Looking for used BMW 650GS or if no BMW, last resort is Jialing 600 Enduro

OK, I googled. Here's a news item just out in the past couple of hours about the Consumer Reports motorcycle reliability research.

cheers
euphonius

Consumer Reports' first motorcycle reliability report finds Japanese brands ahead

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Quote:

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By Brandon Turkus

Posted Feb 22nd 2014 11:05AM


Consumer Reports has released its first ever study of motorcycle reliability, and students of its ratings on cars might notice a suspicious similarity - Japanese brands require fewer repairs than the leading American or German brands.


The study analyzed the reliability of 4,680 bikes owned by CR subscribers and found that Yamaha had the best ratings, with just one in ten bikes built between 2009 and 2012 requiring a repair over a four-year period. The makers of the R1 and R6 sport bikes were closely followed by Kawasaki and Honda, while one out of every four of the rumbling bikes from Harley-Davidson experienced an issue. BMW had the worst rating of the brands represented, with one in three bikes having problems.


According to CR, neither Suzuki nor Triumph owners provided enough information for a reliable rating. Based on the responses received, though, Suzuki would have finished with the other Japanese brands and Triumph, being English, would have been one of the less reliable makes.


As for which parts of the bike caused the biggest headaches, CR cites things like lights, instrumentation and switches as causing 21 percent of repairs. Worryingly, brakes were the issue in a fifth of cases, while the electrical and fuel systems were problematic 16 and 15 percent of the time, respectively.


Overall, CR claims 20 percent of the 4,680 bikes surveyed had problems, but 75 percent of the issues cost less than $200 to repair. Touring bikes were the biggest troublemakers, followed by dual-sports, sport tourers, and cruisers. Like Suzuki and Triumph, there wasn't enough data from the performance crowd, although Consumer Reports estimates that bikes like the Honda CBR line and Kawasaki Ninja ZX6-R would be among the most reliable bikes, alongside the cruiser class.


Hop over to the Consumer Reports website for the full breakdown, as well as a useful list of things motorcyclists can do to keep their bikes running properly.

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the Bavarian Bikes cannot be that bad. here some numbers from 2012: the 50 most sold bikes in Germany 2012


Modell Verkäufe
1 BMW R 1200 GS 5603
2 Kawasaki ER-6n/f 2190
3 BMW S 1000 RR 1533
4 BMW F 800 R 1531
5 BMW R 1200 R 1514
6 BMW F 800 GS 1504
7 Yamaha XJ6/Diversion 1332
8 Honda NC 700 X 1283
9 Honda NC 700 S 1247
10 Harley-Davidson XL 1200X 1095
11 BMW F 650 GS 1053
KTM 690 Duke 1053
13 Suzuki V-Strom 650 1037
14 Suzuki GSR 750 1020
15 Yamaha FZ8 985
16 Suzuki GSF 1250 Bandit 966
17 Suzuki SFV 650 Gladius 965
18 Kawasaki Z 1000 873
19 BMW G 650 GS 862
20 Triumph Tiger 800 845
21 Honda Crosstourer 837
22 KTM 690 SMC 793
23 KTM 990 Supermoto 791
24 Triumph Speed Triple 1050 774
25 Ducati Multistrada 1200 756
26 Harley-Davidson Dyna Fat Bob 736
27 Honda CBF 600 S 723
28 Triumph Tiger Explorer 716
29 Kawasaki Z 750 R 714
30 Ducati 1199 Panigale 705
31 BMW K 1300 S 694
32 BMW K 1600 GT 681
33 Honda CB 1000 R 674
34 Kawasaki Z 750 673
35 Kawasaki Z 1000 SX 654
36 Triumph Street Triple 675 650
37 BMW R 1200 RT 633
38 Harley-Davidson Dyna Street Bob 601
39 Honda CB 600 F Hornet 598
40 Ducati Monster 1100 595
41 KTM 350 EXC-F 589
42 Honda CBF 1000 F 578
43 Harley-Davidson XL 883 Iron 547
44 Honda CBR 600 F 526
45 Honda CBR 250 R 513
46 Harley-Davidson Night Rod 499
47 BMW K 1300 R 498
48 Ducati Diavel 492
49 Ducati Streetfighter 848 489
50 Kawasaki Versys 1000 486
…
63 Aprilia SL 750 Shiver 382


Vorhang auf für die 50 bestverkauften Motorrad-Typen hierzulande. Fett unterlegt: die Bestseller ihrer jeweiligen Marke. Für Aprilia schafft es die SL 750 Shiver auf Platz 63




http://www.motorradonline.de/motorra...431228?seite=2

............. but maybe we Germans are all masochists

Sabine, sales numbers are not the same as consumer satisfaction reports. However I would think that most problems are small silly electrical problems with bikes and so on. I think the 1200 GS causes most of the complaints for BMW it's hugely popular, but really I think it's not a good bike. I also think an S1000RR would likely not cause many problems and is an excellent bike.

Irregardless of whether BMW is reliable or not, it doesn't sound like they are easy to come by in China, or at least not at a price the average person could afford. So, plan B was suggested; the Jialing JH600. Based on the original poster's frustration in finding a BMW, and several people 'yelling' out the Jialing, is this the best choice based on what he wants in a bike?

It's entirely possible that what I had to say about the BMW bike was somehow misinterpreted as waving a flag for a particular brand. I thought that I pointed out the flaws, and penny pinching that I found to be the weak points of the bike. Maybe you guys missed that part.

Personally as far as CR, journalistic reviews, and average consumer feedbacks are concerned, I read & listen but take that stuff with a grain of salt. Who are these people anyway and how valid are there opinions? When searching the classifieds for a used vehicle more often then not a seller holds out a banner "pristine condition", "excellent condition" "just needs an AC recharge", or "Replace the battery", etc. You get there and match what was said against what your seeing with your own eyes and (at least me) have to wonder what are these people smoking. I find that the average consumer don't know 大條 from shinola (but that's just me). To make matters worst the average consumer is ill equipped to when it comes to problem solving and maintenance. Of course a popular response is always "That's what I'm paying for" or something to that effect. Or failure to recognize the penny pinching of the manufacturing process and that's always argued with some other type of response (valid or not). This is not a dissertation, I'm just hoping that you get my point. Never the less, that's how people buy stuff.

BMW's newest GS slogan is "Unstoppable" and I'm here to say that it is not unstoppable, the bike has it's limits, but in reality it really doesn't matter what they say because the fact of the matter is 90% of the people that buy the bike are never going off road. The same thing goes for 4 wheel drive SUV's, Pickup Trucks, etc, etc.

I've never had an electrical issue with my bike or otherwise but then again I stripped my practically brand new GSA down to the bone when and checked out everything when I first brought it home because I have to be the master of my vehicle because no one is going to take better care of my vehicle then I will.

The bike is not perfect, but name a bike that is. If KTM was so "Race Ready" then why are there a ton of aftermarket do dads out there? Like some of you, I am very familiar and have ridden the Jialing bike and I'm also aware of it's flaws and short comings. Money aside Jialing is in no way a better or more reliable bike then any BMW bike out there.

Having said that, the GS has faults right out of the box that most people don't know, but can be corrected if one is so inclined:
1. Dealers failure to correctly PDI the bike
2. The valves are of spec on the vast majority of new bikes
3. The rims although proprietary in design are too soft for potholes and off roading
4. The lower triple clamp attached to the telelever (adequate) is not nearly strong enough to keep the forks from twisting at high speed and off road situations.

Not intended to insult anybody but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Agree with most comments on here, so far.

1) JH600 versus GS: Bottom line for me - the BMW, in China, is 4 times the price of the JH (120K for the F700, versus 30K for the JH). Sure, in a different country, the price difference would be much less, and the GS should become a more attractive option. But, in China, I just don't get the appeal being worth 4 times the price.

2) Parts/service availability/price. The GS is fine if you don't stray too far from a dealer. Murphy's Law mandates that the mechanical/electrical fault will happen at least 1,000 kms from Beijing/Shanghai, and nobody will have a clue what to do except ship the bike back to Beijing/Shanghai, where you will wait for parts to be sent from Germany (the dealers don't even stock bikes, so don't expect a warehouse of parts). In the USA, Harley shops are as common as Denny's restaurants, and I'd suspect that BMW shops are common in Germany ... but we're in China, land of the joyous Jialing.

3) Neither are intended for off-road use. Instead, they are road bikes that can be bounced around rough patches, or hop the curb at a Starbucks. Again, however, nobody oohs & aaahs my JH at the local coffee joint. I feel so neglected. Sigh.

My cautionary comments in prior posts were simple - don't assume that a BMW is problem-free. That myth has been a wildly successful marketing strategy from the German titan (imagine what would have happened if KTM had said "yes" to Ewan/Charlie). And understand that being stranded far, far, far from service in a land with significant language barriers can be nightmarish. You know, the CR analysis can be read another way ... 2 out of 3 BMWs do not experience any problems within the first 4 years of ownership. That is notable, especially by Chinese standards. But sorry folks, the Japanese win on reliability, although their bikes are often criticized for lacking "character".

Unfortunately, in China, motorcycle selection is very limited and the few imported bikes are excessively expensive. The choice between a GS and a JH seems, to me, a no-brainer. Personally, I want a Duc MTS, but will wait until I'm taking an extended vacation in Italy. As the saying goes ... when in Rome (Beijing, Berlin, Boston ... wherever).

PS: My Canadian GS problems (650 Dakar) were in the Yukon (far away from anything), riding in a group of BMW sponsored bikes. Mine was not the only bike having problems. But that was what we were there for - to see what happens.

My favorite motorcycling journalist ws killed on a GS 1200. The GS has head shake issues, that's why BMW have fitted a steering damper to all new bikes last year. The BMW is too heavy for any real off road, BMW exaggerate the off road abilities of the bike becuase it's good for sales, that's why they used 600 singles for Paris-Dakar now 450cc. Also why they use 450 singles as the largest size for motocross racing. Surely anyone with experience can see the 1200 GS with such a steep fork angle and heavy boxer twin is not going to be very off-road capable or even any better than a CB500X. You will need parts and they will be an absolute bitch to get hold of in China. The 1200GS popular because it's a lifestyle statement, made famous by two actors. Reviews consistently class the competing KTM as a better bike on and off road. The Jialing is more practical and cheaper, obviously the better option for riding in China, at a quarter of the price it's a no brainer.

I did not want to suggest that anyone was necessarily 'wrong' because I have read plenty of 'issues' with BMW since the 90's with their police bikes injuring officers while on duty, through the years (an example, I remember in ADV Rider someone's front end fell off while riding through Alaska or somewhere) but it seems that BMW in China, like Harley in the US and probably China, are more image bikes, hence the inflated prices, especially in China. Reliability is a concern, too, especially in a 'foreign' country (for BMW) like China. I can imagine the majority of the BMWs being sold to nouveu riche poseurs there, just as I am sure the 2 dimensional Harleys are (2 dimensional meaning made only for nicely paved roads--preferably similar to US interstate highways).

CFMoto is working out the issues with its 650 lineup judging by a few posts from a few different owners, and the fact that they only offer a touring bike, or a naked sports bike, neither of which resemble the BMW (which the Jialing tries to emulate). So, yes, it sounds like the Jialing will be the best choice hands down (at least in China) especially considering they offered the bike 4 or 5 years ago (maybe longer) and have worked out the 'issues' and that is even if price was not part of the equation!

Don't get me wrong, I like BMWs, and HDs, and pretty much every other bike, within reason. But remembering my younger years (a llllooonnnggg time ago) when I dated hot girls & rode BMWs/HDs, I learned a lot about "high maintenance"

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However, some of the finer things in life are still too expensive, regardless of how full my wallet is.

BTW, I have both my JH600 and a BMW 650GS for sale, as I will be spending less & less time in China, in the near future. The JH is in very good shape, whereas the GS has fallen over a few times (I bought it from a Chinese friend who decided after several tip-overs that it was too tall for him). Both are A-plated, and each are only Euro-2, so cannot be taken to another province (need a Euro-3 bike to register in another province). Jing'rs can PM me for details.

Oh, and I have about 8 other bikes for sale, too - all Jing plated.

Yay Canada!!!!!! Gold in both men's & women's hockey. No need to hang my head in shame for the next four years.

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