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Woa, that is a serious safety issue... I'd be swaping the whole wheel to a mag wheel to be done with it. The other option would to be swapping all the OEM spokes to something aftermarket and imported or made by a foreign company. Notwithstanding that affected bike owners should be reporting the issue to the dealer concerned or Shineray - maybe even both.
A failure of spokes could lead to a catastrophic outcome!
yep x2 spokes also break like this. Shineray needs to deal with whoever makes their spokes. As was mentioned it is a real pain on a trip, even if you have spares having to remove the wheel the tyre and the nearby spokes to replace the broken ones. It seems to me the angle of the bend is not correct and the head of the spoke is not sitting happily in the hole.
Have informed the Shineray quality guy already. Lets see how they react..
here the detailed order dimensions of the spokes for a rear X5 wheel.
both sides left and right use the same type and length.
I hope it makes your ordering easier.
Attachment 13746
shuben, you have precision.. I'm guessing German or Japanese ancestors? :thumbup:
Yep ... German with German ancestors, engineering background & technical affinity.
HOW DO YOU KNOW??
because with my mixed English/German/Dutchman ancestry, I want to do what you did.. but the best I can do is Attachment 13747
The spoke is about this big...
looks like 3.574639822 inch long :lol8:
... but you don't drink your beer from wooden mug anymore, do you? :goodtime:
This spoke failure is really putting me off buying an X5, I am ok with the DIY aspect of owning a Chinese bike but I am not ok with serious safety issues.
given that the hub, sprockets and swingarm seem to be copied from ktm . Ktm parts system is probably a good place to start.
have ordered already a new set of stainless steel spokes from Germany.
This should eliminate the safety issue.
With China bikes it is simply same as all other things in China.
"What costs nothing is nothing" & "What cost a little is only a limited Quality"
next it will be rims, then hubs, bearings, swingarm, frame, electrical harness, indicators, lights, brackets, chain, pistons, rings both oil and compression... hahaha soon only the sticker or decal will be OEM, even that will likely peel off...
LoL
:lol8:
:scooter:
:popcorn:
Shuben,
What did Shineray say about your wheel failure ?
I was getting quite excited about buying an x5 as it ticks all the boxes for me. It seems to be the only bike available in China that is I would like but after reading about this type of failure ............................................
It seems to me now that the only option for me is to buy BMW F650 GS and that is so much more that I wanted to spend.
Stop whining you bunch of first worlders, just put better spokes on the rear wheel when you buy it, I'm definitely getting this bike
I've had my fare share of China moto spoke issues and it seems to me the problem has more to do with poor lacing and tensioning of the spokes than the quality of the materials. I started busting rear spokes on every ride with my TGR last year and fixed it by loosening all the spokes and re-tensioning them. Knock on wood, haven't broken another one since and I've pounded the wheels pretty bad on plenty of rocks.
Cheers!
I am definately not getting one of these, my pleasure time is limited and I want to enjoy not spend my time fixing things that a shoddy Chinese factory cannot make correctly. There is no excuse for these things happening on a 7000 kms bike and it makes me think what will be left after 20 000kms. I maybe a first worlder but I am certainly not whiining, There will be a decent bike in my garage before xmas, so ieither a Suzuki, Honda, Kawa, yamaha, Ktm or Beemer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentza
I hope that you document you adventures with your X5 so we can all have a laugh. I hope you enjoy !
:D Seem to have hit a nerve there, given a choice I would buy an expensive brand, or if there was a second hand bike market here that consisted of nice legal big bikes, then I'd get one (all the bikes over 250cc so far are illegal smuggled or stolen ones in terrible condition), I really enjoy working on bikes and it's part of the whole experience for me.. I simply can't just buy a bike and then ride it as is, I love to tinker, change and improve, these bikes look like the perfect mix of "not as shit as most China brands" and "not as good as most foreign brands" leaving plenty of room for tinkering and improvement whilst being able to be legally registered here and having the parts available through the local factory... try sourcing that foreign abs computer doohicky whilst stuck in a tiny rural town... may as well push the bike home :D I shall chronicle the mishaps and adventures of my X5 when I get itQuote:
Originally Posted by Symon260z
Im with you serpentza, For me the relatively simple mechanical aspect of motorcycling was one of the big draws for me and I don't really think this is a hugely complex issue especially if you know about it in advance. I don't know how to true a wheel so this will give me a chance to learn too. I'm probably still going to get this bike.
I can see both sides or points of view... but, one of the PITA is that most local manufacturers don't seemingly give a rats arse. But local consumers understand and therefore might respond too... (emphasis on "MIGHT", cause as most of us can likely attest too, PRC seems pretty much a logic free zone) by exercising their right and stop buying from a substandard supplier of a product. If we as educated first world consumers continue to buy despite an awareness of the failures and short comings, and some here are even willing to factor into a buying decision to allow for upgrades, replacement of items... then we're encouraging poor QA to prevail... who's the fool then...
Is it any wonder therefore that most locals preference is for foreign/imported brands and products? Nope. It would also explain why it seems more people bought the BJ600 over the 650NK, foreign JV brand over a domestic one. Yesterday I was talking with a motorcycle dealer up in SH, and mentioned I'm probably going to sell some bikes as I need to make room for a bike on order... yes, foreign brand over 100000, legal etc. (via another dealer bricks and mortar shop).
When he, the dealer I was speaking to, asked, I replied, I'd sell Yamaha Dragstar 1100, Suzuki Burgman 650 and CFMoto 650TR... the dealer said ...simply 'only interested in first two, not interested in ANY Chinese bikes no matter what' even if my 650TR was brand spanking new with 0000km on the dial... and had gold arm pits - not interested.
Bikerdoc,
Thanks for some common sense !
For me the X5 is a fun tool and tinker toy. I love to calm down after work by doing some maintenance, upgrade and repair. When I bought the bike it was clear for me that it would go that direction. With technical sense and the will to stay on top of maintenance it is an acceptable bike.
... and we have this forum to share our experiences, knowledge and lessons learned. So we know what is ongoing with the X5 and can arrange accordingly. Even I am going soon to buy an legal import bike I will keep my X5 and ride it because it is fun for me.
I want improve it and care it ..... imagine a bike that's running for the next 50k km and just sometimes a oil change. Then I NEED a bike like this to wrench
So I am following this mindset, but of course also understand anybody who needs the bike daily, very reliable and maybe has no space to do maintenance.
I think reading this forum/posts and use the improvements advice can get you a good bike also for long distances.
I follow this thread with an little amused smile in my face.
I have the feeling, this bike, and the other one talked about a lot this days (CF Moto), are the CJ's of "modern" times. With the CJ we never came home without broken Spokes, each time out on the roads, min 1 hour repair time. The Spare Part list for a long distance Ride was longer than our personal list for clothes or what ever.
If you like this kind of pleasures, buy chinese.
If you like riding, enjoy the landscape, without enjoying trouble, buy no chinese bikes.
I am very, very happy with our decision to buy the BMW G650GS for me, legal. Jump on and go! This bike is some kind of "older technology for BMW". Less, close to none computer technology.
An analogy if I may...Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
Each day stuck in traffic in my car here in Shenzhen... I look at how the people in front of me are all trying desperately to squeeze into the same space, not allowing anyone in, blatantly blocking and taking any gap they can... I think to myself, if these buggers just learned how to merge and actually let the person in front of them into their lane, then we'd all be home already... then I try let someone in infront of me... and then the whole of Shenzhen's traffic squeezes into that gap I made for that one guy... and then I realise that rational thinking simply does not apply here. If I don't buy their product "in order to make them care about Quality Control"... then they'll sell it to someone else and I'll have to sit and swivel till the end of time :P
So the idea of buying a bike that has a great engine, frame, reasonable looks and potential for constantly being improved and enjoyed.. then I'll jump at the chance... Basically all of my bikes and cars my entire life have been rubbish, old, second hand, abused etc... but I've loved them all and also learnt to overcome just about every problem that can be thrown at me (mechanically... don't talk to me about women, that I'll never master).
When you're in China, a Chinese bike makes sense! However I understand people who don't want trouble since they either don't have patience or the skill to deal with niggles and problems, whatever floats your boats ;)
Anyway I'm in the process of selling most of my bikes to afford the X5 (I have the cash.. but I try to keep my "Bike" money separate from my other finances... also the wife can't touch that ;) )
For those of you interested I have a CB400 and a very familiar QM250GY up for grabs
:D
They need to address that….and they surely are and or will. Problem with going too far too fast is that you have to keep going back to revisit what you missed.
In manufacturing they should stop production when they find a defect, then investigate it fix it and start up again.
Preventing mistakes cost money but not as much as correcting them in process. Loss of face is averted through due diligence, covering every detail and then having the process in place when details are missed.
In many countries they use recalls some are forced and some are voluntary. But seeing these recalls in place means the safety processes are in place. Defects not being addressed is disheartening, not having the processes in place is tantamount to a disregard for life.
They have to make it better and in that the prices go up…it’s a catch twenty two for them.
The customer says they want low costs…low costs are lower quality.
They emulate the free market that is at a international standard, in that we see price gouging. They want to be able to do that to, see it all coming? They are not interested in offering the best for the least, they will sell the worst for as much as the best but only if you let them.
No control in place, process control is key. Its not only quantitative it is qualitative. But to attain the control you have to split the trails into each line and track it all in every detail all soldiers marching in rows. In less common terms it is streams of data and coded and tiered, it follows the real processes and is regulated with procedures. However it is also capital and each event has value in measurable currency, so it is also accounting.
Isn’t this broken spokes event a warranty claim? That is how the trail leads back to the initial process in manufacturing, in a legitimate system. They pay to fix it, then pay again if it breaks again, they also pay if you are injured by the lack of process control that results in being unsafe. If you do not serve them notice are you circumventing the process, letting them off on the liability?
Let's not forget, folks, TIC.
Hands down, a Chinese bike is going to be a WAY more intelligent decision inside China, regardless of reliability or build quality.
Yeah, the X5 is not the equivalent of a BMW F800/R1200, etc., or a Ducatti MTS, or a KTM orange-thingie, or whatever ... but I'd sure as hell prefer to have an X5 out in backwater noodle-ville when something goes wrong (and it will, regardless of which brand you own, domestic or foreign).
One of my favourite ADV stories comes from Fahni, whose JH150's top end disintegrated out in the middle of nowhere - and the local mechanic at the next tiny village HAD all of the necessary replacement parts sitting in a long-forgotten box. The mechanic rebuilt the top end while Fahni had lunch, and the total cost, including parts, was around 200 rmb. Another JH150 owner's story had an engine disintegrate in another noodle-ville, and the rider had no problem getting a replacement engine installed.
An X5's initial purchase price is also a tiny fraction of an imported bike.
AFTER the big overseas companies have established an extensive service facility network throughout China, one MIGHT intelligently consider an import (if prices come down). But until that happens, it is domestic for me (except for one large city bike I use for Starbucks trips in my pirate costume).
Think about this - what is probably one of the top 3 complaints about Chinese bikes in foreign lands? Unavailable parts & servicing - there isn't an established sales/service network. People overseas would happily buy the much-lower-priced Chinese bikes if, in every town, there was a shop that could get them going again.
How many BMW dealers are there in China? Ducatti? HD? Victory? KTM? etc. Do you really want to be in SW China with a blown clutch on an F800?
It is a no-brainer, IMHO, about the domestic/import decision while living inside China. Imported bikes = status ... a very Chinese thing ... however, When in Rome ...
Finally, apples & oranges to compare the X5 with imports. Domestics only, to be fair. Not much around 400cc. Move up a bit, and I heartily recommend the JH600 (still only around 32K, new, which is a bargain). Move down a bit, and the choices become wider - that soon-to-be-released Zongshen RX3 looks very interesting.
Yeah, the X5 has problems - but I'd buy it before an F800GS (how much are those things now? >200K?). Alas, my JH suits my needs perfectly, inside China.
I like the style of the X5, 400CC is perfect for me but I don't enjoy the reliability issues. I really enjoy working on bikes and cars,
I started getting my hand dirty on bikes when I was about 10. My dad was a Yamaha and Honda dealer in the UK, I used go down to the workshop Saturdays and holidays to help out. After i while they kept the smaller new bikes for me to build up prior to delivery to the customers. The mechanics just checked my work to make sure all was ok. Later I had my own Yamahas, I built them up and did all maintenance. No repairs as such, just the things I broke from using the bikes off road.
Later I got into cars, I raced single seaters, endurance and rally. I did all the work with the help of a couple of mates,. I had a ball !.
Later I got into Japanese classic cars, Great cars and so, so reliable ! Here are photos of one of the cars that i rebuild totally https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Wc&usp=sharing
I feel I am skilled enough to do any work on a modern motorbike but I refuse to pay money and then have to rebuild and reengineer a badly made bike so that I can actually use tit as intended. I know it is so cheap and easy tp get a Chinese motorbike fixed in China, but if you buy a bike that doesn't break down and can take the abuse ...............................
I have been doing my homework and I think that I'll be getting a 2013 Honda CFR250. It seems to be just right for me and the price is not along way short of a Beemer. I'll buy after the holidays.
Sweet!! -- Been out of the loop for a while and totally missed these!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
Thanks Shuben - Bu the way, did you ever have any Gas tank Expansion issues? I just dropped off my bike for the 2500 Checkout at Knight Rider shop and there were 3 warranty issues I had them take a look at -Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuBen
1) The Kick stand chain - seems the little metal peg that it attaches to came off hile I was out riding on Chong Ming somewhere - and the spring went with it...they said they will weld on a new one of course and replace.
2) Underside Chain Guard Plastic - Just GONE - no idea where or when, but somehow it came off completely - they offered to cover this under the warranty which was really nice. They could have easily looked at me and said it was due to my off-road driving habits... :mwink:
3) Gas Tank Expansion - One side of the gas tank (where your thigh rides) has started expanding out about 1 inch - only on the right side. I showed it to the guys at the shop and they hemmed and ha'd about it and said it may be related to the heat last month in Shanghai. End result, they are swapping it out for a new tank for me as soon as they can get one from the factory.
Final analysis - While I'm going through the obvious issues and warranty stuff, I can say the bike is meeting my expectations for small faults given the manufacture, but the warranty and support so far from the Knight rider dealer is really spot on. You show them the issues, they discuss it, and then it gets taken care of. What I can say is that I have had a lot more luck working with their team since I started writing and preparing my own work orders (task lists) in advance for them. Then I just walk them through it, agree on a target finish (write it on the work order and they make a copy that I sign. Hopefully, they will pick up on this after a few more times and maybe start applying this approach to their other work / jobs.
Nice Job Shuben - I also added one of these but I put it right on the handle bar bracket - hardly visible at all. I'll have to go back and take a picture to compare, but really like how you positioned that! Was also thinking to wire another one (but a uni socket instead) under the seat so I could use it for a heated vest / jacket come winter -- so the cable wouldn't cross my steering area.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuBen
Gboy - I agree completely with the above. The bike is solid after you address the documented weaknesses - that is why we keep pumping info into this forum. Learn from our breakages and bruises and it should do well for you. For the Clutch problem, am actually trying to think of a way to solve this one now. Seems to be related to the cheap steel used on China bikes in general. That is why the chains stretch so easily, and I think that is why the clutch plate expands and starts sticking when it gets hot - was definitely more noticeable last month when I was riding HARD in 42-44 C heat against a 900cc Benelli, but now that things have cooled down, I hardly notice it until I've been riding for more than 2 hrs straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuBen
PS - Saw your PM earlier, and will try to write back. Been really busy lately and just haven't had time to keep up with the FUN stuff as much. Am now on Vac but will be back in Shanghai in a few weeks.