That was my point. The Eskimo snow thing is a fallacy just as the idea that there is no word for "logic" in Chinese is as well.
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That was my point. The Eskimo snow thing is a fallacy just as the idea that there is no word for "logic" in Chinese is as well.
you guys say fallacy way too much
A humanist might see the Chinese law as logic driven, which by the way is faulted because people do need to express themselves creatively and strict laws result in people ignoring those laws and the system that enforce them.
A humanist may also see the need to fit in and in china that pretty much is impossible if you are not Chinese, where as the humanist thrives on diversity.
I believe that some past dynasty banned logic and replaced it with law as in all plebeians are idiots and should do what they are told to do and that actually would be logic driven.
The whole issue falls to pieces applying logic to human desires, they mandate based on needs and in that you may need a motorcycle but the desire to modify it is not respected, to them unnecessary and not logical.
Yes, correct "逻辑" is a direct translation of the word logic. Yesterday I spent some time canvassing the views and opinions of a number of Ch!nese colleagues about a dozen or more (12-15). This is not to say that these are standard office bound Ch!nese, all are professionals, have a minimum of a undergraduate degree with quite a few postgrad level and then some at doctorate. One was at post-doctorate level. No, I don't work in a university or school, but we (my employer) does have an affiliation to a university or two, disciplines within academia. I acknowledge that my survey was anything but of robust design. I wasn't concerned about research design, methodology, epidemiology, statistical analysis/design or such like.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteZ
The simple question I asked was "can you (the participant) tell me what this 逻辑 means ?" and showed them the characters on my smart-phone. All could tell me it was the word for logic (some with help to translate and some not). Nearly all said they had learnt it in school, usually high school, that it was tied into mathematics and or computing. Around half the participants could tell me that at high school they had learnt that it was "something" to do with the brain - but not any clear definition was learnt at the time. All could say that they learnt more about "逻辑" at university, but not in any great detail. Only two could actually explain what it meant to them in clear definable terms that was in keeping to an acceptable definition as related to a methodology of thinking and not as a mathematical/computational form. The participants that could not articulate or explain the "mode of thinking" definition of "逻辑" were generally in their thirties or older, had no higher than a bachelors degree, and/or had not studied abroad.
Of two individuals I work with on a daily basis, both could tell me that they recognised the characters "逻辑". One could not translate it, but could tell me she had learnt the characters at high school, but not the meaning. She only learnt that aspect at Uni (Chinese), but still could not clearly explain the meaning. The other staffer could recognise the characters "逻辑", she could also translate them into English, and made a valiant attempt at providing two definitions. She has a post-grad cert, and studied in the UK for four years post her undergraduate degree in China.
So can one infer much from my poorly designed bit of ad-hoc research? Not really, but I can and will say that after 11 years in Ch!na, having worked in both foreign and Ch!nese institutions (not educational) though in and with other licensed professionals, I'd safely hazard a guess that the majority of locals here in Ch!na, do not know "逻辑" in the full sense. IMO reflects back to the fundamentals of the educations system. Rote learning (memorisation techniques/strategies). Moreover there is often ample evidence of the lack of understanding and use of "逻辑" in daily life in Ch!na. Plenty of pragmatism though!
IMO for anyone wishing to comment on the subject (逻辑), I feel one should do only so if they have lived in Ch!na for significant period of time (what ever that can be defined as!), and can reliably relate first hand experience of life in CH!NA.
Ch!nese philosophy, IMO today's modern Ch!na is about as egocentric and capitalist as one can get - at least in my decade plus of experience in Ch!na, having experienced it from many angles. Perhaps there was a philosophical whimsical view of philosophy in Ch!nese history... today, not so much... perhaps with the exception of a measured few (relative speaking measured in hundreds of millions perhaps) along with many a young Ch!nese subscribing to a more hedonistic view, rather than altruistic view - IMO! The govt lead pr0p0ganda machines are still hard at work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
The way I see it, Chinese pragmatism and the lack of logical thinking is as much a product of its status as a developing country with a huge population and limited opportunities than anything else, least of all a lack of vocabulary. Shift your gaze a little to the south and you'll find India suffers from many of the same problems as Mainland China including the lack of logical thinking being applied to everyday life.
Capitalism is a economic system not a philosophy, what does this translate into 名家
I like tea.....The Chinese tea ceremony include the harmony of nature and self cultivation, and enjoying tea in a formal or informal setting. When tea is more than a drink and the tea ceremony is understood and practiced to foster harmony in humanity, promote harmony with nature, discipline the mind, quiet the heart, and attain the purity of enlightenment, the art of tea becomes teaism.
Hardly logical....they have my warm and fuzzy with teaism.
Seriously are we confusing logic with common sense, logic is a modular process and if your into that too much could start calling you Sheldon.
MJH, you lived in Ch!na by any chance?
Agreed, capitalism is indeed tied to a monetary system, tied to the ownership policy on goods & capital. However MJH, I've no idea if you've had the benefit of having lived in mainland Ch!na as I have for more than a decade, but I'd suspect that if you had you might be inclined to share a similar view that Capitalism has leached and permiated it's way into deep Ch!nese psyche and replaced any alturistic philosophical view that Ch!nese once held in the form of Confucianism. Read between my lines...
Additionally common sense and or logic, seems to ME little of it demonstrated to any depth on a regular &/or wide basis inside mainland Ch!na by the local populace educated or otherwise, IMO. Come take a look where I'm employed for a first hand view!
Oh I am sure actually living in china affect your perception of china, but it does not change its history that is pretty well documented. They began integrating western ideas way before you arrived there, they are capitalist and communist, scary thought if you ask me.
My definition of Logic changed when I took a college logic class, which I dropped after a week as I could not stand it.
This reminds of a joke I heard about Russia and China. The Russians today are communists pretending to be capitalists, while the Chinese are capitalists pretending to be communists.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
There is very little communism or socialism being practiced in China today.
Thought as much...Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
double post
Mr. doc, if you were showing the "logic" to me, I would be confused. I have my education in China till high school, then went to UK for undergraduate study. All China high school study marxism and mao's philosophy and Deng's. My high school classmate went on that in college, as compulsory subject. I'm not entirly sure if post graduate has to study that too.
I believe you guys didn't have to read textbook Zhengzhi. Neither now new generation parents have saying to object that "philosophy", if ever new parents question the textbook.
td_ref, I'd be guessing you would not be alone and that many local mainland Ch!nese would have no idea about the characters "逻辑" as has been the case with the Ch!nese colleagues/friends I have asked. It seems an elusive concept IMO here inside Ch!na. Reflects back on education both formal and informal. Though in all fairness, the central government is well aware of the failings and short comings of the education system and is wanting to change it, a long with quite a few other aspects without loosing the integral and cultural aspects of what it means to be mainland Ch!nese. These things have to be carefully managed and massaged into place, and will take time. The part about the theories of Marx, Mao, et al. were likely not so much dissected and critically analysed, but just memorised verbatim. I'd assume that td_ref, you'd have simply had to memorise all of the content of say the Mao-!st little red book, carry it with you at all times, and be able to quote from it, if asked?Quote:
Originally Posted by td_ref
From my experience assisting Asian students (when I was at Uni doing my first undergrad studies two decades ago overseas), many Asians' really excelled at the hard sciences, where memorising facts, numbers and performing computational tasks were the key to the topic and therefore being able to use and rely on their often keen memorisation/rote learning techniques. Those that were studying soft or social sciences had a much harder struggle with their subjects where interpretation, reflection and critical analysis were more often required.
and td_ref, I absolutely luv "Top Gear"... bloody brilliant... same like the UK version of "The Office"... while the American version of the latter, not so much.
the TG Specials are very-very good and entertaining, the regular TG program needs a bit of an overhaul, It was a little shocking how fat Clarkson, and to a lesser degree James May have got in the last season (first season of 2013). Clarkson's big gut, made me think of on of those wildlife TV documentaries where you see a snake digesting a whole antelope.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
No, I didn't carry red book (in late 1990s). In school it is national curriculum, I had to pass the exam. The textbook size was like other ones. The school doesn't teach other way of thinking things, I think the whole point is only allow student what to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
A lack of critical thinking and in part a product of the language as a structure.
Not unique to Chinese culture, a good student can earn very high mark memorizing. Some of them have critical thinking skills some do not.
Path and way as a philosophy seems logical to me. 道教
典型的參數有一個內部結構，其特徵在於，包括以下
假設或經營場址的一組
推理或演繹的方法和
一個結論或點
I stayed at a holiday inn last night
哲学逻辑论证理论
https://www.google.com/search?q=%E5%...hrome&ie=UTF-8
This translate reasonably well...
Introduction
Describe temporal and spatial information between the class and the class effectively unchanged for a long time has change in the relationship between the rule is called a logical natural logic and artificial logic can be divided into two major categories of artificial logic is divided into mechanical logic, symbolic logic also can be divided into several categories can not explain the nature of the universe as the basic logic (logic) and composite logic categories
Logic (English: logic) root of the word is from the Greek logos (Greek: λόγος), the original meaning of the words, ideas, concepts, arguments, reasoning meaning. After translated (French: logique), and the final development of logic (English: logic) in English.
When the 1902 Yan Fu Muller Logic ", a paraphrase of" Logic ", but this is the intention of the" name "substandard famous or Norm in the name of science. And the system of Chinese using the Chinese character for "ethical" paraphrase "On Science". Sunwen its text "statecraft · essay as evidence" paraphrase "truth is,
What, then logic study what? When translated to any name and then properly? Of this Cover For some questionable also. Where little studied under almost logical, Mo, I wonder if this is the rules of the various learning everything go, for the thinking and behavior of the avenue also. Road by human without knowing all the men, while China has yet to have its name. I thought when translated as "reasonable then also. Hargreaves school has not yet greatly invention, it is tyranny scholars held said, also today. Addition scholars of management is the science, mostly reading such as Tao Yuanming, careless. But human endowment inch since the rationale is the feeling, and it could be the text of disabilities, research fine idea, and made immortal article, no not coincide at reasonable then; while knocking their attainments Road, He is also not knowing its Ho by the also.
The contemporary Chinese generally take transliteration way, translated logic.
The logic itself is the thought process of inference and proof, logic is a subject of valid inference and proven principles and standards ". As a form of science, logic through argumentation inference system with natural language to study and classified the structure of the proposition and demonstration.
Logical range from the core issues of the fallacy and paradox like to take advantage of the chance to infer causal theory argument and reasoning. Logic is often used today in the theories of the debate. [6]
The section under Humanism is also reasonably good.
In China, Huangdi is regarded as the humanistic primogenitor. Sage kings such as Yao and Shun are humanistic figures as recorded.King Wu of Zhou has the famous saying: "Humanity is the Ling (efficacious essence) of the world (among all)." Among them Duke of Zhou, respected as a founder of Rujia (Confucianism), is especially prominent and pioneering in humanistic thought. His words were recorded in the Book of History as follows (translation):
In the 6th century BCE, Taoist teacher Lao Tzu espoused a naturalistic and humanistic philosophy which gave rise a loose-knit collection of movements known as Taoism with some sects adopting forms of Chinese Yoga and meditation, while yet some other sects incorporated magical rites.
What the people desire, Heaven certainly complies?
Heaven (or "God") is not believable. Our Tao (special term referring to "the way of nature") includes morality (derived from the philosophy of former sage kings and to be continued forward).
Confucius also taught secular ethics. The Silver Rule of Confucianism from Analects XV.24, is an example of ethical philosophy based on human values rather than the supernatural. Humanistic thought is also contained in other Confucian classics, e.g., as recorded inZuo Zhuan, Ji Liang says: "People is the zhu (master, lord, dominance, owner or origin) of gods. So, to sage kings, people first, gods second"; Neishi Guo says: "Gods, clever, righteous and wholehearted, comply with human."
Always polite to acknowledge another's work... referencing to the relevant source would be a good first step. but naturally though you'd know all about that according to your claimed self actualisation as outlined in 'Maslow's hierarchy of needs'. For what it's worth, it is said that very very few of us mare mortals ever reach the final step in Maslow's pyramid! But that's ok, MJH you keep up with your cutting a pasting... got to keep your post rate up!
I do not feel smart posting, I feel smart though when I read and understand the material.
Not everyone is self actuated, it merely means that most people get stuck on stupid shit and miss the point.
BMW spotted in Zibo!
Attachment 10586
They do that for recognition from peers and or pussy
Personally I don't really understand exactly why they do it. I think it's done as a 'fan boy' thing. Also that many people will presume it's real and he'll get some face or something.