Although it is probably focusing more on cars, it is possible that motorcycles might also be caught in the net.
Basically, the Beijing police are going to go after fake / copied / expired / absent plates. Always an issue with motorcycles, it is becoming more common with cars now that Beijing has the car plate lottery system. When people can't get plates, they get "creative". No surprise there.
The game changer is that the new May 1 Traffic Safety law (the one that changed the drunk driving law) makes it a criminal offense to operate a vehicle with a fake/modified/copied/absent plate. Previously, it was a traffic violation. Now it is 10 to 15 days in jail, a 2,000 rmb fine, an impounding of the vehicle (unregistered vehicles will likely be tough to get back) ... and the nasty consequences of your visa/job with a criminal record.
Well, perhaps like most "campaigns", it may last a few weeks and then be "business as usual".
Hmmmm - I wonder what might happen to the Chongli bike event, in Hebei? There is a police check / road block when one enters Beijing. I guess many riders will be finding obscure mountain trails to get back home!?
05-20-2011, 06:55 AM
Steve_R
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Thanks for posting. Can someone run the Chinese article through a translator and do a 'touch-up' job?
I wonder what the difference is (in terms of enforcement) between riding around with no plates as opposed to fake plates.
Also, is this a national law, or city-specific? Generally speaking, enforcement varies from city-to-city anyways.
05-20-2011, 10:10 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Thanks for posting. Can someone run the Chinese article through a translator and do a 'touch-up' job?
Sorry, my Chinese sucks ... someone else?
I picked up this article on the H.O.G. forum, where you have to be a registered Harley owner (i.e., legal bike) to be a member. Therefore, the discussion / comments were rather tilted towards "it is about time".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
I wonder what the difference is (in terms of enforcement) between riding around with no plates as opposed to fake plates.
My guess is it depends on which officer stops you. Tough luck if you get an officer whose daughter was just dumped by a laowai. Good luck if the officer's son just got into an overseas university on a recommendation from a laowai prof.
Although I am not a lawyer, nor a cop, nor do I have any inside policy info, the way I read the situation is that it no longer matters (fake versus none). The expat rumor-mill used to claim that no plate was better than a fake plate, but it seems that either is now a criminal offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Also, is this a national law, or city-specific? Generally speaking, enforcement varies from city-to-city anyways.
National law, but I've only heard about Beijing's campaign. However, if the drunk driving campaign (post May 1 law) is any indication, this plate campaign will be gung ho and probably migrate elsewhere later. Beijing is really going all out re the drunk driving these days.
Be interesting to hear what happens to fellow riders. Can one post from jail?
05-20-2011, 11:54 AM
bikerdoc
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
I can say that there have been a lot of check points in the past month or so, and I have been stopped at some of them and asked for my license, bike license and or asked to speak into a breath analyser. One of my riding mates asked why I didn't bother to take an alternative route or avoid the check point all together or else do a 'runner' - however since I'm all legal I don't see the need, and it's kind of ok to just have some small banter with the local traffic police, since I might need them one day - which having met one or two previously may work in my favour.
I've just returned from a trip around a couple of mountains as well as a circuit (twice) around Dong Qian Lake, and coming back into town, saw a check point complete with cones, filtering 3 lanes into 1 where half a dozen officers stand at the ready. It's worth noting that some police also are carrying hand held electronic gadgets that they use to check plates on the spot. Saw them use one a few months ago, to run my plates while I was stationary.
Seems they are cracking down for sure. I have noticed there is a lot of reporting on drunk driving cases on Chinese TV channels of late. Today a DUI driver that tail ended a stationary car at some traffic lights, in which 3 of the 4 occupants died, was sentenced today; life imprisonment and CNY 4million payable to the surviving family member from the car that the defendant crashed into. So message as always is 'drink and drive and you're a bloody idiot.'
Hi, finally they start checking all the morons running no plates / fake plates / stolen bikes + scooters and get them off the road. Ride safe, PAL
Beijing police will be special campaigns involving the illegal license penalties for high-limit
Source: China News at 08:26 on May 17, 2011
Municipal Traffic Management Bureau announced yesterday that started today in the city concentrate on improving the motor vehicle licensing law concerning the special action, strike hard not required to install the license plate, block plate, misappropriation license plate and other related offenses. The traffic control department reminded the public that in accordance with the newly revised "Road Traffic Safety Law "stipulates that: of forging, altering or using forged or altered motor vehicle registration, license plate, vehicle license, driving license, at 10 ~ 15 days detention impose a fine of 2,000 yuan; constitute a crime shall be held criminally responsible.
According to reports, the consolidation of motor vehicles including motor vehicles involved in illegal without a license plate on the road, do not follow the installation of license plate, block the plate, the use of expired temporary license plate, diversion plate, install the license holder, the number card lock behavior.
Municipal Traffic Management Bureau said relevant, licensing of motor vehicles involved in illegal activities, the traffic control department will be based on the revised "Road Traffic Safety Law "upper limit strictly the relevant provisions of punishment, especially without a license plate (including the temporary use of expired plate), all vehicles to be detained; on that license plate has been altered, the use of paint graffiti, paste paper or altered (such as number plate in the 1 to 7, F to E) and other records sufficient information on the number plate caused the error to determine the content of the plot, according to "Road Traffic Safety Law "ninety-sixth article, shall be subject to severe punishment.
08-30-2011, 02:04 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Had a weird experience yesterday (Monday) ...
I'd heard about a MC gear shop in the NW of Beijing, so thought I'd check it out. It is outside the 5th ring road.
Arrived, parked and went inside. Average shop - nothing special.
Came outside & the police are waiting. Asked me for my license, registration, insurance and inspection documents. No problem - I know the routine.
What was weird was that the police had set up a little "check point" next to the shop. I'd parked half a block away because I wasn't sure where the shop was. I guess after they saw me go into the shop they walked over to my bike and waited.
I hung around to watch. Within a couple of smokes & a bottle of water, they'd checked 3 other bikes coming to the shop (appeared to have seized an R9).
My guess - the shop owner p'd someone off. Can't be good for biz having a police check at your front door.
08-31-2011, 12:59 AM
bigdamo
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
So what happens with all these seized motorcycles?
Do they auction them off.
Scrap them.
09-10-2011, 01:25 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdamo
So what happens with all these seized motorcycles?
Do they auction them off.
Scrap them.
Just saw a little blurb on TV about this, yesterday ...
According to the report, since the campaign began, police have seized 10,700 illegal motorcycles, 7,300 automobiles, and detained 982 people.
It also showed a short video of some 3-wheeled bikes and some cars getting crushed by an excavator, and then being pushed into a pile by a bulldozer.
It was related to that story from earlier this week of the unlicensed 15 year old driving a newish BMW, along with his 18 year old friend in a fake-plated Audi, getting into an argument with a family. I guess the 15 year old and 18 year old beat the crap outta the mother & father over a traffic dispute, hospitalizing the father and injuring the mother, in front of their 5 year old child. Happened in Beijing. And, like the infamous "My father is Li Gang" ... these little bast%rds challenged the onlookers to dare to call the police. Actually, the onlookers did ... and they held the little monsters until the police came.
omg - if an unlicensed 15 year old isn't enough to make you cringe ... how about a 5 year old?
At first, I thought that maybe this little girl is on daddy's lap ... but nope, check out the end of the video when dad gets out of the back seat and appears to be removing the pedal extensions.
09-10-2011, 08:15 AM
euphonius
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Sorry, but where are the fucking cops when you need them??????? Take those "parents", fry them in blazing tallow, and put that child in foster care NOW!
09-10-2011, 11:43 AM
ChinaV
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
There's a park next to my house, and I cringe watching the BMW's flying around the corners with their little kids standing up and poking out the sunroof. Wonder how far they fly when daddy hits the brakes?
Cheers!
ChinaV
09-11-2011, 03:22 AM
Pal
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
was told the police confiscated some big bikes in Beijing during the last few days, another crackdown before the mid autumn festival / october national holidays?
Ride safe, PAL
************************************************** **************************
Singer's son is released
By Li Jinghao | 2011-9-11 | Shanghai Daily
Sep 11, 2011, BEIJING police have released the son of famous Chinese military singer Li Shuangjiang who allegedly assaulted a couple over a road dispute as the 15-year-old boy is exempt from criminal charges because he is still a minor, a Guangdong newspaper reported yesterday.
Li Tianyi was freed after 15 hours in custody and police said the case had been transferred to the traffic police department for further investigation, Xinkuai Newspaper reported.
The souped-up BMW the boy drove was reported to be involved in 32 traffic violations and until the latest accident happened, nobody showed up to shoulder the penalties for those violations, the report said.
According to Beijing police, Li Tianyi and an 18-year-old man surnamed Su were detained on Thursday. The pair had quarreled with a couple outside a residential complex over an accident that injured the couple on Tuesday.
The minimum driving age in China is 18.
Media reports said Su drove an Audi with a license plate number used by government officials in northern Shanxi Province. Su later admitted he faked the plate and lied that he was related to a senior police officer in Shanxi.
Shanxi police later said Su's father is a board chairman of a big company and operates an auto trade company.
Su's Audi was also found to be involved in 36 traffic violations since September 2009, according to the Beijing Times.
The couple accepted the military singer's apology in hospital but said they had hired lawyers and would launch legal proceedings against their attackers.
09-11-2011, 03:34 AM
euphonius
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Thanks for the update, Pal. These guys are getting off very easy, and the media are deliberately misreading the law. Yes, criminal law is not normally applicable against minors under 16, but there are plenty of ways to throw the book at them.
Having daddy make an apology and sweeping it under the rug is disgusting. This kid should be in reform school, and the 18-year-old should be charged with assault and battery, serious criminal charges.
Incidentally, the "military singer" father is actually a PLA general. yes, with stars on his epaulets.
They clearly are above the law. TIC.
09-11-2011, 12:17 PM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal
was told the police confiscated some big bikes in Beijing during the last few days, another crackdown before the mid autumn festival / october national holidays?
Details are sketchy - rumor has it that a large police SWAT team moved in on an assembly of foreign biker-gang-types on Harleys, and confiscated several illegal bikes (I heard 10 motorcycles seized). Happened Saturday.
Doesn't sound like it was part of any normal campaign. Sounds very serious.
But I have only heard rumors, albeit from a reliable source.
09-12-2011, 03:25 PM
andre555
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
...But I have only heard rumors, albeit from a reliable source.
Yeah, that looks a lot like an ambush from someone with a grudge...
09-16-2011, 01:35 AM
Pal
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
Having daddy make an apology and sweeping it under the rug is disgusting. This kid should be in reform school, and the 18-year-old should be charged with assault and battery, serious criminal charges.
A year in custody for road rage teen
By Leo Zhang | 2011-9-16 | Shanghai Daily
Sep 16, 2011
LI Tianyi, son of renowned Chinese military singer Li Shuangjiang, has been sent to a government correctional facility for a one-year confinement for assaulting a couple in a road rage incident.
Li Tianyi, 15, was charged with causing a disturbance, the Beijing Public Security Bureau said yesterday.
Police have also applied for an arrest warrant for Su Nan, 18, on the same charge.
Li Tianyi and Su had been under police detention since they quarreled with the couple and injured them on September 6.
The incident aroused public anger as Li Tianyi was reported to have shouted: "Who dare to call the police?"
The two teenagers, whose cars were forced to stop as the couple's car slowed to turn into a complex, got out and beat them. The husband had to have 11 stitches in a head wound and his wife's forehead was injured.
Media reports said that Li Tianyi's souped-up BMW had 32 unpaid tickets for speeding or other careless driving offenses but Beijing police said yesterday that he had paid all the fines.
Su had earlier claimed he was a relative of a police chief in Shanxi Province, but later admitted he lied. Beijing police said Su's father, Su Wenbin, former chairman of an auto sales company in Shanxi, had been detained for forging a car plate. Police said earlier that the plate on the Audi Su Nan was driving during the incident was fake.
In an apology, the singer, a major general, told the couple: "I didn't give him a good upbringing. I feel sorry. I'd rather you hit me."
09-16-2011, 04:49 AM
euphonius
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Latest I heard this morning was that the hothead 15-year-old son-of-a-military-singer was sentenced to a year of youth detention, which I expect will not be a picnic, especially given his special pedigree. The 18-year-old has been formally arrested and is now very likely to do hard time for assault. That too will not be a picnic.
And as for the "fake" plate on the Audi, clearly someone who liked that auspicious number worked the system to get it assigned to two different cars. I say, find those perps and bring them down too.
cheers
12-13-2011, 10:39 AM
lobotomous
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Got my first ticket today.
Not sure if there is a current clamp-down - maybe they have a quota to fill before the end of the year?
Had previously not seen any road blocks targeted at bikes, nor had I ever been stopped.
I had thought I was 100% legal, but was handed a ¥200 fine for obstructed number plate.
12-13-2011, 11:26 AM
bigdamo
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobotomous
Got my first ticket today.
Not sure if there is a current clamp-down - maybe they have a quota to fill before the end of the year?
Had previously not seen any road blocks targeted at bikes, nor had I ever been stopped.
I had thought I was 100% legal, but was handed a ¥200 fine for obstructed number plate.
Chinese new year coming up.Some people need extra cash.:rolleyes1:
12-13-2011, 11:53 AM
ShuBen
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
I would like to share a helpful thing in case police officers get rude or impolite.
In the past I turned their behavior around by recording their personal service number and asking for their name.
No need to mention something about complaining. Suddenly they are very correct and even helpful.
It even worked in the public security where they told me I would be late for registering (which was not true)
Does somebody has similar experiences?
12-13-2011, 03:04 PM
lobotomous
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuBen
ISuddenly they are very correct and even helpful.
I think this is sound advice. Sadly the cop who booked me today was not in the mood to be humoured and did his job to the letter. I never imagined being booked for something so petty, but it's there in the regulations, black and white. Banged to rights etc.
He did give me a salute when handing me the ticket, which was a classy touch, I thought.
12-14-2011, 01:20 AM
lobotomous
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
I just found out after having someone look at the ticket that as well as a ¥200 fine, I have also been awarded 6 points. This seems a bit steep for such a minor offence. I have a month or so to appeal, I think. Anyone got any advice on this?
12-14-2011, 02:05 AM
euphonius
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
While this seems a minor offense and a petty degree of enforcement, I think it also signals something really significant: The traffic police and government are attempting to snuff out unlicensed or fake licensed vehicles, which ultimately should be a good thing for everyone. Here in Shanghai, many pocket rocket scoots blast around town with no plates at all, and they are a key target of enforcement here. But the police want to ensure that riders don't skirt this by using fake plates, and this cannot be enforced unless they establish that every bike must have a plate and every plate must be visible and legible. This inevitably reduces the ability of unlicensed or fake licensed bikes to blend in and hide -- and evade.
There's another angle too, somewhat more insidious to my thinking: You notice the tens of thousands of cameras along every road in every city? Yes, big brother is watching, and using enforcement as they did to you to ensure that the cameras' view of your plate is unobstructed substantially increases grandma's ability to conduct surveillance of her population.
I just found out after having someone look at the ticket that as well as a ¥200 fine, I have also been awarded 6 points. This seems a bit steep for such a minor offence. I have a month or so to appeal, I think. Anyone got any advice on this?
Wow - that six points hurts! One more of these within the year and you're off to re-education camp (traffic school).
I'm often bitchin' and complaining about the lack of enforcement, and that is why traffic is so insane, yadda yadda yadda ... BUT, when the police finally do step up enforcement, I also think the police only need to focus on the other guy ... I'm a good little boy.
So, my comment? Glad it was you, buddy, and not me!
Should you appeal? Definitely ... we'd all love to read the commentary.
12-14-2011, 02:58 AM
Barry
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
It's the end the of the year, and your points will be reset soon if I'm correct! But can they seriously deduct 6 points for that? Could an appeal slow down things and make you get 6 points on next year's conto you could ask yourself?
I got away with having my rear plate covered with a bag when I got stopped a month or 2 ago. It was fine when they saw there was an A-plate below it, think they were trying to catch fakes and B-plates (It was around 2nd ring so).
12-14-2011, 03:54 AM
bikerdoc
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
I've written this before in posts... but again... anything to do with license plates moved from being a traffic infringement to becoming a criminal charge earlier this year, so playing with license plates is as a consequence a much more serious matter/offense. More of a reason to go legal. 100%. Get a drivers license, get a legal plate that can be checked by police anytime, and have compulsory insurance up to date... that way one minimises liability.
Another thing, there are police hand held data terminals that are being used with increasing frequency, where the officer inputs the information and gets instantaneous vehicle information on the fly. I know as I have watch it in action first hand. Data displays everything related to the plate/vehicle/owner.
Add to that the use of number plate recognition cameras, used in many locations; highways, all along the expressways, and even now mounted to police vehicle roofs. Big brother is watching...
12-14-2011, 04:46 AM
lobotomous
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
.. anything to do with license plates moved from being a traffic infringement to becoming a criminal charge earlier this year...
Thanks - I hadn't realised this. I thought that maybe the cop had made a mistake. I might still look into an appeal if I have nothing to lose.
Not sure what we can infer from this single event. He may have just been having a bad day.
I think I could have avoided him quite easily, but didn't make the effort as I believed myself to be legal.
RE: Euphonius' point:
Yes - the cameras worry me - I will need to be more careful about bus lanes and cycle lanes from now on if I am to avoid re-education camp.
12-30-2011, 05:05 AM
lobotomous
Re: Beijing "campaign" re license plates
Well - I went down the appeal route, but sorry to report that this was not upheld.
Process is as follows: Go in person to the Traffic Police office in the area concerned, where it seems to be dealt with by one guy sitting in an office.
Whether there is any follow-up is unclear.
My appeal consisted of a very polite letter explaining that the cop was not consistent or clear in his communication with me and did not take time to make sure I understood (true), as well as some technicalities about the processing (e.g. the printout was illegible). I also figured that they didn't have any evidence regarding the exact nature of the offence and that there was some doubt over it. I was careful to ensure that I was not seeking preferential treatment as a foreigner, but that I did expect to have the opportunity to represent myself, which I hadn't at the time as the cop was unwilling to engage in a conversation at my less-than-fluent level.
The cop in the appeal office gave me some more telling off, which I took, but I was persistent and showed him all my papers and evidence. He eventually told me to take a seat.
It seemed that after telling me off again he was going to waive the fine or the points as this was a first offence.
Unfortunately he was unable to log on to the computer system. So after about 5 minutes of trying with his assistant, and realising that it was approaching lunchtime (11.30 to 1.30 of course!) he finally said there was nothing to do and that the fine and points had to stand.
The fine has to be paid through ICBC bank. Off I went to pay the fine. Queued for half an hour to then discover that the Police computer was indeed down and that I wasn't even able to pay the fine and would have to go back another day.
The experience broadly reflects what I have come to expect. I can't really say I was treated unfairly in this case, just unluckily.
Is it worth making an appeal? I think so. Depending on which way the wind is blowing and how you are able to put over your case, the appeal cops do at least appear to give another chance to put your case.