kinlon sprocket job ... blimey, i did it!

Attachment 2813

Woo, what a pain in the arse that was! Mainly because I'm not very mechanically minded I must admit. Not difficult, just fiddly. You need a large circlip/springclip tool, sockets big enough for axle bolt, torque wrench preferably and all the chain breaker and riveting gear. It does have a clip master link on the chain and I reckon it is OK to just keep this but preferably replace the spring clip. I didn't as it wasn't forced or twisted. Many riders swear riveted are safer but hey, its only safer if you know how to do it and have the tools! Lots of MX'ers and racers use clips. Just check it before you ride I reckon, takes a quick glance is all and of course you look at your tyres anyway ...

I only intended to tighten the chain but as I had purchased the sprocket months back thought it couldn't be all that hard ... had lots of difficulty with the hub circlip (17 in the diagram at bottom) as both my sets of circlip pliers were much too small. Finally managed it with a lot of effort and needle-nosed pliers.

The sprocket on this machine has four strange bolts (14 in diag) that have an extended plain shaft that sits in rubber bush collars in the hub. Some suggest it would be best for anyone going to do this to get new bushes and do the swingarm and rear suspension bushes too - but my bike is only 2000km old so I decided not to go to the extra effort of actually identifying and finding the parts and changing them especially as the Kinlon suppliers and dealers are fucking useless, all of them. They are said to be Honda parts or similar so might be a good idea if you have time and energy and skill.

You can find the sprocket specs in my old thread about gearing, thanks to XXX
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...n-rt-200/page2

The 35t sprocket I got didn't sit well on the hub as it is in fact 1.5mm thinner so the large spring clip doesn't hold it back tight - so I have had to place washers between the buffer cushions and the sprocket bolt. This was easier for someone like me than trying to make/find a larger shim. Then it finally tightened well and stopped wobbling, don't know how long that will last but seems safe and solid.

Of course, shortening the chain by two pairs of links wasn't enough, not sure how to work that out properly, I just measured the difference between chain on half of large sprocket against the chain on half of the smaller diameter sprocket. I hadn't really realised that the sprocket with fewer teeth would be smaller ... just me being truly stupid.

The chain is a non 'O' ring 520 and fortunately had a clip I could re-use. but I will replace it soon for safety. So in the end it needed adjusting to more than halfway out, making me think I could have taken off one more pair.

And with much trepidation I took it for a run once I found my lost keys. Remember, it takes the back brake a few pumps to come back up if you use it (I don't, much). Only five miles or so round the local dirt/gravel roads and a mile or so on tarmac, but it told me it is a job well worth doing. You do lose the 'rip' of power most real dirt bikes need, but to be honest, unless you are MXing or doing single track for a hundred miles you DON"T need that rip with an R/T model. The smaller sprocket makes all power use noticeably smoother. The ride feels much more like what I am comfortable with. In fact I would say that on the gravel and loose dirt which I ride just about all the time it is safer as you don't get the sudden 'chop' in gear changes that can lose the back end for you. On the tarmac it seemed it took a fair while to climb through the gears so you do notice that there, but still plenty of right hand if you need it.

Top speed showed only 110 kph and from previous GPS comparison I know that is less than 100 actual. I know the speedo is well out, at least ten percent, so probably now doing only 55 to 60 mph. Needs just a touch more. It just didn't want to go further but was still in a lower rev range, so that could be a need for exhaust/carby changes to peak it even higher. It did not hit the rev limiter, just wouldn't climb further!

All in all, a job I look back on as easy enough but only because it actually got done, a few times I cursed myself for starting it. But it feels and rides so much better. This is certainly the first mod anyone with a Kinlon R/T should do.

Thanks for the post. I have to do the same to my bike before the engine rattles it's self to bits when I try to get past 60 km/h. Both mechanics i saw said it can't be done. Probably because they don't know what replacement parts to get. The dealers in China aren't much better.
The dealer i got my bike says "Oh, it's an offroad bike, dangerous to go fast with this. Also, you're a foreigner, better go slow, not safe for you to go faster than 60."
Again, thanks for the post, as soon as I get back to China i'll get some tools and start this. First i should get the bike to start, i had to push it the last 2 km to the garage. Lost power and won't start again for some reason...

Hi mate. I can't remember if yours is the SM or the RT? Both have been done by forum members but I think on the SM you can also change the front sprocket, more room somehow. I certainly didn't see enough room in the front of the RT for a front change. If you want further measurements other than the details and specs XXX gave us in my other thread, just holler.

Today I went for a twenty mile trip - all well. Maybe it is the tighter chain but gear changing up is felt more, sort of kicks the bike along. I used to feel it on down changes and had expected less with the new sprocket ratio. I would feel better on the Freeways now but I still want another ten kph at least so I can cruise instead of pushing it, the rev limiter just started to kick in at 120+ kph on clock, (a true 110 kph).

I had GF following me for ten miles, she said that on her car speedo, which is now GPS checked, I was doing just under 95 kph to just a fraction over 105 kph over that distance while my dial showed 110 to 120+. The variation was on slight slopes and when the wind changed! Because these bikes are tall, and the rider is upright, the wind does make a difference. Coming back, same road, with the wind gusting toward me slowed me down by at least 10 kph.

So it certainly does feel better and it does give a usable top speed. The ratio at 2.77 is still OK for the power train with a fair pull through all the gears and quite forgiving when in third instead of second (for example) round a curve, and still throttled up to speed quickly as I came upright and gave her some gas.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=7562172156 | 4 curve | Max = 18000 rpm

I do not know ignition much.
This gives me 4 timing choices? (4 curve)
Does it replace or stop the rev limiter?
Would CDI be better?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=7562172156 | 4 curve | Max = 18000 rpm

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Hi Jape,
I have neither SM nor RT. I have a Shineray XY200GY-7, commonly known as the "Long March". But the job is not going to be very different from what you did on bike. I understand from this and your other post "Sporoket Problems" that the issue is to find a matching sproket. The sprokets must be aligned; i.e. chain must be straight with the front and rear sprokets. Hence the possible need for shims. Also I need the correct width sproket for the chain i'm using.
Anyway, i need all the luck I can get on taobao and the local market.

One question though, were you able todo this without taking off the wheel?

Ok, understood, glad the thread helped you (or made you laugh :icon10:)

I reckon there's a few knowledgeable Shineray guys here that would aim you straight at a correct fit sprocket if you start a thread called 'shineray rear sprocket'! They probably don't bother with my posts.:rolleyes1: Did you get to sort out the ignition yet on yours?

Not really able to do it without taking wheel off Slabo. You could maybe do it without taking the wheel right out, but you have to release the axle nut and slide the shaft out of the frame at least as far as the hub to get the sprocket over the shaft, so it is easy to slide the wheel forward and get the chain off so you can work with that on the bench, so why not put the wheel on the bench or ground to work on the sprocket nuts etc? It is also a chance to clean all the fine dust away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

I do not know ignition much.
This gives me 4 timing choices? (4 curve)
Does it replace or stop the rev limiter?
Would CDI be better?

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Google translate this : http://www.flytimer.net/gscp/dgdhq.asp It's not the like AC-cdi, more like Suzuki 's Ignitior.
Watch out similar thingy in Ebay , some of them are fancy looking "rubbish" only.

That's what i was afraid of, need to take off the wheel, or at least the wheel must be stable and off the ground. Hence the need for a center stand. If it's loaded, the shaft probably won't budge. Maybe that's why the mechanics i met here refuse to do the job. As for ignition, i just got back to China this morning, so I'll do that as soon as i get a chance..

I don't really understand this Slabo. Are we miscommunicating, I can be a bit thick at times!? Anything that comes off the wheel like sprocket or disc has to pass over the axle so it needs removal unless, like chain, it breaks apart? Even that is easier with the bike up. But it is simple enough. Believe me, if I can do it you can or a Chinese mechanic can. I am actually scared of machanical work since I rewired the twelve-volt doorbell to the mains power at age nine and set light to the hall way requiring a fire engine. I sort of look at machinery of all kinds and my mind goes two dimensional and shudders.

The stand concerns? It is a heavy bike for me as I have a few discs gone and can't stand or walk very well even on a good day - but I get a milk crate and sort of wiggle it on then lean, lift and push bike into a stable, solid working position. There is some weight to lift but I manage and have used a car jack to lift it before but that was more chancy. I will get a simple lever or hydraulic stand one day when I see one on special. I have done this a few times with no disasters, get it into the right place under engine and nothing is trapped.

The rear shaft if that is the one you mean, undoes with a bit of leverage from a solid shifter while on the ground, and in fact I had enough resistance when tyre gripped between my legs, wheel off the ground, to apply the rear axle torque (about 70 ftlbs). I can't understand why any equipped mechanic, even in China, wouldn't have the right stand, either leverage type or hydraulic, and wouldn't have the basic tools? Certainly should have a crate or something out the back somewhere! The front sprocket shaft is a well known problem on many bikes but doesn't need removal for any chain, sprocket or rear wheel work.

Good luck with travelling and settling back quickly. And good luck with finding the faults. Usually it is something simple (and obvious in hindsight). Most testing is just the boring and time consuming logic of isolation. Lets hope you are (in this case) as stupid as me and it is the kill switch (which my brain keeps seeing as 'off' when i look at it, even with full mental capacity ...) Of course I move switch the wrong way which means no start. I do it all the time and still get it wrong! same with the choke, i had to paint a blob on the bar to remind me as many times my brain fades and it looks all wrong! Then when I do get it started I ride away from the store in embarrassment and forget to turn on the fuel so I get right into the middle of the long, leaning, sweeping bend up the road over the tight stone railway bridge six inches from the wall, and engine dies again, usually with a few cars close up behind me because it is my village and I stick to speed limit when no-one else does. I am getting on, and did lots of dope when a kid, whats your excuse?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

I can't understand why any equipped mechanic, even in China, wouldn't have the right stand, either leverage type or hydraulic, and wouldn't have the basic tools?

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Bike lift at a Chinese moto shop... surely you jest? Once you visit here it will become clear why such simple things are impossible. Then again, you will also probably get a chance to see someone drop a transmission from a truck, in the middle of the highway, with a lug wrench and pliers.

TIC

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

I don't really understand this Slabo. Are we miscommunicating, I can be a bit thick at times!? Anything that comes off the wheel like sprocket or disc has to pass over the axle so it needs removal unless, like chain, it breaks apart? Even that is easier with the bike up. But it is simple enough. Believe me, if I can do it you can or a Chinese mechanic can. I am actually scared of machanical work since I rewired the twelve-volt doorbell to the mains power at age nine and set light to the hall way requiring a fire engine. I sort of look at machinery of all kinds and my mind goes two dimensional and shudders.

The stand concerns? It is a heavy bike for me as I have a few discs gone and can't stand or walk very well even on a good day - but I get a milk crate and sort of wiggle it on then lean, lift and push bike into a stable, solid working position. There is some weight to lift but I manage and have used a car jack to lift it before but that was more chancy. I will get a simple lever or hydraulic stand one day when I see one on special. I have done this a few times with no disasters, get it into the right place under engine and nothing is trapped.

The rear shaft if that is the one you mean, undoes with a bit of leverage from a solid shifter while on the ground, and in fact I had enough resistance when tyre gripped between my legs, wheel off the ground, to apply the rear axle torque (about 70 ftlbs). I can't understand why any equipped mechanic, even in China, wouldn't have the right stand, either leverage type or hydraulic, and wouldn't have the basic tools? Certainly should have a crate or something out the back somewhere! The front sprocket shaft is a well known problem on many bikes but doesn't need removal for any chain, sprocket or rear wheel work.

Good luck with travelling and settling back quickly. And good luck with finding the faults. Usually it is something simple (and obvious in hindsight). Most testing is just the boring and time consuming logic of isolation. Lets hope you are (in this case) as stupid as me and it is the kill switch (which my brain keeps seeing as 'off' when i look at it, even with full mental capacity ...) Of course I move switch the wrong way which means no start. I do it all the time and still get it wrong! same with the choke, i had to paint a blob on the bar to remind me as many times my brain fades and it looks all wrong! Then when I do get it started I ride away from the store in embarrassment and forget to turn on the fuel so I get right into the middle of the long, leaning, sweeping bend up the road over the tight stone railway bridge six inches from the wall, and engine dies again, usually with a few cars close up behind me because it is my village and I stick to speed limit when no-one else does. I am getting on, and did lots of dope when a kid, whats your excuse?

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Jape, always funny reading your posts.
I have some tools, and i have space to work on the bike. But I'm just trying to think of all possibilities before i get started. Not smart to take the bike apart only to find I can't finish the job, then I'll have the bike in peices on my front yard. I don't have a jack, and I won't have anyone to help me if needed. Combine that with my less than perfect Chinese, and you see it's not so easy here.
I usually have no trouble taking stuff apart, it's putting things back that's tricky. If i get it right (happens sometimes), i call myself smart, if not, i call whatever it is im working on crappy China shit.

First to find sprokets. I'll get a closer look and post specs when i get the bike started.

Maybe there is a bikers cafe in Kunming? Or even someone from this forum nearby who might help out. A problem shared is a problem halved I reckon, as long as you don't mind looking like a fool in front of someone else occasionally! I admire you for even having basic Chinese, I have fun with translation tools but really would be helpless over there.

Its strange, most of the stuff I worked on throughout my lifetime was obviously crappy chinese shit when I tried to work on it, just like yours - and this was for the decades when China was closed to the evil long-nosed white man!

This is my favorite workstand that I bought here in China, unfortunately the factory hasn't had any more since I bought this one. :frump: Maybe one of you Taobao pro's (humanbeing) can find these. Should be about ¥600.

http://www.contactdi.com/Processed/1010969.jpg

I got this one in the Guangzhou MC market yesterday for ¥350. Works well enough and is very compact.

http://www.contactdi.com/Processed/1080922.jpg

http://www.contactdi.com/Processed/1080923.jpg

If your bike doesn't have a centerstand, I highly recomend getting either of these...you will probably find yourself doing more maintenance than before.

Cheers!
ChinaV

ChinaV,
Speaking of center stands, how about finding me one in China for my Qlink XF200 like this one?
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...enterstand.jpg

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barnone

ChinaV,
Speaking of center stands, how about finding me one in China for my Qlink XF200 like this one?
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...enterstand.jpg

Thanks

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Also politely waiting for a center-stand for my Shineray XY200-GY-7 !

http://www.contactdi.com/Processed/1080923.jpg
Stable, and compact:: Perfect. Too bad I live out in the west, taobao is my only option. Would be best if I can find a center-stand, but this also looks very good.

Jape, bike running again. As soon as I have some spare time and cash(won't be long), I'll start the mods...

Excellent news, what was the problem?
Enjoy it for a while before you start in on the mods mate. What is the weather like your way? Rideable?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slabo

... Too bad I live out in the west, taobao is my only option. Would be best if I can find a center-stand, but this also looks very good.

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The Kunming version : 70s jack (made from "army" factory) + welding http://motorcycle.sh.cn/t_619267.htm :icon10:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barnone

ChinaV,
Speaking of center stands, how about finding me one in China for my Qlink XF200 like this one?
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...enterstand.jpg

Thanks

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How does that stand work, I don't see any springs to keep it in position when it's raised.

If you guys need something, just PM me. I'm always happy to send stuff from the Guangzhou MC market, or Taobao stores, to members of the MCM family.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

How does that stand work, I don't see any springs to keep it in position when it's raised.

If you guys need something, just PM me. I'm always happy to send stuff from the Guangzhou MC market, or Taobao stores, to members of the MCM family.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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http://motorcycle.sh.cn/viewthread.p...uthorid=177355 | TEMP use only

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

Excellent news, what was the problem?
Enjoy it for a while before you start in on the mods mate. What is the weather like your way? Rideable?

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Enjoy it before I break it you mean? I've enjoyed it enough as it is. Can't find mechanics to do the job for me, so I'll do it myself, or scrap the bike eventually.
Weather? Lookup kunming, the spring city. We only get rain a couple of months a year, rest of the the time it's ride ride ride.. gets cold sometimes, but nothing that gets in the way of riding..

About the bike not starting, I think ChinaV's suggestion was spot on. Something stuck in the bottom of the carb. bleed the float bowl, tapp tapp, to make sure whatever is in there actually moves. Couldn't pull off by myself afterall.
You see what's difficult here? Back home I could have called for help, or if i needed tools, I would just borrow what i needed. If I go to a mechanic, i could reason or fight with him. Here, i feel as helpless as a 5year old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

http://motorcycle.sh.cn/viewthread.p...uthorid=177355 | TEMP use only

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hb,
Thanks for suppling the link again. I thinking of building one that would be permanently attached to my Q but was hoping that one was already available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slabo

Too bad I live out in the west, taobao is my only option. Would be best if I can find a center-stand, but this also looks very good.

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Here are a couple of results on taobao that might help you:
http://s.taobao.com/search?q=%CE%AC%...style=grid&s=0

I got one of these and am fairly happy with it. It doesn't have that piston thing like ChinaV's but it works ok, just hold the bike firmly and watch your feet when lowering it because it drops very fast!
http://img01.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploa...pg_310x310.jpg

with my limited google translate voodo skills i found this http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=1719185935
tried finding something similar, no luck. What's the correct term to search for something like this? If i can't find a centerstand, i'll get a hydraulic jack type stand.

I am surprised you are still feeling negative about this sort of work. We are all helpless as five year olds in most things anyway, however cool we think we are and usually achieve maybe one or two areas of competence and confidence before we die. The rest is delusion. Anyway, you had a bike that wasn't going, a few words on a forum, a bit of effort to overcome it, and you are going again! I am impressed. Riding in the sunshine. Find that bikers' cafe and sit outside for a coffee or whatever they brew. Let folk come to you and you can nod politely and choose which ones seem ok to respond to. Then you can be the fool as you seem to predict about yourself, just your turn, thats all. Its fun mate. Forgive my philosophical bent. Good luck with getting a jack, you have some choices now. I want one too! But I shall work with the milk crate and pay some bills instead of spending for a while I think. Been getting quite a few small cheap things and they sort of added up to a big shock!

Re: "The 35t sprocket I got didn't sit well on the hub as it is in fact 1.5mm thinner so the large spring clip doesn't hold it back tight" - dont accept delivery on a standard sproket unless no sideways movement, it will last more than the 6 months warranty before the circlip/sprocket pressure starts chewing out the hub.
Dont believe a dealer if you bought yours from one that this is normal for the sprocket to move around so much "to take the pressue off the gearbox".....dont believe the crap. My hub at 8500km is now chewed out enough to for the chain to come off with a hard hit (nsw potholes). I am now off to the wreckers this weekend of get a new rear wheel from a jap bike so this crap wont happen again. Dont get me wrong...my motard does every thing I expected it to, but these annoyances start me to second guess not to buy a 2nd hand jap bike, my 1969 suzuki a100 doesnt have any of these parts mis-match issues so why should a 2009 chinese bike have these.

sales 101 pre internet....have a positive response from a customer they will tell 3 people. Have a negative response they will tell 10. thankyou mr west gosford nsw australia chinese bike dealer

Welcome, why don't you get it off your chest eh?

Come on, tell us more about yourself, your bike and rides you make and any other good as well as bad experiences.

And if you want to name names, do that too. Just tell the story straight and don't embellish it.

We get these bikes because we are poor, or brave and adventurous. We deal with some good dealers and many bad ones, in Australia as well as China and in the USA. Human nature.

One thing we all do quite well here, is help and support. So make your visit valuable and tell us more, explain better so no-one else is annoyed or possibly hurt.

Thanks for posting that mate, I shall move it to a thread call 'A286rules intro'.