it. In the factory we could see the internals. The cylinderheads nicely machined, and DLC coated valves and key componnts. Imported precision machining equipment. A clean production line and dynamo testing.
My personal opinion on the front suspension as an engineer:
In most hydraulic and pneumatic designs telescopic pistons are designed to take force in exactly one direction and this is parallel to the movement. Any bending force has to be excluded. Just look at construction machinery, fork lift, cars or your rear damper: On both ends there are ball bearings and a mechanical system guides the movement of the damper.
Just on your front forks this practise is ignored in favour of easy design. When your front forks go through a pothole the bending force towards you is mechanically a nightmare. Sure, the design is everywhere. By quantity, material choice and oversizing (compare front shocks with higher loaded rear shocks) the design is safe in most riding conditions. (remember steering stability on those bikes in fast, dynamic situations is still struggled with by top brands from time to time. Would you trust a chinese brand?:deal:)
Now imagine you do not have to trust these telescopic forks any more but could have an inherently stiff and sound design as your rear fork or the A-arms of a dune buggy. The challenge is just to have a system of bearings that allows the steering independently and the transmission doing its job independently. This is what Micantech did with the M2 suspension. They managed to let the front wheel move as it has to move and still the fixture points only have to transfer parallel forces, no bending.
After that we moved to the factory with a MX track in front of it. It had rained the week before, but the weekend was sunny, so perfect conditions for loads of fun. The small pit bikes were provided by YCF (http://www.ycf-riding.com) which have a development cooperation on the engines with micantech. The bikes are quite capable. Everybody could ride as much as he wanted.
After this the BBQ with good(!) beer and a roasted pig started. The whole event was arranged just very nicely.
This is not your typical chinese company trying to make business by welding quantities frames together and attaching whatever engine and accessories they can get with people sittung on the floor and hammering bearings into something.
With a laowei with engineering background in charge I am sure they will not ship out bikes with screws loose; the company is owned and managed by a friendly French guy who has sepent his whole life with motorbikes also in the racing industry. They first developed a nice engine and have a lot of know how here. And now the bike is also completely their design down to the mirror. No compromise. They did something innoivative and have even more interesting stuff in the pipeline. I would not hesitate to do business with them.:thumbsup:
they must know how a bike should handle if they have a RVF 400 in there building.
Kennon
There is technology in this RVF that is unbelievable. The brake lines have quick detach couplings. You can just clip them apart, change the brake pump, clip the new one in... no air in the system.
Michel, the GM used to be a mechanic, later pilot then racing team manager. When he talks about engines and exhausts you see it is all just variables for him. He has actual design experience with the most advenced racing bikes and engines. No doubt they know what they are doing.
To what extent of production of these 125s and 150s are hoping in the company?
So, no one had a chance to try their 150 cc engine, which, as people from Micantech claim, pumps out nearly 20 horsepower?
Was there any discussion about larger displacements - specifically, 1/4 of a liter?
Is this final design of M2 or some changes may occur before the start of mass production? Are there plans for a bike with that suspension system, but different "form factor"? Is it mentioned which factory will perform final assembly of the motorcycle?
150ccs and 250ccs were not mentioned BUT they seem to be designing a much bigger engine and bike now. So the M2 design seems final. You will probably see the front suspension also in their other designs.
The 125ccs displayed were for the European market. It was indicated that Chinese emission regulations would allow to take more power out of the same engine.
Molding seems to be done by specialized factories, but with all molds belonging to Micantech. Assembly of the production bikes will be done in their factory.
If chinese manufacturers could make a bike witht eh same sort of details as the old japanese 400's they would be on to a winner a good handling bike with good power that isn't too much and at a good price to have fun on two wheels for, will be good to see how the company develops this technology further quite a quirky design.
Kennon
Before I put my money (if I had any!!) down I would have to be really convinced of the reliability of that front hub,,it looks so weird..From a marketing point of view are,t they wasting there time making a 125cc,I would have thought its much better to go big!!!
Would have loved to be there for the test day, i'd really like to try this bike. FFE (funny front end) bikes are cool. The people saying the front swingarm looks flimsy should remember that there is way less stress on it than a conventional fork. This set up makes a lot of sense to me.
My main gripe is the styling, particularly the tail, which looks like it was hacksawed from a piece of mdf. It's just uninspired, it looks like the plethora of cheap fake sportsbikes you find on taobao for a few grand. Same with the website and video, they don't look convincing. I reckon this is an engineer's bike; lots of thought and effort went into the technical aspects, which is a great thing, but not much importance was placed on the design or the brand.
Personally i'd love to see this bike as a naked. You could really do something cool with the frame (or lack thereof) and show off that front end instead of trying to hide it.
never mind the bike
i want that pig!
If you are commenting on my post,I better make an effort to explain, I like you always like to see different kinds of steering systems, not just the same old lash ups...I am old enough to have seen many such systems..but what alot have in common is a quite complicated bearing arrangements holding the front wheel in place and been able to turn..When you think about it ,its going to be difficult to achieve.. It has to be strong enough to resisted cornering forces and braking plus cheap enough to produce sucessfully..Looking at this bike I cannot get a clear view of how there front hub works ,,I am wondering if its like the old Difazio front end ,or I suppose because a french man is involved,it is more likely to have some Honda ELF in the mix....Anyway,whatever I was not dissing it ,,,just questioning hub reliability....Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
Get in the line...Quote:
Originally Posted by zhu
Behind me. :)
Attachment 11285
here is the difference between the Vyrus, the Bimota and the Micantech
It looks like all the stress is bore on the engine case, it seems it is the center for all the distributed loads.
The engine is rigid and it has flex point on it connecting to rigid parts, the front wheel rotating and how that occurs is what is being questioned, its not clear how it rotates and also spins simultaneously. The hub of the front wheel is the part that most are considering.
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/at...9&d=1340631464
Many of the comment made on the designs, in all the different languages, they all contain genuine concern about these wear points and the inspection and maintaining of them over time seem to be an issue for most.
Yes, you are right, MJH. But in a very small amount, because, the front shock, (which can be in vertical or horizontal position, depend just of the shape of the linkage), receive a big part of this stress.
The stress is distributed between the right and left side of the crankcase and also between the right and left side of the steering and front suspension linkage support.
Another point is that, when the 2 shocks of the bike are on compression, the reaction of the back shock, naturaly, cancel a big part of the stress coming from the front. (On your picture, there is not the subframe which is also an important part of the structure).
This is also a truth that the comments about bikes without front fork are concerned by the reliability of the systems. Motorcycle world is quite conservative and motorcyclists (for the ones having no engineer formation) has hard time to understand how work those systems in it’s globality.
Remember, the telescopic front fork, which is a completely anti-mechanic system, exist since almost 100 years, without improvement in it’s structure. At the old times of steam locomotives, scientifics were saying that after 60 Km/h, people’s face distort and human heart stop to beat. Can we speak of obscurantism or just bad habits? Human is always scared by what they do not understand.
The front wheel of the Micantech bike is spinning on 2 big balls bearings and the pivot of the steering rotate on a spherical bearing. This spherical bearing does not spin but rotate, with the wheel, of 30 degrees on each side. I think this is clear enough to prove the reliability of the system.