Visibility

Hi everyone, I ride a RMR125 SM, and was wondering if anyone els has been suffering 'invisible bike syndrome'?.
Basically, I also ride a VFR800, and when I'm on that, people hardly ever pull out on me. But on the RMR, it happens at least twice every ride, and today for the second time I've actually hit a car that pulled out! It was low speed and I'd almost emergency stopped and just nudged her bonnet with my tyre, so no one hurt and nothing damaged.The previous time I swerved around a car and my knee bounced off the front wing.Again, no injury or damage ( I had knee armour on).
Its seems that people who pull out fall in to two camps:
1) They simply don't see me ( the driver this morning claimed this)
2) They see me, and pull out anyway!
I think the problem is that the bike has a narrow frontal area, and also the enduro headlight gives the impression of a small, learner , and therefore slow moving machine.Whilst it is indeed small, I am not a learner and not always going that slow!
To address this I always wear a hi-viz vest and keep the dipped beam on, and also try to position myself in the road for maximum visibility.And I've put a race number and reflective decals on the headlight cowl.I'm also quite a wide bloke, so I'm not sure how I can still seem 'invisible'.But clearly this is not enough!
One idea I have had is to swap the enduro light for a traditional round headlight, as I think this will give the impression of a bigger bike, and thus deter people from pulling out.
Any thoughts?

Kick their damned mirrors off bloke ...:gun_bandana:

Be natural and show a bit of road rage ...lol !:thumbsup:

It's all status, the pricier your bike looks, the less likely they will be to pull out on you! :gun_bandana:

I've tried the road rage approach and whilst temporarily satisfying, it deosn't prevent the incidents happening in the first place, and the red mist makes my ride more dangerous after the event!Plus, I was starting to get more and more bold in my response to stupid drivers, i.e chasing them down, blocking their path and remonstrating with them. It was getting to the point where I felt it was only a matter of time before I got physical with one. This would be bad because I'm a fairly big bloke and I box, so although not worried about coming off worse, I was worried about possibly being done for assault! I made a promise to myself at New Year to cool down and stop getting so worked up, which I'm managing to keep to so far:icon10:.So what I'm really looking for is prevention rather than revenge!

Good point about status - that's why I reckon a round headlamp might be a good idea.I have a new chrome one in my garage that was for an abandoned cafe racer project, so if I put that on, combined with the gold USD forks it should make the front look more classy.The bike is in good condition, generally clean, and I always wear proper good quality riding gear, so I shouldn't give the impression of being an impoverished teeanage learner. I really think its the Enduro that's the root of issue.
Only issue is that I use the bike off road occasionally, so I'll have to fabricate a removable metal mesh cover for dirt riding.

I think the problem with small bikes (besides the size itself) is it's harder for cage drivers to judge the speed of a tiny object which is more likely to blend into the background.

Two possible solutions are:

1) Get a head-light modulator that automatically pulses your headlight during the daytime. In some countries this may not be legal though so you need to check with local regulations.

2) Wear a blaze orange safety/commuting vest. I got a Joe Rocket mesh jacket with a fold away blaze orange vest section which I wear pretty much all the time in the summer if it's not raining (and even in the rain if it's hot enough outside). Nice thing about it is you're VERY visible day or night (it has reflectors as well) and while car drivers can see you very well, the police think you're invisible. :thumbsup:

http://www.joerocket.com/WebImages/3..._Jacket300.jpg

You can of course get simple plain orange vests for much less. Just my .02. :icon10:

CC

Good point Crazy Carl, that is something I always do anyway though.I wear a very bright Respro Yellow and Orange Hi Viz vest over my jacket whenever I'm riding.Its highly visible (not surprisingly!) with refelective sections. So really its only the headlight issue that I can address!

Wow...you are wearing a hi-vis vest and that is still happening??? I wear a hi-vis yellow helmet and it helps some, but this happens to all of us.

Two things that I do to improve my chances of being seen are both based on the fact that most people key on movement and moving things in traffic. To that end, I loosen up the bolts that hold my headlight so that it vibrates more than normal. It's a little annoying at night but it sure gets noticed more during the day. Also, when I have an oncoming turner or suspect someone entering from the side, I "waggle" the bars slightly to give them some movement to key on.

Still, you'd be wise to practice panic stops. Also, alot of US scooterist and motorcyclist have been adding Stebel air horns to their rides. They're cheap, compact, and put out 130Db. But, you can't rely on a horn unless you see the problem coming. The pipe on my Lambretta is louder than it's horn.

Perhaps you should get one of those really bright yellow police jackets and wear a white helmet...not many folks will pull out in front of a "cop". Have you ever seen the hi-vis riding gear made by Aerostitch? Great stuff

Peej

Those headlights dipped beams are useless for visibility. Try running on full beam instead.

I don't think it's the size of the bike. In fact the other day I caught sight of myself on the back of a very shiny van and thought how agressive and imposing the bike looked.
My first thought was: What's that?. Who's that handsome virile chap?...:icon10:

Based on the time I've spent admiring myself in the back of cars stopped in front of me, I know the look is exaggerated by the "House of Mirrors" effect you can get off the curved backs...makes everything look wider.

I think what we're talking about here is the car operator's perspective at a distance. Taking an extreme example, if a yellow QingQi200 and a yellow GoldWing were both, let's say, 100m away from a driver, I think there'd be no question which one would be more obvious noticable and imposing. The Gold Wings larger head lights and ample Tupperware area (combined with the color) would make for a more visually prominent object.

Now if the QingQi had modulating headlights, and both bikes were at the limits of a person's visual acuity, then I would actually give it to the flashing headlights simply because the monkey in us all recognizes flashing/shiney things. :icon10:

CC

Loud horns help a lot. I have two car horns wired up to my bike and they scare the bejeezus out of people when I honk them. That and loud pipes so they can hear you coming ahead of time.

Not going to help for the idiots in the blue trucks pulling onto the highway without looking but infinitely better than knocking off a taxi's side view mirror after they cut you off.

:riding:yes it seems a problem anywhere in the world ...not being seen or identified on the road...

Funny how people go for hi-visibility gear ,and think that will make it safe..a bit of the old Volvo syndrome (i'm safe in here screw everone else) there I feel..doesn't work...

Strangely enough in Australia cars rarely pull out in front of 1% bikers/bikies dressed in black open face helmets flannel shirts and black leather vests...:naughty:
I read somewhere that a report claimed it was because people are scared shitless of these guys where as the Motorcyclist wearing all the safety gear and bright safety vis stuff does not register as a threat to the average low IQ car driver..so they pull out..:rolleyes1:
Maybe all riders need to dress up like bad arse bikers to survive ?:eekers:

:riding:safe ..everone...Defensive Riding Techniques are the real answer..loud horns are usually used when it is too late...and loud pipes may sound sweet to us but give the average numbnuted citizen the shits cause it blocks the sound from their CD player..or cuts into their mobile phone conversation...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpPeej

Wow...you are wearing a hi-vis vest and that is still happening??? I wear a hi-vis yellow helmet and it helps some, but this happens to all of us.

Two things that I do to improve my chances of being seen are both based on the fact that most people key on movement and moving things in traffic. To that end, I loosen up the bolts that hold my headlight so that it vibrates more than normal. It's a little annoying at night but it sure gets noticed more during the day. Also, when I have an oncoming turner or suspect someone entering from the side, I "waggle" the bars slightly to give them some movement to key on.

Still, you'd be wise to practice panic stops. Also, alot of US scooterist and motorcyclist have been adding Stebel air horns to their rides. They're cheap, compact, and put out 130Db. But, you can't rely on a horn unless you see the problem coming. The pipe on my Lambretta is louder than it's horn.

Perhaps you should get one of those really bright yellow police jackets and wear a white helmet...not many folks will pull out in front of a "cop". Have you ever seen the hi-vis riding gear made by Aerostitch? Great stuff

Peej

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Yeah as well as the Hi viz I also do the bar waggle and move around on the road to trigger movement detection. Funny you mention the cop impersonation thing - on my silver VFR, with my balck jacket with yelllow hi viz vest and silver flip up lid, a lot of people do mistake me for a traffic cop (They mysteriously slow down)! I also used to ride a 94 CBR600 which I sprayed white and put reflective yellow and blue on, and that definitely got people to behave!Sadly, that bike has now died, and I wouldn't want to sticker up my VFR.But I also realised that if you look like Police, they will slow down and hinder you,the best thing to look like is a bike Paramedic. I'm a member of St John Ambulance, and when I ride my Silver VFR to Duities with my St John Ambulance Hi Viz jacket on (complete with green/white checkering), people get out of the way.But I can't wear that jacket in daily use because St John Ambulance don't want that the negative publicity that it would attract ( I don't always, ahem, obey speed limits;-)). Unfortunately though, no amount of Hi Viz gear and white helmet is going to confince a driver that my Quinqi 125 is a Police or Paramedic bike!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

Those headlights dipped beams are useless for visibility. Try running on full beam instead.

I don't think it's the size of the bike. In fact the other day I caught sight of myself on the back of a very shiny van and thought how agressive and imposing the bike looked.
My first thought was: What's that?. Who's that handsome virile chap?...:icon10:

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I know what you mean about the headlight on dipped, in fact I reached that same conclusion yesterday and on my ride home used full beam. It didn't seem to blind anyone (on my VFR doing that infuriates drivers!), and I must admit that it seemed to make the bike more visible.No one pulled out, and few cars pulled in to let me go by.
I have also been hatching a cunning plan involving a flyscreen - I have an old mudguard from an SV650 that after a bit of butchering , I should be able to attach as a tall bikini fairing above the light. It gives the front the appearance of a bigger, more expensive machine - looks similar to the front of the KTM advenure bikes.Visibilty aside, I was thinking of doing this anyway to deflect water spray from my upper body in wet weather. Of course, if I do this mod successfully, I will post up pics!

Well, in what has turned out to be another resounding success, I have replaced the enduro light with a traditional round light with an attached flyscreen. I am very happy as I came up with the idea in about 30 mins, and the whole thing cost me nothing as all the bits I used were made from stuff I've had lurking in my garage for a couple of years.:icon10:
I've posted pics in the Modifications section, heres a link:

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030

IMO it makes the front of the bike look like a bigger, more expensive machine,and a quick 5 minute test ride confirmed that it has indeed lifted the 'invisibilty cloak' somewhat - a car went to pull out on me on a roundabout, saw me and abruptly hit the anchors. I'm positive that with the enduro headlight, the car would have pulled out anyway.Heres another close up pic:

Nice job Ed, It does make the bike look bigger. And the little flyscreen looks good.

And Mythbuster...I like in Milwaukee Wisconsin...half of the population here looks like bad@ss bikers! But your right to say that the norms are scared of us.

Peej

Looks better actually but I like old fashioned machine looks anyway..

Except for the Strom...

i used to have a 150 scooter before i got my XTR. this was my solution to make it more visible:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...ween08020s.jpg

i covered it entirely in that black/yellow tape you find everywhere in china. it looked amazing! (the picture is taken on halloween, my girlfriend and i usually dress like normal humans)

I've just fitted a Bi Xenon HID headlight conversion to my Sinnis Apache 125, so bright it gets attention from other road users. Cut the 'pull out on me' drivers to almost zero :riding: