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What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Like the titles says... What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
I am a novice rider, but have logged lots of track time in fast cars ranging from sport compacts to exotics. Good handling, braking, and high power to weight are important me. Honestly, the YBR250/YS250 appears weak in this regard.
Bike must be reliable. I am good with a wrench, but I don’t want a bike that presupposes that fact. Wrenching should be limited to maintenance, adjustment, and upgrades, not major repair.
I want to buy enough bike and buy once. I hate selling and horse trading. Regarding resale I would likely dispose of it after five years, might keep it, not sure.
I’d like to spend less than 20k RMB, I can easily spend 30k. You could talk me up 50k, but the bike would have really be something special across all my use cases to drop that kind of coin. I lean towards the value end of the spectrum.
My day-to-day riding will be 95% tarmac, a significant portion of which is in atrocious condition. The bike also needs to get me up the occasional interesting dirt path.
I definitely want to ride down through Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. (hopefully with some of you hooligans) I’d also like to tour two-up in the mountains out west Yunnan, Sichuan, Xinjiang, maybe a trek to Everest base camp.
I am 182cm (82 cm inseam) 85kg. Two-up touring would include a compact 60kg pillion plus bags.
What’s your opinion of the bikes below vs my needs? What other bikes I should consider?
KTM Duke 390 |
49,800 RMB |
India [mfd], China [assemb] |
Kawasaki Z300 |
40,900 RMB (Z250 ABS) |
Thailand |
Honda CB300F |
34,980 RMB (CBR300R) |
Thailand |
Suzuki GW250 |
23,880 – 25,880 RMB |
China, Haojue JV |
Yamaha YS250 |
19,800 RMB |
China, Jianshe JV |
Honda CBF190 |
14,800 RMB |
China, Sundiro JV |
I purposefully left off Benelli as they seem to have problems inconsistent with my reliability requirement. I have my concerns about KTM as well.
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Interesting list, here are my thoughts.
The Honda CBF190r seems a little weak. It has less HP then the CB150RR.
The Yamaha YS250 has terrible power output for a 250cc bike. All that weight and very little benefit other then reliability.
The Suzuki is in the same boat as the yamaha in my opinion. Neither have the best power to weight ratios and both bikes look like they were designed in the 90's.
Your other bikes were out of my price range so I never considered them. I also considered a Benelli but after the atrocious reviews on quality I got cold feet.
I am down to two choices (unless someone gives me better options).
The KTM Duke 200. It has more HP and Torque then most of the 250's and is incredibly light. It tops out at 137kph due to a speed limiter not rev limiter but has great acceleration and seems like a great bike for city fun, occasional trips and canyon riding. 29800 rmb
The Kawasaki Z250SL. It is a little more powerful then the duke and a little heavier as well. It tops out at 161kph. However it is likely more reliable than the KTM. Seems like a well rounded bike though. 29800 rmb
Both are naked bikes with up right seating positions and are super light and nimble. Let me know what your thoughts are. I ride a off brand factory Chinese bike now and it is just not reliable in any way and I do not feel safe. I will be getting one of these two bikes within the next few weeks. Lots of user reviews and videos on these two bikes so I am fairly confident in my choices. I just have to make sure the Duke is 2015 as earlier models had a lot of problems that KTM recently sorted out. I find my self needing to push my bike into strange places to park it safely so I also like these options because they are so damn light.
I would consider other bikes but there seem to be very few in my price range with adequate power and reliability. I also would rather keep as much as possible in the bank. I hope my thoughts help and look forward to hearing what you have to say!
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Check Suzuki GW250 and I still recommend the Shinetay X2 with some mods (see the reports here in the forum)
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asymptomatic
Interesting list, here are my thoughts.
The Honda CBF190r seems a little weak. It has less HP then the CB150RR.
The Yamaha YS250 has terrible power output for a 250cc bike. All that weight and very little benefit other then reliability.
The Suzuki is in the same boat as the yamaha in my opinion. Neither have the best power to weight ratios and both bikes look like they were designed in the 90's.
Your other bikes were out of my price range so I never considered them. I also considered a Benelli but after the atrocious reviews on quality I got cold feet.
I am down to two choices (unless someone gives me better options).
The KTM Duke 200. It has more HP and Torque then most of the 250's and is incredibly light. It tops out at 137kph due to a speed limiter not rev limiter but has great acceleration and seems like a great bike for city fun, occasional trips and canyon riding. 29800 rmb
The Kawasaki Z250SL. It is a little more powerful then the duke and a little heavier as well. It tops out at 161kph. However it is likely more reliable than the KTM. Seems like a well rounded bike though. 29800 rmb
Both are naked bikes with up right seating positions and are super light and nimble. Let me know what your thoughts are. I ride a off brand factory Chinese bike now and it is just not reliable in any way and I do not feel safe. I will be getting one of these two bikes within the next few weeks. Lots of user reviews and videos on these two bikes so I am fairly confident in my choices. I just have to make sure the Duke is 2015 as earlier models had a lot of problems that KTM recently sorted out. I find my self needing to push my bike into strange places to park it safely so I also like these options because they are so damn light.
I would consider other bikes but there seem to be very few in my price range with adequate power and reliability. I also would rather keep as much as possible in the bank. I hope my thoughts help and look forward to hearing what you have to say!
Asymptomatic? I hope its not contagious! :lol8:
...and haven't you heard!? The 90's are back in fashion. It's the new retro!
Between the two, hands down the Z250SL. Especially for even money.
On the automotive side of things you'll often hear, there is no replacement for displacement. Meaning, for two given engines with a similar performance envelope, the larger displacement engine will be less stressed and have a broader torque curve. Other factors being equal, this translates to better longevity, lower heat dissipation, and faster lap times.
I have not seen a dyno plot of the KTM 200 motor, but I have seen plots comparing the outgoing Kawasaki Ninja 250 (same motor as Z250) to the new Ninja 300 and the Honda CBR250R to the new CBR300R. An extra 50cc makes a huge difference! (only 37cc in the Honda's case) I would say the KTM 200 can’t compete with the Kawa 250 anywhere except at the very peak of its output.
Regarding power to weight, the small advantage the KTM quickly narrows in the real world as you add in the weight of the fuel, pilot, pillion, bags, etc. Because the additional weight is significant relative to the bike's weight (i.e. The 16.5lb advantage shrinks as a percentage of the total loaded weight vs the dry weight)
I can’t speak to the difference in qualitative factors, handling, braking, and the like. I know the KTM has more advanced suspension, but I am not reading anything negative about the Kawasaki in this regard.
Neither has a great seat for your pillion, but not a lot does in this performance category.
Question: Is the Z250SL selling for 29,800 now? The Kawasaki China site shows 32,900.
Kawasaki Z250SL
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mot
Asymptomatic? I hope its not contagious! :lol8:
...and haven't you heard!? The 90's are back in fashion. It's the new retro!
Question: Is the Z250SL selling for 29,800 now? The Kawasaki China site shows 32,900.
Kawasaki Z250SL
Yes the Kawasaki is selling for 28900 depending on the color scheme. Here is a taobao link. Yes, a million times I have heard the phrase "no replacement for displacement" The only reason I like the KTM is the wider profile and to me, it just looks a lot better. I am very partial to good looking things even if they are terrible. Just like women...
It is contagious, I will give it to you on our first ride. No worries!
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...ucket=2#detail
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asymptomatic
Yes, a million times I have heard the phrase "no replacement for displacement" The only reason I like the KTM is the wider profile and to me, it just looks a lot better. I am very partial to good looking things even if they are terrible. Just like women...
Haha, sounds like you don't need my advice . Go ride your slutty little KTM all over town!
The heart wants what the heart wants. Lather, rinse, repeat. Etc.
The hotter they are the more terrible things they can get away with.
But I digress...
More wisdom? :naughty:
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
A (red/orange(?) and black) Kawa Z250L with ABS is in BJ about 38k RMB including tax, excl. plate
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
... and here still a teaser ....
a selection of bikes going anywhere:
Shineray X5 & X2
223ccm Jialing (blue)
QJ150cc (in the background)
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
If you reconsidered Benelli, I would recommend Benelli BJ250, comparable to z250sl. I have clocked mine at 1800 km. Upgrade the front brake, the tyre. It runs decent, top speed 147, 0-100 7s(speedometer). Some minor issue, but fine for average person to fix.
I would not recommend other Benelli bikes though, no 300, no 600.
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShuBen
... and here still a teaser ....
a selection of bikes going anywhere:
Shineray X5 & X2
223ccm Jialing (blue)
QJ150cc (in the background)
Hey ShuBen,
I see you like the Dual Sports. How reliable are the Shineray x2s?
What do you think of the Honda CRF250L and what are your thoughts in comparison to the Shineray X2?
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I have my X2 now 5k km and its running well. But as u can see from my postings i have modified a number of things.
(Some are of course not necessary, but nice to have)
IMO the necessary mods cost u all in all 1000RMB.
In Thailand I have tried a CRF 250L and it is still another level over the X2, but u can't get it legal in China. So I went for the X2 ( about half price of a illegal CRF)
If I could get a legal CRF I would pay the difference.
Consider that between the CRF engine and the NX250 copy of the X2 lay about 20years
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asymptomatic
Hey ShuBen,
I see you like the Dual Sports. How reliable are the Shineray x2s?
What do you think of the Honda CRF250L and what are your thoughts in comparison to the Shineray X2?
Hi
Can't comment on the X2 not had one and would properly be like most Chinese made bikes "Hit and Miss".
But I can comment on the Honda CRF 250L if I may ??? well after 30.000 km in just over 1 year riding paved roads with loads of dirt roads mainly in Thailand with a 7 day trip to Laos and 5 days in China with the CRF, the bike handles the paved roads very good even when hitting big pots holes and with the dirt off-road its dam good but could be a lot better with a bigger sprocket on the back and hook up with some Michelin T63 or Dunlop D606 then the CRF would be very good on dirt.
The bike has not missed a beat and the only problem has been the clutch cable did break after 23.000 km cost to replace was 40 rmb bike will sit at 110/120 kmh ok and will top out just short of 140 kmh. IMO its one of the best small engine duel sports bikes you can buy and would be spot on for China.
But 1 big problem you can't get a legal one in China ? if you could I would buy 1 at a drop of a hat
My CRF is based in Thailand and cost 130,000 THB on the road insured that's about 26.000 RMB.
My 10 cents on the CRF.
Attachment 18146
Attachment 18147
Attachment 18148
Attachment 18149
Just a few pictures of the CRF in action
Attachment 18150
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShuBen
I have my X2 now 5k km and its running well. But as u can see from my postings i have modified a number of things.
(Some are of course not necessary, but nice to have)
IMO the necessary mods cost u all in all 1000RMB.
In Thailand I have tried a CRF 250L and it is still another level over the X2, but u can't get it legal in China. So I went for the X2 ( about half price of a illegal CRF)
If I could get a legal CRF I would pay the difference.
Consider that between the CRF engine and the NX250 copy of the X2 lay about 20years
What about the CRF250M (Not L)? I see it for sale all over. Are they all illegal as well? I really like this supermoto version of it.
Attachment 18158
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Never mind, I called and spoke to several of the places. They certainly are illegal. So sad.
Oh well, off to debating other possibilities then. Maybe a Shineray x2 or maybe a z250sl or maybe something else someone introduces to me.
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In China u can find now legal KLX150, but I don't know about their performance.
Wasn't there also a 250cc WonJan Honda naked bike .... CB250 or similar? What about that?
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Asymptomatic, like people use to say, "si fueris Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre". Buy some common Chinese "cabbage bike" and enjoy. :riding:
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asymptomatic
What about the CRF250M (Not L)? I see it for sale all over. Are they all illegal as well? I really like this supermoto version of it.
Attachment 18158
And with just a change of wheels you could have the L or the M version ! But sadly as you found out both are illegal !! .
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
This model is interesting, it’s a 223cc OHC with an oil cooler and EFI. It compares to the Jialing 223 models, with a few acceptations, one is it is not currently selling and the other is the price, the manufacturer is advertising that it will be offered for under 10k RMB.
It’s being advertised as a Yellow River model XHH250GY-2, I have no idea who they are, I have never heard of them.
The concept behind it is sound, the 223cc engine with EFI in an unassuming functional design and priced under the competition.
So you could make an effort to find out who they are and approach them, they need validation for the model and that comes through feedback.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ellow/250X.jpg
Very basic and for a very good price.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...250X-white.jpg
Seems that they have the geometry correct...
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...a5f4bbb809.jpg
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i prefer carbs over EFI. I have riding mate with an X2 EFI and he has only trouble with it.
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
My guess would be that any model sold in China over 150cc without EFI has some sort of falsified papers. The factories likely printed out more certificates then they manufactured, my guess would be that there are allot of 250cc models being registered as 150cc models?
I would expect that at first production models with EFI would have issues that eventually get resolved.
There is a government crackdown on manufactures and also some making efforts to offer models with EFI, eventually you will see more and more of them.
Once that becomes the normal the prices come down, the false option goes away with the crack down and the higher prices of EFI then fall as it becomes common. I am not sure if the configuration on the Jialing is problematic or not, this is likely a copy of that configuration and component parts?
It makes very little sense to pay more for the EFI and get headaches, this bike has the same engine and sells for under 9k RMB. Its made by Shineray.
http://mall.newmotor.com.cn/motor/314.html
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
OP here. Wow, what happened in this thread? Dirt and Dual Sport as far as the eye can see!
They look like loads of fun off road, but is that really what I need to tour? I am concerned with reliability first and street performance second with the assumption I will be buying a bike in China for touring China/SE Asia two-up.
I will say, the Yellow River is a handsome bike and tempting at 10k, but reading the forums you guys have me scared of Chinese bikes altogther.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ellow/250X.jpg
I want to buy once and ride :riding:
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mot
Like the titles says... What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
So MOT, While your thread was completely hijacked by our CRF250 and X2 nonsense, did you come to a conclusion on what you might get?
I am thinking I will end up with the Kawasaki Z250SL ABS. Mainly because I am not a good mechanic and we don't have any good mechanics in Changchun. I took my Chinese bike to the mechanics here and they seem to break more then they fix and try to do everything the wrong but easy way. I had them install new turn signals and instead of pulling the wires down and un-clipping them they cut, twisted and taped... that is just one example of the local mechanic fail here. Now I am learning as I go doing it all my self. I think the Kawasaki might be a safer bet for me. Hell, they could not even align my front wheel so the new breaks did not rub. They took two hours fiddling and said the new break disks must be bent. I went home, loosened the calipers, spun the wheel, grabbed the breaks hard, repeat and held the brakes while tightening the calipers. No rub now. Took one forum and 5 minutes of work for a guy with no clue to figure out. Drives me crazy.
I would love to hear what you decide and why. I will be purchasing at the latest, mid March. Maybe my decision will be influenced further. When I first started looking I was going to get the CB190R. However I am paranoid about its power when riding outside the city and carrying my 220 pound body along with any luggage. Maybe I should diet for the bike? Not to mention, the extreme lack of actual user reviews on line. It is all speculation.
Sorry Shuben, I am scared of needing to repair the Shineray and having no idea what I am doing. I also like the idea of ABS on the Kawasaki for emergency rain stops. Last spring I slid quite far and removed a fair amount of skin from my left leg, side and arm. I also had a concussion and a huge lump on my head because I did not have my helmet on. (I almost always wear my gear) A taxi swerved in front of me and I hit the brake a little hard and locked it up and forced a low side. Ripped my handle bars completely off, ripped the left fairing off, tore the mirror off, tore the foot peg off and bent the front left disk. I hobbled around my house like a woman pregnant with quintuplets forever.
Needless to say, I am really sad about not getting a CRF but since I am dropping 38000 I want to make sure I am getting the best bike I can for the price with reliability and ABS being important to me.
Here is my off brand Chinese make. I am sure you have seen similar knock offs rolling around town.
Attachment 18159
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
If I may weigh in.....:icon10:
-Forget hp/kW, look at torque numbers.
-I rate quite highly Japanese bikes made in Thailand and by Sundiro in China.
-KTM Duke 390 'on paper' is the best bike for you, but made in India and assembled in China, so that's a bit scary. :eekers:
- Jianshe and Haojue bikes seem OK and pretty solid, but the latter seem a tad better.
-All Chinese bikes are a crapshoot. People sing from the highest mountain about how good theirs is, Shineray, CFMOTO Benelli etc, but sometimes that's luck, and the next guy has been through the ringer with the same bike. Domestic versions can be worse too.:rolleyes1:
So, I think I would be inclined to agree with you the Z250 would be the top of my list, especially if you are thinking of bringing a pillion.
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no worries. I wont talk u in a X2. For me the continuous maintenance and improvement is fun and i love to have my hands in oil. But of course I still have my GS any time available as long as it is gas in. So i do not depend on the X2.
The Z250L ABS is a great bike. My friend has one. I rode it and can say it has a very smooth engine and a wonderful neutral handling setup. I loved to ride it. Only it is too small for me (185cm).
Anyway i think it would be a good choice.
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZMC888
If I may weigh in.....:icon10:
-Forget hp/kW, look at torque numbers.
-I rate quite highly Japanese bikes made in Thailand and by Sundiro in China.
-KTM Duke 390 'on paper' is the best bike for you, but made in India and assembled in China, so that's a bit scary. :eekers:
- Jianshe and Haojue bikes seem OK and pretty solid, but the latter seem a tad better.
-All Chinese bikes are a crapshoot. People sing from the highest mountain about how good theirs is, Shineray, CFMOTO Benelli etc, but sometimes that's luck, and the next guy has been through the ringer with the same bike. Domestic versions can be worse too.:rolleyes1:
So, I think I would be inclined to agree with you the Z250 would be the top of my list, especially if you are thinking of bringing a pillion.
Everything plays a role: valve train, compression rating, transmission gearing, and so on.
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Progress...
The KTM Duke 390 is out. No one made a compelling case for it, plus the tiny fuel tank (limited range) and almost non-existent pillion seat spoil it for me, but because my local KTM dealer is just across the alley from the Honda dealer I will still go sit on one and rethink my life.
The Honda CBR190F is also out. Consensus seems to be its not enough bike. It’s cheap and it’s a Honda seems to be all it has going for it.
Also it appears the Z300 is not available in China, so we’ll slot the Z250SL in its place.
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mot
Progress...
The KTM Duke 390 is out. No one made a compelling case for it, plus the tiny fuel tank (limited range) and almost non-existent pillion seat spoil it for me, but because my local KTM dealer is just across the alley from the Honda dealer I will still go sit on one and rethink my life.
The Honda CBR190F is also out. Consensus seems to be its not enough bike. It’s cheap and it’s a Honda seems to be all it has going for it.
Also it appears the Z300 is not available in China, so we’ll slot the Z250SL in its place.
Oh god, more to think about. My wife really likes Honda. She wants me to get the Honda CB300F. Since it sells for only 3000 more RMB. Is this bike legal here in China?
CB300F vs Z250SL
286cc vs 249cc
30.4hp (a little lower rpm range) vs 27.6hp (a little higher rpm range)
27Nm vs 22.6Nm
145mm ground clearance vs 180mm ground clearance
780mm seat height vs 785mm seat height
158kg mass vs 150kg mass
13L tank vs 11L tank
Both have ABS
Honda comes with twin airbags (never thought about that on a bike before)
So Honda has more HP, torque, fuel capacity, passenger comfort, airbags, a lower seat height for my short self and a more upright seating position.
The Kawasaki is lighter, it is likely more nimble, has more ground clearance, is a little more narrow and is prettier.
Where would you put your money?
Honda CB300f
Attachment 18160
Kawasaki Z250SL
Attachment 18161
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Re: What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?
Ok so let’s slice this a different way. We’ve eliminated a couple of contestants and not identified any serious contenders (going once, going twice…)
You’ve drawn my attention to a couple of important points. Ground clearance and torque. Let’s have a look at our field.
Model |
GC(mm) |
Wgt(Kg) |
CR |
Torque(nM) |
Price (RMB) |
CB300F* |
150 |
161 |
10.7 |
24.0 @6k |
35-38k |
250SL |
180 |
137 |
11.3 |
22.5 @8k |
29-35k |
GW250 |
165 |
183 |
11.5 |
22.0 @6.5k |
24-26k |
YS250 |
180 |
154 |
9.8 |
19.5 @6.5k |
20k |
*I am presuming the naked Honda is legally imported into China. Only the faired version, CBR300R, is listed on Sundiro’s site, but I am pretty sure I sat on one last summer at the local Honda dealership.
How much ground clearance is enough? Obviously more is better, but what’s considered seriously lacking? Poster’s here comment on the GW250’s apparent lack of ground clearance, but is 15mm less than the YS250 really that big of a deal?
How about the compression ratios? Is crap fuel out in the rural areas going to give me problems?
Experience or opinions on the pillion seating?