Motorbikes / Expressways

...continuation. :scooter:

Nobody has posted anything in-between my last post and this one so I can get right down to it:

As soon as the guy (he looked like he was in-charge) saw me ride up to his smokey office building/decorated cardboard box he asked me what I wanted to do; I told him that I wanted him to look at the documents I'd brought with me and see what he thought.
"What documents?" He spluttered. "Some that state motorcycles are allowed on Chinese expressways" I replied. "No, no, no. That's not right" he immediately began say but I simply asked him to have a look; after which he invited me inside to sit down and inhale a days worth of his 2nd hand cigarette smoke.

Another long story short:
He - along with one of his colleagues - seemed to remain indirectly supportive of my claim while blatantly sticking to their old Chinese guns :gun_bandana:
"No motorbikes on Chinese expressways".

I showed him a number of questions from the national driving exam including the one below:
4.1.2.5 When running on an expressway that has two lanes in the same direction, a motorcycle should run in the left lane.
Answer: Wrong

...to which he said "You see this? It means that motorbikes can't run on two lane expressways".
He had jumped to the conclusion that they can run on four lane expressways but not two lane ones, such as the majority in Shandong.
I told him that his assumption was incorrect and the answer to the question above was equal to stating that motorcycles should run in the right-hand lane while on two lane freeways...

When this attempt of his failed to make me give up he jumped to several other conclusions in a semi desperate attempt to deter me. They failed.

In the end he just said he 'could not' let me on even though he 'wanted; to.
The whole time, his colleague hinted to me that I could just squeeze by the gate and nobody would chase me. They're all too lazy, he said.
On my way out, the boss man had to get the last word in and pulled this one on me:
"How much did your helmet cost?"
"It cost about 200rmb" - A tanked racing, full faced helmet.
"That's not going to protect you! You need a 1000+rmb helmet to get on here!"
:eek2:
"Since when did you become a motorcycle helmet expert?" At least I do my chinstrap up and actually wear it instead of riding around with a 40rmb helmet strapped to the bike.
...and so, with that final put-down, he had won.

Well, I will keep following this thread, and I admire your determination.

However, I should agree with the 'boss man' on the helmet: How the hell do you trust your life to a 200 RMB helmet?
Any reasonable thinking can not leave you to any other conclusion, then that 200RMB is not even enough for the material of it.
How can there be any R&D in it?

Happy riding ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 998S

Well, I will keep following this thread, and I admire your determination.

However, I should agree with the 'boss man' on the helmet: How the hell do you trust your life to a 200 RMB helmet?
Any reasonable thinking can not leave you to any other conclusion, then that 200RMB is not even enough for the material of it.
How can there be any R&D in it?

Happy riding ...

---

:sad: I always felt safe inside this helmet. Ignorance is bliss.
I'm going to begin looking for helmets between 2000-5000rmb right now.
Would that amount of money get me a good one? I'm looking at some Camberg, Bell and Shark helmets in that price range. Any suggestions?

Whouah how can I miss this thread ?

If I knew, we could have discussed about this when we met : we took the expressways twice during our round-China trip : once in Sichuan between Emeishan and Chengdu (the fools had opened the gate on the far right without anyone guarding it, and I was trying to get on this day, just to check how it was : lucky !), and the second time in Qinghai, as they forgot to put a gate when a national road became an expressway.
Both times we were "yelled at" when coming out of the expressway, but who cares... They didn't even want to open the gate for us to get off the expressway, but you just have to wait until a car comes...

The 1st one near Chengdu, we rode on it for 80km, with an average speed of 100 km/h. The second time in Qinghai, for 30km with an average speed of 110.

And with this little experience, my opinion is that :
- if by taking the expressway you're trying to avoid a very bad portion of road (mud, stones, dirt, etc.), then it's worth it to try.
- if not, you'd much better stay on the national and provincial roads : expressway are terribly annoying, it's flat, straight, you cannot see the landscape, it's just mafan...

The fun is on the small roads, even though yes it's dangerous with all the cars, ebikes, dogs, sheeps, etc. . But your best pictures will be taken from the side of the roads, especially in western provinces of China : Yunnan, Sichuan, Qinghai, Gansu, etc. .

My 2 cents...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by soberpete

Would that amount of money get me a good one? I'm looking at some Camberg, Bell and Shark helmets in that price range. Any suggestions?

---

This is what I mean, how the hell can you survive that with a 200 rmb helmet :icon10:
Attachment 7533

All helmets in the EU and US must comply with tests and regulations, and are certified accordingly.
Google a bit, and you will find plenty of info on it.
Then take care your imported helmet is genuine, and has passed those tests.
Guess that is all about you can do on safety, the rest is about fitting and being comfortable.

Eric

Thanks for the advice... and the pic; :lol8: it is truly motivating.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTMxNTAzMDQ4.html

Hey Fred,
I'm thinking of using a technique from the above video in order to get onto or off of the expressway.
Watch the part where one bike goes over the ramp and one goes under:
They move their body over the left side of the bike and duck down to the height of the handlebar.
Skip to the 00:48 part unless you want to see the whole thing.
Mirror removal would be necessary of course :riding:, or some kind of flexible mirrors .

From the Taipei Times of this morning:

Big bikers vow to protest if freeway ban not fixed

More than 1,000 owners of large motorcycles vowed to hit the streets on Wednesday to protest against regulations barring them from riding on freeways.

The legislature passed an amendment to Article 92 of the Act Governing the Punishment of Violation of Road Traffic Regulations (道路交通管理處罰條例) earlier this year to conditionally allow drivers of large motorcycles — those with engines of 550cc and above — access to national freeways.
However, they can only ride on certain freeway sections and during specific periods set by the Ministry of Transportation and Communications.
The amendment took effect on July 1.
Despite the amendment’s provisions, large-size bike owners still cannot ride on freeways because local governments have refused to open freeway sections for them. An opinion poll by the ministry also showed that a majority of the public do not support the enforcement of the bill.

Former Large Motorcycles Management Association chairperson Chen Li-yun (陳豊運) said the ministry’s argument showed its contempt for the legislature and its intention to
pass the buck to the local governments.
It was also discriminatory to owners of large motorbikes, Chen said.
“We have the same legal status as small passenger-car drivers and should have the same rights and responsibilities,” Chen said. “We just want the ministry to tell us where and when we can ride our motorcycles so as to run a trial of the new policy. How can it evaluate the viability of the policy if we are barred from going on freeways by local governments? We want dignity, not discrimination.”

Chen said more than 1,000 large bike riders would take to the streets on Wednesday and petition the legislature and the ministry.
In addition to properly designating freeway sections where large motorcycles are allowed to drive, Chen said the bikers also wanted to be exempt from having to install license plates on the front of their bikes.
If the ministry failed to take action by the end of the year, Chen said they would take that to mean that all national freeways are open to large motorcycles. They would start riding on the freeways on Jan. 1 next year, he said.

In response, the ministry said the amendment authorized it to evaluate and designate which sections can be opened to large-size motorcycles. However, local governments, bus operators as well as the public have all expressed opposition to the policy’s enforcement.
Nonetheless, the ministry said that it would continue evaluating the possibility of enforcing the policy.

One "province" down, 34 to go. The 550cc cutoff is a nice line in the sand. I LOVE the idea of a group action and would happily join a "demonstration ride" in the mainland -- if and only if we could guarantee 1000 or more riders! That's a big "if".

cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

"province"

---

Bwa ha ha :lol8:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

I LOVE the idea of a group action and would happily join

---

I know just the location in Beijing, it's a square that begins with "T". Worked perfectly for the last group of people that had a gathering there.

Being that the Rep. of Taiwan is at least a decade ahead of China in motor vehicle policy, that should put us all on the highways here sometime around .... 2025 or so.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChinaV

Bwa ha ha :lol8:

---

No worry, last time he said something like this, Matsu let him break his leg ... Wonder what she has in mind this time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChinaV

Being that the Rep. of Taiwan is at least a decade ahead of China in motor vehicle policy, that should put us all on the highways here sometime around .... 2025 or so.

---

Not only in motor vehicle policy ...

Here is my simple yet direct answer that I received verbally from the Head of the Traffic dept. of Shanghai (I was invited to a diner in which he was the guest of honor) (no I am not going to post his contact details). He stated that basically China like many countries have both National and provincial level laws. Much like the US and the Federal and State law. The National Law must be adhered to in China but a Provincial law my add to it or vary from it as long as it does not contradict the law. Now you might think that the Shanghai provincial law does in fact contradict the National law by banning bike from the express ways, but to the Chinese authorities, its simply an addition to what ever else is banned from Expressways. Because the National law allows bike on the expressway, I have been legally allowed (and often even have to pay at the tolls) on expressways on both 2 wheel bike and 3 wheel bike. That being said that does not mean that I have not encountered the ignorant toll booth attendant or policemen who bars my entry onto an expressway.... but TIC

In short:

National Law "yes, bikes can be driven, as long as they are capable of at least 70kmh, the operator is wearinf a helmet and there is no passenger.

Shanghai Provincial Law "No bikes. period" (which really should not be all that surprising)

Besides, every single one of us has said to someone "ITS ABOUT THE JOURNEY AND NOT THE DESTINATION" Expressways are boring as hell.... I rather be in the countryside the a large flat tarmac any day. In other parts of the world people search far and wide for country roads to ride instead of the highways and byways....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 998S

Not only in motor vehicle policy ...

---

Actually, in all pie-in-the-sky seriousness, is it possible that a protest like this could have a positive impact on the mainland by giving visible voice to a view that also is common here?

Anyway, it's not illegal to dream!

cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shanghaifingers

...Besides, every single one of us has said to someone "ITS ABOUT THE JOURNEY AND NOT THE DESTINATION" Expressways are boring as hell.... I rather be in the countryside the a large flat tarmac any day. In other parts of the world people search far and wide for country roads to ride instead of the highways and byways....

---

The problem is that, in Shanghai anyways, the "journey" begins at the other end of the "expressway". Yes, boring as hell, but they they get you far more efficiently to "the good riding".

Were you able to talk up the Traffic Department chief about the diversification of motorcyclists in a diversified society, that some of us ride for recreation and sport and pleasure rather than merely as a cheap alternative to a car?

cheers!

550cc or above?

Qiangjiang 750 top speed 85 k/mh. CB400 top speed 185 km/h. Clearly engine displacement is not a good system to use IMHO, especially on the mainland.

Not sure what you all are talking about - riding on the expressways in China is easy.
Just buy an invisibility cloak on Taobao. I use mine to slip onto the expressways unseen, which serves as a fast way to get to the nice X-Roads & S-Roads in Zhejiang.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/invisibility-cloak-re1.jpg

As the article states: Admit it. You'd love to own an invisibility cloak. Utter an embarrassing faux pas at a party? Just throw on your magical garment and vanish from the snooty gaze of your fellow partygoers. Want to hear what your boss is really saying about you? Stroll right into his or her office and get the goods.....or to go through China's expressway toll booths unseen.

Article: Invisibility Cloaks Are A Reality http://www.howstuffworks.com/invisibility-cloak.htm

* By the way, it's always a good idea to take your cloak off after you pass thru the booth. Can be dangerous riding invisible in China - trust me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

Were you able to talk up the Traffic Department chief about the diversification of motorcyclists in a diversified society, that some of us ride for recreation and sport and pleasure rather than merely as a cheap alternative to a car?

cheers!

---

Actually we talked at length about the differnces. Especially when asked, what will happen if/when plates run out here in Shanghai. We talked about issueing new plates that had limitation on them that would not inhibit the pleasure rider as well as other novel ideas and not so novel (other memebe at the diner had been drinking (a lot)....
His reply was that it was possible to see new plates issued and thus readily available, that were not transferable to cars...in the future (the biggest problem facing the plating situation now)... but he stated they would likely not get any cheaper, given the nature of the thing.... meaning IMHO "Shanghai makes good money on you bikers, why would we give that up". However he said that it was unlikely that there would be a two plate, one city policy anytime soon.... Even if the plates ran out, it would probably be a mess before any action was or if any were taken. Shanghai is part of the multi-city/province ban on motorbikes, the plating situation that now exists is part of a bigger plan to slowly choke the life out of motorcycles in the city proper.

Even though motorcycle market, culture and economic impact is changing and very quickly since the last 4-5 years, the goverment I am sure will be slow to react simiply because Cities like Shanghai and Guang Zhou are to big to be conserned with a few (we are few in number) bikers wanting to play with their toys.....

Seems like we are along for the ride with little to no ablitly to create change, we will have to just see what happens in the end and hope for the best.... In my opinion go and buy as many legal plates as you can now and ensure at least 11 years of riding before you wake up one morning and find plates are all gone:thumbsup::naughty:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shanghaifingers

Actually we talked at length about the differnces. Especially when asked, what will happen if/when plates run out here in Shanghai. We talked about issueing new plates that had limitation on them that would not inhibit the pleasure rider as well as other novel ideas and not so novel (other memebe at the diner had been drinking (a lot)....
His reply was that it was possible to see new plates issued and thus readily available, that were not transferable to cars...in the future (the biggest problem facing the plating situation now)... but he stated they would likely not get any cheaper, given the nature of the thing.... meaning IMHO "Shanghai makes good money on you bikers, why would we give that up". However he said that it was unlikely that there would be a two plate, one city policy anytime soon.... Even if the plates ran out, it would probably be a mess before any action was or if any were taken. Shanghai is part of the multi-city/province ban on motorbikes, the plating situation that now exists is part of a bigger plan to slowly choke the life out of motorcycles in the city proper.

Even though motorcycle market, culture and economic impact is changing and very quickly since the last 4-5 years, the goverment I am sure will be slow to react simiply because Cities like Shanghai and Guang Zhou are to big to be conserned with a few (we are few in number) bikers wanting to play with their toys.....

Seems like we are along for the ride with little to no ablitly to create change, we will have to just see what happens in the end and hope for the best.... In my opinion go and buy as many legal plates as you can now and ensure at least 11 years of riding before you wake up one morning and find plates are all gone:thumbsup::naughty:

---

Dear Fingers,

Many thanks for these details, depressing as they are. I have one new question, though. Without issuing new plates, how is it that the city makes "good money" from us motorcyclists? When you purchase a plate today the ONLY source is the open market, not the government, so the funds flow between private parties. There's only a small registration fee and tax that the state collects. If the state started issuing new plates again, THEN they'd have genuine cash flow. And they could make annual re-registration mandatory like in all other countries -- i.e. a tax on the right to pilot a vehicle on public roads. What a concept!

Then again, as the proud owner of a plate worth more than its weight in gold and appreciating, I'm not interested in any dramatic changes that would affect my "investment".

cheers!

Euphonius,

Actually those are my words not his, I thought that was what he was implying.... He very well was implying something altogether different. Your right though used platees are sold in the open market and the New ones come from the goverment. Which leads me to MY new question, why don't they wan to issue new plates... Since the allowance of large displacment bikes, bike sales have increased and the number of people able to afford the sky high price of plates these days also increased as the wealthly members of Shanghai flock to buy these new (to them) toys....

The smoothest road surfaces are typically found on expressways...so it is a dream not to have to hunt for holes every 10 meters... anyway, the idea of leaving an expressway or entering...is to make sure you do not drive over the 'concrete cutout' where under lies the vehicle detector, which the toll booth worker has to account payment for each crossing. I think the worker is most worried about this..and how much to charge a motorcycle which they dont do as it is not posted. Speaking of concrete...Chinese workers are 'concrete thinkers'...if it doesnt happen everyday..then it is not possible. You cant put a square peg in a round hole.....or can you? of course if the hole is big enough..why not?:lol8:

I want to travel long distance to other cities..how to do? without expressways?

And a further update from "Democratic China" [via Focus Taiwan News Channel].
The general feeling is, that the government will budge soon, and bikers will finally (after almost 15 years of getting legal) be allowed on the Taiwanese Freeways (=Highways).


Safety concerns remain about big bikes on freeways: ministry

Taipei, Aug. 15 (CNA)
There are still safety concerns about allowing heavy-duty bikes onto freeways, the government said Wednesday, in response to a protest by motorcyclists about a delay in the announcement of certain regulations.

Hundreds of bikers gathered in front of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications earlier in the day, calling for the ministry to cease delaying its announcement on which freeway sections bikers can use and during which time slots.

The Legislature decided last November to allow motorcycles with engines of over 550cc onto freeways, but said riders have to follow regulations set by the transportation ministry about road sections and time slots.

Although the measure took effect July 1, it was withdrawn on July 10 because the transportation ministry had not been able to reach a consensus on road sections and time slots with local governments, which expressed qualms about the safety of big bikes on freeways.

The delay was due to opposition from governments in Taichung, Tainan, Kaohsiung, Nantou and Pingtung, the ministry said, adding that it will continue to discuss the issue with the local governments.

A total of 28,000 motorcycles over 550cc are registered in Taiwan, according to data from the transportation ministry.

By Wang Shu-fen and Scully Hsiao

Tried to find pictures of this "mass event", but failed. Would like to see hundreds or thousands of bikes gathered outside a government building!

cheers!

anyone up for some high speed runs.... just kidding but you never know.....

Toll waiving likely to bog down highway traffic
Shanghai Daily Newspaper 2012-9-10

Motorists will encounter serious gridlocks on highways during the upcoming National Day holiday because of a new national policy to suspend toll collection during major public holidays.

The eight-day holiday will start on September 30 and will see a big exodus as families take advantage of the long holiday to travel.

The traffic department said the waiving of road tolls can cut the cost of a self-drive trip by half and may result in a spike in highway traffic during the holiday. Many drivers who previously chose toll-free roads will be tempted to travel on expressways.

Traffic authorities said they are still working on a contingency plan to cope with anticipated jams on highways as a result of the new national policy.

Is that an invitation? You saying all those toll booths won't be manned?

I was coming down on the bus from Beijing to Shandong last month and there was a 5km/2hr tailback on the way into a toll-booth at 8pm. So now we get to see the regular stretches that aren't toll-booths go tits-up too?

Most of the expressways around my area only have two lanes, yet around London we have 4-5 (M25 London orbital) lanes. Whoever decided that 2-3 lanes would be enough on the expressway network in a country of 1.5 billion won't be sleeping comfortably in their bed over the holiday period. Next the car drivers will be clamoring for trucks to be banned from the expressway no doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by felix

Is that an invitation? You saying all those toll booths won't be manned?

---

It's worth a gander. No harm in riding up to the booths for a quick look. It's not like we can't slip past the traffic that would be queuing up.

Toll-free traffic to be no picnic over holidays


Source: Xinhua | 2012-9-17 | NEWSPAPER EDITION SHANGHAI DAILY
________________________________


CHINA'S new policy that exempts passenger cars from road tolls during holidays is expected to spur unprecedented road traffic during the country's upcoming Golden Week holiday.


The public, including the country's 236 million licensed drivers, will be exempt from about 10 billion yuan (US$1.58 billion) in highway tolls during China's longest-ever eight-day Golden Week holiday, running from September 30 to October 7.


The policy will greatly benefit people planning to drive themselves to their holiday destinations, but it will also generate massive traffic pressure, said Chen Xiongzhang, a communications researcher with Guangxi Normal University.


In early August, the State Council, China's Cabinet, approved a plan to lift road tolls for passenger cars taking highways during major Chinese holidays.


Passenger cars with seven seats or less and motorcycles will get a free pass on toll roads, bridges and tunnels during the Spring Festival, Qingming Festival, Labor Day and National Day, said the notice issued by the State Council on August 2.


People have long complained that toll gates cause highway traffic jams during national holidays. Tolls take up 30-40 percent of expenses incurred by those driving themselves to destinations throughout China.


An online survey conducted by Sina and Tencent, two major Chinese web portals, revealed that nearly 80 percent of respondents have planned to drive to their holiday destinations.


Some Internet users have posted a "money-saving travel map," showing exactly how much toll money will be saved when the policy is in effect.


Meanwhile, the policy has also encouraged more people to rent cars for their holiday journeys, according to some major car rental companies.


In previous years, the holiday travel rush would peak in the first two and last two days of the Golden Week, but the new policy is expected to see the rush extend throughout the entire holiday.


Nearly all trunk roads to provincial and regional capitals and popular tourist destinations will be congested, Chen predicted.


China has not set up a complete transportation information collection system encompassing the highway, railway, aviation and shipping sectors. The lack of this system makes it difficult for government authorities to evaluate and guide traffic pressures. The upcoming holiday will offer the country a chance to form an advanced traffic management system, he said.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Nat...er%2Bholidays/

^TB that is all good, but the application of motorcycles is to those parts of the expressway system that doesn't forbid bikes at the local level. Bearing in mind that many different parts of the national expressway system are operated by local governments and in some cases by road construction companies. As such some parts of the expressway allow motorcycles, while other sections do not. The other aspect to consider is that tolls also can be found on national and provincial highways, wherein motorcycles generally speaking are exempt from paying tolls by using designated cycle lanes to the sides of most toll stations on those types of highways.

Essentially expressways will not charge tolls, but where motorcycle bans are in effect this will likely remain so. The upshot is that perhaps many tolls will be unmanned or at least reduced manning might occur and that might increase the chances that some riders of motorcycles chose to sneak on to expressways ;)

I think the point of this exercise is to prove to the Chinese public that Tolls are needed as a tool to fight gridlock, so that future toll payers see themselves as VIPs who are paying for less congestion.

If the express ways are going to be as congested as hell then they're, at least, not even going to bother chasing any motorcycles that sneak on. I'm just trying to imagine how much lane-splitting it will actually involve. Maybe I'll just try it around the early hours in the morning: 2am-5am. Perhaps the standard roads will be practically empty? I've a feeling that the trucks and lorries are going to have a party on the standard roads this holiday.