Had an accident

you don't know what you will do until it happens Felix, under stress people behave quite strangely, I have seen grown men I respected for strength cry and wimpy (i thought) teacher types stand up and take on armed men. Thats why debates like this are good. They tend to polarise issues and bring out the emotions so you can address them and clarify things. Indeed, sometimes I find after I have written something, just written it down, it has altered or moderated my own posiiton. Then under stress I behave more calmly because any underlying emotion is already resolved.

I don't ever mind being called out publicly for my statements, I rave on publicly after all. And I am capable of defending my points, they aren't just egotistic spew (to me!). Sometimes it takes a few posts to and for to make me realise something, I don't think i am perfect. Just close.

Changing a few thousand year old culture of so many billion people who don't even talk proper and don't know the craic, well good luck. might take an eon. Easier to let it change you, THAT is my point. You won't turn into a fukkin penguin, you will still be Felix the great and humerous larrikin, just that you will be so much more comfortable and respected. That's how change happens. The stereotypes behave differently and perceptions are altered. Now I have to go and play with my antenna on the roof, and also find out once and for all after 60 yrs whether there is an apostrophe in there's or not.

Felix, I have to agree with you. If someone is OK just leave or get screwed. Why wait for a scratch in someones car that would probably be taken out with T-cut suddenly become a 1000, 2000RMB paint job when their driving caused it?

For Slabo's kind of accident I am still wondering wouldn't it be better to practically force 1000RMB on her and run? Seems callous, but then again being forced to pay 40,000RMB for a broken arm is too.

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Originally Posted by jape

Too much bullshit western arrogance knocking the Chinese is what comes over on here, too often.

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Live here for two years then try and say that.

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Originally Posted by jape

Ex-pat club of cynical westerners who know best and everything they see is wrong, stupid, TIC.

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Because in many cases we do know what’s best (well maybe not best, but at least what’s fair). Please get off your high horse.

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Originally Posted by jape

Then return and appreciate the place called China even if it isn't a suburb of some western town or stay home.

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Again, do you live here like many of us? No. All you do is read Lao Tzu books in your study while claiming that the rest of us have lost touch with reality. The truth is, you have never experienced the Chinese reality.

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Originally Posted by jape

I recognised many many years ago that the Ugly American and the Arrogant Pom were causing a lot of trouble around the world. when I was your age we were jointly napalming half of Asia and setting up Heroin factories to fund it. And in Eire and Northern Ireland where I have spent a LOT of time, UK was never flavour of the month. Your generation is changing that a lot but unconsciously the attitude is still overt to any one sensitive to it. My generation just went in and shot any fucker argued with us or wnated not be enslaved, economically if not literally, aye, in Ireland as well. I just do what I can to pass on my experience, my philosophy and understanding. I don't call it wisdom, that's not for me to say.

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Why are you even referencing this??? This discussion began over a dispute over who was legally accountable for a motorcycle accident!!!!! Jesus. Please stay on topic.

A while ago, I was riding my bicycle, stopped at a traffic light, when a scooter came up behind me - crashed into me - and knocked me down, which caused me to fall over another stopped bicyclist. Never saw him coming, of course.

The young macho scooter guy, with his babe on the back, snarled a few swear words at me in Chinese ... then I stood up with an somewhat angry look on my face, and several inches and kgs on him, and he tried to zoom off, causing his babe to flip off the back.

Naturally, the "judicial crowd" immediately appeared.

One Chinese onlooker with foresight told me to get away, quickly, because I am a foreigner. The penny dropped, and I was gone. No guilt on my part, as the scooter guy was a dork who obviously caused the entire crash, and then caused his babe to slip off when he tried to zoom away.

Yeah, I probably would've been extorted.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

The young macho scooter guy, with his babe on the back, snarled a few swear words at me in Chinese ... then I stood up with an somewhat angry look on my face, and several inches and kgs on him, and he tried to zoom off, causing his babe to flip off the back.

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You didn't at least throw a few Chinese swear words back at him?

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

A while ago, I was riding my bicycle, stopped at a traffic light, when a scooter came up behind me - crashed into me - and knocked me down, which caused me to fall over another stopped bicyclist.

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Yes, you would have been extorted. Good for you for getting out of there asap. I think the trouble that idiot got into from his girlfriend was probably fair recompense for this guy being a dork in the first place. Far as I'm concerned if there's no blood loss or broken bones it's best to just forget about it. I also know that's what most of my Chinese friends would do as well.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

One Chinese onlooker with foresight told me to get away, quickly, because I am a foreigner. The penny dropped, and I was gone. No guilt on my part, as the scooter guy was a dork who obviously caused the entire crash, and then caused his babe to slip off when he tried to zoom away.

Yeah, I probably would've been extorted.

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More importantly, Lao Jia Huo, you kept your cool. With the judicial crowd assembling, had you taken Barry's advice and started cursing or, worse yet, laying a hand on the guy, you'd have guaranteed an extremely hostile situation, and an exponential compounding of your own problems in a situation where your only crime was your presence.

Keep your calm always. Show concern and even contrition, as galling as it might feel at the time. Then make your getaway unless you yourself are unable to do so due to injury. And in that case, callous as it sounds, start making pictures and/or video. Thank god for smart phones.

Anger and aggression by foreigners are NEVER rewarded nor respected in China.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Anger and aggression by foreigners are NEVER rewarded nor respected in China.

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Rule of thumb, whoever throws the first punch, it's their fault. That applies to Chinese as well. Especially if you were in the south, remember that if they want to start a fight, it will be 4 against 1. That's how they do it here.

4 on 1 would be a nice change; A few of my friends (both Chinese and foreign) have been in situations where it's about 10 or 15 Chinese guys on them.

Lao Jia Hou. I'm glad that you left that situation fairly unscathed. I for one have learned something from you post about what to do in that kind of situation. That scooter guy was quick to curse you while you were on the ground but as soon as he saw your size and expression he just knew he wasn't ready for a one on one. Tried to run away so fast he forgot to take care of his own lady on the back. I'm not saying that all Chinese are that way but I've yet to hear about one that doesn't run away to get their gang on you at the first sign of trouble.

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Originally Posted by slabo

Rule of thumb, whoever throws the first punch, it's their fault. That applies to Chinese as well. Especially if you were in the south, remember that if they want to start a fight, it will be 4 against 1. That's how they do it here.

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If you are talking fault from a liability standpoint, sorry, from experience, have to disagree. Last year I got jumped by a Shandong guy. He threw first punch, it was documented by videocams. I beat him down and he kept getting up to attack me. When he couldn't beat me, he punched my 40kg gf twice. The rule with fights is they take damages from both parties, split by half, and both parties pay damages. I came out with a few cuts, he got 16 stitches. I wound up paying 10k to him for something he started and was clearly self defense for me.

You are right about the multiple attacker scenario though. The guy hired 4 anhui guys to jump me - outside the police station.

But back on topic, aggression from foreigners is seen by locals as an attack towards everyone. I think there is a lot of deep resentment towards foreigners (especially whites) that are vocalized in an instance where it seems the foreigner has done some wrong or "chi-fu" a local, that resentment comes out. They would never say it to your face though. Maybe it's the past history of colonialism/occupation in China. (BTW, have you asked some of the locals how they feel about the earthquake/tsunami in Japan? Some have actually openly expressed happiness).

Anyways, bottom line, we always need to watch ourselves. No need to piss the locals off as the police have the right to revoke visas. Locals, especially the little punks with the funny hair cuts and riding the loud scooters, can easily disappear into another province if they wanted to. Sorry Slabo, I think I strayed from the subject of this thread...