How cars see us

This is supposed to be about motorcycle safety, a few tips to make yourself visible. But I was more impressed when explains how cagers see riders..



If I was a driver and never rode a bike before, I would see, or not see, riders the same way. Stop dissing other drivers, take responsibility first, try to see yourself from other people's perspective. An accident is an accident, better avoid it, and avoid near misses, rather than debating who's fault or getting all worked up and loose your temper about incidents. keep up the :riding::riding:

Edit: forgot to include original youtube link..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slabo

take responsibility first

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Right on! Thanks for the video. All safety videos are worthwhile, but I found this one quite good. I'm a little leary about his weaving technique to increase visibility, as you have to be ready to quickly steer around the unexpected (which you should be thinking MIGHT happen - it becomes second nature, after a while). And that brings me to the point of big-pig bikes - that massive beast might look cool with lots of chrome and a deep growling sound, but very few riders (if any) are able to nimbly maneuver such a bike around obstacles. Big pigs tend to drive into unexpected situations, rather than around them. Just yesterday, I watched a rider on a Harley Fat Boy turning left across a large intersection ... a car coming the other way turning right came into the biker's intended path ... it was obvious that the Harley rider couldn't maneuver quickly, but the car fortunately made a quick correction to avoid the certain accident.

CC posted in another thread that his #1 rule when riding in China is "I am invisible". So true! So damn true!

And your point, Slabo, of keeping one's cool is also very important. Sure, a rider may be totally in the right ... but it is on a bike, so ANY accident puts the rider (physically) on the wrong side of the contest. Don't piss off a driver! They're armed with a cruise missile, you're armed with a stick.

Good video, thanks for the post. There's a couple of things I thought about while watching. I would like to add that if you have a flash-to-pass switch that you employ that also. Some here in the states have added the modulating headlights. While the concept is good, in practice, at least for me, it doesn't work well. Where I live (Michigan), most road are fairly bumpy. They get that way from all the patching. Almost all of the headlights look like they are modulating because of the bumps. There is a lot of weaving because of them, also. Therefore, we don't pay that much attention to a light that is modulating nor a bike/car that is weaving since most vehicles are doing both. When someone flashes their lights, however, I notice them more. Add a horn toot to that and I pay real attention.

I was surprised to find a flash-to-pass switch on my Qlink. I use it in the situation shown in the video where I want to catch someone's attention. I get a flash back sometimes so I can say that at least it's working some of the time.

By the way, I did notice that instructor on the vid was not wearing what he calls a "high vis" vest.

Nice old chap, but that weaving around probably won't do any good, if a driver isn't paying attention adequately he'll pull out. My advanced motorcycle instructors taught me to presume that the car will pull out. In China weaving ain't gonna help but presuming the other rider or driver will pull out even if they have seen you does help. I decelerate my bike and cover my brakes until I've passed.

I'm no veteran rider, but I feel a bit skeptical about that swerving maneuver -- but for another reaons: rider stability, or lack thereof. Yes, swerving is an excellent skill we should all have, and it's an essential drill in MSF training in the US. But logically, it's inherently less safe than riding a straight line, especially in places with less-than-brilliantly maintained roads (and where isn't this true?). Do your fancy swerving into an unseen patch or sand or oil, and down you go -- creating your own unilateral accident. Probably better than slamming broadside into a car at speed, but still not the smartest thing to do.

Or am I just overly timid and overreacting to my own getoff, which in retrospect surely occurred during a minor but poorly executed swerve? (Yes, ChinaV and Felix, I probably have chicken wings or chicken legs or whatever you call them on my tires from my failure to hammer through the curves...)

In my mind, as I approach that car that looks ready to turn into my path, I'm thinking: 1) have I left myself a path of escape? 2) perhaps I should check my speed (which will give the driver more time to see me, 3) how about flashing my high beam or tooting the horn? --though of course this raises the twisted logic of China this such actions on my part could actually affirm to the driver that I believe he has not seen me, thus conferring to ME the responsibility of averting a collision! On this last point, I can say with full conviction that plenty of Chinese car, bus and truck drivers, and perhaps even the majority, believe that it's okay for them to pull in front of a motorcycle or bicycle. It happens to me many times a day, and of course must be factored into my speed and line selection. It's not that these drivers don't see me; they just think it's OK to pull into the path of a smaller vehicle.

EDIT: Just to carry this final thought through to its logical conclusion, it is not enough to be seen by other motorists. Do not assume that just because you have been seen, or have a reasonable belief that you've been seen, you can proceed into the danger zone. In many, many instances, these drivers will put your life at risk knowing full well that they are doing so.

Thoughts?

A guy ran into my red pickup truck the other day and said that he didn't see me. Minor fender bender in my truck but maybe death if I was on my bike.

Point is I use high viz equip on my bike but don't depend on it.

Assume that driver does not see you. My two crashes on the road in fifty plus years of motorcycle riding have been as a result of drivers not seeing me or at least that what they said to the police. I probably could have avoided both if I had :eekers:practiced what I preach.

I am not counting crashes while riding in the dirt.:riding:

Thanks for Sharing Slabo, some good points in that video. Although I've always felt the day-glow thing (high vis) is a bit ghey, I've noticed people reacting when I where it. My high vis jacket is very hot, so I usually only wear it during the cooler months. Maybe I should look for a summer model as well, every little bit helps.

http://www.contactdi.com/2011/IMG4680.jpg

Cheers!
ChinaV

High viz mesh jacket for summer use and high viz helmet for year round use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

I'm no veteran rider, but I feel a bit skeptical about that swerving maneuver -- but for another reaons: rider stability, or lack thereof. Yes, swerving is an excellent skill we should all have, and it's an essential drill in MSF training in the US. But logically, it's inherently less safe than riding a straight line, especially in places with less-than-brilliantly maintained roads (and where isn't this true?). Do your fancy swerving into an unseen patch or sand or oil, and down you go -- creating your own unilateral accident. Probably better than slamming broadside into a car at speed, but still not the smartest thing to do.

Or am I just overly timid and overreacting to my own getoff, which in retrospect surely occurred during a minor but poorly executed swerve? (Yes, ChinaV and Felix, I probably have chicken wings or chicken legs or whatever you call them on my tires from my failure to hammer through the curves...)

In my mind, as I approach that car that looks ready to turn into my path, I'm thinking: 1) have I left myself a path of escape? 2) perhaps I should check my speed (which will give the driver more time to see me, 3) how about flashing my high beam or tooting the horn? --though of course this raises the twisted logic of China this such actions on my part could actually affirm to the driver that I believe he has not seen me, thus conferring to ME the responsibility of averting a collision! On this last point, I can say with full conviction that plenty of Chinese car, bus and truck drivers, and perhaps even the majority, believe that it's okay for them to pull in front of a motorcycle or bicycle. It happens to me many times a day, and of course must be factored into my speed and line selection. It's not that these drivers don't see me; they just think it's OK to pull into the path of a smaller vehicle.

EDIT: Just to carry this final thought through to its logical conclusion, it is not enough to be seen by other motorists. Do not assume that just because you have been seen, or have a reasonable belief that you've been seen, you can proceed into the danger zone. In many, many instances, these drivers will put your life at risk knowing full well that they are doing so.

Thoughts?

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Absolutely agree with you on these points. For me it's:

#1 Be Seen/Heard (flash lights/honk horn).
#2 Slow Down
#3 Assume driver will pull in front (or ebike hidden from view by car), even at red, and keep brakes covered.

before we discuss, how many times we see a car/truck driver stop at G/S/X road junction checking for straight line traffic? Most of time they just cut your line and get in your way right? The 1 difference of Chinese driver is they expect you to give way for aggressive vehicle and vice versa.
I think if you see a vehicle stop at junction (precisely they slowly appear in your sight), expect they get to your way, so check traffic behind you (as seem in video) is helpful if you are NOT going to slow down for them (I know you have priority to ignore them).
Or, if you are so determined, do use the honk or flash the headlight (the headlight is use differently here) telling them back off or prepare for crash.
apology if my use of words aren't good enough.