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Seals was replaced before the trip?
And most of the weight is loaded on the back?
Was in the area so happy to be off some assistance and no more then you ChinaV and most member on MCM would do.
Spot on here .Quote:
The forks are probably not that great to begin with
How a good look at the TR-G and read my review on the bike here on MCM.Quote:
also doing research and switching to a CFMoto 650.
47.000 km covered now and I have been very impressed with the bike.
Link.....http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...50-TR-G-review
Doesn't matter, every time he hits the brakes a huge portion of that load is transferred to the front wheel and suspension. Even worse, the load is piled so high, the center of gravity is exacerbating the load transfer to the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by prince666
Yes I understand now.
I rode 6000km this summer on a 2013 made in China Jianshe Yamaha YBR250, loaded to the freaking brim, I mean I had fully loaded side cases, back case, TWO suitcases on the pillion seat, and a tank bag the size of a backpack, horrendous roads the whole way: zero effect on the suspension.
By "Zero Effect", I assume you mean it didn't cause any leaking seals and the bike handled it fine. I've seen a ton of YBR's (both 125 & 250's) crossing China loaded to the max with happy owners. You can't say that an overloaded bike doesn't effect handling and safety... we've all done it, but it's something to avoid if possible. Over the years, I've been able to minimize the load by investing in good equipment. I've analyzed every item and try to reduce whenever possible. Here's my WR450 loaded for a 2 week camping trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenade
http://www.contactdi.com/2016/IMG_3400.jpg
http://www.contactdi.com/2016/IMG_3385.jpg
http://www.contactdi.com/2016/IMG_3371.jpg
The only thing not shown in the pictures is my clothing, which has to cover conditions from 5-35 degrees Celsius for most of my trips. The Wolfman tool bag has everything I need for a complete disassembly of the bike if necessary.
That's one hell of a pack!
off topic for a bit here, how come with some picture posts, I can only see the left 1/2 of the photos? For instance the above ChinaV post.
cos the site is simple and doesnt scale pictures. Press and hold Ctrl and scroll your mouse if youre using chrome
Yes this bike is heavily loaded. But I would not have considered it "completely Overloaded" I have ridden tens of thousands of miles on smaller bikes that were more loaded than this. But not on Chinese roads. And that I think is the issue, as we shall see...
As the story continues, after about 600 km on the new tank, it also started leaking. I noticed it when I stopped to camp for the night. I had again hit some extremely bumpy roads that day, some of the (unforeseen) bumps where taken at highway speeds which gave quite a jolt to the bike - more than what the suspension could properly handle. So, in addition to the slowly dripping tank I noticed the number plate holder was extremely close to the rear wheel and had in fact been hitting the rear wheel on some bumps knocking off one of the blinker lights. Well, it was cold and raining and I was just on the side of the road and i thought I would just keep riding to my next destination where i could assess the situation, order parts, etc.
So off I went. The GPS tried to send me on a road (probably a nice road) but there was no turn off to get to it, so it recalculated a new route along a long an X road that was in extremely bad shape. after 1-1/2 hours of covering about 50 km, I realized it could now take me 3 or 4 more days to reach my destination instead of 2 (it was 1100 km away). and besides after all the bumps, my fuel tank was now leaking much faster. So, I figures the only way to actually make my destination is to take the smooth expressway all the way. So I used the Prince technique of riding around the barriers on the far right truck lane - all the way, through 2 province changes - worked like a charm. On the expressways, if I didn't stop for anything, I got 250 km to a full tank. before the leak I got 300.
I arrived the next morning at my hotel, unpacked and checked out the bike.
The first clue that something serious was amis, I actually knew about already because i could see it when I stopped for gas. The trim around the fuel tank was separating. Now it is screwed on to the frame and on to the tank, so it seems as if the tank separated from the frame
Attachment 18799
I will continue now in a new post as my poor internet connection is loosing stuff...
So, on removal of all the trim, I found that the bolts for the front fulet tank mount had sheared off:
Attachment 18800
And it seemed real strange, the mounting bracket was up in the air. I could not even push it down to fit on where the broken bolts where sticking out. It was only after I removed the tank and looked underneath it that I could see the problem. Both bolts holding the top of the rear frame assembly had sheared off so, rear the frame pivoted on the lower mounting bolts. Since the fuel tank rear mount is attached to the rear frame it pulled it along ripping the front tank mounts from their bolts. the red arrow in below photo points to where the rear of the fuel tank mounts on the rear frame (and you can see how far away the rear frame assembly mounts pivoted away from the main frame.
Attachment 18801
And here is the spacer that fits between the rear frame assembly legs, the remains of the sheared off bolts can be seen protruding from each end
Attachment 18802
continues next post...
Once again Bill what shame.
The technique to entry or bye pass a toll barriers is a well sorted out way which I have used many times over the years and I am happy it has help you at a time when you most needed it.
Looking forward to your next post to find out the root coures off the leaking Tank.
This trip is turning out to be the 1 you remember the most, not because of the great mountain you have
viewed but because off all the problems you have had with the bike.
Take note people who are considering a ride such as Bills.
DO NOT CONSIDER ALL ROAD ACROSS CHINA
TO BE LIKE YOU HAVE NEAR YOU HOME LOCATION.
As Bill have just found out some are in very poor sate of repair.
My advice is to ride a bike which is capable of handing the bad stuff with easy so when you hit the good stuff it's a dream.
Well good luck Bill and keep the thread updated with your progress.
The temporary repair starts with finding something to prop up the back of the bike so I can line up the rear frame assembly with with the main frame to re-attach it.
Attachment 18803
Then go to town to get the studs extracted from the spacer. A local shop welded a piece of rod to the studs and unthreaded the them.
Attachment 18804
In this little town, all I could find are soft steel hardware store bolts without an allen head. I had to get slightly longer bolts and add nuts as spacers to I could fit a wrench on the end of them to tighten all the way into the recessed frame.
Attachment 18805
This won't take care of the problem if the original hardened steel bolts sheared. But, it should be OK to get me 65 KM into the city (with no luggage onboard) to buy better bolts.
Attachment 18806
And now it is attached again:
Attachment 18807
And now, while waiting for the new fuel tank to arrive, I am cruising on my local rental bike.
Last photo not attaching, posting now before I lose the post...
I now suspect the cause of the first leaking fuel tank was that one of the bolts holding the top of the rear frame assembly sheared. This caused the rear frame to pull back on the tank and overstress the weld (rear tank mount welded to tank) causing a leak. but with still one bolt holding the rear frame I did not notice that the other bolt was broken. Although, what Prince pointed out, the number plate being out of alignment with the rear tire, was an indicator. Then once back on the road hitting more bumps, finally the second bolt sheared, ripping the new tank apart.
I can't believe I drove the bike in that condition, with all my gear loaded on the back, for 1100 km. As far as I can tell, the only thing holding up the tail section of the bike was the exhaust pipe and muffler assembly.
Now lets see if |I can post the photo that failed on the last message:
Attachment 18810
yes, OK, one more photo. Here are the rear flashers that broke off after hiting the rear tire
Attachment 18809
now zap strapped to the luggage rack. And they are still working, even after driving like that about 500km worth in the rain!!!
and this last photo is just a ghost that won't go away. I can't delete it:
Holy shit! That proves me love for adventure style bikes. Bill, good luck and safe trip. I am really in curious mode now how the story goes on.
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L07 using Tapatalk
billeuze, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, I'm just trying to point out some things that I see from the pictures so others can learn and avoid problems while on the road. I'm puzzled as to why you don't think your bike is completely overloaded? It is, and further proof is having the sub frame detach from the bike. I'm so sorry to see you're having these troubles, it's frustrating when you're trying to keep a schedule and bike problems keep getting in the way. I must say, you're attitude seems to be pretty laid back an optimistic, perfect for dealing with the frustrations of China. :thumbsup: Good luck moving forward.
Hi ChinaV.
MCM is a great source of information with regards to riding around China you and ShuBun have been riding in China for many years and like me know to well what is the best type of bike to ride China.
You are correct Bill is,a very laid back man and I take my hat off to him for his positive attitude.
You are correct to point out in your mind you consider MAYBE the bike is a bit overloaded ?
I don't think for one minute Bill thinks you are digging him out he is too nicer guy for that.
We all wish Bill well and hope he can complete his ride.
But something tells me this is not the end that why I started this thread.
IMO he needs to unload some stuff and send it home.
IMO he need to keep on the Toll roads from now on.
I am very concured and worried about his progress from now on considering what has happen to the bike over the last week and I have ask Bill to keep me updated daily by way of WeChat.
Good luck. I hope the trip goes smoother from now on. You have paid your dues.....
This is some serious stuff! People usually get punctures and broken spokes and you rode over 1000km with your frame in pieces. Its kinda funny but was definitely dangerous. This is something you can not predict. This bike was simply not designed to carry luggage. Good luck mate, hope everything will go well from now on
Hey Bill, saw your post and definitely think your assumption is right where the damage could have come from.
As I understood the bike once fallen to the left onto the luggage box right? That could have been the starting point of the damage, as the force of the impact when it fell had to go somewhere, even you didn't see any obvious damages right after....
By the time it could become loose and moving and at the end it got broken....
Be happy that the exhaust system is reliable and kept you up straight... haha.
Anyway, if you start a trip like this damages will occur and have to be calculated as you probably did it already. When I went through Vietnam I had also issues and damages but it was always a nice challenge to fix them and get back on the road...
Wish you good luck and save ride.....
@Shuben... so the "Gummikuh" is back in operation already?
BR
Dave
Yeah, the "rubber cow" is running again. :-)
But now I see more oil patches on the road than ever in my whole life before....
After seeing the pics from Bill I come to following conclusion:
The amount of luggage and bad roads bring the shock absorber to its limit and it end blocks. By this, the forces going into the rear support frame. That creates shear forces in the connecting bolts.
In the moment when shear forces are bigger then the clamp forces of the bolt you are done. Just a matter of time.
As every technician should know, shear forces are the worst thing you can do to a bolt or screw.
... There comes the roll of torquing in the game. If u overstress a bolt the bolt material goes in the plastic deformation zone (doesn't mean it brakes immediately). At the end your achieved clamping force is lower than in the elastic zone that you would stay in by using correct torque.
... Sorry for my tech teach, but I must let my thoughts out :-)
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L07 using Tapatalk
All input is welcome with this thread.
A lot off people have missed the fact that the bikes front right hand shock is leaking and maybe lossed all its oil.
Not sure if the right hand shock is the compression or the rebound shock needless to say this has compounded the problem with the bolts IMO.
I doubt it Dave. That little tip over when I was backroading with Shuben had hardly any impact force, it wend down quite slowly and actually did not even land on a rock because the impact was cushioned by my boot which ended up stuck under the bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaveldav
On the other hand, some of the bumps I took at highway speeds put an awful lot of strain on the frame parts.
Meanwhile, I am following advice of some of you and lightening my load. today I sent back home 5 kilos worth of stuff. I also decided I will never carry more than 1 liter of water with me (I used to carry up to 3 liters) and I will only fill my 10 liter spare fuel tank up to about 3 liters. Altogether this reduces the load hanging off the back by 14 kilos.
Also today, I sent back my new fuel tank as it was defective. So, ordered another new one and now waiting another 2-1/2 days for it to arrive by air express. I'll get refunded the cost of the tank, but not the 200 RMB air express charge.
14 kg good start.
Over the 90 days ride I sent back 3 loads at diffants stages just over 40kg and now the TR-G rides and handles much better.
Form this.
Attachment 18819
To this.
Attachment 18820
After unloading and loading up the bike every night and morring taking as much as 40 mins a go I decided I needed to streamline the load.
Now that's what I call way overloaded! I probably don't even have 40 kilos total. For sure not now after I got rid of the 14. I probably won't be able to weigh it till I get home.
wow @billeuze, i've only just seen this post.
I actually remember seeing your bike for sale some time ago on this site and remember thinking that it was a good deal. It looked in much better shape than the one I had.
For my own opinion. I wouldn't say it was a complete lemon, its just that it had standard chinese manufacturing practices applied to it.
(I realise there are some chinese 'champion companies' that the chinese can be proud of....but i don't think Benelli is really one of those, and especially not the early model bj600 gs. )
A friend has the bn300 and its a much better bike than any bj600 i've seen, including the one i owned.
My version was the one with the overheating problem, that many of you guys had a lot of helpful suggestions with on this thread http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ht=overheating
In the end, i installed a manual (always on) switch which kept the fan running all the time, to prevent it from getting too hot.
I had the intention to do as Asymptomatic suggested and put in bigger fans... but i got transferred with my company and had to sell the bike.
The standard problems that i saw myself was 1- overheating... which i was informed was changed on later model bikes, but then 2...till the rest, just the addition of poor quality secondary parts... like plastics, meters, levers, mirrors...that kind of shit.
When i sold the bike i obviously informed the guy of these problems and told him that provided he was using it for mountain rides... it should be fine. He was aware of that model and bought it anyway.
That being said... he actually didn't intend it for mountain rides and used it primarily in the city...and for some reason uninstalled the 'always on' cooling fan switch...
and of course it overheated. And i've since been told developed a few more choice problems that it didn't have before.
So he doesn't seem so happy. That being said, i agree with most of what this group has said so far... it's not a great bike. It gives some exhilaration, but its not a good everyday bike... and definitely not a good choice as a tourer in my opinion, just too many things that can go wrong. Even when i owned it, i used it for highway riding to work, and mountain jaunts...but not city riding. I had a Shineray xy250gy10 for that.
There were 2 guys that bought Suzuki en150 ' s and toured around China on them. In my opinion they're probably the best China bike for touring... especially if you know very little about mechanics. Its suzuki so decent engine, and a major plus is those particular bikes are basically great quality chinese farmer bikes, which means parts are everywhere, and everyone knows how to fix them.
Also... air-cooled... less things to go wrong.