adding gps etc

So I have a new GPS, Laser g35 for $60 Aus and it works OK, some problems at first but OK for the money. I am going to add offroad maps and use it on the m'bike.

With this in mind I have got a handlebar mount for the GPS and a 12v socket from fleabay. Not many places for a 12v socket on the Kinlon r/t but I can make a fitting on the bars or instrument cluster with a lead following the loom - or on the bike plastics somewhere with just a long power lead from the socket to the GPS. How did you other GPS users fit yours? Just direct leads from battery poles to the socket? And how did you fuse it, a 5v inline fuse on the positive side of the socket? I used to know about these things but have forgotten it all. Something in my mind says it should be negative side. Thought I should ask first before I set fire to everything.

go to repair shop for help? but I always like to DIY.

Complete wire looms, incl. Fuseholder available on Fleabay...should be also available down there
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIN-HELLA-TYPE...item4397e50155

For the holder I went the luxury way - RAM Mounts fits perfect for my Garmin Nüvi --> http://www.ram-mount.com.au/

I have had 3 different bikes that I have fitted similar setups that allows for connecting my HTC devices. The HTC devices are; HTC -P3300 (artemis), HTC-Touch Diamond, and HTC-HD2. All these devices are packed full of features, technologies and applications. One of those functions is GPS. Even though the HTC-Touch Diamond, might seem like a very small choice for GPS, it still works well and my eyesight is good enough that I can still use the GPS function from a distance while riding any one of the 3 moto's I use. For more info head over to www.HTC.com The other great thing with the use of a PPC type device, is everything is contained in the one unit. I'm basically equipped with a mobile office, can take pretty good photos, a document reader, can watch movies, listen to music, navigate using GPS (GarminXT, Route66, MapKing2007, Destinator, iGO8 et al.) - yes played with them all, though GarminXT and MapKing are the leaders for China IMO. and of course a phone.

Attachment 2033 Attachment 2034

For the mounts I've used either a peripower GPS www.peripower.com handle bar mount that doesn't rely on a RAM mount, because one of the considerations is that wherever the mount is located needs to afford shelter for the device unless one has a robust moto designed unit (I prefer my all in one device). For my CFMoto CF20T-VIP Fashion (Honda Helix) and the new CFMoto Jetmax scooters, I have taken apart a universal mount manufactured here in China (photo). It costs around rmb49 and I can buy it at the local large supermarket, though many other supermarkets etc don't stock this particular one. Whats great about it is the mounting dismantles (photo) and thats great because I only use a small arm and bracket that mounts into the actual GPS/PDA holder. If you swing by my Jetmax thread you can see how I've utilised it on the dash of the Jetmax, one hole drilled and then a couple of washers with nut & bolt and there's my mount. It's one of the great things about scooters. My Dragstar has a screen also so that helps protect where I've mounted the peripower mount onto the base of the handlebar.

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As for wiring - using the GPS can suck the battery life out of my HTC's, though I have been surprised at just how long I can get out of them when they're not on charge! For the all the bikes I've basically taken to wiring in a cigarette lighter multi-plug extension, and I've usually wired into to an existing wire that's live only when the ignition is on. I've altered that with the Jetmax, and have wired it in with an existing wire that's live all the time (it's the bike-alarm main wire with built in fuse), meaning I don't have to have the ignition on to be charging. I've also a combination of cigarette lighter charger adaptors for the HTC devices and also some universal charges that have adaptors that allow the use of multi plugs...

One of the things I considered also was being able to use that power for other applications, one of which is carrying a small air compressor - just in case. The scooters are easier for the wiring side of things in that the wiring and cigarette lighter units are concealed inside storage compartments. The Dragstar is more complicated as there's not a lot of space thats concealed. I ended up with wiring that runs through the loom under the tank and seat etc, then securing the cigarette lighter to as close as possible to the left side of the steering head, which also tends to get some protection from the screen, so it's not overly exposed. When I wash the Dragstar, I cover the cigarette lighter plugs with a plastic bag - does the job.

I like the versatility.

Great responses, thanks. I didn't get any notification of the posts so thought I was being ignored, will have to check my forum settings to see what has changed ... Andre, thanks for that link, I will use it for some stuff I am sure.

This is one of the very few times my purchases from China via flEabay didn't work out in terms of quality - the holder snapped in two places as I opened it. The bits left over are usable with some ingenuity and glue. I am going to concentrate on the 12v socket first as it will do many things as Bikerdoc points out, including power via USB. It will be at the back, not the front I have now decided as I want to build a rack with a lockable, demountable box for all this stuff - I lalso like the idea of a compressor very much, no heavier than a pump. I will need a second battery and a huge rack and box system for everything I could use and charge up, good gracious, I might even need a scooter! Unless I get some commonsense and do as Bikerdoc and get a multifunction device. Where do you stop? A small drinks fridge would be sooooo good in the Aussie summer ....

On my last trip from Kunming to Chengdu and back, I barely had time to prepare anything. Boucrap the ght a cheap car phone charger for my HTC Hero, stopped by a computer repair shop, and asked them to just solder aligator cables to it. It was wrong to scrap the fuse though.
http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/218_63/150_113/IMAG0104.jpg
Strapped the phone to handle bars using my pedal ties from my road bike.
http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/218_63/150_113/P1050230.jpg
I navigated (preset checkpoints not turn by turn) 1100 km over 3 and half days like this, each way, the only problems is that i sometimes forget the phone on the bike!
I highly recommend http://mobac.dnsalias.org/ to create your own maps for offline use. Free, and customizable.

That Mobac looks excellent. I am looking at Ozexplorer maps for the off-road, apparently they are like the old paper contour maps of the bush but your route is overlaid. This would be good as the Google maps are in error, showing non-existent tracks and so on. The ordinary GPS maps show none of the bush tracks I use and recently tried to send me up the Freeway, the wrong way. That would have been lethal so I need to do more research on which maps are usable in reality. I am pretty handy with alligator clips and cable ties and bungee rubbers myself, just wanted a more permanent fixture for the upcoming trip! I also think that research before hand, a few emails and calls to local motorbike shops on route, checking trail conditions in different seasons etc. is much better than trusting the GPS software chosen routes!

I need some sort of device that tells me every time I get off the bike to take things with me. I usually forget to even take the key. Will have to change that.

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Originally Posted by slabo

I highly recommend http://mobac.dnsalias.org/ to create your own maps for offline use. Free, and customizable.

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Wow, Slabo, what a find! Just had a squiz at that mobac site and very keen to give this a whirl. If it can create routes that can be dropped into a Garmin this will make a lot of folks happy, not just me!

The devil will be in the details. this that Mobile Atlas Creator can create atlases for Garmin Custom Map (KMZ). Does anyone (Bikerdoc??) know: Is KMZ a universal format in Garmin? Or just for certain models?

thanks/cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Wow, Slabo, what a find! Just had a squiz at that mobac site and very keen to give this a whirl. If it can create routes that can be dropped into a Garmin this will make a lot of folks happy, not just me!
The devil will be in the details. this that Mobile Atlas Creator can create atlases for Garmin Custom Map (KMZ). Does anyone (Bikerdoc??) know: Is KMZ a universal format in Garmin? Or just for certain models?
thanks/cheers!

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KMZ is a format supported by many mapping/GPS apps etc. Garmin does support the use of KMZ - for more info:
Garmin discussion here
Garmin pdf file here
Garmin KMZ tips from GPS Fix
The best GPS application going for offroad/track has to be OZIexplorer.

Garmin also provide a computing software application/tool which can import/export Garmin maps, POI's, tracks, routing etc. It's called Mapsource, and I have used it from time to time to create routes for destinations where I want to follow a predetermined path. That's not often as I like to explore and find places, which before the availability of decent paper maps and more lately GPS, was how I found my way all over Zhejiang/SH etc. Having GPS is not full proof, but having the latest maps available and using some observation skills helps a lot. China's changing rapidly, new roads and routes being constructed all the time so even when I am navigating using one of my GPS apps, I tend to zoom in and out frequently to see if there might not be an alternative route.
:thumbsup:

Damn, this GPS stuff is worse than PCs. You need a PhD just to sort out all the compatibilities and formats. I looked at the Garmin site, and it describes KMZ as a format for its "outdoor handhelds" but does not say it works across their devices. what an f'd up company.

KMZ is just a zipped format of a KML file.
Garmin does not like open standards, and does not play well with others.
GPX is where it's at as it can be read by just about any software.
The best GPS system for China is a raster map system and not a vector based system as there are far too many new roads being built every year.

Cheers!
ChinaV

What I need is someone to tell me "buy this one with this map setup for China" because programming the damn things is too complicated for me. I just need something that is reasonably up-to-date and will show me where I am.

I have a Garmin Nuvi 200. It is now old (like me) but was one of the first English / pinyin available in China. But its maps are seriously out-of-date. Is it possible to update the maps?

KISS ... Keep It Simple Sweethearts ... this old guy is going senile :wheelchair:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Damn, this GPS stuff is worse that PCs. You need a PhD just to sort out all the compatibilities and formats.

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Agreed. This mobac malarky does seem worth learning though!

Slabo, how do you use this on android? I am also using the HTC Hero, but so far far i was just using google maps with google mytracks. This offline mapping seems great and i want to learn. What app do you use to load them, trekbuddy or something else? Care to write some brief instructions?

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

What I need is someone to tell me "buy this one with this map setup for China" because programming the damn things is too complicated for me. I just need something that is reasonably up-to-date and will show me where I am.
I have a Garmin Nuvi 200. It is now old (like me) but was one of the first English / pinyin available in China. But its maps are seriously out-of-date. Is it possible to update the maps?
KISS ... Keep It Simple Sweethearts ... this old guy is going senile :wheelchair:

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Yes, you can get an updated map, the English (PinYin) map should be 7.50 whereas the CHS is 7.60. You'll probably need to contact Unistrong (Garmin distributor in PRC), though you could have some assist you to upload the (unlocked) map onto your Nuvi 200. You're too far away from me, so I can't assist unfortunately, so contact Unistrong. If you bought your unit here, did you get a few map upgrade, as I think you're entitled to one, but don't quote me on it, you know how the saying goes... TIC. http://www.unistrong.com/English/products/MapCard.htm

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Originally Posted by felix

how do you use this on android? I am also using the HTC Hero, but so far far i was just using google maps with google mytracks. This offline mapping seems great and i want to learn. What app do you use to load them, trekbuddy or something else? Care to write some brief instructions?

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If you read 汉语, then 凯立德/careland gps software might worth a look.
Hope this help.

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Yes, you can get an updated map, the English (PinYin) map should be 7.50 whereas the CHS is 7.60. You'll probably need to contact Unistrong (Garmin distributor in PRC), though you could have some assist you to upload the (unlocked) map onto your Nuvi 200. You're too far away from me, so I can't assist unfortunately, so contact Unistrong. If you bought your unit here, did you get a few map upgrade, as I think you're entitled to one, but don't quote me on it, you know how the saying goes... TIC. http://www.unistrong.com/English/products/MapCard.htm

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Great, that helps me out. Thanks a million! I did buy it here, and was told I am entitled to a free upgrade, but the shop has closed down. I have no idea where the receipt is.

Now, are you sure I can't entice you to a nice ride, burgers & beer in Beijing? The upgrade is around 1,000 rmb :eek2:

BTW, I did download a 7.5 torrent but it was in .img file format. My Garmin map updater didn't recognize it, and I was afraid of screwing up the machine by tinkering around with it (as I've done many times with Windows).

Maybe I will just go buy a whole new device.

Could you not post it insured or something? I get stuff from China (Shanghai etc not just HK) to Aus very quickly, does mail not work as well internally? Also, there are some cool GPS forums designed to lead beginners through the steps of changes and changing formats etc. with backup. Also check the 4WD forums, if no-one from the forum in China will offer to do it for you.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Great, that helps me out. Thanks a million! I did buy it here, and was told I am entitled to a free upgrade, but the shop has closed down. I have no idea where the receipt is.
Now, are you sure I can't entice you to a nice ride, burgers & beer in Beijing? The upgrade is around 1,000 rmb :eek2:
BTW, I did download a 7.5 torrent but it was in .img file format. My Garmin map updater didn't recognize it, and I was afraid of screwing up the machine by tinkering around with it (as I've done many times with Windows).
Maybe I will just go buy a whole new device.

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If you were closer, then I'd gladly assist you with it. If you are happy to courier it down to me, then I'm ok to help. BJ is just too far for a Beer (I don't really drink alcohol) and a burger, but I'm thanksful for the offer ;)
First contact Unistrong as they may provide the upgrade as they can check the serial # and taht way they should be able to see if it's had the upgrade. If you don't speak good enough Chinese then have some who does call them as they don't speak English. If they won't give you the upgrade, then send me your Nuvi200, I had a Portugese GM here who had a Nuvi200 and I upgraded his without any problems. I've played with GarminXT since it first came to the market... and... well that would be telling. Best not incriminate myself.

For using Mobac with android, i still haven't found a working setup. I've tried a bunch of different apps to load the offline maps, but none of them can handle the dreaded china map offset. So far the only thing i've used on my phone that works with the offset is plain standard google maps. Does anyone know something helpful?

is there no way to reset the offset? there are at least three of us in this forum that use the Garmin Zumo 660 or its BMW variant, the BMW Motorrad Navigator IV. Though Garmin, as a closed and rather antiquated proprietary system, remains the antithesis of open source and compatible standards, we have been able through their China distributor to recalibrate the map to compensate for the China offset. We've all had this done at the Shanghai office. They take your GPS into the back, then go up on the roof. They won't let you accompany them when they do it. They are all secretive about who does it and how. But it gets done.

Mine is accurate down to a couple of meters at most, though that hardly helps when the road you are riding opened only last month and isn't even in the map.....

Any cryptographers in MCM?

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Any cryptographers in MCM?

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Not a crypto, but have played with the offset extensively. It's not universal throughout the country, different areas have a slightly different offset. There is a file that gets loaded into the GPS unit to correct the algorithm, although others in know have told me it gets zapped into the firmware.

I find it interesting that my HTC HD2 running Google Maps is always correct regardless of the country I am in. This leads me to believe that the Garmin fix is file based and not firmware based.

Nothing to do with national security, just another means of ensuring unfair competition by the Chinese government in the GPS market.

Cheers!
ChinaV

The offset can be easily overcome, though it doesn't come without some risk that might mean a unit/device becomes bricked.
Talking about GARMIN GPS especially for handhelds (SYMBIANS, PDA, PPC's, WM, etc) then dig around in sites like ppcwarez and pda4x just to name a few (there are others). If one digs hard enough there and reads lots of relevant threads then some of the answers to questions posted here - can be found there. I've posted extensively about Garmin on those websites - nuff said.

As I've stated previously the great thing about Garmin, is that one can use Mapsource on a computer, which inturn means that one can upload/download maps, POI, routes, tracks to/from the Garmin related device. If I want to create a specific route I can do so on a computer and upload this onto my Garmin device. I use Garmin on WM/PPC's (HTC - TD, P3300, HD2) which also gives me the tracking functionality which can be a real bonus. There are not many other GPS applications that include that tracking ability. There are some issues with Garmin in China - inability to use co-ordinates within the application is the biggest (aside from the offset), but this can be overcome easy enough with some creative thinking. One needs to look squarely at UNISTRONG CHINA for the adoption of these issues.

Up-to-date mapping for ALL GPS providers in PRC is an ongoing issue given the rate of development & change, I personally have been pretty happy with Garmin in this regard. I've been in some pretty out of the way places and it's still been able to navigate fine. Like every GPS though, one should use it just as a reference and not rely on it solely. That's why I use 3 different GPS apps on my HTC's. That doesn't mean that Garmin doesn't have some routing issues at times, but I've found it be pretty okay and manageable, and certainly no worse than other navigating programs.

I've used R66, Destinator 6 & 7, iGO8, Mapking2007 and a few other local systems and continue to play with several of these. My top 3 GPS apps for China are GarminXT, Mapking2007, iGO8.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

... The upgrade is around 1,000 rmb :eek2: ...

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I paid 200RMB for the upgrade recently including a new SD Card. I send the device to Unistrong Beijing office, they update everything (software and map data) and send it back. Took less then 1 week.

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Originally Posted by felix

For using Mobac with android, i still haven't found a working setup. I've tried a bunch of different apps to load the offline maps, but none of them can handle the dreaded china map offset. So far the only thing i've used on my phone that works with the offset is plain standard google maps. Does anyone know something helpful?

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Felix, have you tried OruxMaps? I use it on my HTC Hero. You need the latest Mobile Atlas Creator 1.8 release to be able to build maps for OruxMaps. In settings, you must set max map size to 1048575, or map images are too fragmented and your Droid will crawl.
Turn by turn is useless for China, roads change too much. I plan my route on Google maps, then export to KML (press link, then add output=kml, and you get a kml file!). Then i load the KML in Mobdac, then build a map around those waypoints. I add more detail when my route passes through cities.

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Originally Posted by andre555

I paid 200RMB for the upgrade recently including a new SD Card. I send the device to Unistrong Beijing office, they update everything (software and map data) and send it back. Took less then 1 week.

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Thanks Bikerdoc & Andre - i'll get it done via Unistrong.

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Originally Posted by slabo

Felix, have you tried OruxMaps? I use it on my HTC Hero. You need the latest Mobile Atlas Creator 1.8 release to be able to build maps for OruxMaps. In settings, you must set max map size to 1048575, or map images are too fragmented and your Droid will crawl.
Turn by turn is useless for China, roads change too much. I plan my route on Google maps, then export to KML (press link, then add output=kml, and you get a kml file!). Then i load the KML in Mobdac, then build a map around those waypoints. I add more detail when my route passes through cities.

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I disagree; turn-by-turn is NOT useless at all IMO. While there are certainly many new roads being constructed here, that doesn't mean that GPS is useless or completely unreliable. I use Mapking2007 with maps that are dated 2006/2007 and 2008 and granted the maps don't have all the roads one could use, they have the majority and one needs to exercise a certain level of common sense - no matter where one uses a GPS.

In my experience using GPS in China, one can easily get from points A - B turn-by-turn without too many issues. GarminXT I have found to be excellent for use in (and out of) China overall. Last October, it's all I used to navigate through lower Zhejiang, Jiangxi and Anhui. Never pulled my mapbook out once, & never got lost. There are loads of other reasons why having these GPS's are worthwhile; like finding the nearest gas/petrol stations, lodgings, places to eat on the fly etc. Not something one can do with a KMZ/KML loaded file... Numerous times I have met up with riding buddies in some far off town that I may have never been to before. If one knows the name, or address or some other location it is pretty darn easy. The only issue can be with spelling, which is always and issue with Pinying/Chinese.
A friend of mine was using his Garmin Nuvi to drive around China on a daily basis finding suppliers, picking up samples etc. He had few if any significant issues. If one wants to pre-determine or pre-plan a route with Garmin, one can use Garmin's Mapsource... easily.

Hi Slabo thanks for the tips, i've been testing out oruxmaps for a couple of days and it seems like a pretty decent piece of software. It still has the offset of death though...

Have you found any way to de-offset the maps in mobac? If there was a way to calibrate them in mobac before creating the altlas, then they would come out perfect in orux. I just can't figure out how!

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Thanks Bikerdoc & Andre - i'll get it done via Unistrong.

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You guys saved me a lot of money, thanks! I went to the Unistrong office (I live in Beijing) and had them do it while I waited. Price including SD card was 99 rmb, because I have an old, bottom-end GPS. They installed it (thank heavens!) and I'm up and running with new maps.

Originally, I was either going to buy a new GPS or pay a less-than-honest shop around 1,000 rmb for the update.

Thanks again for the info and help.