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New newbie in Shanghai
Hey to all.
My name is Brice.
I'm a French webdesigner in Shanghai since 5 years, and I have one question.
I got my E license recently and I'm about to buy a Raptor Regal (street) 250cc with a yellow A plate in the Suzuki moto shop Pubei Rd next of the BWM moto store.
Because they're the only shop saying they can provide a A plate for foreigners, I fear there's trouble.
There was an American guy buying a Raptor Regal (but a cruiser) too @ this shop, today, who referred me to this forum, he didn't seem to worry at all, but I am.
So here's the question:
Did any foreigner here ever bought a A plate + bike @ this Suzuki shop Pubei Rd and knows if it's no scam?
Cause the plate a big deal of money (for me), and cause u can only figure out if it's cool or not when the 1st cop stops u and check the plate #.
I only paid 1000RMB deposit yet...
THANKS
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Hey Brice, I'm sorry I'm not able to help you on this one, can I just ask you the precise address of the Suzuki shop on Pubei lu ?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Hey Fred.
The Suzuki shop I'm talking about is adjacent to the BMW shop, @ #193 on Pubei Rd, near Guilin Rd, near Shanghai South Railway Station.
浦北路193号, 桂林陆。
There's a Benelli shop a bit further, don't miss it if u go there.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Brice, welcome to the forum.
I've visited all three shops but having never bought a bike there I can't speak to their services. However, if they are promising to provide a legal plate with the bike, this will by necessity require more than just cash from you, particularly your residence permit and other documents. If they are asking only for cash, or telling you the bike must be registered in some proxy's name, I'd be deeply suspicious. If they tell you it's not legal to register under your own name as a foreigner, I'd be suspicious. Registration of a bike displacing 250cc or less with a 沪A plate is likely to cost 20,000 RMB; at least that is what I was told by someone who did a legal registration.
Can you give us a better idea of what kind of service and terms they are offering?
good luck!
cheers
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Hey, thanks for prompt answer.
Yes they asked for residence registration paper (used to be called yellow paper... it's white nowadays), they ask for my passport too (residence permit), and made a photocopy of my driving license. So that seems fine then.
Although they ask for 44000 RMB for the plate, but that's +/- what they were asking everywhere else for the 沪A plate... (42000RMB @ Harley shop & @ Jiaoji rd shops).
They say they buy the plate @ their shop's (or perso's) name, and then sell it to me @ my own name.
They say I can sell this plate later if I want.
The shop's credit card payment machine looks different, never seen one like it b4. They slide their mastercard in it first and then type the amount and then slide ur card, so I guess it's more a transfer machine (construction bank logo on it so still looks legit).
They still provide fapiao for the bike, and registration papers for the 沪A plate, but they say there won't be any fapiao for the plate, cause there just ain't.
How does that sounds to u?
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
brice,
the info they are giving you is accurate, though I had thought that the smaller-bore bikes had a lower rate for the 沪A plate. You might ask them if the price is the same for a bike under 250cc or under 200cc. There is a limited number of these plates, and Shanghai is not issuing more. And motorcycle plates CAN be transfered to a car, while a car plate cannot be transferred to a motorcycle. This is why the price tracks that of the monthly car plate auction.
a couple of cautions: if they are gathering all of your personal info, it is not likely the bike is first being registered in their shop person's name. if it's first registered in someone else's name, there will be an additional amount of transfer hassle and fees to get it into your name. and because you are not a PRC national, there will be even more confusion. only a very small number of foreigners have done this, and that shop very likely has not done any. (Mine was said to be the first in Shanghai, barely months ago.) They are technically correct that there is no fapiao for the plate, since it's something you are buying from another citizen, not the government. (You actually don't buy a plate; you buy the right to have a plate. When you go to the vehicle management department you will choose a new number from a lottery-style number generator.) But there will be receipts for all of the steps of registration, including the license transfer fee; if you pay the transfer fee you will get a fapiao; if the seller pays the transfer fee he'll get the fapiao.
And, yes, you can transfer the plate later, either with the bike or separately. That's the one thing that makes the plate price tolerable. Think of it as an investment....
cheers
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Ok, euphonius, u just made my day. :icon10:
There are indeed other fees summing up to +/- 3000RMB, I didn't understand what they were for, since insurance should be <300RMB.
About the plate's price, I needed someone knowledgeable to confirm this process is legit, and I can sell it after, so I could see it as an investment.
Thanks 4 ur concern & help.
Pure curiosity; what kind of bike did u get some months ago, and from which shop?
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
euphonius
brice,
... (Mine was said to be the first in Shanghai, barely months ago.)
Jeff,
Yours is not the first 沪A plate owned by a foreigner with residence permit, but the first issued for a JH600 in Shanghai, a momentous event in itself indeed. Following your feat, now there are a few JH600s in Shanghai legally owned by various Chinese and foreigners.
沪A plate comes in 2 different colors. 沪A Yellow is the kind you and I have. 沪A Blue is cheaper but only for engine displacement of less than 50cc (this restriction was imposed in 1996 as I read from another forum). 沪A Yellow has only a single rate.
As far as the hassle for getting the plate, my suggestion to Brice is to find someone who actually has gone through the process successfully. I am wondering if 刘志东 is willing to help.
Cheers.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Brice,
As Milton has noted, several of us in Shanghai have bought the Jialing JH600, which at 600cc is the largest-bore modern production bike made in China. (The Changjiang CJ750 is neither modern, nor in production.) There's no dealer in Shanghai, so we've bought directly from the factory in Chongqing. It's a bit north of 30,000 rmb.
Thanks, Milton, for clearing the cobwebs from my memory about the lower-tier 沪A plate, particularly that the threshold of availability is "below 50cc" rather than "below 250cc" as I'd (mis)remembered.
Milton's suggestion about engaging Liu Zhidong in the process is a good one; he's helped several of us get our new bikes directly registered and plated, and he knows the process as well as anyone. If you ask at many other places, including H-D, you'll be told that you as a foreigner simply cannot register a bike in your own name. This was true for many years, leading to a brisk trade in registrations by Chinese girlfriends, but is no longer true. (Fortunately Chinese girlfriends have other excellent uses.)
Given all that, and the fact that regardless of what bike you buy, you're on the hook for 42k+ in plating costs, you might want to think hard about your choice of bike and be sure you are getting exactly what you want. The 沪A will allow you to ride almost anywhere in Shanghai (exceptions are the gaojia and certain big avenues, but many of us know how and when these go unenforced). Our little band of JH600 riders have been experimenting with tricks for getting on the expressways, which are a wonderful way of getting out of town and into better riding areas FAST.
again, good luck sorting this out.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Whoah guys, great info here, but I'm still a bit confused.
I'm in the process of buying a Honda 125 (maybe Storm, maybe CBF), and the guys at the Honda-Sundiro shop on Zhongshan lu told me they can get plates for RMB 6,000. So of course I guess it's waidi plates. Could you please confirm that I can (legally of course) use the bike with waidi plates inside the inner ring on weekends at least ?
And I'm really interested in your tricks to know when those rules are not enforced (evenings after XPM, others things to know ? ;-) ) !
Thanks for the answers !
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
euphonius,
I just wanted to know I wasn't the only one foreigner told he can get a A plate which would have been highly suspicious.
U're right I decided quite fast on this 250 Raptor Regal bike, but it's my 1st bike above 125cc, and I don't have very accurate needs since almost no moto experience. I'm sure I'll like it. If any wrong I'll tune it...
I'll follow up here and let u know how things went with this shop, after I get (hopefully successfully) controlled by cops, and how's the bike behaving.
Thank u, and milton for ur help.
Fred,
Recently things got worse regarding these "outside ring" plates, I know from those sources that:
(CCTV)
If parked in the inner ring, bikes with no inner plates can be confiscated by police, I don't know how u can get it back then.
(moto shop owner & different drivers)
If driving inside the inner ring, u only expose urself to a 200 RMB fine, but the bike may be confiscated for 24 to 48 hours, u can get it back after at the police station. Fine & confiscation depends chiefly on the cop u face and ur attitude.
(moto shop owner)
If the bike's plate is from X, they can send the bike to X if they want and u can only get it back in X (reason why not too far away plates are still a good investment).
(me driving 4 years inside ring with no plate)
It's only police "tolerance" that gets softer after 8, on week ends, and away from the "hot spots" (xujiahue, people square, xintiandi, etc...), the closer from the ring the better, but u legally CAN'T be inside without inner ring plates.
Regardless of when, while most cops won't even look at u and while some will kindly answer u if u ask ur way, if u end up stuck front of the wrong one he'll give u all the trouble he can, run straight to u, chase u if u evade, hit u if u evade too close.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Dear Fred,
I've seen plenty of guys riding waidi plated bikes inside the inner ring, but they are taking chances. They tend to slink through smaller streets, and avoid major throughfares. Then again, all the juiced-up scooters blazing through town don't even bother with legal plates, and are brazenly illegal. Cops don't seem even to flinch.
There's no way that 6,000 rmb will buy you anything but a fake plate or a waidi plate or a fake waidi plate, which is a bigger guarantee of trouble should the police decide to crack down. At least with a genuine yellow 沪C plate, which allows you to ride anywhere OUTSIDE the inner ring, your worst-case scenario inside the ring is probably a 200 RMB fine. You'd have to rack up a lot of those before it cost you more than 42,000 for a 沪A plate!
As for how to ride in forbidden places like the gaojia and major avenues: 1) be foreign, 2) tuck in behind other vehicles so you are not visible to traffic police during red lights, 3) choose your route through intersections so as not to be within arm's reach of the traffic police, 4) look the other way as if you didn't notice when you know they are signaling for you to stop. There are plenty of places to get on the gaojia where there is little or no control. You might get stopped once you are there and riding through central Shanghai, but generally they just tell you to get off, though I think it helps to be a foreigner. It's also pretty easy to get on the expressways if you have a big enough bike, don't take "no" for an answer, and squeeze past the closed gate. Be polite, and don't argue. Act confused, or just say, in Chinese, "it's okay, I can look after my own safety" while you roll on. There's rarely a problem getting OFF the expressways; it's getting on that is slightly confrontational. I'm not sure I'd want to ride a 125 or even a 250 on the expressways, however.
good luck and cheers
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Thanks a lot for the answers guys.
For some strange reason I thought it was legal to ride with a waidi plate downtown during the weekends, well...
Anyway I didn't really plan to go on the gaojia with a 125, but below them, on the Yan'an for example. I'll need to start checking which streets are legally ok for bikes, damned... ;-))
Euphonius, would you know the price range for a real waidi (yellow) plate of a city close to Shanghai (Suzhou, Hangzhou) ? Just to check what the guys at the Honda shop are telling me.
Brice, I don't even want to know how do you know they will hit you if you're trying to evade and they are close... ;-))
Last question guys : the inner ring refers to which street/gaojia/expressway : the waihuan (A20) or the neihuan (Zhongshan lu) ? Literally speaking inner is nei, so I think I know, but just want to confirm.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
I'd like to clarify a couple things:
1. Waidi plate is not legally allowed at all to enter Shanghai, let alone the inner ring. This regulation has been rigoriously enforced during the World Expo, which is still going on now. Some of my Chinese friends with waidi plate had to be very creative in finding a way in last few times when we toured around getting outside of Shanghai. (Getting out is much easier than coming back in). Luckily the Expo has less than a month to go.
2. Inner ring has never been a demarcation of any kind as far as motorcycles are concerned. The range of allowed access for 沪C plate depends on the district you want to go, and not on inside of outside of the inner ring. For example, sometimes the inner ring cuts through a district, such as LuWan, in which case even 沪C is not officially allowed on that section of the inner ring.
Hope these points help.
Cheers!
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Hey Brice, do you have some news from the Suzuki shop about the plates, do you know how long it will take them to get the plates ?
I went today to this shop, just to check what they have, and they told me the same thing about the price(RMB 44,000 for the yellow A plates) and the process. They said I could sell the plates back to them when I'll be leaving China, at the price then (maybe lower, maybe higher). But I figure that if I want to sell the bike too, I'd rather sell the whole, and not a bike without plates.
I must admit I liked their GSX 125. Great, one more 125 bike to choose from, between the Honda Storm, the Honda CBF, the Yamaha YBR and now this one ! :lol8:
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
braillce
Hey to all.
My name is Brice.
I'm a French webdesigner in Shanghai since 5 years, and I have one question.
I got my E license recently and I'm about to buy a Raptor Regal (street) 250cc with a yellow A plate in the Suzuki moto shop Pubei Rd next of the BWM moto store.
Because they're the only shop saying they can provide a A plate for foreigners, I fear there's trouble.
There was an American guy buying a Raptor Regal (but a cruiser) too @ this shop, today, who referred me to this forum, he didn't seem to worry at all, but I am.
So here's the question:
Did any foreigner here ever bought a A plate + bike @ this Suzuki shop Pubei Rd and knows if it's no scam?
Cause the plate a big deal of money (for me), and cause u can only figure out if it's cool or not when the 1st cop stops u and check the plate #.
I only paid 1000RMB deposit yet...
THANKS
Hey Brice, that was me getting the Raptor 250. I already saw the plate on the bike and I should be getting my bike tomorrow or the day after, depending on the weather. I bought the bike on 10/4 and they started the registration process on the 8th. When you saw me I was passing them my passport and temporary residence permit. I had my driver, a very sharp shanghainese negotiate with them and the process seems legit. Basically they had to transfer the plate to their name, then to my name with the final plate name under me, hence the need for my proof of residency and the need for a chinese name. If you want you can hold off a little while and see if I get into trouble, since I paid for it already. Ha. I will take a look at the paperwork and let you know.
The police are checking for plates. One checkpoint is at Maoming Lu and Changle Lu and they check around 5 to 8pm during rush hour. Many places are not allowing non-shanghai plates to get gas anymore. There are signs at the gas station and this is the new law. The communist government is smart. They may not be able to catch you but they can control whether you get gas or not.
Also, supposedly non-plated bikes will get towed and impounded (but I would only worry about that if you see the yellow tow trucks with other bikes on them).
From my understanding any bike over 80 cc needs a yellow plate. Under 80cc is blue plate. I have heard the figure at 50cc but it doesn't matter to me since I am going to be riding 250cc so it's a yellow plate for sure. Yellow plates I have been quoted 42-44k. Blue plates are half but non-transferrable.
The other fees were the local tax (I can't remember the amount but I think 10-13%) and various other fees. When I almost got my plate from the Yamaha dealership for my scooter I was quoted the same fees so I felt pretty confident there wasn't anything strange going on.
I do believe the shop has some back channels to get things done as I asked them if I could modify my bike and pass the government bike inspection (every 2 years). They said I could modify it as I wished and they could take the bike to get inspected for me and it would pass. I would take, of course, is a fee to pay them. In theory, modifications to the bike, especially lights, horns, and exhausts, are prohibited.
Hope this helps...
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Oh Yes, to add. My scooter was impounded recently for a parking violation. I had a lot of trouble getting it out, since I didn't have plates or a drivers license. I had to get someone to help me otherwise it may have taken 20 days or more to get my scooter back. Rumor has it things are going to get worse for non-plated vehicles AFTER the expo since there law enforcement will have more time on their hands. (Plus SH gov needs new sources of revenue to line their pockets, huh).
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Wrangler makes an important point about legal registration by foreigners -- the vehicle management bureau computers accept only chinese names, not foreign names, so you have to have a legal document showing your legal name in chinese. this is a problem if you have just a foreign passport and a residence permit, since the residence permit only repeats your foreign name, not your Chinese name, if you have one. Some people have managed to use their police registration papers, which for the convenience of the police will list your (optional) Chinese name in addition to your foreign name and passport number, thus linking your two names so the vehicle management bureau will accept that you are one in the same person. The best form of ID for this is the Shanghai Residence Card, which is the closest thing to a "hukou" for a foreigner. It's not too difficult to get, but few foreigners even know about them, or how to get them. I've covered this in some detail in a separate thread, which anyone registering a bike in Shanghai should probably read.
good luck and cheers...
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
@ wrangler,
I was hoping u would show up and let me know how things are going for u.
Thanks for following up.
U're right, I'll wait a little bit before to give them more $, and check carefully for ur following posts.
Since u already paid ;)
@ euphonius,
The Suzuki shop was ok with just my Chinese E license for making the plate.
My Chinese name comes from my Alien Employment Permit delivered by my company, this AEP was required for me to make that E License though, so the Shanghai card is a workable though little known option for who has no AEP and wants to get a Driving License or a Vehicle Plate.
The shop won't even require to see ur Driving E/D license if u present an official ID doc with ur Chinese name though...
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Bits of misinformation here in the thread...
Some clarification:
Blue plate - *cannot* be transferred to car plate, cannot carry passengers. Must drive in Bike lane.
Yellow plate - can be transferred to become a car plate, can carry a passenger. Must drive in car lane.
沪A is the only plate type (blue / yellow) that can legally drive inside Shanghai all areas.
沪C can only drive on the outside of the outer ringround - so Minhang, places like that.
Driving any waidi plate is illegal inside Shanghai.
No ringroad or freeway driving for motorbikes, only G roads if you want to go out of the city.
Consequences -
No plate + no licence - you're really fucked.
No plate:
Accident - you're fucked.
Police stop - bike confiscated, may go to jail and be deported, depending if you get your taiwanese girlfriend to give policeman lip. 3 guesses to whom I refer..
Waidi plate:
Accident.. variable.
Police stop - fine 200rmb. Bike possibly confiscated if they're feeling obnoxious but can get back within short period of time and some running around.
Proper plate:
Accident.. variable, but you'll have more law on your side.
Police stop - need papers, will be ok.
You'll also need to have a Employment Permit older than 1 year to register for the plate / bike.
And yeah, totally not the first foreigner to do this, we were doing this 15 years ago here legally.
Ask Butch about his bike(s)...
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
I should be picking up my bike tomorrow or next week. I don't have my license now (Testing for part 1 riders test next week) so am hesitant to ride around so no rush to get the bike. So I guess I will just ride my scooter fully illegal for now.
Regarding chinese name. I don't have any official documents showing my chinese name. But when I went to get my driver's license converted from my US license they required a chinese name, with no other verification. Ever since then I have been using my Chinese driver's license as verification of my Chinese name.
Will let you know more when I get my bike.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Hi !
I've just visited this forum. Happy to get acquainted with you. Thanks.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wrangler
Regarding chinese name. I don't have any official documents showing my chinese name. But when I went to get my driver's license converted from my US license they required a chinese name, with no other verification. Ever since then I have been using my Chinese driver's license as verification of my Chinese name.
I have used my Chinese license as verification of my name, but it didn't help when I purchased my bike. I had to get an official name translation before they would process the registration.
Good luck
Cheers!
ChinaV
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChinaV
I have used my Chinese license as verification of my name, but it didn't help when I purchased my bike. I had to get an official name translation before they would process the registration.
Good luck
Cheers!
ChinaV
Just 20 fen worth regarding Shanghai, MotoKai recently managed to get plated in Shanghai in his own name using some form of document that included both his Chinese and English names -- probably his police household registration document, which does list both names. I do not think MotoKai used the Shanghai Residence Card, which is the best ID for this purpose. So there does seem to be some flexibility.
The problem with the Chinese driver's license is that it is ONLY in Chinese, and does not include your foreign name (in English). So your residence permit, which is only in your foreign name, will not match your driver's license, which is only in Chinese.
cheers
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
euphonius
The problem with the Chinese driver's license is that it is ONLY in Chinese, and does not include your foreign name (in English). So your residence permit, which is only in your foreign name, will not match your driver's license, which is only in Chinese.
cheers
Just checked my 上海市居住证 (shanghai Residence Card) , which does bear both my foreign name and my Chinese name.
But your suggestion for utilizing the "police household registration document" (referred to as "黄单" I believe, the form which you are supposed to obtain from the police station when you first arrive.) is a good one. Make sure you register both names in the 黄单, which is not automatic. I remember that one time I have to go back to the police station to get a new form with both names recorded.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
There might be the chance you argue that the Passport No on the Residence certificate resembles the Driving License Number. If both made recently with same passport. New passport with new passport number and you are back to square one...
My bike is registered in a mix of Chinese and Foreign Name.
At the end its always worth a reasonable try, as none of these rules are engraved in stone, its most likely some rubberlike fluffy stuff. (I assume Felix is more adept with these substances) :riding:
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andre555
I assume Felix is more adept with these substances
Wait, what???
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
You know, just refeering to certain proffessional expierence of yours :mwink:
Btw. how is relocation to Anfu Lu going? My first apartment was just behind the Arts Theatre - 40sqm roof terrasse on the 16th floor...fond memories, I can tell you!
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Oh yeah, i forgot that's what i do! Thank you for the reminder!
Relocation is happening at the end of this month so i should really start looking for a place! I don't suppose your place is still availble? I think it would just about do.
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Re: New newbie in Shanghai
Brice, I picked up bike with the plate and the paperwork seems all in order. My chinese name is on the vehicle registration card. I must say it is very exciting to get the bike and the plate. Now, to finish the course and tests for my license! Love to hear how you find your bike. I will do a report on my bike later.