Recomendation for Dual-sport Bike for Trip from China to Europe

Slightly off-topic, slightly on-topic rant.

Re: China not recognizing overseas driving licenses.

I've been away from my home country (Canada) for a long time, as a non-resident (of Canada). Hence, my Canadian driving license expired several years ago (I couldn't renew it because I am a non-resident). I hold a 10 year China driving license (you get 10 years after one's initial 6 year expires, if one has been a good boy).

So, I am recently in Canada. British Columbia recognizes a Chinese driving license, and one can drive with it for 6 months (as a tourist) or 3 months (as a new resident), before needing to get a local DL. Further, I can easily exchange my Chinese driving license for a new BC driving license. I've heard the same exists for most (if not all) Canadian provinces and US states.

Interestingly, though, because China is not a party to the IDP convention, I cannot get an IDP in China. In fact, the Canadian police know that if they stop a Chinese person, who shows an IDP along with a Chinese DL, that the documents are most likely false (gee ... really? False documents out of China?). So, instead, there are these "official translators" who do a Chinese DL translation for 50 bucks. Still, I can drive around with my Chinese DL for several months, no problem.

Reciprocity? Hah! Yeah right.

So, I asked a local official (Beijing) about this ... his deadpan response was "well, Canadians won't have the special training & skills needed for driving in China." Seriously buddy? I kept my mouth shut, but felt like asking him ... Ever been to Richmond, BC, and seen all the Chinese drivers exercising their "special skills & training"?

Anyways, I doubt I will see it in my lifetime where China opens up and recognizes overseas driving licenses.

This link to Motorhome China PRC DL for visitors to PRC, looked promising, until one looks at the picture of the DL near the bottom of the webpage. Note the title of the DL... 'Provisional Driving Permit' and importantly note the red stamp 'Operation of Rental Car Only' aside from the period of validity which appears to be one month, too bad. Also this is for BJ, doesn't mean that the same can be done elsewhere. One kingdoOm, multiple empires.

Attachment 15275

This ZYUE SH link is useful to understand the process and relevant Simplified Ch!nese used throughout used in Shanghai... 'cause all things being equal, Ch!na does not practice equality.

The Yabroad website is useful for understanding how one gets a PRC DL, but read the question posed at the bottom of the webpage...

Q: "can i get a drivers license with only a tourist visa or do i need a Chinese ID card/ work permit?"
​jack_russell_dog 2013-11-08 14:18:53

A: "I haven't seen any regulations specifying with which types of visa one may apply for a license; but I'm optimistic about getting a license even if you're holding a tourist visa. If you can't get one by yourself you can ask an agency to do it for you, like this one: http://www.zyue.com/zhuanti/huanjiazhao/ Good luck!" Daoyuan Li 2013-11-08 14:29:33

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Laos/Thailand (and Cambodia) aren't really a problem, especially if you have the proper permission letter also written in English, copies of her ID Card, etc. Those borders are comparatively easy crossings, with many travelers on bike and in cars doing it every day. In fact, I know that many illegal bikes with fake paperwork commonly cross.

Mongolia is also doable, at predetermined crossings, although the Mongolian Embassy strongly recommends that one has an "official translation" of each of the registration documents and permission letter (done by the Embassy, of course, for $50 US per document).

Where it gets tricky is when you get further afield. Speaking from experience, border guards have tremendous discretion - if they want to make your life difficult, because they had a fight with their wife, or because they didn't get their coffee break, they will.

There are reports over on HUBB about people getting stranded in no-man's land (that common stretch of a km, or two found between many border crossings), where the entering country said "nope, can't come in" and the exiting country saying "nope, can't come back". I can't recall which forum/blog I read it on, but two Chinese bikes heading into Mongolia were caught in this mess, and they were forced to sell their bikes to the "kind & considerate" border guards who offered them 10 cents on the dollar.

Then again, other crossing reports say "they didn't even ask to see my DL or registration".

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Thank you for posting I think you are correct the country that I am planing to visit should
Be ok with what documents I have at hand .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

You could get a new 125cc-150cc bike trail(ish) for about $1200-$1400. A real YBR125G is your best bet, or maybe a factory Jialing JH125 or 150.

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I think from reading about them the Jialing should be high on your list of bikes. The founder of this site, Carl Parker, did a long trip on a Jialing 150 and others have owned them and seemed to have very good results judging by their posts.

Thanks for the information, sorry I can't respond more fully just now.

We're considering crossing China on trains, possibly with folding bicycles. When we cross into Kyrgyzstan, we'd get a bike there. It's hard to weight up the risks of driving without a license, have been trawling the forums this-afternoon. If anyone has some more advice or information about this, it would be really helpful, you could PM us if you'd rather.

David, the problem is the rules are not consistently enforced. We know a French guy who bought a stolen (from HK) Suzuki Gixxer 600 in Shanghai, no license, plates, insurance........nothing. He was welcomed onto the freeway towards Beijing for free by traffic police, go figure! Another guy had a motorcycle license and a car license but rode out of class with a three-wheeler in Shanghai and ended up in a detention center.

My opinion is outside of a big city you're 95% safe....unless you have an accident, particularly with an ebike, bicycle or pedestrian you could have a bad day.

So on this site we have a real problem giving advice. Do we tell people to break the law, or do we hit them with the rule book as it's written? Sucks but that's how it is.

I did some more digging online today about the driving license.

If we can get a 60-day or better, a 90-day visa, seems I can sit the computerised test and get a real license quite easily in about 5 days:

"""You can get a license on a tourist visa. I did in April 2013. You just need a residence certificate. This is not a residence permit, which is the same thing as a work visa. A residence certificate is just a document the police give you when you go to register your apartment at the police office. There are also some other documents you need to have like photocopies of your passport (photo page and visa/entry stamp pages), photos (you can get them there), and the approved translation of your foreign drivers license.

The test itself is in English. The questions as of the new 2013 test are totally reasonable. All the odd questions about first aid, what to do if you are submerged in water, how to jump out of the window, etc are gone."""

http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/t...license?page=2

Need to figure out if I could get a residence certificate though.

In the comments on this page ( http://teachabroadchina.com/riding-m...cles-in-china/ ) some people claim a Hong Kong driver's license is valid in China, and you can convert your exisiting license in Hong Kong for $120 USD. ( http://www.td.gov.hk/en/public_servi...ving_licence_/ ). Others say this is not true. WikiTravel says a HK license is not valid in China (http://wikitravel.org/en/Driving_in_China#Licences).

On this page ( http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/t...riving_license ) it says a HK license would allow you to skip taking the written and practical tests in getting a PRC DL, but only in Guangdong, which recognizes a HK DL.

"""...the required docs were as followings,

1. HKDL original and two A4 copies of the front and back the same.

2. Visa permitting 3 month stay or longer. And copies of your passport and visa.

3. Shenzhen resident card from the PSB, to prove that you are indeed a Guangdong resident.

3. 2x photo and one digitized photo sent to the licensing dept.

4. Medical certificate from a approved hospital.

5. Money :-) about 600ish and takes a 3 day wait."""

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Any input or help welcome :-)

A used bike would allow us to sidestep the problem of registering the bike in our name, plus maybe save some money and the 'teething problems' associated with poorly assembled new bikes. What are the sites for classified ads in the area around Guangzhou?

I guess we would try to get a notarized translation of the Bill-of Sale (into Russian and English), with photocopies of his and my passports. Also translations of the registration documents. Hopefully this should be enough for the border crossings.

Didn't get around to getting the visa in Manila, so will have to try in Macau or Hong-Kong.

Hong Kong seems pretty alright still, but you only get a 30-day single-entry visa. ( https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntr...ng-kong?page=2 )

Kind of related....
http://doherty.net.au

You might be lucky, you might be able to get a DL in 5 days, you might be able to organise to sit the test in fairly quick succession after arrival, you might be able to get a longer duration visa that might then give you the duration of stay that then might make you eligible for a foreign D/L -> PRC D/L conversion, you might be able to find someone willing to sell you a bike and not worry about the plate (actually out of all the might's this is almost a certainty), you might be able to find someone who can fudge you an apartment or some such rental agreement that then, might allow you to go register in the approved PSB that keeps a register of foreigners (given that not all PSB Stations can). You might be able to get a HK D/L just so you might be able to convert that to a PRC D/L... and you might be able to do that without needing to sit a written/computerised D/L test. You might be able to get M/C insurance in your name even if a M/C is another persons name (this is a little trickier to accomplish)... you might be able to accomplish all of this with a dependable/reliable MC on the US$1000 budget you set yourself... - I've my doubts...

:popcorn:

As stated previously and elsewhere PRC is one big country full of little kingdoOms, each little territory, village, district, town, city, province, makes its own set of 'rules' which may or may not be enforced, and then there is the big mother-ship... one set of regulations and rules in one jurisdiction may or may not apply elsewhere.

Kudos to you though if you can pull it all off.

:scooter:

Want an "easier" adventure? Bicycle it.

A guy I play good ole bluegrass with used to lead bike tours from London -> Beijing. Doable.

I bought a pair of Giant MTBs off a couple of guys from San Fransisco who flew into Urumqi and rode to Beijing. The pair only had a total of 3 flats, and no other trouble.

It can easily fall within your budget, no license/registration/insurance required, and a great adventure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Kind of related....
http://doherty.net.au

You might be lucky, you might be able to get a DL in 5 days, you might be able to organise to sit the test in fairly quick succession after arrival, you might be able to get a longer duration visa that might then give you the duration of stay that then might make you eligible for a foreign D/L -> PRC D/L conversion, you might be able to find someone willing to sell you a bike and not worry about the plate (actually out of all the might's this is almost a certainty), you might be able to find someone who can fudge you an apartment or some such rental agreement that then, might allow you to go register in the approved PSB that keeps a register of foreigners (given that not all PSB Stations can). You might be able to get a HK D/L just so you might be able to convert that to a PRC D/L... and you might be able to do that without needing to sit a written/computerised D/L test. You might be able to get M/C insurance in your name even if a M/C is another persons name (this is a little trickier to accomplish)... you might be able to accomplish all of this with a dependable/reliable MC on the US$1000 budget you set yourself... - I've my doubts...

:popcorn:

As stated previously and elsewhere PRC is one big country full of little kingdoOms, each little territory, village, district, town, city, province, makes its own set of 'rules' which may or may not be enforced, and then there is the big mother-ship... one set of regulations and rules in one jurisdiction may or may not apply elsewhere.

Kudos to you though if you can pull it all off.

:scooter:

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Llllooooaaaadddd of might in your post Doc could it be (He MIGHT be just dreaming?)

but as you say good luck or maybe might be good luck :naughty:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=1...1.17.12.oJal2X


or get two of these , totally under the radar

Today arrived in macau. We handed our documents over to CTS (China travel service) and will get 30 day visa tomorrow 4pm. Cost 420 mop each (about $50 USD). Longer tourist visas not available. Will probably start awake all night or find a cardboard box tonight for some sleep :-), don't feel like paying big money for a hotel, more out of principle than anything (were used to paying $10 USD a night for a room). Maybe later well light a fire in a trashbin and fry up some roadkill.

We met a few cyclists in the hostel in Kuala Lumpur yesterday, they cycled across China on the same route. Don't know, cycling never really appealed much, you seem to get kind of stinky and spend all your time cycling, would probably get too temping to just put the bike on the bus.

@zhu well I showed it to my wife. Can't say she was impressed, i won't quote her.. I liked the idea, would take a little longer, but would we really be any better off legally than on a motorbike? Would probably go two up, she doesn't have any road experience. Did you see 'dumb and dumber'?



Still undecided.

I was kidding really but I had a similar bike in 2007/8 they are basically ignored by the cops and can easily cover 200km / day. Yes very dumb & dumber

w
a

The idea definably has some merit. More fun than cycling. Cheap cheap. Do you think the police would really take it easier on us? Any idea about crossing the border? Do they have papers? Take it to pieces and take it in a box? :-)

Yeah you will get a fapio which proves you own it , it cant be registered but it is known as "little guy" .Nobody takes them seriously or pays any attention to them . I would put it on a truck as parts and carry on once over the border. But that's just me..Seems to me the Chinese have a soft spot for travellers on small shitty bikes.

Or this..

http://newcenturypower.diytrade.com/...ngine_kit.html

It turns a bicycle into a primitive motorcycle. Rather have a bike though.

Sounds good. Maybe use one of those for China then get a Ural in Kyrgyzstan to reclaim my manhood :-).

Drinking beer with Filipinos in Sendai square and stealing WiFi :-)

Those are beautiful , got passed by one once ridden by a 68 year old Chinese man . It seized just after he passed me in a full racing crouch . Great old guy and we had a smoke and a chat while he waited for the two smoke to unseize . ..

Yesterday picked up the visa and crossed into China. Went to the bus station. Given limited time decided to skip on giant metropolis Guangzhou, and head towards guilin area, to start the trip from there. All the buses went already so went to kfc , planned the route for the trip with the guidebook and spent the night there sleeping on the soft seats.. we weren't the only ones, no problem apparently!

This morning bought a bus ticket to Hezhou, leaves in 30 mins, will look for a bike there and get a bit sorted out. The plan is then to head west, via guizhou province into Yunnan, then north as far as Xining. There perhaps put the bike on the train to around urumqi, according to the frenchies (cyclists) that stretch was not so interesting, then head west to kashgar. Will post the route as a photo when I get the chance.

Even with the train.. it's a long way, probably 6000km, so will look for a motorbike I think, used at first.

The plan is to avoid driving in any cities (will park the bike somewhere and get a bus into town. Get the bike docs in order as best I can, other than the license. Hopefully the insurance isn't nullified. If stopped by the police present what I have with a smile. I don't know if 'small gifts' are an option in the countryside (?), and without Chinese can't think it's a good idea.

First impressions of China very good, it seems friendly and people are accommodating to the fact we don't speak Chinese. I think I will visit again later to study the language at some point.

Now in Hezhou. The hotel has a computer in the room! Nice room, AC. They asked for 200, I offered 100 and they accepted. I'm not sure if that's a good price.

I'm off to get some food and look at some bikes. Will try to fish an English speaker too. In addition to obtaining the regular docs (green book, blue book etc.), is there anything else to do when buying a used motorbike other than getting a bill-of-sale? Anything specific that should be on it?

if you have the vin and the rego number you can check to see if there are any outstanding fines against the bike . 100 kuai is a good price for a room with hot water, internet and a/c. Welcome to China

Thanks! We had a good look round today too. There's a lot of bike shops here, a whole long street of them. Here's what we found:

Many many brands, but only a limited number of frames and engine designs. There's the bikes based on the Honda CG125, the bigger OHC Honda, the Yamaha YBR125, the Suzuki GS125, and probably a couple of others I don't recognize. Then there are lots of weird frankensteins.. the Honda engine in the Suzuki frame etc. Didn't see any trail bikes. Also Honda-branded classic 80s CG125 frames with OHC engines.

There was a Yamaha dealer, and they looked good. There was the JYM125, the YB125, the YB125SP, the YBR125.. all sharing the same frame, engine, suspension.. almost everything, just the more expensive models had a few styling extras, cast wheels and a disc brake. The basic model (JYM125) at 6000 rmb seems like good value, only thing against it is a front drum brake, but it looks quite competent.

We found the Jianshe 'copy' of the YBR125 for 6000. Would probably rather buy the Yamaha YJM125 for the same price, basically the same minus the disc brake (and CV carb?).

There were also Honda bikes for similar prices, some of them 150cc. The consensus seems to be the Yamahas are a little better, right?

Ah, also the shops seemed pretty happy to do the registration for us in someone else's name, they could maybe find someone too, didn't seem to be a problem.

We also asked around for used bikes. There was one place with some used bikes, but they weren't that cheap. One of the dealers was selling his personal 2009 Suzuki GS125 (with styling from the 80s). The clock said 14000km, and looked in good shape, docs all in order. He asked for 5000. We offered 3500, but he didn't accept. We might be able to get it for 4000. Is that a good price?

yeah that is a real good price. For the dealer.

There were a few on TaoBao used for 3000-3500. That's the right price, right?

I guess we'll end up getting the Yamaha. It would be a shame to loose it to the police or at the border though then, with a less expensive bike wouldn't feel that bad about it.

What are the sites to look for used bikes?

Getting a new bike registered is not a small job . That is it requires proof of residence and a licence and the right visa and the mood of the Chinese clerk must be right and the moon and stars must be aligned just so. Even then it can take weeks. Buying a used bike which is already registered has many advantages especially in your case, so if you pay over the odds at least you will be on the road.

What route are you planning on taking? Will a 125cc w/o FI be sufficient for the higher altitudes? This is something that's stumping me at the moment..

We understood that to register it in a Chinese persons name takes just one day, they were willing to run off to the police station (or wherever it's done?) right then and do it. A lady who spoke some English interpreted for us, this is what we understood. I don't think we could do it in our name with a 30 day tourist visa? It could be a problem at the border that it's not in our name, but hopefully ok.

The route is across Western China and into Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan then Kazakhstan. At high altitude (say 2000m) the bike looses something like half it's power.. you have to use high revs and full throttle to keep moving.. this is true for FI and non FI, but the FI at least keeps the fuel/air ratio correct, so the engine isn't running, rich, I think. 125cc at altitude two-up on steep inclines will probably be a bit slow going.

There was also a 'Piaggo Zongshen' bike, similar to the YBR but with a honda-derived engine, I think, front disc brake, trail tires and a good rack for 6000. Any info on that bike?

Also, sorry was the Yamaha JYM125, not YJM125.