永源 枭风1号 Jonway

It’s not clear where the engine is out of, Jiajue offers engines made by others, they uses NC250 Zongshen engines or either Shineray or Yingang DOHC 250 engines, the twin is new since it is 399cc and the output is decent for that size engine. The images of the engine in the Motrac and the images of the engine in the N10 are of different engines, the specs are not exactly the same but so close, one could assume they are the same engines, however the marketing images of the two twins are obviously of different engines.
A 399cc twin is a significant offering and it being slipped onto a website with little promotion or details is just terrible marketing.
Jiajue dropped its blatant copy of the CB250R Honda, they still are offering a blatant copy of the KTM Duke 390 though and selling blatant copies is a foolish business practice.
There is what can be called a Mini Pile On, the Honda Grom copies and variation numbers are growing so fast, every manufacturer is offering one or more versions. Is there really that much demand for Minis? It to me seems embarrassing, could call it a major industry conspiracy to attain the highest level of embarrassment globally as far and wide as possible? Look everyone is doing it so should you…but they are so dinky, nobody is getting embarrassed ridding them? Not a trend…the Minis are a fad, a cyclical recurring fad.

I still have somewhere neat publication from the 80's called... something like "Who is who in Japanese machinery industry". I'm wondering how many volumes would be enough to acquaint us who is who in Chinese motorcycle industry?

I would understand that we are discussing who made some generic, mainstream engine, some CG, CB, GS clones, but here we have, as it appears to me, something that make a step forward, displacement/power/design-wise, and there is no additional info or announcements about that engine.

Strange situation.

BTW, I written somewhere that this new 400 cc engine is marked as JS-400, and... according to "Jianshe's" official site, it isn't their.

About minis: I thought that belt driven scooters were fad, but look what they did. :icon10:

Here are the engines side by side.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ue/engines.png

They are different and small compared to all the sleeved down 400cc offered. They look to be bored out engines, the 320cc on the right we know is the left engine is new, but is pretty small.

I see different layout of those two engines, but I don't have idea which engine was (if it is at all) used as prototype. In some manner, looks like "Yami" XS 400 layout, but...

I was wondering, why nobody among dozens of Chinese bike manufacturers didn't stuck in their bike some knockoff of "Briggs & Stratton" V2 "Vanguard" or "Honda's" GX 630/660/690 engine and make us all happy. Imagine: we'll be having bunch of "Guzzi-ish" bikes. :lol8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorge

I was wondering, why nobody among dozens of Chinese bike manufacturers didn't stuck in their bike some knockoff of "Briggs & Stratton" V2 "Vanguard" or "Honda's" GX 630/660/690 engine and make us all happy. Imagine: we'll be having bunch of "Guzzi-ish" bikes. :lol8:

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They are still in on the GX200 :naughty:


http://www.funbikes.co.uk/upload/ima...03d89970a6.jpg
http://www.funbikes.co.uk/Baja_Big_W...284909%29.aspx

Those single cylinders up to GX 390 (or GX 420) are not... I mean, they aren't... No.

Those I have in mind:

B&S Vanguard

http://www.brandnewengines.com/image...l/100_0627.JPG

Honda GX 690

http://www.brandnewengines.com/image...l/100_0514.JPG

:naughty:

Jokes aside. When we already discuss about engines, I must to say that it is not clear to me that nobody in China didn't, at least, try to fit some 400-500 cc ATV engine on some show-bike, even together with the CVT and make something like "Mana" or NC 700 X. Well, few year ago, Taiwanese "Dinli" showed one matte black cruiser with 800 cc thumper and CVT, but that is all (that I know of). OK, those are relatively expensive piece of machinery, but nobody wanted, at least, to experiment.

here is the MT-400 from the other side.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...jue/MT-400.png

I suspect it is still in development,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorge

Those single cylinders up to GX 390 (or GX 420) are not... I mean, they aren't... No.

Those I have in mind:

:naughty:

Jokes aside. When we already discuss about engines, I must to say that it is not clear to me that nobody in China didn't, at least, try to fit some 400-500 cc ATV engine on some show-bike, even together with the CVT and make something like "Mana" or NC 700 X. Well, few year ago, Taiwanese "Dinli" showed one matte black cruiser with 800 cc thumper and CVT, but that is all (that I know of). OK, those are relatively expensive piece of machinery, but nobody wanted, at least, to experiment.

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The engines you are pointing out are likely under patent, it’s not the same to copy a design as the way something looks, then to copy something mechanical while it is under a patent. Honda also has some patents on their automatic the DCT transmissions as on the NC700, I suspect that China is short on engineering something that is or would be considered acceptable to many. Point out one thing that has not been done before, they modify in some cases and eventually will likely innovate but that is going to be off in the future.

Consider the three wheeled reverse trikes, people would think hey that should be great, those that have reviewed them have called them death traps with front ends that are possessed, they are not even align-able.

This engine and its lack of PR could be due to that it is so bad and did not work out that they barely market it? They have a strange characteristic in Chinese society, cannot talk back to management only contributions flow down, its like the line of command in the military, in many of the Chinese businesses. Hide obvious mistakes as if nobody will ever see them, as if not mentioning it means it did not happen. It explains many things like how a website is published with so many inaccuracies, with bad grammar. A CEO can mandate a deadline without conferring with a subordinate engineer, sometimes it is actually required to revisit the drawing board, but some will not speak out, the results are not often appreciated.

Part of why not....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorge

Those I have in mind:

Honda GX 690


:naughty:

Jokes aside. When we already discuss about engines, I must to say that it is not clear to me that nobody in China didn't, at least, try to fit some 400-500 cc ATV engine on some show-bike, even together with the CVT and make something like "Mana" or NC 700 X. Well, few year ago, Taiwanese "Dinli" showed one matte black cruiser with 800 cc thumper and CVT, but that is all (that I know of). OK, those are relatively expensive piece of machinery, but nobody wanted, at least, to experiment.

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I think it's the weight and the "bulkiness" that pose the biggest problem. Much like the "unicorn" of the touring bikes - the diesel engine!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

The engines you are pointing out are likely under patent, it’s not the same to copy a design as the way something looks, then to copy something mechanical while it is under a patent.

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It looks that these guys from Fuzhou don't know that - http://www.launtop.com/Prod/View/13

All the rest you wrote - nothing to add or disagree.