Sport bikes 250cc and up

about getting the bikes parts in future... thats why im trying hard to find some legit dealers who can cover that issue for me. Since Murata is a respectable dealer im looking forward meeting him.

And for the fairings man and afraid of droping your bike, "sliders" would be a perfect solution for your problem. It will definitely protect your fairings for a average drop but quite useless for a serious crash. U can get the original one with 600+ rmb or so or settle for the lower quality which is cheaper. Anyway you go it will help.

If you guys posting and reading this thread took some time to actually search and read some of the in-depth threads where motorcycles and China are discussed at length then you would find most of the answers to the questions and points of contention that has been raised... a fool and his money are easily parted, and by the sounds of what I HAVE READ in this thread, sounds highly likely. A quick rule of thumb about judging whether any motorcycle imported into China is legit (i.e. a motorcycle not manufactured in PRC) ...simply multiply the MSRP price of the bike in the USA market by two (then convert that amount to RMB) and if the China price is above that figure (double the USA new MSRP) you have calculated then it is likely legally imported. The next aspect is whether a legal invoice is supplied with the bike on purchase AND it can be legally plated in your name in the city you are residing in (provided that the city in question allows/issues motorcycle plates). If they can't supply a legal invoice, and or tell some story about the bike can't be put into your name (your Chinese name) and has to be in someone elses Chinese name, and in another province then it is almost likely not 100% legit. And lastly, many sellers here in mainland China will make all kinds of promises to get a potential buyer to part with their moolah, but often those promises are empty... as will be your wallet/pocket. Even local Chinese are tricked by some of these sellers.

Example:
Bike X imported in China looks like a great buy... imported model near new or new at CNY100K.
Price of Bike X in China is CNY100K from some "dealer" (taobao or bricks and mortar dealer - whatever)
The USA MSRP of Bike X is equivalent to CNY100K after factoring in exchange rate
But with the actual addition of duties, taxes and one off CNY30K the real cost should be at least CNY200K since the addition of the extras would be additional to the base CNY100K not including any profit for a dealer.... therefore... (MSRP CNY100K + CNY100K [duties/taxes/fees] = CNY200K
It is simple to see that Bike X is likely not a legally imported bike after all... at the asking price of CNY100K
This example may seem overly simplistic but it's just an example... and I know these facts as I have been through the exercise to import a new XT1200Z from OZ to PRC, and a friend also decided to import a new 1200GSA from EU to PRC but after the shock of the 100% plus additional [duties/taxes/fees] over and above the purchase price not including any costs for freight etc, he has given up.

But if you guys bothered to search MCM you'd find this information out for yourselves... and if you NOOB guys think that for a moment you can LEGALLY land a Thai manufactured bike in China for MSRP plus 17%.. and get it compliant, you are deluding yourselves!

All motorcycles registered in China have to have a CCC mark the manufacturer has to apply for it, there are testing requirements, there are also factory inspections required the CQC Chinese quality certification centre sends a representative to the factory…the results reviewed and conclusions result in either changes and additional review or certification.

So how can anyone sell imports without the above process being sponsored through the factories and its authorized agent, that being the manufacturer and its authorized distributor?

A similar process is done for emissions, without these certificates registration would be illegal.

Loncin will be distributing Kawasaki in China or at least the two have signed a letter of intention intending to do so.
So there is allot that has to be done before that can happen, each models has to be tested for CCC and Emissions, then imported and unless China and Thailand have signed some new trade agreement the bikes made in Thailand would be taxed at either 40 or 45% depending on displacement. Plus other fees above that like the 17% VAT and also add some in for profit, they will not be inexpensive and in that probably not that popular, since the top income earners kids will not want them, do not ask who they are, but rumor has it they control everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bikerdoc

[...] A quick rule of thumb about judging whether any motorcycle imported into China is legit (i.e. a motorcycle not manufactured in PRC) ...simply multiply the MSRP price of the bike in the USA market by two [...] If they can't supply a legal invoice, and or tell some story about the bike can't be put into your name (your Chinese name) and has to be in someone elses Chinese name, and in another province then it is almost likely not 100% legit. [...] a friend also decided to import a new 1200GSA from EU to PRC but after the shock of the 100% plus additional [duties/taxes/fees] over and above the purchase price not including any costs for freight etc, he has given up.

But if you guys bothered to search MCM you'd find this information out for yourselves... and if you NOOB guys think that for a moment you can LEGALLY land a Thai manufactured bike in China for MSRP plus 17%.. and get it compliant, you are deluding yourselves!

---

We are aware of the x2 rule of thumb, just looking for ways around it, like everyone...

I'm sorry u and ur friend didn't find no way around this.

We also are aware about how legit are the "not in ur name but it's ok" deals.

Thank u for taking the time to share here with us n00bs, although u took the time to create a thread about imports already.

We read ur thread with interest.

It is not that we don't believe u or don't understand.

I believe relations can help here, & I don't have any, so I look for people who may have.

- - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

Loncin will be distributing Kawasaki in China or at least the two have signed a letter of intention intending to do so.
So there is allot that has to be done before that can happen, each models has to be tested for CCC and Emissions, then imported and unless China and Thailand have signed some new trade agreement the bikes made in Thailand would be taxed at either 40 or 45% depending on displacement. Plus other fees above that like the 17% VAT and also add some in for profit, they will not be inexpensive and in that probably not that popular, since the top income earners kids will not want them, do not ask who they are, but rumor has it they control everything.

---

40 to 45% sucks, but is better than 100%, I hope it's even less now.

I'm not surprised about them "kids" u mention & how much power they may have.

Thank u for ur valuable input and for how u share it.

making a breakthough, fingers crossed.

2013 CB500F, also X and R versions. To compete on price it would need to be made in China probably not Thailand.
This is all I would need, at 34 KW (47hp) it isn't a missile. Surely Sundiro or Wuyang could manufacture the thing here. If US price is US$ 5499 = 34,217 RMB, China surely 30,000RMB would be possible if domestically manufactured? I think a Thai import CB500 would be 60,000RMB legit import, best case scenario.

Attachment 9941

General information
Model:	Honda CB500F
Year:	2013
Category:	Naked bike
Price as new (MSRP):	US$ 5499 = 34,217 RMB
Engine and transmission
Displacement:	471.00 ccm (28.74 cubic inches)
Engine type:	Twin, four-stroke
Power:	46.94 HP (34.3 kW)) @ 8500 RPM
Torque:	43.00 Nm (4.4 kgf-m or 31.7 ft.lbs) @ 7000 RPM
Compression:	10.7:1
Bore x stroke:	67.0 x 66.8 mm (2.6 x 2.6 inches)
Valves per cylinder:	4
Fuel system:	Injection
Cooling system:	Liquid
Gearbox:	6-speed
Transmission type, final drive:	Chain
Clutch:	Wet multiplate
Fuel consumption:	3.70 litres/100 km (27.0 km/l or 63.57 mpg)
Greenhouse gases:	85.8 CO2 g/km. (CO2 - Carbon dioxide emission)
Exhaust system:	2-1 manifold with Catalyst and 02 feedback
Chassis, suspension, brakes and wheels
Frame type:	Steel, Diamond.
Front suspension:	Conventional Telescopic Front Forks, 41mm
Rear suspension:	Prolink mono with 9-stage Preload adjuster, steel square pipe swingarm
Front tyre dimensions:	120/70-ZR17
Rear tyre dimensions:	160/60-ZR17
Front brakes:	Single disc
Front brakes diameter:	320 mm (12.6 inches)
Rear brakes:	Single disc
Rear brakes diameter:	240 mm (9.4 inches)
Physical measures and capacities
Dry weight:	173.4 kg (382.3 pounds)
Weight incl. oil, gas, etc:	190.0 kg (418.9 pounds)
Power/weight ratio:	0.2707 HP/kg
Seat height:	790 mm (31.1 inches) If adjustable, lowest setting.
Overall height:	1,060 mm (41.7 inches)
Overall length:	2,075 mm (81.7 inches)
Overall width:	780 mm (30.7 inches)
Ground clearance:	155 mm (6.1 inches)
Wheelbase:	1,410 mm (55.5 inches)
Fuel capacity:	15.70 litres (4.15 gallons)
Oil capacity:	3.20 litres (0.21 quarts)

Went to see Murata today, there was the assistant, she told me they can't get an answer for the Ninja 300 before the 31st of Jan.

Also asked about the CB500F, thx for full & sweet specs above, hope to get a positive answer & a price by 31st also.

Cant wait.....:)

I am not trying to burst any bubbles but a Ninja 250 imported from Thailand to China would run $11,223.00
I am not guessing that is what it would cost.

Importing from:	Thailand
Importing to:	China

2

The type of product, its value and where it was manufactured

Product description:	Motorcycle
Product category:	Engine Capacity: 126 - 250 cc - Exceeding 190 cc but not exceeding 250 cc (87112050)
Product value:	US$5315.68
Country of manufacture:	Thailand

3

The cost of shipping and insurance of importing

Shipping costs:	US$1000.00
Insurance costs:	US$100.00

Calculation results

Total customs value:	CH¥39923.90
- Duty:	CH¥17965.75
- Consumption tax:	CH¥1790.40
- VAT:	CH¥10145.61
Total import duty & taxes due:	CH¥29901.77
Total landed cost:	CH¥69825.66 at USD/CNY exchange rate of 6.2229

Calculation notes


Notes on duty & taxes rates

• Motorcycle has an import duty rate of 45% and VAT rate of 17% , Consumption Tax rate is 3%.

Notes on import taxes due

• Please note that your shipping provider may add an additional handling fee

The motorcycle would need to have a CCC tag and also a tag stating it meets Chinese emission standards, I do not think that is possible without Kawasaki as the manufacturer attaining those certificates?

As my CH sucks, plz don't quote me on this.

I've been told some taxes (17% => VAT???) could be nulled using my Alien Employment Permit.

Ever heard something of the sort?

- - -

Now, ur suggestion about a dealer saying CNY 50K, have me pay 20K deposit, and then force me to pay later "unexpected" fees to a CNY 100K total is scary, but not so hard to imagine...

Can't just whoever needs them certificates to allow the bike to be plated take presents instead of certificates? No so hard to imagine either...

I don't know what to think anymore.

U bursted my bubble.

You could contact Loncin and ask if they will be importing for Kawasaki and if so when. Contact Kawasaki and ask if they will be importing to china and if so when.


They left it all at a letter of intention, ideally they would be encouraged if they had literally thousands of emails asking when?

I guess I should eat my own words honda have just annouced a sleeved down version of the CB500,CBR500, CB500x in 400cc capacity
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/02/0...series-engine/

Kennon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

You could contact Loncin and ask if they will be importing for Kawasaki and if so when. Contact Kawasaki and ask if they will be importing to china and if so when.


They left it all at a letter of intention, ideally they would be encouraged if they had literally thousands of emails asking when?

---

Um, unlikely... China is all about volume when it comes to products. Tens of thousands, maybe, hundreds of thousands, then possibly... but I wouldn't count on it. China presents a significant hurdle to importers unless there is something in it for the Chinese side, or the Chinese (substantial business influences or Govt. level) want it, or there is a FTA in place (even though the ones I have read are fairly one sided in favour of the Chinese side).

Kawasaki signed a letter of intent with Loncin in July of this year.

the deal between kawasaki and loncin is over..... my day keeps getting worse!

still.... there's no way for us get a taste of those badboys!.....

I had feeling that would not go anywhere.
http://www.khi.co.jp/news/detail/20130118_1.html

I like the new Z250
http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gall...o-medium_1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xtoss

the deal between kawasaki and loncin is over..... my day keeps getting worse!

---

Here's the story in English, Nikkei...

sad.

Quote:

---

Kawasaki Heavy China Motorcycle Tie-Up Over Before It Began

TOKYO (Nikkei)--Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd. (7012) said Friday that it will dissolve a basic partnership agreement with Loncin Motor Co. on motorcycle production and sales in China.


Since forging the agreement last June, the two companies had been discussing setting up a production site and joint venture to handle sales operations, but they failed to come to terms on details of the arrangement. Loncin is one of China's leading motorcycle manufacturers.


The Japanese firm had withdrawn from the Chinese motorcycle market in 2000. But with income levels for China's middle class on the rise, it was planning to release its mainstay midsize to large motorcycles through the partnership with Loncin.


Kawasaki Heavy has not revealed the specifics of the dissolution, but said the decision was not influenced by the dispute between the two countries over the Senkaku Islands.


(The Nikkei, Jan. 19 morning edition)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

Here's the story in English, Nikkei...

sad.

---

that SUCKS!!! :(

Latest news.

Murata shop claims they can get:

- Ninja 250 in April for 42K.
- Z 250 in October for 39K.
- Kawa 600 or 650 (which?), didn't ask price nor exact model or available time, sory.

That is much less than the usual msrp x2...

Attachment 10250

They need 2 months to get the bike here.

Voila... This is what they claim.

I'm not 100% decided yet.

The Z250 will begin shipping to dealers in March 2013, its an Indonesian model. The retail price in Indonesian is $5,000.00 USD.

From where to where you import


Edit

Importing from:	Indonesia
Importing to:	China

2

The type of product, its value and where it was manufactured


Edit

Product description:	Z250
Product category:	Engine Capacity: 126 - 250 cc - Exceeding 190 cc but not exceeding 250 cc (87112050)
Product value:	US$5000.00
Country of manufacture:	Indonesia

3

The cost of shipping and insurance of importing


Edit

Shipping costs:	US$1000.00
Insurance costs:	US$100.00

Calculation results


Edit

Total customs value:	CH¥38047.97
- Duty:	CH¥17121.59
- Consumption tax:	CH¥1706.27
- VAT:	CH¥9668.89
Total import duty & taxes due:	CH¥28496.75
Total landed cost:	CH¥66544.72 at USD/CNY exchange rate of 6.2374

Calculation notes


Notes on duty & taxes rates

• Z250 has an import duty rate of 45% and VAT rate of 17%, Consumption Tax rate is 3%.

Notes on import taxes due

• Please note that your shipping provider may add an additional handling fee

Isn't the Ninja 250 now the Ninja 300? So they are selling old stock? Honestly we need a reliable 400-500cc displacement Japanese bike like the new CB500. China already has the GW250, and personally I think a Chinese GW250 and Indonesian Ninja 250 are about the same in quality terms, albeit the GW is a much nicer price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

The Z250 will begin shipping to dealers in March 2013, its an Indonesian model. The retail price in Indonesian is $5,000.00 USD.
2From where to where you import

Edit

Importing from:	Indonesia
Importing to:	China

The type of product, its value and where it was manufactured


Edit

Product description:	Z250
Product category:	Engine Capacity: 126 - 250 cc - Exceeding 190 cc but not exceeding 250 cc (87112050)
Product value:	US$5000.00
Country of manufacture:	Indonesia

3

The cost of shipping and insurance of importing


Edit

Shipping costs:	US$1000.00
Insurance costs:	US$100.00

Please note that your shipping provider may add an additional handling feeZ250 has an import duty rate of 45% and VAT rate of 17%, Consumption Tax rate is 3%.Calculation results

Edit

Total customs value:	CH¥38047.97
- Duty:	CH¥17121.59
- Consumption tax:	CH¥1706.27
- VAT:	CH¥9668.89
Total import duty & taxes due:	CH¥28496.75
Total landed cost:	CH¥66544.72 at USD/CNY exchange rate of 6.2374

Calculation notes

Notes on duty & taxes rates
Notes on import taxes due

---

There is an additional one off fee of CNY30,000 to be applied to the calculation above. It is a base fee, not calculated on the value of the bike being imported. Therefore irrespective if the bike is worth US$1,000 or US1,000,000 the special one of importation fee remains at CNY30,000. I will dig up the name of the "fee" if I can find the information. I just recall it is payable and in addition to the taxes based on the MSRP (and the MSRP is as DEFINED by the relevant Chinese authorities).

Quote:

---

There is an additional one off fee of CNY30,000 to be applied to the calculation above. It is a base fee, not calculated on the value of the bike being imported. Therefore irrespective if the bike is worth US$1,000 or US1,000,000 the special one of importation fee remains at CNY30,000. I will dig up the name of the "fee" if I can find the information. I just recall it is payable and in addition to the taxes based on the MSRP (and the MSRP is as DEFINED by the relevant Chinese authorities).

---

In other words a country that makes a huge living from exports has massive tariffs on imports, complete hypocrisy, and the governments of other countries are stupid enough to let them get away with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZMC888

Isn't the Ninja 250 now the Ninja 300? So they are selling old stock? Honestly we need a reliable 400-500cc displacement Japanese bike like the new CB500. China already has the GW250, and personally I think a Chinese GW250 and Indonesian Ninja 250 are about the same in quality terms, albeit the GW is a much nicer price.

---

Yea a Japanese 400 or 500 locally made would solve many riders problems.

Sadly, it seems you, me, and whoever else who would love such a bike are not enough customers to create a market...


No old stocks; Ninja 300 is only for western markets, sadly.

The new Ninja 250 is indonesia only (mayb India too, dunno).

"""The updated 249cc Parallel Twin engine receives new sleeveless die-cast cylinders as well as updated pistons, crankcases and a new exhaust. The 2013 Kawasaki Ninja 250 makes use of dual throttle valves like its big brothers the ZX-10R and ZX-6R. According to Kawasaki, the second ECU-controlled throttle valve helps to regulate intake airflow for a linear response, more efficient combustion and added power. [...] Kawasaki also updated the Ninja 250 with a new diamond-style frame that is said to be stiffer than the previous frame."""

GW 250 & Ninja 250 are about same quality, I'd say so too, but this and displacement's gotta be the only commun thing the bikes have;

Because I know little about bikes, weight/power ratio is how I measure & compare them.

GW = 182 kg / 24 hp (7.58 kg/hp) - Nj 250 = 174 kg / 32 hp (5.44 kg/hp)

Here the difference is huge, and warrants 42K against 26K to me cause I already have a 165 kg / 20 hp (8.25 kg/hp) 250cc bike.

- - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

[...]

Total landed cost:

CH¥66544.72 at USD/CNY exchange rate of 6.2374

[...]

---

I knew u would say that...

These people are motorcycle centered, they go out in parades for biking events together, they're Japanese, I feel inclined to trust them.

I believe and trust you also, clearly ur goal is to warn me about what u know is truth against a potential scam.

But they have a bike at the end of their promises, and you have me without a bike, or me without 2 times the $ that bike's worth and a bike...

Thank you for ur warnings.

You too bikerdoc, thank you for keeping an eye on the n00b guys.

Although u have me without 3 times the $ that bike's worth at the end... Ouch.

I'll try to comfront the Murata shop owner with ur info and see what he has to answer.

Do u calculate the total price with a onboard program or on a website?

Go ahead and trust them maybe they are a ninkyo dantai?

Quote:

---

Here the difference is huge, and warrants 42K against 26K to me cause I already have a 165 kg / 20 hp (8.25 kg/hp) 250cc bike.

---

You can get the Benelli 600 for 37,000, latest quote I got. Also made in China bike is going to have more spares. Although I agree a Ninja is much more powerful than the Suzuki, really though if the Suzuki is 24,000 then the Ninja is worth maybe 30,000.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by braillce

Murata's Japanese bikes on West Tianshan Rd (north side of the street), between Beiyu Rd and Pusong Rd, Near the Middle ring, in front of Beixinjing Subway station (Line 2).
They can get u anything if u got the $...

---

Looked at a Tianshan Road bike shop today, same shady feel as the bike shops out at the Shanghai Tianma Track.... is that the shop you mention I wonder?