Qjiang QJ600GS / Benelli BJ600GS - rumors thread

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Originally Posted by felix

I'm often disappointed by chinese reviews/reports of chinese bikes. There's the 2nd generation rich kids who will step off their ducati hypermotard say 'chinese piece of shit' before even looking at it, and then there's the china-is-mighty crowd that will hail it as a triumph of creative genius and technical innovation regardless what it is.

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Yeah I get; 'it can't be any good if it only costs that', 'that bike is so-so' with no mention why, or 'it's really good'. Although If the Benelli proves reliable I reckon the it will sell, because it's cheap enough, but at the same time exotic enough to end up in the garages of many people that hardly ever ride, like my neighbor who has a dragstar he rode twice last year down to the shops.

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Originally Posted by soberpete

Two's up on that idea I'd love to do the same thing but I can imagine the majority of the locals getting excited about having an open track to themselves, overdoing it and getting into a real mess. At least in the chaos of city traffic they would feel the comfort of the constant danger restricting them.

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It could work if you made sure everyone had licenses and safety equipment, got four laps each, and paid for extras. You might need to breath test riders in the afternoons!

this would definitely be a alternative to a Yamaha XJ6, would need to look round the whole bike myself to get a real opinion on quality but for the price it does look very good

Its a very good motorcycle on paper, it looks good as well.

It compares really well to the Yamaha XJ6 that sells for about $9,300 in the UK and also the FZ6R that is offered in the US for $7,690.00.

Considering the price of the Benelli it really is not that cheap, not really.

Something interesting is happening, it looks like pricing parity, the theoretical prices in China are or sometimes mirroring a US price point. It could be a result of them pegging on the currency?

The Chinese Market price of $6,309.93 would be a theoretical market price for that model if offered in the US, but it is missing the dealer network that it would require to be successful and also the brand recognition as well.

If it ends up in the UK it would be at least $7,571.92, the difference in pricing in the UK to the US is primarily the 20% VAT

The MSRP already factors in all the margins so the only missing costs is transshipping and that is not that much per unit could add $250-$350 per unit.

It will not likely ever be offered in the US but could be in the UK.

What is missing is this, when I goggle FZ6R service manual I get this result.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Factory.../dp/B002I4IZ7Q

I do not really care what others think…and for confidence in a brand I want access to what is considered universally required by everyone that knows anything and that is access to technical documents and also easy access to parts.

reading a article in MCN from february it estimates £5000 mark once tax has been accounted for, even with confirmation from benelli officials that it will be made available in the UK
Yamaha's used to be cheap to buy bikes but the main problem is that yamaha UK buy off Yamaha Europe who in turn have to purchase of Yamaha Japan which makes some models expensive to buy in the first place this is very dependant on where the bike was built

:rolleyes1: Tomorrow's the day! I wonder what 998S and his friends will decide to do :popcorn:.

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Originally Posted by soberpete

:rolleyes1: Tomorrow's the day! I wonder what 998S and his friends will decide to do :popcorn:.

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Need to have more patients .. Just found out it is a working day tomorrow and Sunday.
They doubt they can get off ... I guess it will be delayed a week :(

Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday is off - no excuses please

Saturday is working day for Motokai, but if the weather is good and the visit happens at lunchtime, I'm game.
But reality is, I really should first fix my wiring issue or I'll never get good "trade-in value" for the JH600! :bling:

Was reading-up more on the BJ600GS on the China forums.
Sometimes for the longer postings I get lazy and will use Google Chrome's Translate feature.

I'd like to share this one posting (courtesy of Google Translate) with all my MCM mates - the translation comes out quite poetic!
And after all it is Spring and we should be celebrating this motorcycle season! Enjoy.........
__________________________________________________ ____________________

I do not like long-winded, not fine assessment, I want to commend the spring breeze and the Qiantang River, the good kind

You fans of the domestic large displacement of our own, salute you
despise those joint ventures, even though you earn take most of the profits of the domestic motorcycle market,
but we look forward to the large displacement, do not you bring.

The comments of the following individuals may make a party fans unhappy,
the original understanding, but also a real
The shape - Huanglong and the spring breeze, two car styling and design,
I think that there is no better or worse, the so-called apples and oranges,
there are people who love, like Huanglong mad batch of spring breeze how ugly,
in turn, like the spring breeze can also be the same mad batch of Huanglong.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

fucking poetic!
you can find the original Chinese text here if curious

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Originally Posted by andre555

Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday is off - no excuses please

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Three days off indeed, I fear for the Benelli shop workers too although i hope I'm wrong.

MotoKai, that was indeed very poetic!
Come to thing of it, all Chinese-English translations could be considered a sort of poetry when it doesn't quite make sense.

Have just seen this bike in Nanjing, Huju North Road QianJiang shop.
The dealer quoted 39800 yuan + 9000 yuan license plates, almost 50K together. That's quite offsetting, really, because the bike doesn't feel a 40 grand one.
Styling's OK, doesn't look extremely original, though. I mean, Kawasaki ER6N; ChunFeng 650 NK and now this one. C'mon.
Another thing - it is small. I mean, really small. My previous Yamaha FZ6N looks larger compared to Benelli. Hence, not enough room.
Not enough room for pillion either.
Bike has lots of sensors: ABS, some stuff in all 4 exhaust pipes. Bike has computer. Bike's made in China. Could be quite nice on mechanical side, but I wouldn't say the same about electrical/electronic part.
Nice sounding stock exhaust. High-pitch whistling sound when revved hard.
Mixed impressions, would really want to ride it after all.

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Originally Posted by Steve_Halt

I mean, Kawasaki ER6N; ChunFeng 650 NK and now this one.

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All reminds me of a 4 way review that MCN did of cheap 125cc commuters. Almost pointless because the best bike will be the one that gets to 5 years old with the least repair and most original parts functioning.

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Originally Posted by Steve_Halt

Bike has lots of sensors: ABS, some stuff in all 4 exhaust pipes. Bike has computer. Bike's made in China. Could be quite nice on mechanical side, but I wouldn't say the same about electrical/electronic part.

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Yes, certainly all the high tech-ness is a bit scary on a Chinese bike.

Unless you try it, there's nothing but a feeling.
And it feels like that's not a long-lasting bike. 5 years old... highly unlikely.
I'd love to have it for a long-term test so that I could review it somehow, but at a 40K price point that's almost impossible.
BTW, I asked if they do trade-ins here in Nanjing, so that I could probably trade my bike in for that one sometime this autumn. The shop assistant said it was impossible. Looked like they were totally unaware of the whole "trade-in" concept.

to be fair most modern japanese 600,s would be pretty tired after 5 years

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Originally Posted by zhu

to be fair most modern japanese 600,s would be pretty tired after 5 years

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Absolutely agreed. Still depends on daily usage, riding style and all that.

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Originally Posted by zhu

to be fair most modern japanese 600,s would be pretty tired after 5 years

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That's not really correct. I did 15,000 kilometers on a 1985 Honda CBX650E, in 2000, with 50,000 on the clock and it didn't miss a beat. But then again an abused Gixxer might not be as good.

Oh, and one more thing: what's with the name? BJ? Seriously?
I had a BJ before. Kawasaki BJ 250 Estrella.
My friends made fun of the name. Everyone.
I don't think I want to ride a BJ anymore.

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Originally Posted by Steve_Halt

Oh, and one more thing: what's with the name? BJ? Seriously?
I had a BJ before. Kawasaki BJ 250 Estrella.
My friends made fun of the name. Everyone.
I don't think I want to ride a BJ anymore.

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The name makes me want to ride it even more. The feeling of riding it reflects on the name and they could mock me but I was the one getting a BJ...

Come to think of it - hell, yeah.
I concur :)

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

That's not really correct. I did 15,000 kilometers on a 1985 Honda CBX650E, in 2000, with 50,000 on the clock and it didn't miss a beat. But then again an abused Gixxer might not be as good.

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yeah i was thinking more of the bikes built sometime *this*century

those old hondas would go to the moon and back

sigh... they just dont make em like they used to

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Originally Posted by zhu

to be fair most modern japanese 600,s would be pretty tired after 5 years

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:bs:

Absolutely disagree. A Japanese 600 with a touch of maintenance and care here or there will easily last a decade and 100,000 kilometers without major repair. My V-Strom 650 is almost 5 years old with 50,000 China kilometers on it and it looks and runs like new. Summer 2010 I bought a 6 year old Kawasaki Concours with 20,000 miles on the clock. My wife and I rode it 20,000 kilometers across America and I sold it for the exact same price I purchased it for. Bikes that are taken care of tend to last a very long time. Despite my best efforts, all of my Chinese motos have suffered from poor materials. Paint that flakes off, anodizing that fades, fasteners that rust, premature corrosion in the bearings and bushings, etc. etc. Japanese manufacturers have a fantastic pool of sub suppliers like Showa, Nissin, Yuasa, etc to build quality machines. Chinese manufactures have a pool of no-name garbage sub-suppliers, there's little hope in the near future of us getting quality components on bikes made here.

Perhaps there are enough imported components on these new bike to ensure they will last, and maybe there's even a chance that a company like Benelli is educating Qjiang in the art of sub-supplier management and evaluation, we can always hope.

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

But then again an abused Gixxer might not be as good.

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In America, the 600cc sportbike is the number one entry level moto for squids. They are usually inexperienced and irresponsible when it comes to the maintenance of the machines, and a large amount of them end up crashed or abused. In 1990 I sold a Suzuki Katana 600 to a female friend of mine, she is teaching her daughter how to ride on that same bike over 20 years later. It just rolled 100k miles and has required nothing more than general maintenance items.

I think almost any modern motorcycle has a good chance of lasting well beyond 5 years, as evidenced by the thousands of postings across the internet supporting the longevity and durability of Japanese, European, and American motorcycles. On the other hand, there are very few documented cases of Chinese motorcycles surviving a long time without constant attention and replacement of vital parts. This site is littered with opinions about "durable" Chinese bikes, but almost all these experiences are coming from people with less than 20,000 kilometers on the clock. Look at the very honest appraisal of long term ownership posted by ZMC, he likes his bike, but he calls a spade a spade and does a great job of pointing out where the manufacturer has cut corners. Does he still enjoy his bike, sure, but I respect his opinion (even if he does like Honda's) far more than the people saying the wing fung choo XYZ200 is a decent bike, because ZMC is not letting "face" get in the way of calling it like it is.

That old saying "you get what you pay for" is never true in China, and maybe should be changed to "you get what you take care of" when it comes to non-Chinese motorcycles.

Cheers!
ChinaV

i,m talking about r models

gsx r cbr zxr yzr

thats r models get it?

race one of these and see if it gets 50,000km

more like 5000 and rebuild trhe engine

sv650 is a sled and i dont see how you could even compare it to the benelli

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Originally Posted by zhu

i,m talking about r models

gsx r cbr zxr yzr

thats r models get it?

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OK, thanks for clarifying that. But I'm not sure what your "modern japanese 600,s would be pretty tired after 5 years" statement has to do with the QJ/Benelli, as it's not a race bike.

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Originally Posted by zhu

sv650 is a sled and i dont see how you could even compare it to the benelli

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I don't know why you're talking about a SV650 and calling it a sled. I'm sorry, I don't know what that means. My example was the Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, a modern Japanese 650 that seems to have no trouble making 5 years and 50k kilometers with reasonable maintenance, something many of us fear the QJ/Benelli will not do.

My comparison was made in an effort to help people understand the importance of the reputable second tier suppliers that make the components for companies like Honda and Suzuki versus Chinese companies that supply the local market with sub-standard products.

Given the six minutes it took you to read it and reply, obviously I wasn't very clear. Maybe too many words and punctuation?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Zhu, I promise you I can make a new Japanese bike last me 20 years, even longer. Some of this is ability is because of Chinese bikes. In Australia I had a 1983 Honda CB250N. That was around 1998, so the bike was over 15 years old. I had some carb issues and a few other niggles, that then I couldn't fix myself, but now would be easy even for me. In fact the CB was nothing compared to the Chinese bike I have now, which is much harder to keep maintained and is only three years old. There is no way I would be able to afford to keep a Chinese bike on the road in the UK, Australia or NZ without learning to do a whole load more work myself, because I simply wouldn't be able to afford to pay for the labor. Chinese bikes make some sense in China because the parts and labor are so cheap, but in a western country they are almost always a false economy for anyone other than a home mechanic. In some ways having a Chinese bike as well as many older bikes has taught me a great deal. I know when a bike isn't right and it needs to be taken care of, either by myself or a professional.

Also you have to remember that many western bikes in China have been badly abused and are not a true representation of the bike in another country. Some are stolen from Hong Kong and poorly reassembled, worked on by barely competent mechanics or dropped because of the drying crops, sand or other road debris or crashed into by other road users.

Back on topic, I'm sure we all want the Benelli to be a reliable bike that lasts for years, if taken care of just like a Japanese bike. I'm just waiting to find out is it's true, I might even buy one next year, but really I'd rather have a 2010 CBF500, because I know I can make that bike last for 20 years, I just can't get a legal one.

Have a Honda Transalp in my garage - 55.000 km and 25 years old......yes, she is from -87 and runs like new!!
One of my friends have ordered a Benelli 600 - he was told that the factory have order for 24, so he have to wait a while.
The bike should arrive Beijing in May.

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Perhaps there are enough imported components on these new bike to ensure they will last, and maybe there's even a chance that a company like Benelli is educating Qjiang in the art of sub-supplier management and evaluation, we can always hope.

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No hope here. I asked the saleswoman and she was proud to say: 所有的配件都是国产的，which means that all the parts are manufactured locally. No imports.

i agree the benelli is not a race bike , but it is the closest chinese engine to the high revving compact 4 pot design
so what else can you compare it to?

a sled is a bike which has good carrying capacity and i have owned a few of those myself
no offence intended

The V-Strom has a six-speed transmission with a fuel-injected and slightly retuned 645 cc engine from Suzuki's SV650 sport bike, using a two-into-one exhaust system.^[9] An upright, standard riding posture contributes to the bike's handling characteristics. "wiki"

i usually just pay attention to a new design as it comes ,not every variation of the theme
again no offence intended

as for the benelli i have no intention of buying one or any bike like it, japanese or otherwise.

i like chinese bikes and i think the amount of work required to get them to a decent standard is well offset buy the low price
i agree that if you were paying the labour in a western country it wouldnt be worth the hassle

but i am here in china and i was an aircraft mechanic for 20 years
so no trouble to keep a bike going eh

i hope anybody who does buy one of these things gets a good run out of it

zhu over and out

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...tzmfj1rgwb.jpg

+
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...-750-image.jpg
=
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...Keeway_600.jpg

Zhu, no offense taken. I think as a former aircraft engineer you might find some Japanese bikes in the same category as Rolls-Royce aircraft engines, that can actually log thousands of hours of use with no real issues. I think if you own something even humble like a Honda CBF500 you would be amazed that it would only need 2 oil changes, 2 set of tires and 2 chains over 20,000 kilometers, quite literally nothing else would go wrong, they are that good. In fact I find it criminally insane that neither Sundiro or Wuyang Honda do not manufacture this bike in China for sale domestically and for export.

Chinese bikes are sometimes cheap, and also can teach people a great deal about bike repair and maintenance, but until you have owned and ridden something really well made it's hard to appreciate.

FYI, spec sheet
Attachment 7065