SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA

Zuma is proud to announce that Shineray Motorcycles Chongqing has appointed us Zuma Cycles Pty Ltd its National distributor for the Australian Market. Zuma has been a pioneer of importing Chinese motorcycles into Australia ever since 2000, and are overjoyed at being given the responsibility of distributing there X2 dirt bike range, which for the first time can be regarded as a serious contender to the Japanese and European MX, Enduro and Motard Models.
The all new XY250GY-2 MX is available now, and the ECE homologated Enduro and Motard models arrive soon. These models use the first Liquid-Cooled 250cc DOHC 4 valve four stroke engine with six speed transmission to be made in China, producing over 20Kw. You can view this bike at www.zuma.com.au

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZUMA MOTORCYCLES

Zuma is proud to announce that Shineray Motorcycles Chongqing has appointed us Zuma Cycles Pty Ltd its National distributor for the Australian Market. Zuma has been a pioneer of importing Chinese motorcycles into Australia ever since 2000, and are overjoyed at being given the responsibility of distributing there X2 dirt bike range, which for the first time can be regarded as a serious contender to the Japanese and European MX, Enduro and Motard Models.
The all new XY250GY-2 MX is available now, and the ECE homologated Enduro and Motard models arrive soon. These models use the first Liquid-Cooled 250cc DOHC 4 valve four stroke engine with six speed transmission to be made in China, producing over 20Kw. You can view this bike at www.zuma.com.au

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well, maybe i am too stupid for that... but i can only find your air cooled bikes there...

Zuma,

Congrats on your new working relationship! I think you've got one of the better line-ups of all the possible manufacturers in China. Where are you located in Oz?

Also, feel free to put a more a detailed post in the "dealers" section of the forum. :thumbsup:

Heiri,

The Zuma XY-250GY-2 is the same as the Shineray X2 you've heard about in China. It's a reborn NX-250 engine and is water-cooled. You can just see the silver radiator peeking out in the upper right hand corner of the picture below.

Attachment 1354

:riding:,
CC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrazyCarl

Zuma,

Congrats on your new working relationship! I think you've got one of the better line-ups of all the possible manufacturers in China. Where are you located in Oz?

Also, feel free to put a more a detailed post in the "dealers" section of the forum. :thumbsup:

Heiri,

The Zuma XY-250GY-2 is the same as the Shineray X2 you've heard about in China. It's a reborn NX-250 engine and is water-cooled. You can just see the silver radiator peeking out in the upper right hand corner of the picture below.

Attachment 1354

:riding:,

CC

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i am to stupid! thanks carl - but since i need an enduro (street ready) i looked just at the other bikes it seems... got it now - and hope to get them -street legal- in china!

Hi Heiri

Only click on http://www.zuma.com.au or copy and paste the address into your browser as our new website has just gone up and there are still many links on the net, that will open our old website.

Mick

Hi Carl

Thankyou for the positive reply. Shineray has spent a lot of money on this venture and have come up with a great package. When i get some time i will be posting images. We are located in Wollongong NSW, which is 80Km south of Sydney City.

Mick

Wish you luck with the business mate, I hope you build and support your imports better than Kinlon do here. And a beef with your website, personally I don't bother to follow up with sites that say 'ask for a quote'. I am looking for a genny and a pump as well as the usual accessories and spares as I go along, and another bigger bike later - I want to compare specifications and prices, not just pictures! I think it will lose you business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

Wish you luck with the business mate, I hope you build and support your imports better than Kinlon do here. And a beef with your website, personally I don't bother to follow up with sites that say 'ask for a quote'. I am looking for a genny and a pump as well as the usual accessories and spares as I go along, and another bigger bike later - I want to compare specifications and prices, not just pictures! I think it will lose you business.

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Thankyou for the feedback, will take that on board. Regards Mick

Well, no more from these folks since then, lets hope they are doing OK. They still don't have any prices at all on the website which is bloody stupid to my thinking - I sent a couple of friends to their website for this and that and had a look again (for a generator and a water pump which they also do) for myself. I got a few 'straight-up' prices from other importers of similar machinery as did my friends (who wanted a kids' motocross bike and a farm bike plus all the gear ) so my friends didn't bother 'asking for a quote'. Potential sales lost as they have since bought 3 bikes and all the riding gear plus a trailer. And one of those bloody internet forms wanting obligatory and intrusive 'personal details' if you DO just want to send an email to them to ask about something. So, again, I didn't bother either. NOT GOOD BUSINESS.

We traditionally haven't advertised prices due to the nature of the Chinese bike market being so cut throat. We have always only ever imported the higher quality level bikes from China which inherently are more expensive to buy, and more costly to sell, so not posting prices allows us to explain this point after we obtain an enquiry via the website which asks for Post code so we can supply a freight quote also. This has served us well for 10 years, how ever doesn't please all. The All New Shineray XY250GY-2 retails for $3999.00 and before you say my god that is a lot of money for a Chinese bike, the XY250GY is not just any Chinese MX bike; it is the only true example of a high performance MX bike to be compared with the major brands. Yesterday we finished our video shoot at Mt Kembla MX circuit which will show case the Shineray XY250GY's full potential and dispel the negativity that exists for Chinese bikes. Video will be posted on YouTube in the not too distant future.

It sounds like a good bike indeed, but to say it is the ONLY chinese that can compare is a bit arrogant. The LD450 (or whatever it's called in other coutries) seems to be impressing a lot of people too.

And i agree totally with Jape, if i can't get basic info like the price from a website and it's even a hassle to email to find out, i'm just not going to bother. Whatever your reasons are, most people browsing your website will see bikes and go "how much?". If they don't have an answer after a few seconds they'll probably move on and forget.

It is your business and your choice but I still disagree strongly. I think your position is negative and defensive. As I said, you lost a good sale of up to 3 machines you could have had via my reading your post here alone. They got what they wanted elsewhere - yes, Chinese and yes, cheap and yes, good enough value. You can put the defensive bit about prices on your website and let intelligent people make the decision for themselves. Most that read these forums with a purchase in mind would do their research, read reports and reviews and then look for a local dealer. You simply need to support the machine, participate in forums like this, get into magazines like CC's and half your job is done. You will also get intelligent and experienced feedback.
Have you read the J600 threads? They show just what committed riders can contribute and also in part how good dealers work with such riders and build a small but growing market for themselves.

I have an idea what the prices are and should be, upfront pricing is not imperative.

I think the water cooled 250 bikes are hard sells too much to fast, in that the singles are not even proven and the support of those sketchy.

To be practical the 250 should be minimal margins through the introduction and the 200cc is missing from the line, the 200cc does not have the R&D cost behind them and have higher potential margins.

Since the AUS $ is near the US $, then why not build on the higher margin bikes like this one. Then why limit your line to dirt?

The 250 DOHC wholesales for $2,350.00 plus freight, that looks like about $1,500.00 profit? Are there other fees? Something in Australia that makes it cost more?

The 200cc bike like this one. That wholesales for $870.00 it could be sold for $2,000.00?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...eray200php.jpg It would not sell in the USA for that though not even $1,800.00 unless that included shipping.

The water cooled 250 sells for $2,750.00 in the USA and not that well. Why is it $1,000.00 more in Australia? Not the same bike but the same design basically, pitsterpro sells a 250cc water cooled its basically the same bike. Are they getting them for less then $2,350.00...they must be.

What’s the price out of the port on those? If I would say I want disclosure then I actually want it all disclosed, I respect that the distributor has to make money…but without knowing the bottom lines it all makes people wonder?

The problem is these getting imported and sold direct, people can sometimes buy these for the price a dealer should be paying. That is the cut throat part, then the less the distributor does...the less it costs them to operate, the customer get basically a delivery nothing else.

If I bought a 200cc from shineray and it held up, then I would talk it up and others would hear that and maybe buy them a very good bike for very good price. Then maybe others would pay more to get the 250 version?

But then there is the street bikes and they are not as costly as the water-cooled either.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ay200php-1.gif

That one has a wholesale price of $1,180.00.…I think you can tack on $1,000.00 to the bikes costs and that’s it….if you cannot operate on that as a margin you have to leave the market….many have or sell more units. Half as much profit twice as many sales?

I would think that the two 200cc bikes would sell well, the motard for $1,750.00 and the street bike for $2,200.00 then dealer discounts should be what $500.00? That’s about it your never going to get anywhere unless you have the lowest prices.

Do distributors add more then $500.00 to each unit in value? The low volumes is what it is...lots and lots of people doing a few....whoever can get to be the biggest would do better it is a matter of economy of scale.

This is the bike it only $870.00 wholesale.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...0endurophp.jpg
The bike has a 163fml engine a 200cc SOHC air cooled engine that has parts and documentation readily available. .

Then this one has a 232cc engine 169YMM-A wholesale price $1,580.00

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ineray250r.gif

Naked version of that street bike $1,220.00



A 200cc version of it $1,180.00 and it comes with the same 163FML SOHC as the dual sport.

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ay200php-1.gif


Video of 250R version....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5bWEAMhRkQ

It’s interesting how the use of pop music can affect a persons desire for a product or not?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvI4C1BGa1A

They are asking $3,660.00 for that bike in Argentina!


The Argentinean seem to think it vibrates too much on the high end and it has a hollow look to the fairing….ya think? It has nothing really inside the fairing.

But $3,360.00 American oh no that’s too much….. It also has no need for fairing its no race bike, it also does not need the swept down handlebars its a poser. Wonder why it vibrates too much it supposed to have a balance shaft.

Naked version with an upright riding position you would think is more appropriate? I thought only American like cheese that much?

It’s sad that’s a decent commuter bike…or it could be, but they add some fairing and then cheese it up…falling under your spell and can’t slow down? Ironic does not go that fast?


No cheese and for less then $2,500.00 maybe?

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...5-roadwind.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

Then this one has a 232cc engine 169YMM-A wholesale price $1,580.00
Naked version of that street bike $1,220.00

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Thanks for that MJH, that 250R naked looks good but on the website it doesn't show with EEC tag, I will look into it and the pricing in Australia further.

That machine seems to be taking a 100kg rider OK in the (Swiss/German?) video ... it should last on a run with a fair load then!

It has EEC on the Shineray site.
http://www.shineray-atv.com/dir.asp

But it also does not say EPA and they are?

But keep in mind some may be and some may not be, some models may be and some may not and they are notorious for shipping the wrong models and then saying ooops.

You can buy only one but the price is much higher,

Price FOB china is $1,220.00 plus a single unit order surcharge of $610.00

$1,830.00 FOB Shanghais or Ningbo.

Then you incur freight and whatever charges at the port. I am fairly confident I could get one delivered to me for under $2,500.00.

Yes, I would now consider that myself because of the very large markups. Where are you based?

The dealers would get at least 10 at a time so get at base price.

The EPA is Environmental Protection Authority

The Shineray site has the 'sports' 250 shown as 250A EEC
and the 'naked' as plain 250 without EEC but as you say, they probably have all variations available.

- for import into Aus. they would have some sort of approval and also probably what is called LAMS or 'Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme' in some models - similar to the Daelim Roadwind also available here at 249cc and also overpriced at nearly $5000.

One problem in Aus. is we sometimes get bikes from last year or before badged as 'latest model' or as current year which of course they are but only in Aus.!

Elsewhere there may be a later model/different engine size/improvement not yet approved or imported here. And the Chinese manufacturers can be a wee bit nefarious, they can slightly change specification, re-badge and break a so-called 'exclusive' deal so the dealer is no longer sole supplier/importer etc. etc. etc.

Trouble is, word of mouth lumps them all together and when the dealer is paranoid or not completely upfront they lose any credibility.

Maybe our dealer (original poster) will let us know some answers to these points, especially on price - but then again maybe not ....

It is a Daelim….evidently or it seems that Shineray is the OEM or they have the designs for some reason they are identical.

$5,000.00?

http://www.daelim.com.au/index.html

Korean designs made in china, that does not fit well with the $5,000.00 price.

Oh you know what the Daelim VJ250 is getting the water cooled 250 four valve with FI.

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automo...=true&AdOnTop=

Again, nice bike but $au 6500 .... plus stamp duty and on-road costs!

I can get a new Honda VT750 locally for $8900 plus costs ... and that is a 'made in japan' Honda what is more - so why wouldn't I save and get three times the bike for half as much again?

I think some of these dealers are being stupid, they will get a few sales and then lose out as usual before creating any real market, hopefully having purchased themselves a nice big house somewhere. There are always enough fools wanting a flash-looking machine will buy from them.

$5,999.00 in New Zealand
http://www.recreationalvehicles.co.n...spx?ID=1069564

Too much here in the USA; that bike is not worth that much….it would never even be considered at that price.

The Hyosung GT250R sells for $3,799.00 http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/prod...e&model=GT250R

The Kawasaki Ninja 250R $3,999.00
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pro...ns.aspx?id=359

Then you have the Meggelli 250R $3,399.00
http://www.bennche.com/product/Megelli_250r.htm

All things being equal what do those models sell for comparably in Australia?

Daelim is unknown in the USA if they offered that bike here it would have to be priced well beneath these other similar bikes.

I think that the 232cc naked model would sell if priced close to $2,300.00?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...hineray250.jpg

Hyosung GT250R $au 6990
Kawasaki Ninja 250R $au 7499
Meggelli 250R $au 5000 - hard to find, this is a qlink UK/JAP/China mix apparently?

I shall stick to the Kinlon, got it for $2000, it will do for now.

I was in fact going to buy the naked Shineray before my China trip and take a run of a couple thousand Km as a practice for gear and well, me - but the reviews are so mixed and prices so inflated it isn't worth the investment, I shall maybe look again when I come back to Aus.

We do not benefit from near parity of dollar unless we buy online ourselves 9and piss off the dealers even more), these prices are fixed from when it was about 65 cents. The dealers haven't heard of hedge funds!

I doubt that anyone in the USA will ever have much confidence in the water cooled 250. That engine comes from many sources and its to difficult to trust the wholesalers in such huge production environment as they have in china.

I like it and would like to see it with the water cooled engine and naked, but the price would take it to close to the other brand to be worth the risk. I suppose in production environs that crank out so many bikes and sell them all over the globe control and accountability becomes elusive?

I found this and it made me think….bikes in the mall? One in every mall and one service center in each region. I think its possible to pick up and delivery too.
http://www.zontes.com/image/about%20shop_03.jpg

I would indeed like to see bikes taken from the hairy-chested workshop/showroom we have in so many towns in Aus and displayed and sold like this. Perhaps if they were, a gradual sales increase to mainstream buyers would arise. I would also expect a modular repair/replacement system - "Something wrong? Certainly, no problems, we shall just slot in a new one, just have a coffee while you wait sir or madam."
The workshop would then test, isolate problems in their own time or just scrap/return depending on component price. Labour is always the highest cost here except where prices are inflated on parts. If the engines etc. were serial numbered but not to any machine, then swap in and out would work.

My local chainsaw shop was doing it for years with machines, until someone kept a record of the numbers and complained. They found it easier and cst effective to just have a few working models and spend any workshop downtime on fixing up where necessary! Customers were amazed at the fast service (always next day) and lack of problems, always a new/recon engine and only cost wa sfor new sprocket/bar/chain where necessary, always suggested clearly BEFORE the service/repair. It was found to be illegal now we have to wait a week or more for parts, wait for diagnosis, pay through the nose.

Thus I devised my own methodology, a cheap chinese chainsaw, extra bar, six chains, five years work expectation (200 cubic meters firewood plus regular fire-danger brush/tree clearing). Then I found they actually last eight to ten years with that workload at least. so costs come right down for me. Thus I have gained two spares, one in car for clearing fallen trees (happens a lot in local tracks I use), one in shed ready to go. I never have to argue or wait, quality of these tools is almost on a par with well-known brands and they take the same size/quality consumables. Unit cost of production of finished product, firewood, let alone the other work is about 40% local retail if I include my labour!

So, I am stretching the point but this could apply for motorcycles as a sales/service model and work! Sell in the Mall, instant service/replacement, very low fees or yearly 'extended warranty/contract' option for no-cost roadside service, etc etc etc. Also the sales of accessories would sky-rocket in such an environment and brand recognition would be instant and positive!

Dell used that business model for short period of time, they had kiosks in malls that held no inventory, everything was ordered online and then shipped.

Before they could open or display in malls they would have to have centralized service centers. Then they could allow costumer to select service levels al-a-cart. From basic warranty to full service that included pick-up and delivery services with all scheduled maintenance pre-paid for a defined duration.

Then it is also a matter of aggregate purchasing from a variety of manufacturers and consolidated distribution.
One warehouse per state and then one service provider with certain populated geographical areas, basically wherever there are malls.

Parts are stocked in service centers and also in central distribution centers. Central distribution could also operate a trade school and get access to federal education grants, basically training in small engine mechanics, inventory management and sales and customer service.

Technical schools are nothing new they also often offer onsite housing and in this model they could also work in the warehouse and intern at various service centers across the state.

Dell shut down the Kiosks and now sell their computers in big box retail stores. Gateway tried free standing stores and failed.

These products that being small motorcycles and scooters may not offer enough volume in sales to cover the cost of mall space. But they could be located in walking areas old neighborhood storefronts in areas with high traffic. I would say retro scooters and CUBS as well as small displacement full size motorcycles.

The service center could also offer rider training, if people want a test ride they can choose a model and take training on it for a fee.

Low costs but with fees that are $50.00 to $100.00 slipped in for training and or scheduled service.

So on the Chinese side it would be a matter of tailoring selected products for the North American market then the cooperative distributor would evaluate each models and then select the best ones to sell, they would also establish and work on technical documentation and inventory management of parts. Centralized warehosues and consolidated transshipping.

One of the biggest problems is model changes and then support after that, the Chinese would be wise to create classics that are not to trendy, changes are disruptive interoperability of parts is a very good way to control costs.

Unfortunately mainstream Americans call motorcycle riders organ donors, parent have a breakdown on children that want a motorcycle and many adults cannot operate a motorcycle they would crash, panic and then crash if they even tried to get on one. I am not sure if I would want them on the road with me?

So malls and the mainstream is not likely but storefronts are possible and maybe very large superstores with a service center on a highway interchange? Online showrooms and a fifty mile service area with pick-up and drop off service.

They would have to do local advertising, cable channels locally and local news papers. That is why distributing by state could be affective, learning and knowing the local markets and also state titling and registration processes.

If the central distribution was in a state capital the could theoretically lobby for favorable legislation. Limiting direct shipping from outside the state with out proper support? They could also work to streamline processing of titles and registration.

Then if linked to education...universities could analysis local markets for the potential to manufacture or perhaps assemble domestically.

think the Chinese may not realize how small the north American market is for motorcycles. There is not enough room for to many players.

200cc priced around $2,000.00
250cc “ “$2,500.00

That about the baseline for their market, going beyond that they would have to have better established distribution and brand name recognition.

One entity could define that one consolidated international distributor offering services on both sides of the ocean.

There is one advantage to state by state distribution, each state has it own legislative body, and part of that is a BMV that can and does offer statistics on registrations by brand and model, I can literally get a data feed of all models on the road in my state with a one year lag. I can see who buys what and where. That can be used to target tastes and models by region.

A large national distributor with administrative and warehousing faculties in each state or the most densely populated states. Finding the correct mix to distribute to each, specially going after certain models.

The under 250cc is limited but it has a defined number in each state. They could own that segment if approached strategically and then enter higher market after establishing brand name recognition. That will never happen with OEM brand and especially not with so many coming and going offering nearly identical models.

This all calls for the Chinese government to finance it, and that is not illegal immoral or wrong. They could finance such a venture. The goal would be highest quality for the lowest costs, not-for-profit and to cycle capital. The underling goal is and would be brand name establishment and reputation. Those brand names should and could lead into automobiles.

The key would be that the Chinese side of the distributor would act as the gate keeper, it would be open to all brands but limit what it allows to go across. The prices are limited to that of the other exiting brands however the ability to reach those prices limited by many factors such a system would be inherently devised to address.

It strategic and if done well is respected by consumers and also governments, but not by the competition.

Many of these manufacturers offer other products, generators, lawnmowers, snow blowers…

That consolidated distributor should not re-brand, they should offer managed brand naming marketing and distribution. That would include information services, inventory management and quality control feed back loops. They can easily make these simple products to be very durable and reliable.

Time waits for no one.

Mahindra Mojo



http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...indra-mojo.jpg


Then there is Bajaj

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...lsar_220_2.jpg

Honda plans to manufacture the lowest cost motorcycle….$600.00
They are considering buying up Hero Honda of India.



My bet is on Mahindra for establishing brand naming in the USA first. Before you will see a Chinese market share in the USA; you will more likely to see and Indian brands gain respect first.

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ndrapickup.jpg

Here is the TVS Apache 160 it comes stock with a 159.7cc single
15.7hp @8500 rpm ( that’s not bad for a stock 160cc bike)
13.1Nm @8500
Top speed 120kph (75mph)

There is a performance kit available for that bike…

It becomes 18.5hp @9000rpm
15.5Nm@7000rpm
Top speed 130km (80mph)
0-60 3.8 secs

That bike also has a racing version that has 20.6hp and has top speed of 140kpm
0-60 3.2 secs (86mph)

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...tr-160-1ap.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...e-RTR160-3.jpg

The TVS site is very well done….
http://www.tvsapache.com/180-index.html

That bikes retails in India for what 70,000 INR?
That’s $1,580 American!