Zongshen 宗申产业集团有限公司

The higher the output the shorter the life, that is true to some extent, it is also true that build quality effects that scenario.


Rumor is that Zongshen contracted the design of the engine, the results were a higher output engine and that it was rated at 23kw?


The domestic production engine is rated at 19kw. They claim its reduction in output was to increase the durability and longevity?


The engine looks very similar to the engine in the Minsk ERX250, however that engine is rated above the 19kw output of the Zongshen? They have it with 20.59kw? That could be that Minsk is tuning it better?


Zongshen sells the engine and it shows up in a lot of models, the base 19kw or 25.84hp is respectable. But what are its attributes or weaknesses, these people all of them collectively are so sneaky and or deceptive. It actually hurts them in the markets. To such a degree that rumors fly around that other manufactures are copying the engines, so how would you know if it an original or even if the original is better or if there are even any copies at all?


They could code them and register them? They could have a web portal that allows that and to check that as well as warranty them and support them technically. Doing that would cost more but also if done right would drive sales.


These accountants have to know that the functional levels within an operations actually effect the numbers they compile. Accounting is history and operations are the here and now.


I like the GY250 and would like to know allot more about what is propelling it.
I also believe it needs siblings in alternate forms, but without knowing the attributes and characteristics of the engine advancement in market penetration would not occur or will not recover the rumored 1.5M EURO investment that they would like to recover in five years. How fast the recovery occurs is a function of how good it is and also then how well and effectively the functional levels of the organization place it into the market.


I would like to see a sibling to the GY250 with softer edges, like an MT-03
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...maha_MT-03.JPG


Maybe a more street version with a lower center of gravity?
http://oi39.tinypic.com/1z1zsoz.jpg


But if they cannot bring it to the market is force and under pricing the competition it is all a big fat lesson in futility.


What they have to do is ask what are you selling today and then say we can offer you more and for less.
They have to be aggressive and in a game of mass production and lowest prices they have to displace all the rest. In that it is all about more and better for less.

It looks like the ZS125-48A has made it to the UK under Lexmoto http://www.lexmoto.co.uk/ZS125-48A.php

A 150cc version of the Z-ONE is also being sold in Colombia, as an AKT RTX. The same distributor is also selling TVS models in Columbia.

4,290,000.00 COP

=

1,353.312 USD

ATK as the US ATK?

I hope - not. :rolleyes1:

sorry my bad, not ATK, it is AKT.

AKT claims that they assemble in Columbia, that likely explains the higher price tags? The 125cc version in the UK is not nearly as expensive as the 150cc version offered by AKT, a nearly $1,500.00 premium on retail price for the AKT, the UK offering also includes a 20% VAT.


Columbia has a 30% import tax and a 16% VAT on an assembled 150cc motorcycle.
Unassembled the tax is 10% and with 16% VAT.

Zongshen added the ZS150-38CII to its ZIG website, that website is so poorly maintained with all sorts of broken links and mismatched specifications. For example the ZS150-38CII is detailed as a 223cc? Somebody must have gotten bored and decided to post some content? They also added the Z-ONE line and the GPR200 aka ZS150-38C

ZS150-38CII
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...0c212dafd5.jpg

ZS150-38C
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...279790cfad.jpg

Not sure what ZIG is doing, it seems like they only add what is new and simply find it too much bother to maintain a complete list of models for each year, they have 2010 and 2012 offerings, but skipped 2011 and have yet to create a 2013 model year.

The GPR150 Zongsehn is a little bit different from the actual Honda CBR150
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...nda/CBR150.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSOTvmOpCGc
I'd love to know what they're saying with the Andy Warhol and Steve Jobbs bit!

if you look on ToaBao you can find exact copies of the CBR 150
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=17472351006

Kennon

They really are not saying very much; other then every once in a while, something comes along that is different, I wonder if cocaine was involved in the making of that video.


A real CBR150 has a DOHC 4-valve water cooled fuel injected engine. They sell at retail for about the same price in South East Asia as the AKT RTX does in Columbia. The Honda 149.4cc engine has quite bit more power then the copies made in China.


Thing about cocaine is it makes things seem better then they really are….

even so i'm surprised how exact the cbr clone is.

Kennon

I think its called "ycr"... Im surprise how Honda haven't act on it yet..... Well maybe because of china's "no copyright policy". If any chinese mc manufacturer will come up w/ an class A imitation of the '13 ninja 250r i will be definitely first in line:) i wont be that surprise though.... They kindda did that with the chinese version of yamaha R6 and R1.... It sells around 18k now......

Honda must be flattered that most the motorcycles in china are based on a honda engine but annoyed that its not there products being bought.

Kennon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xtoss

I think its called "ycr"... Im surprise how Honda haven't act on it yet..... Well maybe because of china's "no copyright policy". If any chinese mc manufacturer will come up w/ an class A imitation of the '13 ninja 250r i will be definitely first in line:) i wont be that surprise though.... They kindda did that with the chinese version of yamaha R6 and R1.... It sells around 18k now......

---

they did...not sure if you can get one in china though.
http://www.hisunmotors.com/VETTURINO-250-SPORT-BIKE.html#.VoB4FBUrK1s

There is allot of content on the matter…here is one article of many.


http://www.managingip.com/Article/27...and-Honda.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kennon

Honda must be flattered that most the motorcycles in china are based on a honda engine but annoyed that its not there products being bought.

Kennon

---

Honda has about 8% of the domestic market in Wuyang and Sundiro, Suzuki and its partners have a larger market share.
Honda's also command higher retail prices then the domestic brands and in that they likely make more profit. There must be some reason Honda does not manufacture more in china, maybe they see something nobody else does? Maybe the lion share of sales are very basic transportation.

They choose what to make and where to make them very conservatively, they have to be centric to global markets, they like Thailand for that center of affordable manufacturing. They use decision making criteria that optimizes profit and minimizes risks.


Zonghen also has a venture in Thailand and the lack of refinement, of that very expensive endeavor, is apparent in the JV’s website.
http://www.zongshenthailand.com/


Thailand allows solely owned foreign operation, in the face of Asian financial crisis of 1997 Thailand did two things, they began to allow direct solely owned manufacturing and also reduced the corporate taxes.
The results of that are obvious today.

Ryuka Z-ONE RK200




Something is wrong, bet when you attempt to communicate from Chinese to Thai and back it all goes to the wrong place? They have not updated the Thai website since 2011? Solution…put the new offerings on face book?




That is a Z-one with a 200cc OHC engine, my guess is it will be eventually offered in Thailand.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...97793554_n.jpg
That engine case looks familar...also comes in a 223cc OHC

The Zongshen RX3 is soon to be released…
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...shen/RX3-3.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...shen/RX3-1.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...shen/RX3-6.jpg

The engine in the RX3 is Zongshen’s NC250, same as the engine used in the SSR 250 motocross, the SSR is an AsiaWing copy of a Honda CRF450 frame.


http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...c433fb74a7.jpg


The SSR is being sold in the US for about $3,300.00.

I would like a green one….

The rumored price of the GS250GY-3 is 29000 RMB in China, $4,725.00 USD.


I gleaned that bit out of this article on Chinamotorworld; titled WINGS ARE SPREADED (SIC), is that bad grammar, to me it came off as that, not a commonly accepted form of the verb.

That link to the interview makes some claims, such as growth in sales at 35% for 2013, production is actually not sales, however negative or marginal year on year growth rates in prodcution does not or should not be ever forecasted into double digit positive growth rates. Not unless there is a merger or acquisition? Simply put it is not happening in reality for 2013 the year forecasting of 35% growth is not happening.


The growth for the first quarter of 2013 is actually negative.

No.	Company	This month cumulative (units)	Last year Cumulative (units)	Accumulated over the same period Growth (%)	This month cumulative total ratio (%)
6	Zongshen Industrial Group Co., Ltd.	356679	359204	-0.7	4.86

Making more does not mater as much as the margins made on each unit, that translates into profit margins.
It is entirely possible to make less and make more profit, that’s a matter of better offerings that sell for more. But in order to be profitable then all costs are allocated across all units of production.
The total unit(s) revenue less the total unit(s) cost. The revenue for one less the cost to make that one represents the profit on each one.


Thing is that once an erroneous claim is made, like a 35% growth and then it does not happen, then the statement discounts all else that is said.


Any additional costs, such as advertising or technical documentation, warranty accounts all add costs to each unit. So in that the use of technology and manufacturing process management linked into such systems makes the value chain and all related functional departments more efficient. The added cost to each unit becomes less when the system is the best it can be.


They, that being all of these manufactures cannot take giant leaps without refining the process first. If they do they will not grow profits they will likely get displaced in the market by the companies that are doing it correctly.


Thats about quality control and also after market support systems. It has to be a coded system from the onset in production that is used down the line into sales, they have to track it all intelligently. The results all displayed in real numbers.

I was happy to see that Mr. Zhu acknowledges that the industry in China needs to take a look at itself, which he has been doing. I liked how he rode his own product, and a 'lowly' scooter at that, in the contest on the fastest way around the city.

I think he was hinting that several of the bigger players in China lack passion for their product. I remember 'Crazy Carl' mentioning this on his trip to Qingqi a few years ago; the company run by people who did not use their own products. Of course, this attitude could have to do with how motorcycles were perceived in China as being predominantly poorer peoples' transportation, at least a few years ago. Which again, makes Mr. Zhu riding a scooter, a fairly big deal.

M1NSK is offering the new Zongshen as their TRX300, it is selling for 4000 USD.
They are currently selling them for a rally across Russia. (click on the ad)
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...19d050edc7.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...e6d917f2c7.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...6d3b1a3c91.jpg

Its interesting, Zongshen has some good partnerships.


In Brazil they are involved in a JV with Hyosung through Kasinski, they assemble in Brazil.
Brazil is a highly regulated market and in that prices are inflated, inflated meaning unreal as in not grounded in real economic forces. Too much regulations have a racketing effect, in that they are inflationary.


The price of this 150cc Dual Sport….in Brazil is $2,850.00 USD. The only viable solution is allowing direct foreign investment and also lowered corporate taxation. governments need to be more streamline and more efficient, they need to back off industry taxes. Brazil does not have high median wages, so when prices are high they end up paying more as a percentage of income, then demanding more to buy more. That is inflationary, it is a racketing effect.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...shen/150-1.jpg


Lowering wages seems counter-intuitive, but actually if done comprehensively it actually can increase each individuals purchasing power. If mitigated with tiered taxes on profits that can mitigate, could even ground profits to percentages, then making more is the only way to earn more. In that the underclass gets addressed.


Raising wages is counter productive, seeking a grounding point based on multivariate equations or purchasing power and related necessities is progressive.

The value of the Real is falling, which is bad for importing and good for exporting.
The CB300R is selling for 11900 Reals in Brazil, that is about 5k USD.


Article from last year….
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoz...best-to-worst/


Brazil Honda could export the CB300R, to the USA, EU and even China? They certainly cost less then 5K American to make and all things being equal (parity), the selling of the Kawasaki’s could theoretically be followed with Honda importing its Brazilian models. They should and Honda should market them as the Real Deal.

Zongshen is advertising these on Taobao for about 2k USD.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...f.jpg~original

These bikes seem more interesting to me than their sport tourer they had in the US a few years ago. They sold a few here primarily to newcomers to sports bikes, which seemed to coincide with the popularity of the 'stunting' trend here at the time.

I like that Minsk partnership bike; that would make for an interesting bike worldwide, provided the price remains "Chinese" whatever that translates into the various countries.

I hope that Mr Zongshen keeps with his credo of increasing quality while keeping the price point low enough. I am still impressed that he rode one of his company's scooters in that PR stunt contest of the quickest way around. He could have used one of his more high end bikes, but used a scooter instead.

they even copied the Honda color scheme.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DjdDhb0VtW...00R+Branca.jpg