Wonjan

Wonjan has cleaned up its websites, they now link the Chinese and English sites and also their Alibaba page. They display their HB250V as well as the GN250-C on the English language site, they also have the new 300 bikes in some content, they are calling these World Rangers in some content and Space Ranger in other? The text all comes off awkward if not down right silly. In this part copied off the site it is not centered in its frame and also missing spaces between words, it is obvious the people involved have poor English language skills.


In May 27, 2013, "the meeting of wind and clouds and ranger," as the theme of the 2013 new product release conference was held inChengdu, Sichuan International hotel. Nearly 200 dealers from across the country attended the meeting. This also means that the spaceranger series products, the official opening of the national large-scalelisted journey.
In the listed before, a * * * with VCR, immediately shocked the audience. In the hustle and bustle of the city and imprisoned in a group, different age, different occupation crowd awakening. Riding theworld wide Ranger, to nature, to find my freedom and youth, with friends and at the top of the mountain and song and dance. Love sports, advocating free, enjoy life, enjoy life. This is the world of thebrand spirit connotation.


The site also has a video link…
http://en.wonjan.cn/index/show/14/3.html
It looks like a total mess! It looks totally disorganized and displays bike literally being banged together.

HB250-V
http://www.extreme-scooters.com/stor...in-250cc-1.jpg

GN250-C
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...df718ef455.jpg


In the restaurant business they say that the food costs cannot exceed 30% of the menu price, the other 70% pays for the labor, utilities and rent….


Wonjan is advertising the 300cc for 2600-2700 USD, that’s its price out of the factory. There is allot costs after that….these people are not getting it that bikes is not going to fetch that much in any market, not enough to cover the costs out of the factory, the distribution and support costs make it economically in-feasible to sell.


It looks rough, it looks poorly made. Even if it was very reliable it will never get to prove itself. That disorganized factory is apparent in the bike….it looks like it came out of it, it matches the website as well.
Nice try but it is not likely to fly.


To me it looks like a test bike, that never got refined before it was released to the market. It all fits in with the total lack of refinement and attention to details in everything the company is doing.

You can hear the wind for 3200 USD?
http://motor.newmotor.com.cn/WJ3004571/

http://img.newmotor.com.cn/UploadFil...0225544744.jpg

Wonjan copied the geometry of the ER6N, they stuck a copy of the KLX300 engine in the altered version of the frame, they added trellis, too much actually.



This bike looks like it was rushed to the market?
They may have copied the frame of the CFMOTO NK650 and either copied the Loncin version of the 300cc single or they are buying it from Loncin?
They are claiming the engine is based on Suzuki technology…which is a lie.


Which makes me believe there is a real asshole or a team of assholes running the show at Wonjan.
They are also not very bright as this bike is not popular at all, in fact most members of Chinese forums are ridiculing it. The fact that Wonjan made a fucked up couple of motorcycles is what makes them assholes. They cheated and took shortcuts in the effort, it is demonstrated all over the finished product. There is a degree of ignorance in doing that either in not knowing they were doing it or that customers would not see they did that.


That engine should have been set into a frame that is minimal and light.

This is the perfect design for that type of engine.


They cannot make something that is not based off something that already exists. This artist rendering does not exist so it cannot be manufactured?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...a8e79287b5.jpg

Not much different to this is it?
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gal...X300R%2007.jpg

300
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...556cc416f9.png

not sure what this is about, however these images show a the WJ300 with a GN250 Engine?
http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...7Q6S0Z5275.jpg
http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...D4wqhk4367.jpg
http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...K2iUYf3067.jpg
http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...StHJEp2320.jpg
not as if they are only making a few of these...
http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...wCMVmN4141.jpg
The build quality looks pretty good, the engine may be the bored out version? It has the twin exhaust and also an oil cooler.

I guess these are for export only and the engine is a LC178FMM, 292cc and about 22hp.

Here is the Website for these...
http://www.nationalmotor.com.tw/

wow they claim to have increased the engine to 350cc and the rating seems pretty optimistic to me@ 33hp.

http://www.nationalmotor.com.tw/images/f1.jpg

http://media.viva.co.id/thumbs2/2012...50_663_382.jpg

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...1f8d3f8376.jpg

There is a company called Dazon and they supplied a distribution company here in the USA called TANK, that went insolvent in 2009. They advertised a 350cc bike they called a KHAOS 350, Dazon has a website and they list products that have that engine and at the same 343.2cc.

TANK KHAOS 350
http://www.extreme-scooters.com/stor...aos-250-08.jpg

Here is another called Sunbeam offering the same engine on some of the models.

So behind DAZON is National Motors and they have had that 350cc engine for some time.

Wonjan has new website.
http://wonjanmotorcycle.com/

Its very awkward.

They at YEAR END 2014 ranked out of 50 top exporters @ 46th , and 49th in AVG unit value. Wonjan exported 19,545 units and with a total value of 7.8M USD,

46

Chongqing Wangjiang Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

19,545

$7,843,500.00

$401.30

They seem to be falling hard and fast.

They rank 37th in the top 50 producers, at 136,085 units. There share of the total industry is .064 percent. They fell 19.75 % in production from 2013.

37

Chongqing Wangjiang Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

136,085

169,581

-19.75

0.64

It is not entirely clear if Wonjan has decided to expand its engine production, they may have copied the DOHC 300cc single water cooled (Kawasaki/Loncin) and also the 200/223cc external balance shaft single (Zongshen) or they are purchasing them? They are offering them definitely on certain models.
This company may still have a legacy of ex-military administration, it could explain the really bad management decisions? The information on their website is often fallacious as in inaccurate, either intentionally or not does not matter. That may be due to narcissistic egocentric management? In such matters the rule should be accuracy.
They claim they expanded production in 2012, which would require investment, in that would require something that justified expanding production while actual production was falling due to falling market sales.
Taking the engines of other either into production or through outsourcing only splits the market again. It’s a bit like a kamikaze style of management. I think they could develop the engines and lines for the engines, actually some new thoughts would be needed.
I think the market is laughing at their fake Ducati and yawning at the GN250 offerings.
The website offers some insight into the relationship with National Motors who developed the Fake Ducati Models but they did not use the 300cc water cooled they used a big bore 350cc GN engine. I wonder if that big bore could be configured with the Delphi EFI and meet requirements for Chinese emissions. The standard GN250 does but lost some hp in the process, if the stated 13kw is correct. They could raise the displacement and oil cool the engine and mitigate any loss of power to meet emissions.

"Wonjan's" page on "Alibaba": in description of their "Honda Grom" clone with a... let's say - vertical cylinder engine (which at first glance appeared to me like a plain CB clone), they mentioned some interesting features.

Here's what they claim:

Attachment 17177

I am not sure, its a 150cc Suzuki type engine I believe in those. The crank case cover looks the same as what is in other models they offer.
http://wonjanmotorcycle.com/wp-conte...WJ150-18-6.jpg

Wonjan is notorious for using ambiguous stats...conflicting information abounds withing their marketing. That is why I have wondered if Opium is involved. That or their fearless leaders think that integrity is optional.

Motorcycles do traverse space, but referring to them as "Space Rangers" is so queer.

Heh, "Suzie" engine has different layout - just compare few details: position of the starter, absense of removable oil filter, balance shaft, crankcase bolt pattern, no extra bolts on head cover... As I said - I thought it is plain balanced CB clone.

http://g03.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1mjhfG...Xq6xXFXXXW.jpg

Maybe Humanbeing could solve our dillema about this engine...

Chinese Suzuki?
http://www.euromot.cl/fichas/recurso...gif?1420465040
My assumption that it’s a Suzuki, but actually it is not is it, its a Haojue engine that probably is derived from a Honda?

Most of Haojue’s offerings have that engine, or an OHV type in some, opposed to having a Suzuki engine. Then look at Qinqi’s offerings they primarily offer Suzuki type engines. Both are have partnerships with Suzuki and both manufacture Suzuki branded models.
What is different is that only Wonjan manufactures the GN250 Suzuki and only Qingqi makes the new 250 single.
Wonjan not embracing the GN250 seems counterintuitive to me, not taking it to up to 350cc as others have seems illogical, or National Motors claims of 24kw are exaggerated? The engine if it offers 33hp in that bored out version…why not add an oil cooler and EFI to it? Why not take up were National motors is at?
They failed at selling the GN250 in other models and then gave up, then come up with an over designed Trellis Frame model with a water cooled 300cc single, that they likely purchase from Loncin. They went into outer space in that effort….they are the Space Rangers in that.
They brought back the GN250-C (volty) and overpriced it, they seem to not be able to get any volume sales for the engine, simply because they refuse to mass produce it into a line of different models.
They could develop a line off that engine and offer it up to 350cc, they could and should work on that and refine and tune it. However if they rise up and start naming things “Big Row” and “space rangers” it is all unnerving.
They need some experts in planning, its about developing in tangent, there are plenty of potential distributors globally and their current approach leaves them wilting on the vine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

My assumption that it’s a Suzuki, but actually it is not is it, its a Haojue engine that probably is derived from a Honda?

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Agree. This is not the first time that someone in China is doing the same thing (remember QJ's "Suzie" GS clone with 4V head?).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

Wonjan not embracing the GN250 seems counterintuitive to me, not taking it to up to 350cc as others have seems illogical, or National Motors claims of 24kw are exaggerated? The engine if it offers 33hp in that bored out version…why not add an oil cooler and EFI to it? Why not take up were National motors is at?

---

Or, why someone among Chinese partner of "Suzuki" doesn't start to make fifteen years ago phased out DR 350 engine. It is 30 healthy ponies air/oil cooled balanced engine with 6 speed gearbox and, at the same time, affordable technology with which can cope each of these "Suzuki's" Chinese partners.

The GN250 is already in production, there are bore kits for it that take it to 300.

GN250 cylinder volume: stroke 61.2MM` bore 72MM = actual displacement 249cc.
Maximum power: 15.5KW/8000r/min
Maximum torque: 19.5Nm/5500r/min
GN300 cylinder volume: stroke 61.2MM` bore 78MM =actual displacement 298cc
Maximum power: 19KW/8000r/min
Maximum torque: 23Nm/5500r/min
GN350 cylinder volume: stroke 61.2MM` bore 84.5MM = actual displacement 343.2cc
Maximum power: 24KW/8000r/min
Maximum torque: ?Nm/5500r/min

The 350 version of that engine exists it seems it was used quite a bit in ATV’s.
National Motors had a blip for minute they put the 350cc into the same frames as Wonjan uses for its 300.
http://attachments.motorfans.com.cn/...wCMVmN4141.jpg

I would have just put it into this frame…
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/14258421_P1380089.JPG\\
In that lot of versions of it could be made, this one is inspiring…
http://speedtractor.com/wp-content/u...VMX_lowres.jpg
here is another…
http://i2.wp.com/www.iotomotif.com/w...size=450%2C280

Seems to me that they could have taken the same approach as Qingqi did with its 249cc single but with better offerings with more styles and more engine sizes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

GN350 cylinder volume: stroke 61.2MM` bore 84.5MM = actual displacement 343.2cc
Maximum power: 24KW/8000r/min
Maximum torque: ?Nm/5500r/min

---

Whoa! It is more than 12 mm increased bore, comparing to stock 250 cc. Nicely done.

And again, there is also phased out GS 500 twin engine...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zorge

And again, there is also phased out GS 500 twin engine...

---

Suzuki has a plant in Columbia that make the GS500, it is sold for about $6,000.00USD.

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...39a27c34b6.png

They also make these 150 models…15 hp Gixxer, retail @ $2,500.00 USD

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...648123b247.png

If you take a look at

http://wonjanmotorcycle.com/product/...-bike/gn250-b/

you can read, that gn250-b - and gn250-c as well - have electronic fuel injection. But if you look at the pictures of these bikes, they seem to have fuel delivery by carburettors. In my opinion contradictory information. What do you think is true.

They sell an EFI version in China, http://motor.newmotor.com.cn/GN250C3761/
I do not think you can import those into Europe, none have taken any initiative to put the models through the process for emissions certification for the EU. Doing so, would be economically prohibitive, the wholesale prices out of the factory too high, the demand for such a model too low to justify importing and distributing in the EU.
The wholesale price they are requesting is around 1800 USD, the retail prices in China are about 2800 USD. That is only a 1k margin, to get a unit from China to the customer and support it, just not economically sustainable.
The wholesale price would need to be lower, closer to 1500.00 per unit and the retail price in the EU closer to 3k, but the B and C designs are not likely to be popular, the GN250-B is homely and the C version not much better.
The Big Boy version is much more design neutral and could be modified to be much more popular.
http://www.thaiscooter.com/forums/at...1&d=1335433793

Here are their advertised engines, which makes you wonder if the have brought the 300cc single to production?

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...4ae400b039.jpg

New "Borile" B 300 CR with Chinese GN engine bored out to 300 cc. "Wonjan's" engine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMx8Aoq0l4

"...quattro-mille-otto-cento-cinquanta-euro..." :frump:

And to all "Tuttomoto" fans: Nico is still alive!!! :thumbsup:

Gosh, I really miss "La prova di Nico". :sad:

I was wondering about Wonjan and why they do not sell the engines, they likely do and only to other manufacturers. What they do not do is sell single engines at retail. I would assume that Wonjan will only sell the engine to a partner or subsidiary, as with Qingqi.

The Borile is likely getting the GN from Wonjan or Loncin? I would say they are getting the engine from Loncin...different starter and different case covers reveal that, it has the case cover of the LX250-7. The displacement of 290cc and dual exhaust as in the T-Rex.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...2af47eaae4.jpg

Quanto fanno questi costi ? Its engine is Ducati?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...63dc3376a0.jpg

Quanto costa un' piccolo orgasmo!? :naughty:

Oh, man, your Italian is worst than my English. By far! :lol8:

Looks that you are right - I keep forgetting that "Loncin" too makes GN clones. Good for "Loncin"!

About "Borile" 450 engine: as I understand, they took "Ducati's" rear AC cylinder, piston, and SOHC desmo head and all that fitted to new crankcase with extactable gears (dunno know whay they emphasize that) and "Weber-Marelli" injection. Because of the engine layout, tank and air filter changed places.

And "quanto costa" this thing? I believe, more than 10K euros.