No, no, the guy's Russian, the name's Yarik. Looks like there are more laowai riding CFMoto in nanjing than I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewi Alley
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No, no, the guy's Russian, the name's Yarik. Looks like there are more laowai riding CFMoto in nanjing than I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewi Alley
I live in downtown Nanjing and no, there's no place around to get the bike up to speed. Around here 40 km/h is a suicide. In fact, I've been using my wife's Suzuki EN 150 for a week now, 'cause of construction works around my area and inability to squeeze my CFMoto between the yellow plastic buffers and the sidewalk (hell, my e-bike doesn't fit in either!!!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewi Alley
As for the dual-sport / enduro bike build around that 650cc parallel twin, I'd go all in if they made it lighter.
Had no problem with handlebar vibration whatsoever, BTW.
Thanks, I will try it and then will post the results here. The liquid cames from the hose.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFMOTO Brad
First I've heard of point penalties for a plate violation. That wasn't on my exam!!! Did your friend get stopped, or was it automated?Quote:
Originally Posted by Topmanda
Hey Everyone,
Just picked one of these 650NK's myself today! As someone pointed out before, we have them some how restricted to be sold as a Leaner Legal bike here in AUS, I assume its simply a different ECU, anyone know if this is correct and if so where to buy an unrestricted ECU as here in Australia the dealers legally will not sell them to you.
Hey there Jeff hope you enjoying the bike, I have also investigated the type of restriction on the bikes in Aus and I think its simply in the intake/exhaust and the giant converter underneath. Induct the intake and put a strait through pipe on it and I recon your gonna get the desired result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus Jeff
Yeah but if it's an ecu restriction putting a straight-thru pipe on will rob your bike of all its torque and you'll get no extra kw, turning your bike into a lemon. You need some restriction in the pipe or you'll lose torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFMOTO Brad
??? I'm sorry I have to admit that I'm not an expert of such things, Though I now that Torque comes from the cam and gear ratios and the better a motor can suck in and expel air the better it will perform. the efficient burning of the petroleum is tantamount to the performance of any engine. though I do have reservations in regards to the O2 sensors and its effect on the ECU if emisions are deregulated. The first step in getting better output from any engine in any performance shop is to optimise how an engine breaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Surely the best way to understand the difference between a stock 650NK and the retarded version being sold as a learner's bike in (a seeming nannystate known as) Australia would be to do a part-by-part comparison between the two. Is there any way to accomplish such a comparison? Are unretarded versions available in Australia, presumably for sale for experienced riders? If so, how hard would it be to put them side-by-side in a shop and compare?
I'd start with the ECU, rather than pipes and other physical parts, since this surely would be the easiest way to restrict the bike's performance. I'd bet that the two ECUs have different part numbers.
Doesn't Australian law allow you to "unmodify" your retarded bike once you pass from learner status to a standard motorcycle license? If not, why not? This would seem to be a matter of basic civil rights. If you can unmodify your 650NK by simply swapping out the retarded ECU for a stock ECU, what would stop you from doing that even while you are still a learner, other than your own conscience?
good luck
euphonius
Brad sorry for being a bit aggressive in my previous post, bike power modifications not being very useful is one of my pet subjects. Anyhow don't take my word for it, check the videos on the web about dyno testing motorcycles and you'll quickly discover that stuffing more air and fuel in and allowing a faster exit doesn't always make a bike more powerful. It can if you use a dyno, without a dyno it's a bit like cat herding.
Attachment 12487
Euphonius I believe the modification in Australia is to retard the bike down to a level which makes it similar in power to a 250, 20KW? Or to retard the bike to a 'provisional' power level maybe 50KW? At the end of these periods the bikes can be legally unrestricted.
I'd be almost 100% certain that the restriction for the LAM (learner approved) bikes when compared with the standard unrestricted bike of the same model, will have an altered ECM/ECU. Most likely it will be in the fuel loop tables within. Unrestricting the LAM bike would be a simple matter of having the ECM/ECU connected to the manufactured supplied computer module (via the dealer) or taken to some place like ECUnleashed <sp> to have the original ECM/ECU re-flashed if it is locked. A power-commander might also help in this regard. Obtaining a replacement ECM/ECU from CFMoto might be an alternative.
There might be some very specific conditions tied into the specific model certification for import that might restrict what the dealers can offer...
A manufacturer is not likely going to spend time on tooling up for manufacturing of two variations on the same engine for the same bike model, so mods to inlet/outlet valves, pipes etc are not what is needed to remove the LAM restriction perse', but the same mods when done in conjunction with the use of a DYNO etc would be useful to gain some HP out of a stock engine. Though having been down this road decades ago with a Vauxhall Chevette altered into a rally car... it is both time consuming, challenging, and drains finance's rather quickly.
An exhaust system alone will not improve much the performance, maybe 2 to 5 hp depending on the bike, adding a hi-flo air cleaner and re-tune the carb or injection should change things...drastically!Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Yep you are correct, but only you're talking about specifically tailored and tested aftermarket exhaust systems for sport bikes. For example I could easily buy a specifically tailored dyno tested Yoshimura or Akrapovic exhaust system for a CBR600R, but shoving some straight-thru muffler a China bike will not help at all most likely no extra power, much less torque. It seems to be some kind of urban myth that anything you do to any stock bike will make it more powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Topmanda
Yeah I'm sorry for jumping too ZMC. I have investigated the ECU issue too and was told by a guy that using a Power Commander V management system could very well achieve the desired result or better as it bypasses the ECU with the help of a dyno but the price of $800-$1000 AUS made it nonfeasable. Anyway my bikes in the shop having a cracked head seal replaced and its throwing up a injector sensor error so I haven't ridden for a while all under warranty of course so I'm a bit pissed off, though I have been riding hard lately. Still impressed with the bikes power even though restricted to 50kw I would still like the full 70kw or more. Euphonis you cant legally change the restriction because its stamped on the compliance plates as a LAMS not that that would stop me if I could figure it out. Anyway peace out people and ride safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Awesome Guys thanks heaps for the info!
I've been back to the shop, this is what I got told, the guy had to say it in such a way that wouldn't get him into trouble, he basically removed the rear passenger seat and pointed at what I am guessing is the ECU and said "thats the little black box that keeps you learners safe, if you didn't want to be safe you'd wanna change that, but we don't / can't sell them as all bikes are under warranty so their is no need for replacement parts to be sold on these bikes as any failures are covered by warranty"
I assume basically that this is what holds the power back, it seems to have some truth because the LAMS bikes seem to be the only ones having any issue with fuel and rough idle ect, I reckon its because the factory wouldn't have spend alot of time optimising the ECU for LAMS, once they achieved the lower power output they require I reckon all other testing / changes would have ended. This is the main reason I would like to change mine, I feel that the "full version" bike would have better tested / advanced ECU management resulting in a more reliable bike possibly.
If anyone gets a way to confirm what I suspect or knows where and how to order one of these units please let me know :)
Also I noticed next to the ECU there is a cable with 3 wires which has a plug on the end, does anyone know what this is for? or if this is not found in the "full version" ?
Read my post above (edited). What the shop guy pointed to is the ECM/ECU. The cables with plug are what the computer calibration module plugs into, to perform a range of diagnostic, various engine management & calibration functions etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus Jeff
Sounds like all you need to do is lay your hands on a stock ECU from CFMoto.
How long do you have to wait for the LAMS punishment to be lifted? Six months? A year? Or is it conditioned on your driving record? Further testing?
My potentially feeble understanding is that CFmoto was granted their import license on the condition that the bikes remain retarded forever. Does that sound disabled-ist?
Sounds downright totalitarian-ist.
Is there no way to check with the legal importers in Australia? Surely this cannot be the case -- a 650cc bike being permanently retarded to the performance of a 250cc bike. Why would you buy one?
To be politically incorrect about it, this would be simply fucking retarded!
CFMoto are not alone "detuning motorcycle HP output" when meeting certification for LAM in Australian or other markets for that matter. Perhaps the differentiator is that CFMoto may not have any alternative ECM/ECU available due to not completely understanding the market or regulatory functions etc. - while other motorcycle manufacturers maybe able to offer recalibration of restricted ECM/ECU or replacement on LAM models, CFMoto haven't made this available as they might not have understood this or have the infrastructure in place. Alternatively some jurisdictions might forbid changing the LAM certified models regardless.
Despite this having spoken with CFMoto today, I can advise that at the moment, many of the parts for the CF650TR (CF650-2) are not available, from some replacement panels, fasteners and much of anything else aside from consumables e.g. CF650 air/oil filters, spark plugs etc. My CFMoto factory contact having supplied me with the 650TR part list has asked me to contact him in a months time to get the parts I want for the 650TR (I appreciate that we're discussing the NK model here)... just that I like to keep many spares for my CFMoto models in my garage for "those just in case" moments, and the 650TR is no exception in that endeavour.
I'll try to check with CFMoto next call, on availability on ECM/ECU replacement and if there are specific market related considerations e.g. fueling centric requirements etc., and also if replacing a ECM/ECU is as simple as plug and play. Can't promise if I'll be able to get an easy answer though...
I've changed the hose and the fluid loss not stop. Apparently the liquid comes from there (see the picture). How can I solve this?Attachment 12512
Hi GRB
The only thing i can think of is you need to take it apart clean up all the bits and re-seal thats my 2 cents worth
or
Attachment 12514
So I was at the shop today and had a good ol chat with the mechanic and he said that the retardation is indeed inside the ECU and like everyone has said best thing to do would be to get a standard 1 from CFMOTO, so then I mentioned a bypass using the PowerComander V fuel management system that is mapped for the 650Ninja/ER6 and he felt confident that it would work considering the engines are for the best part identical. Then he took me to the back of the shop and showed me the NK he had just fitted an WhiteBros full performance exhaust system that bypassed the converter and after a little OOHHing and AAHHring convinced him to start her up and give it a pock.... DAMN! did the girl sound sweet, no dyno no tuning nessisary just bolted on... Cant say about the performance though cause no amount of flattery was gonna get the man to hand me the keys. So I'm putting my pennies away :clap::clap::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
Yeah Brother I don't know how handy with a spanner you are but that cover has got to come of and that seel fixed, remember to order a new Waterpump housing seal before ya do cause I don't recon anything else is gonna do it. You could use formaseel like I said but if your gonna take it off may as well do it proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by grb
Thanks CFMOTO Brad and prince666. I take my bike to the mechanic (a friendo of my) and he promise me to fix the loss. Later I will post here the results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grb
I think that will be best good luck
I may have missed this in the thread, but is there any reason you are not taking the bike back to the dealership where you bought the bike and have this repaired under warranty? As others have pointed out, you're likely going to need to deal with that cover, firstly to make sure that all the bolts and fasteners are tight - and I'd say torqued to spec, but given that CFMoto probably don't have any toque specs you'd have to go with those from Kawasaki ER-6N I guess. If all the bolts are tight, then get the cover off and check/replace the gasket would be the next option. Again though, I'd be getting the bike back into the dealer to handle - under warranty.Quote:
Originally Posted by grb
As for the gasket, I'm not sure you or your dealer will be able to get a replacement, since I was talking with a contact at CFMoto factory in Hangzhou (China) about ordering all kinds of items for my 650TR (CF650-2), from replacement panels, bolts, fasteners and other items. Nothing for the 650TR is available at the moment other than consumables e.g. spark plugs, filters etc.
That doesn't mean that parts aren't available for the 650NK (CF650-1).
Good luck, hope you can get the leak sorted.
Installed sliders. Bought from taobao, bolt onto the metal plates, seem to be fine.
Hope to never have to use them.
Attachment 12542
Steve, the sliders look like they'll handle any unfortunate tip over but fingers crossed you won't have any need to try them out. I've seen many of the sliders advertised on Taobao. Wondering if you might have looked at getting yourself a bike stand since there's no centre stand which on the 650NK suits the naked bike design IMO, whereas the omission on the 650TR is a real fumble of the ball IMO. I been looking myself, and found the mounting hardware for a bike stand specific to the 650TR, but am currently looking for a stand that is known to fit the 650TR (CF650-2). So far all the Taobao sellers I've contacted selling bike stands have no idea whether stands they sell (or what stand) will fit.
Still looking...
http://www.bikelift.net