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Hi AW,
No worries mate, just trying to give the full story here. I am making a lot of parts for German company so I can understand your standards. It is very difficult to try to match that in China but not impossible. Send us the plates whenever you can get your hands on them. Do you know that your JH600 is now famous nationwide?
Cheers,
Franki
...nationwide? You mean on moto8? Send me some links, please. Too bad I can't read Chinese since I am really interested about what is going on in the local Chinese motorcycle scene - especially about JH600 of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franki
AW.
I have posted the progress of your modification on 6 well known Chinese forums. One of them is the dedicated JH600 forum. I want to let the Chinese biker to know about how your JH600 is being transformed into something that handles better, delivers power smoother and can be toured in comfort. Most of the Chinese bikers are still starting their bike trip with their 125cc and a large nylon bag strapped to their back seat + a red flag. Therefore, your modification is like no-holds-bar to them and gave them a vision of what can be done to a bike sensibly and the future of bike touring in China.:scooter:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfaelzer
thats a great idea, come holiday and vacation time there can be hords of riding groups exploring the countryside here in PRC. many large groups of Chinese riders some numbering into the hundreds can be found riding between point A and point B exploring, rather than just using the motorcycle as a means of transport only. When I travelled with my riding mates last CNY/Spring Festival (Feb-2010) throughout Zhejiang, Jiangxi and Anhui we saw and met many large groups of motorcycle riders touring around the provinces. Most of the groups consisted of small 125cc bikes etc, all with a Chinese flag attached somewhere on the bike. There was one group that had larger bikes which consisted of Chinese and foreign riders that are based in Yiwu. During our own two week ride, we actually would happen to meet up with one or another group of riders we'd previously met earlier on our journey. Naturally we took and had lots of photos taken of us... One day I'll get round to posting some ride reports and photos...Quote:
Originally Posted by Franki
But my reply here is to support the idea and promulgation of the ideas and changes in this thread, so that others can learn and get ideas on how they might like to improve or modify their rides etc.
Keep it up I say!
Also the modifications are looking great. I for one, would (as stated previously) like to buy one of these JH600's, but for now, I have to sit tight as I determine what my next move will be in the near future... If I end up staying on here, then I'll most likely get myself one... still have to make room for it in the garage though.
Franki,
it's good that you are spreading the news about having fun with motorcycles in China. Glad I can help a bit. This might help our community to get a stronger lobby, at least once the industry sees some chances for business there. I have seen some pictures of other chinese riders with their JH600. They should also have their ideas to customize their bikes. If you know something interesting, please share it here, so that we, of the non-chinese-speaking world can see it.
Cheers, AW.
Welcome to the JH600 family. I hope you will stay and explore how wonderful China is outside of Zhejiang. JH600 is designed for tours extending over 5000-10000km. Come to the northweatern part and get ready to be shocked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
OK, AW, I shall surely post something interesting here if I see any. Now please get your big wheels and knobbies in and put it on the bike. I think it will change the ride and look greatly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfaelzer
I am trying to establish a JH600 beach head here in Nanjing. My JH600 is on order. I appreciate the expert advice from Franki and AW. The Nanjing motorcycle riding will definitely get a bit more off the pavement in June for sure. I can only hope to keep up with half the innovations that AW and Franki are working on!
Keeping the rubber side down
DT
Haha Franki thanks for the invite, I've been following your JH600 and Pfeazers one too. I'm a little jealous though as I would like to have my cake and eat it too by having a choice of bikes to ride. Now I'm in possession of a 125cc JinJing Scooter and my Dragstar 1100 Classic, but ideally I'd like a dual-purpose BMW f800gs (or similar and that's how the JH600 fits in, since the bemmer is too overpriced in PRC), plus the Dragstar and I'd like a Yammie 500 T-max (or similar). I've ridden a lot outside of Zhejiang, and I know in some ways riding in Zhejiang can and does spoil me with so many great mountain ranges to choose from and with a lot of better quality roads than some other provinces (Jiangxi comes to mind). I realise too that there are reasons why a dual-purpose bike is so much more useful here than a straight out road orientated bike like my Dragstar (again Jiangxi's poor excuses for roads comes to mind), despite that, still I've ridden on some tracks and trails in Zhejiang on both my scooters and the Dragstar. Even rode on a 40km mud rutted shingle 'road' not far from Ningbo one evening not so long ago. Seriously that so called shingle track/road was just a mud rutted hole from hell that me and my mate must have been crazy to ride it on our Dragstar 1100's. But there you go... some people think that just riding a motorbike is crazy in-itself!Quote:
Originally Posted by Franki
For me the JH600 represents a reasonably priced bike in the Chinese market, that has the possibility of being altered into something a little more dual-purpose... and Pfeazers modifications are the direction I'd like to head in, if (and when) I get one. So for now I've to be patient and await the outcome on some choices being made which will affect my future in PRC.
Hi bikerdoc,
once it comes to the point, it really doesn't matter, which bike you ride. There are people going on all kinds or 2-wheelers around the world. From little 50cc's, Vespas, Enfields, 125cc's,regular road bikes up to specialized dual-purposebikes, big Beemers or R1's. What matters is your attitude and preferences. A JH600 I think could go around the world without any mod. But then there are the "always need to improve", play, fun, showing-off factors,... :riding:
Enjoy your ride!
AW.
Hi,
since some of you are considering to buy a Wilbers rear suspension system, I have edited the related post with some critical information. Especially, if you are going to get it built in by a local work-shop, this might be important to consider.
Please check this post:
REAR SUSPENSION MODIFICATION - edited 04-23-2010
I am working on details about the front spring conversion (change to progressive springs) and will call Wilbers in Germany during the next days about it. I will also tell them to take a look at these treads so that they can come up with an easier to assemble solution.
Greetings,
AW.
Agree completely... and I am into improving a ride somewhat to my liking, not for the bling purposes that some might :naughty:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfaelzer
...know what you mean, I'm sometimes a bit "over the top", right? But I like playing around with the bike and see what I can turn it into. Met a bunch of nice guys through the postings too, so I'll continue...AW.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
Phaelzer,
Can you tell me the bolt size you used for the rear shock? I am going to the states and think I will get a few high grade bolts there to bring back with me. My 127kg arse will stress any bolt and I would like to make sure I get good replacement on there. I do not have reliable source here in Nanjing for this.
DT
Hi,
finally I took the time to look more into the details here. One reason for the sudden hurry is, that some of you have decided to go for this modification as well.
The plan is, to measure the original spring and fork details, give it to Wilbers and ask them to suggest a spring - hopefully from their stock, for the JH600. The coil of the original spring has a linear design, which means that the stress is increasing linear to the load. This can be problematic, in case of extreme stress peaks during for example off-road riding. Hitting a pot-hole, the load becomes so high, that you basically would need stronger spring, so that the front doesn't bottom out. That spring would be too strong for regular use. The compromise here is a progressive spring. These springs do not have a constant spring rate but the rate increases with the load.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...92_PG7UU-L.jpg
Progressive springs. You can see that the coil is getting narrower at one end.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...59_jCacH-L.jpg
Opening up the top is easy. The spring is being pushed down by the screw with a spacer. This is good news. It will give us more room with the choice of replacement since we can vary the length of the spacer accordingly.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...38_kWCva-L.jpg
There is a washer on top of the spring. I pull the spring out with a wire.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...25_QyuTE-L.jpg
Measurement of spring-load to top of tube: 15mm.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...99_VjiVd-L.jpg
Here the complete assembly.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...32_RbuSe-L.jpg
Here I measure the oil-level inside the tube.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...23_sceLY-L.jpg
The method is a bit rough but the level is at around 290mm measured from the bottom of the tube.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...93_h8f9L-L.jpg
Here some of the main measurements of the original spring:
Lo (total length): 540mm
Do (outside diameter): 34mm
d (thickness of wire): 5mm
Di (inside diameter): 24mm
m (coil space): 13mm
Number of windings: 40
Inside diameter of fork tube: 35mm
Length of spacer: 150mm
Washer thickness: 1.5mm
Height of threat of the cover screw: 18mm
Inside depth of the fork tube: 680mm - totally decompressed
Fork travel: 170mm - 180mm (based on manual)
Pre-load: 15mm to top of tube + 18mm thread of top cover screw = 23mm total
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...42_FreCN-L.jpg
Here a testing set-up to measure the spring rate.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...30_wACWW-L.jpg
The spring is now inside of the lower tube. The upper tube acts as a piston, which loads the spring with different weights.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...47_LFg4s-L.jpg
Here my laboratory working table with all tools and notes...
Oh, the calculated test result after averaging four different loads is 8.2N/mm (spring rate).
Well, now I will try to contact Wilbers, give them the link of this post and then let's see what they are coming up with. Stay tuned for more to come here... I'll go to the workshop and put everything together again.
2010-04-27 Update
Talked to Wilbers and they needed one more information about the sag of the bike with an without rider. We measured like that:
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...42_cx7Z9-L.jpg
Sag unloaded: 17.9mm
Sag with rider: 41.2mm (riders weight 95kg)
Referring the problem, that the front bottoms out during hard riding, there is the possibility to add more oil into the front fork, which reduces the air volume and therefor makes compression harder. The critical measurement here is actually to be measured from the oil-level up to the cover of the tube without springs in the tube.
At my bike I measured: 390mm
NEW! Just received information from SHOWA through Franki on the oil capacity used in the original fork:
- Fork oil SS-8
- Capacity for X02(Domestic Model)：534 ccm and for the X02C(Euro Model)：599ccm +/-2.5cc
However, since there will be different springs inside of the tube, the oil volume will need to be adjusted. I decided to measure the oil level, with the spring inside.
I have also decided, to put those good looking rubber boots on the fork, this means that I have to disassemble the complete front.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...05_E4JkR-L.jpg
Looks a bit "handicapped"...
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...88_qEarM-L.jpg
Here the comparison of original and progressive spring
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...69_bmdxV-L.jpg
SURPRISE! Check out the different colors of the fork oil, which I took from the left and right tube...:eekers:
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...86_wLyM3-L.jpg
It made really sense to change the oil.
Here the oil I have chosen for now:
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...22_gvUMF-L.jpg
Despite of previous informations, I took almost exactly 500 ml out of each tube.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...34_Qne8g-L.jpg
I measured now the oil level in the tube, fully extended, without spring of 180mm from the top. With this nice tool I can set the new level precisely.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc..._qs7ZhGV-L.jpg
Fill up a bit over the measured volume...
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...94_qj3uK-L.jpg
...and suck the excessive oil out again to the right level.
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...73_JFndE-L.jpg
Fit the boot
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...21_9Tu4X-L.jpg
Front end assembly
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...49_4MqqK-L.jpg
The new look
http://pfaelzer.smugmug.com/Motorcyc..._H4Dwwnj-L.jpg
First test ride feels more balance and solid. I have to go a bit more off road, to see if the front bottoms still out or not. After that I will decide to add some more oil, or maybe take some oil out to maximize travel.
Considering the relatively low costs and easy job, it is recommendable to do this, especially in combination with a stronger rear shock or traveling fully loaded. I have a eastern ride ahead of me. After that I can let you know some more road experience with this modification.
Will keep you posted.
Cheers, AW.
...back to modification list.
You have more toys in your lab than I do in Texas and Nanjing combined. You are winning.
Keep me posted. I ordered rear spring/shock assembly and front springs from Franki. I am sure you two are in communications. I can wait till new changes are confirmed to work. Nice to have you doing the R&D. I owe you lots of beer or wine!
DT
TexasAggie,Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasAggie
The bolt is a M10. Important is that the head and the nut are not taking up too much space. We have about 12 - 15mm room at each side. What you can't see on the picture is, that the complete lever mechanism is a bit moving to each side - not really stiff. So You need to have some mm room between the bolt/nut and the outside levers. Hope this is somehow understandable...
AW.
Very clear. I am familiar with the Honda suspension on y Baja bike. This sounds very similar. What about the bolt length? I think I can buy some low profile bolts that would work.
Thanks again
DT
Well, the outside dimension of the fork is almost 41mm. Then you need 3mm for 2 washers, at least 8mm for the nut, that makes 54mm (M10X55 would be the choice then). Last time the Wilbers guys were not able to incorporate a thread into the fork, which would make things less tight. Make sure you choose a bolt with a rather low head hight. I milled all down a bit to get more room.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasAggie
AW.
Great information, I saw it looked like you took a mm or two off the head. I can work with this information for sure. Thanks.
Well, I posted some of your photos to my threads at Chinese biker forums, everyone kept quiet. I think they are still searching for words. hahaha... Great work AW!
Franki, can you list the Chinese forums where you've posted? Some of us can read them, and others can also enjoy the pictures -- and search for any familiar words!Quote:
Originally Posted by Franki
thanks!
Euphonius
One more thing TexasAggie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfaelzer
If you get a bolt, then it would be good if it had no tread for 40 - 45mm (depending on how many washer you use) from the head. Like this the fork of the shock would not sit on the tread but on smooth surface of the bolt - UNLESS, Wilbers would put a thread in one side of the fork, as it is done on the original Showa shock. I will try to call them next week. Keep you posted on news.
Nice weekend,
AW.
Thanks Pfaelzer,
It would be easier if the fork had a threaded hole for sure.
Hope you had a good weekend there.
AW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfaelzer
I found a couple of the threads!Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
http://www.joinbike.com/bbs/viewthre...age%3D1&page=1
http://www.xcar.com.cn/bbs/viewthrea...thread=&page=1
:lol8: Franki is keeping his posts really updated. The front spring testing is already there. Very nice. Again, if there is something interesting on these chinese sites about JH600 modifications, please post it here for the non-chinese speaking community. I am very curious to see if some people out there have other or different ideas.
AW.
Euphonius,Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
These are the threads I have posted on different forums to give a wide spread audiance:
http://bbs.fblife.com/viewthread.php...age%3D1&page=1
http://www.motoyes.net/bbs/thread-283485-1-1.html
http://www.joinbike.com/bbs/viewthre...age%3D1&page=1
http://www.moto8.cn/viewthread.php?t...&extra=&page=5
http://www.xcar.com.cn/bbs/viewthrea...thread=&page=1
http://www.motof.org/viewthread.php?...&extra=&page=1
Enjoy reading the Chinese:deal:
Franki
Good to see all the pictures even if I cannot read it!
DT
thanks, franki. looking forward to mixing with the chinese-language JH600 community. there are as of now still none in shanghai, where jialing has sold only 5 sidecars, but no two-wheelers.
mine apparently will be the first.
Hi,
I have updated following modification posts:
REAR SUSPENSION MODIFICATION - edited 04-27-2010
PROGRESSIVE FRONT SPRINGS - edited 04-27-2010
Still in communication with Wilbers on suspension details. Once this is done it will be easy to order these parts - provided that you are convinced about your return of investment... Everyone has to decide this on his own, since the stock suspension is really not that bad. My suggestion is to try it out first :riding: before making decisions.
Cheers,
AW.