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http://investor.harley-davidson.com/...cle&id=1687027
They do not disclose the sales numbers in China, its a subsidiary of HD selling in China.
But they do disclose sales in Asia….I am not sure how many they sell in China
There quarterly sales for Asia Pacific, have an other then Japan segment that would include China.
But what else is included?
the more hardlys the better I reckon. every rich assed poser on a hardly is one less audi to contend with. anyway cant judge a man by his bike and if the wealthy want to ride a full dresser, then let them have at it because that full dresser is going to look like a bag of shit after a few days on china's roadshttp://farm5.staticflickr.com/4003/4...94c5b560d7.jpg
Shaft Harley 1989 by jorvikiwi, on Flickr...here is what real 1%ers do to Harleys where I come from...lol
:rolleyes1:Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
IMO the more affluent Chinese who buy expensive bikes the better it is for all of us here. Sooner or later this increasing mass will challenge the status quo in terms of discriminatory policy. Don't care if it is HD, BMW <insert brand here> if it gets all of us that step closer to equity in the greater scheme of things. Besides which why the HD bashing? which reminds me of the tall poppy syndrome. Consider for just a moment, the historical lack of quality and availability of decent motorcycle <insert any product here> within PRC. I for one don't blame the locals nor begrudge them for wanting something better that they can afford, whether that be HD, BMW, Ducati et al., given that just a decade ago there was a lot of suppression-ist type policies in place.
Minor clarification re my 1%'r post ...
The meaning of my post was that 99% of the HD riders go to the (presumed) upscale Costa Coffee but when I am riding my HD, I still prefer rumbling over to the Starbucks, half a block away. Any further, and I might need to get the bike on a trailer. It was intended as a joke, but obviously fell flat.
:thumbsup: :lol8: Now THAT is very funny! Probably because it is so very close to the truth! Good one Andy.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinabiker
Still sitting inside a well known Beijing dealer (FHL) is a very nice, limited production, used Road King. HD made 200 special bikes (across the product line - there were about a dozen Road Kings) for only the Chinese market, and sold them at the beginning of 2012. This particular used Road King came up for sale a few months ago (about a year old). It has Inner Mongolia plates (cool number, too). It has 650 kms on it, which is what was put on the bike by a HD employee delivering the bike. It originally sold for the paltry price of 513,000 rmb, including everything (I think the base price was around 450K). It is now for sale for 265,000 rmb, and FHL is encouraging offers. The owner also bought a brand new Ducati Multistrada, and it was also put up for sale at FHL, with almost zero kms. I think it sold. And the owner also bought a brand new Hyabusa (also now for sale, with about 200 kms on it).
Some eye candy links of FHL's ads:
Harley Road King Limited Edition
Suzuki Hyabusa
BTW, sitting between my newly delivered Suzuki FW110 (great bike for the city) and my newly purchased Jialing JH150, is my 2012 HD Ultra classic (aka as the couch-glide). Nice bike, but only a run-of-the-mill Ultra, bought off a Chinese owner who had A-plated the bike. Everything, including the A-plate, was purchased for about 50% of what the original owner paid in mid-2012. It had about 1,000 kms on it, going to/from Costa Coffee, and I've since added about another 2,000 kms. Just received an offer for 10% more than I paid.
Apparently, the uber-wealthy only buy NEW ... they don't want a used bike, so depreciation is massive.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
Yup, it helps everyone. HD has actually broken a lot of new ground inside China, having several policies changed. Not sure, but I think HD was somehow behind the new 13 year time limit, and is pushing for 16. Also think HD helped with the A-plate reissuance policy change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
+2 :thumbsup:
What he said....
If the middle class in china can afford an HD then the income statistic the government publishes must understating incomes in China. Which means that those that are purchasing these likely are getting capital under the table. That could explain why they say “do not ask who we are”?
The middle class incomes, a terminology not commonly used in china, reportedly tops out at around 60k USD which does not really qualify for a 20k motorcycle, the price of a 883. Actually they could purchase one but doing so would be in many ways compromising, unless that income was of a single person, but even then its pushing limits.
You most certainly can compare incomes to purchasing power between the USA and China, there is absolutely no legitimate reason why you cannot, other then the lack of qualified data.
That same 883 offered in china cost 8k in the USA and allot more people can purchase them here and do, they can and do qualify for purchasing these.
In China these motorcycles are being sold to those earning above a middle class incomes, they are selling to those with incomes above 60k USD for sure and some of the purchasers could be well entrenched in local power networks and in that they can influence government. But do they want to see more affordable and accessible to the middle class, they actually like high prices and in that exclusive access.
These rich may drive the economy in many ways, but buying expensive imports does not do much for anyone within the domestic economy of China. Saying they create incentives for the underclass’s to aspire to is ludicrous, the upper-class is not expanding in China, its wallets are but its counts are not. The middle class is expanding but they cannot legitimately afford these, if they are in fact middle class.
There has been research done stating that purchasing in china is exceeding stated incomes, leading to the beliefs that under the table incomes exist to large degrees.
The only benefit I can see, is if they can get the tariffs lowered and registration fees reduced, then the middle can then get legitimate access, but nothing is there to motivate the upper class to instigate that, the ruling class may not even be considering that, they tax the heck out of them and the restrictions are very prevalent and that keeps the bike exclusive and in that the sales small.
What part of that did, I get wrong?
The HD cult mentality is an easy target, its Chinese faction is even an easier target. Not everyone gets jealous, if I want one I would have one easy enough. People that go overboard trying to impress others materially…tacky comes to mind, as in tactless.
You missed the point that the more people that ride motorcycles in China, the more chance there will be that it will become accepted as the true joy it can be. If it takes those in power to find the joy in riding to open things up, I am for it. We may even be allowed full access to highways, etc. in the future if enough powerful people start buying Harley Davidsons, BMW's, JH600 Jialings, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
I my personal opinion all this "Class Warfare" talk is very destructive, be it in China, USA, EU, wherever. After a while it sounds more like petty envy than a crusade for "fairness" in life. Energy spent on the fringes is a waste.
I am going to now go look for one of those "special" milkshakes!
It's not class warfare,Chip on the old shoulder or envy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasAggie
There are certain groups of motorcyclists that give motorcycling a bad name and wanbe bikers riding there HD with straight threw exhausts in packs/groups not only annoy me they annoy the general public when I ask them why they have to use a straight threw exhausts most say it gives the bike more performance A what a load of crap B IF you want performance why did you buy a Harley. The rest say it makes em look cool.
If you think that the wanbe bikers riding Harleys around are going to give a good impression to the general public well I beg to differ.Just wait until the 1%ers start moving in.
Harley-Davidson Confirms 500cc Model on the Way
Source: Gizmag (also on motorcycle.com)
Date: September 1, 2013
During its 110-year anniversary celebrations, iconic American manufacturer Harley-Davidson has dropped a couple of brand-twisting bombshells – firstly that it's building a 500cc learner bike, and secondly that an electric Harley is under serious consideration.
The Sportster, of course, is the current mid-capacity cruiser line in the Harley-Davidson range, with 1200cc and 883cc engine models. That's bigger than most sports-bikes, but not big enough to escape the ridicule of certain big-bore Harley owners (1400cc and upward) who seem to think 883cc isn't hairy-chested or noisy enough to be considered a "real bike."
And that's the market into which Harley-Davidson is planning to release a 500cc learner machine, ostensibly to replace the excellent 492cc Buell Blast which was scrapped, along with the entire innovative Buell brand, back in the depths of the global financial crisis in 2009.
Despite any flak new riders might face, the move opens up several new markets for H-D including restricted-license riders throughout Europe and Australia, and aspirational customers through India and Asia, where a cheaper, 500cc Harley would still be bigger than most things on the road.
HD's COO Matthew Levatich, speaking at the company's 110-year anniversary celebration in Milwaukee, said the as-yet-unnamed bike is "nimble, light weight, has a low seat height and supple throttle and braking. I’ve ridden it – it looks great, sounds great, it’s a Harley, and it’s priced right.
“We want to get it out as soon as we can, but it’s got to be right. New engines are complicated, and we’ve got to get everything right from a durability, reliability and confidence perspective. On the other hand, chassis and other things are a lot more straightforward.”
He also hinted that it would likely be built in India: "The American qualities of a Harley are very important to people,” said Levatich. “The literal ‘where does that shock absorber come from’ part of it is less significant, but it has to have the spirit and soul of America. We have Harley-Davidson factories in India and Brazil – can we leverage those facilities and expertise so it can get to the, for example, Indian consumer, faster?
“These are things we are becoming more open-minded to, but we understand the importance of ‘made in America’ – the American quality, spirit and integrity that matters to the customer."
And if a 500cc Harley-Davidson wasn't enough of a brand-twisting bombshell, Levatich went on to talk about the possibility of an electric Harley that ditches the combustion engine altogether.
“I am sometimes asked … whether there will be an electric Harley,” said Levatich. "People would say ‘hell no’. But why not: our engineers are quite intrigued with the idea of what an electric Harley would look like, sound like and feel like. And would it be visceral, would it be emotional, would it be luscious. And there’s a way to do that I believe, and it would be very exciting.”
Baby Harleys … electric Harleys … if Milwaukee pulls this off, it'll be a bigger shift in brand perception than when BMW shrugged off its old-man-bike reputation with the S1000RR.
"If I need to explain, you will never get it"
They will remember this sentence soon
More progressive developments within the motorcycle scene in China. Good to see.
Harley has started a Riding Academy in China. It is modeled on the highly successful Riders Edge program in other countries, which is now entering its 13th year.
Initially, the Academy will be a 2 day course. On the first day, riders will be given 125cc Suzuki GNs to learn/review basic handling techniques. On the second day, riders will move onto Harley 883 Sportsters. Price for the 2 day course will be 2,500 rmb, all inclusive.
There are plans for future course developments.
http://www.hoghd.cn/attachments/mont...XFtIRWQHaE.jpg
More detail here.
Anything that helps bring legitimacy to everyday large displacement motorcycle riding in China is indeed a good thing.
Purposefully designed for the Asian / China market, the new 500cc and 750cc Harley Street models were officially launched at the Milan show. Strange that it wasn't launched at the Chongqing show last month. Perhaps because it won't arrive in China until 2015?
http://i2.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo_auto/p...145329_640.jpg
Lots of online western media picking up the story, but here is the WFT link (click). According to the western media, a decision was made during development to also sell the bike in the USA (where it will be manufactured), despite its originally intended Asian market.
I am surprised that it is water cooled.
I am pretty sure they plan on selling the Streets globally, with a focus on India.
Were they are being manufactured.
You're right MJH - built in USA for the North American market (Canada, USA & Mexico), but built in India for the rest of the world. Very interesting. I wonder if it will only be a final assembly in India, as HD is currently doing with a few of its products sold in India. Or, alternately, if the bike will actually be manufactured in India. If the latter, that would be a HUGE step for HD.
Re water cooling. The conventional air-cooled HDs are notorious for overheating. Recently, on its air-cooled bikes, HD has implemented an engine management system where the rear cylinder is shut down at low speeds, in stop & go city traffic.
Here is the official HD advertisement, on Youku:
and Youtube links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoMtLTHNvMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5BztHvbEnk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFh-lYAtBE
Great AD, cool bike.
I am kind of impressed….
http://street.harley-davidson.com/en_US
No mini XR? :naughty:
Attachment 14514
Hew Harley 750 and 500
First truly all-new Harleys in 13 years
Source: VisorDown News
5 November 2013
This is Harley-Davidon's new Street 750, due to debut today at the EICMA motorcycle show in Milan alongside a 500 version.
Aimed primarily at emerging markets including India, they represent the first completely new motorcycle 'platform' from Harley for 13 years, with liquid-cooled engines.
The firm says they're built for urban environments, with 'nimble agility and the sound and look that lets everyone know they are genuine Harley-Davidson'.
Matt Levatich, Harley's President and Chief Operating Officer, said: “Both the Street 750 and Street 500 were designed with thousands of hours of input from young adults in cities around the world. This input guided both the attitude and capabilities of these motorcycles. They are proof that being customer-led continues to be a core driver of our product development process.”
2014 Harley-Davidson Street 750 & 500
Monday, November 04, 2013
Source: Motorcycle USA
Attachment 14515
Harley-Davidson posted this photo on its Facebook page and made the announcement of its new 2014 Street 750 and 500 motorcycles, set to hit markets the second quarter of 2014.
Harley-Davidson broke cover, via its Facebook page, on its move into the mid-displacement segment in 2014 with its new Harley-Davidson Street 750 & 500 motorcycles. Both mounts are built around a new “Revolution X” V-Twin liquid-cooled engine, 749cc and 494cc respectively. The Motor Company plans to make these new entry-level mounts available by the second quarter of 2014 in North America, Italy, Spain, Portugal and India and has plans to expand into additional markets the following year. MSRP is listed from $6700-$7500 US dollars.
Street 750 and 500 models sold in the US, Mexico and Canada will be assembled (engine and bike) at Harley-Davidson's Kansas City facility. Those sold internationally will be manufactured in India.
The Street 750 and 500 are the first new platforms for Harley-Davidson in 13 years. The chassis is “narrow and lean,” the front tire is slim and the suspension is “tuned for the roughest roads” to suit riding in urban environments. Harley-Davidson asserts that even though these mounts are smaller in stature than their cousins in the line-up, the trademark Harley engine note remains intact.
The 750 and 500 fit into Harley-Davidson’s Dark Custom line-up which has given riders the option of blacked-out (or semi-blacked-out) versions of the Iron 883, Fat Bob, Street Bob, Fourty-Eight and Seventy-Two models. According to Harley-Davidson President and Chief Operating Officer, Matt Levatich, the Dark Custom options have “helped make us the number-one selling brand to young adults in the U.S. for the past five years.”
Attachment 14516
Levatich continues, “Both the Street 750 and Street 500 were designed with thousands of hours of input from young adults in cities around the world. This input guided both the attitude and capabilities of these motorcycles. They are proof that being customer-led continues to be a core driver of our product development process.”
Harley-Davidson reached into its history books to design the new mounts, sourcing design traits from its 1946 Knuclehead and ‘80’s model FXRs. Senior Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer Mark-Hans Richer unveiled the Street 750 and 500 at EICMA and then sat down to talk about the new rides. Video of the unveiling and Richer’s comments is included below.
Here’s a spec rundown; all but the engine size is the same between the 750 and 500.
2014 Harley-Davidson Street 750 & 500
749cc liquid-cooled Revolution X engine, V-Twin 60° four-valves per head
494cc liquid-cooled Revolution X engine, V-Twin 60° four-valves per head
6 Speed Transmission
Belt Drive
2-into-1 exhaust
Mid-mount controls
Single caliper disc brakes
Two-up seat with passenger pegs
Metal tank and fenders
LED tail lights and bullet signals
Locking gas cap, forks and ignition
17 inch front wheel, 15 inch rear wheel
59.5 inch wheelbase
480 pounds (wet)