CFMoto & KTM

MJH, what you are talking about is purely management related. Companies are run despotically, power is clung to good advice and bad advice is equally dismissed. CEOs want to be experts, but they aren't and kill their own businesses. All you have to do is ask customers what they want, but no, that's too easy, the CEO can guess what they want, when they get it wrong the whole thing collapses. I'd suspect most motorcycle related successes are due to importers or riders telling Chinese companies what to make early on, when the Chinese were so clueless they had to ask. Later on 'they think they know' and must take control or lose 'face', of course they don't and this is where the problems start. Main reason why the JV's work much better. When the bigger more experienced companies call the shots things work much better.

I doubt a KTM/CFMOTO JV would work out. KTM will want to use CFMOTO the same way Suzuki use Haojue, and provide the Chinese market with KTM at a cheaper price point, and then export KTM for cheaper price points to the west to compete with Japanese bike export prices from Made in Thailand bikes. However by now CFMOTO management probably think their own farts smell good and will want to make decisions and have equal input or even call the shots, which obviously would be a disaster. I doubt Chinese management can tolerate the thought that KTM are masters and they are the noobs. I hope I'm wrong and actually CFMOTO do have a mature enough culture, time will tell.

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Originally Posted by prince666

what is your point here ..... is it Australians people are BAD and get sent to jail or are you saying these peopel should not be in prison !!!!

I have loads of time no need to work so please we can keep on with these posts golf is over now with Charl SCHWARTZEL (RSA) the winner maybe he will get sent to prison as well lol

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http://www.afr.com/p/national/arts_s...oLYRugkJDxyigN

http://www.smh.com.au/world/charlott...014-2vien.html

There are plenty of stories of foreign businesses loosing everything in China this is not new but I think it is becoming more common in the last few years.Hence many companies are extremely wary in doing deals with China.

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Originally Posted by bigdamo

http://www.afr.com/p/national/arts_s...oLYRugkJDxyigN

http://www.smh.com.au/world/charlott...014-2vien.html

There are plenty of stories of foreign businesses loosing everything in China this is not new but I think it is becoming more common in the last few years.Hence many companies are extremely wary in doing deals with China.

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You think China is bad you need to read about Thailand with Farlangs !!!!! who live or work in Thailand
But with most of these cases their is no such a thing as "fire without heat?" and dont you find it strange that most of the court defendant was chinese descended because i do

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Originally Posted by prince666

You think China is bad you need to read about Thailand with Farlangs !!!!! who live or work in Thailand
But with most of these cases their is no such a thing as "fire without heat?" and dont you find it strange that most of the court defendant was chinese descended because i do

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Ok what about that British business man who was murdered.What's " chinese descended " got to do with it.

I have two friends who moved their manufacturing operations from China to Thailand a few years ago they both say they are now doing better than when they were based in China. This is not uncommon these days.

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Originally Posted by bigdamo

Ok what about that British business man who was murdered.What's " chinese descended " got to do with it.

I have two friends who moved their manufacturing operations from China to Thailand a few years ago they both say they are now doing better than when they were based in China. This is not uncommon these days.

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Neil Heywood was his name ???

23 Aug 2013 - Neil Heywood was murdered in China because he demanded £1.4 million from the family of Bo Xilai in an argument over a French villa, a court ...

as i said in most cases no such a thing as "fire without heat?" peope just dont get killed for no reason not to say the Bo Xilai was right all i said was FROM the link you posted most of the defendant was chinese descended you picked these link not me .... as to Thailand just have a read about what goes on in Thailand read here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/ i have a home in North Thailand as well and i can say China is far better to live in.... By the way have you lived in China or Thailand and i dont mean vist ... i mean live ????

And your 2 friends must be happy with only 49% and cant own land Thailand is only good for drugs, drink and banging Thail birds that why i can only stand 12 weeks a year their lol

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Originally Posted by prince666

Neil Heywood was his name ???

23 Aug 2013 - Neil Heywood was murdered in China because he demanded £1.4 million from the family of Bo Xilai in an argument over a French villa, a court ...

as i said in most cases no such a thing as "fire without heat?" peope just dont get killed for no reason not to say the Bo Xilai was right all i said was FROM the link you posted most of the defendant was chinese descended you picked these link not me .... as to Thailand just have a read about what goes on in Thailand read here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/ i have a home in North Thailand as well and i can say China is far better to live in.... By the way have you lived in China or Thailand and i dont mean vist ... i mean live ????

And your 2 friends must be happy with only 49% and cant own land Thailand is only good for drugs, drink and banging Thail birds that why i can only stand 12 weeks a year their lol

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Prince I have lived and done business in China off and on for the past 20+ years I have a fair idea how things are done in China.

Of course I knew his name you start putting certain key words up here and you will attract certain attention from the certain groups.Yep I shouldn't have posted those links but you wanted some evidence of why global business are wary of investing in China now.

Oh I see it was all Neils fault and all those other business people thrown in jail wouldn't have been GREEDY Chinese so called partners by any chance wannting not a bigger slice of the pie no they want the whole pie and then make you loose face big time.How long have you been living in China a few years I guess but one of those people just have no idea of what goes on around them.

So if foreigners can't own land in Thailand how is that you have a house there. Such a quaint picture you paint of Thailand but you still spend 3 months of the year there. I hear there is alot drugs,drinking, KTV and banging going on in China also.Sometimes I even see many women of the night advertising there wares with no shortage of customers.

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Originally Posted by bigdamo

Prince I have lived and done business in China off and on for the past 20+ years I have a fair idea how things are done in China.

Of course I knew his name you start putting certain key words up here and you will attract certain attention from the certain groups.Yep I shouldn't have posted those links but you wanted some evidence of why global business are wary of investing in China now.



Oh I see it was all Neils fault and all those other business people thrown in jail wouldn't have been GREEDY Chinese so called partners by any chance wannting not a bigger slice of the pie no they want the whole pie and then make you loose face big time.How long have you been living in China a few years I guess but one of those people just have no idea of what goes on around them.

So if foreigners can't own land in Thailand how is that you have a house there. Such a quaint picture you paint of Thailand but you still spend 3 months of the year there. I hear there is alot drugs,drinking, KTV and banging going on in China also.Sometimes I even see many women of the night advertising there wares with no shortage of customers.

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House, and business all in Thail names there is ways around it but is a gray area and risky you pulled a few links up to show people on here how bad China has got but i am sure it will still not stop people from investing money into China and you need to ask your friends about Thailand and what realy goes on .Here i find Chinese people are friendly in most cases i ride with 100% Chinese and i mix with 100% Chinese but in Thailand the local people dont like Farlangs maybe things will change over time here in China time will only tell but for now IMO China is the place to be for me. Been coming here for 25 years on and off, full time 4 years but i am not a Ostrich

Everyone has a difference point of view about China that why you dont live here no more thats is not to say you are right or wrong its just your point of view .

Yeah I put the links up to show that doing business in China has got well.Those Chinese/Australian got hammered because A they renounced their citizenship and B were still using the residents card.Foreigners will get an opportunity to sell business/shares and told its wise to head on home. Well I know of two cases and they lost a considerable amount of money one their marriage as well. Both really were naive to how things were done in China and believed someone telling them things (rumor) and people telling them they had friends contacts in high places that can make their business millions. Hence it really gets me riled up when people start spreading rumors sometimes people get hurt.

By the way I/we have real estate in China and the business I/we just started up here in Australia still has the China factor in it so I'm back and forth.

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Originally Posted by bigdamo

Yeah I put the links up to show that doing business in China has got well.Those Chinese/Australian got hammered because A they renounced their citizenship and B were still using the residents card.Foreigners will get an opportunity to sell business/shares and told its wise to head on home. Well I know of two cases and they lost a considerable amount of money one their marriage as well. Both really were naive to how things were done in China and believed someone telling them things (rumor) and people telling them they had friends contacts in high places that can make their business millions. Hence it really gets me riled up when people start spreading rumors sometimes people get hurt.

By the way I/we have real estate in China and the business I/we just started up here in Australia still has the China factor in it so I'm back and forth.

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So even you who knows how bad it could be in China still does business here talk about " pot calling the kettle black" intresting !!! wish you well hope it works out ok for you

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Originally Posted by prince666

So even you who knows how bad it could be in China still does business here talk about " pot calling the kettle black" intresting !!! wish you well hope it works out ok for you

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Hey read my post.My business is not based in China nor is it registered in China it is registered in Australia based in Australia. I don't get payed in RMB or US dollars.It has a China factor to it as I said.I was offered a month or so to go partners or something with a Chines friend in business (I don't waste my time even listening beyond "we can set up/use your talents in our business which you can be a partner of)I gracefully declined. 10 plus years ago any western person in China was getting these offers all the time these days very rarely but yes there are greedy gullible people out there taking in all sorts of BS stories. I don't think KTM is one of them.