Capn_jer

Hello to all. I just found this site and was overwhelmed with the pics and video of rural China road trips. I'm looking for work in CN right now and plan to experience rural China myself. So I have some questions. I read where it is difficult to import used bikes. Can one get around that impediment by disassembling a bike and shipping in in pieces as 'motor bike parts". Could a guy buy a wrecked CN bike, remove the ID plate and put it on his bike, and use the lic plate that the wrecked bike had issued?

I doubt that the average police officer in CN or the US knows what various bikes should look like. Now please don't go off on me about ethics, late model used KLR 650s can be had here in the US for $2,000-$2,500, and the KLR 250 for $1,500. So long as a bike has got a title and tag and not been stolen what's the beef?

The "beef", is this little entity called customs. They will have all kinds of fun extorting money out of you for shipping those pieces. We have enough trouble importing simple things like a chain or set of brake pads, you really think you're going to slip an entire bike through? Have you done some calculations on shipping so much weight and bulk? I'm guessing a minimum of $3000 to ship that many boxes.

Get a registered Chinese bike and enjoy yourself, your idea is not worth the hassle and risk. What's wrong with a nice Chinese dual-sport for $2000 USD?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Hi Capn_jer, welcome to the world of everything is possible, nothing is easy!

My guess, once you arrive here many other issues will come up and the importantion seems so distant that the shipment will be written off...

Have a look at the thumpers available, locally, JH600, Galaxy XTR/TGR, Shineray X2,... main choices on the Dual Sport side, and two of them brand NEW for 2000USD available legally without all the red tape you asking for with the import scheme.
If the Chinese stuff not works out for you still the importation might work, you might as well buy a "imported" one as here: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8949313759
Its available, however its not possible to get "real" plates.

I suggest you just check back when you settled. Welcome!

Hey ChinaV, thanks for the reply. I'm a stubborned headed kinda guy and I like to ride my KLR. Every government has a fouled up bureaucratic system and every society has locals to know their way around it. I don't wanna ride 'in town'. It appears that provincal rules vary by quite a bit. I'm floored that you have trouble importing chains and pads. I heard a rumor that foreign expert cert holders can get past the vehicle import problem. On this site I viewed a HD group out on a poker run. How did all those hogs get in?

also, somebody posted pics of a new CN bike they had bought with really questionable welding of the frame. Sorry, I'd feel uncomfortable on one of those.

ChinaV is spot on with his advice. I have lived here in China for 7 years. I can tell you that the impossible can be done and the easy is impossible. It is just the way it is.

Regarding the Harley riders, these bikes are legal in China as are BMW and Ducati, albeit at a premium price. FYI, a US$6500.00 883 sporty Harley in the USA sells for over US$16K in China. My BMW R1200GSA cost me US$20K in Texas. Same bike here is almost US$50K. I looked at a beat up 2008 GS gray market for US$25K but it was most likely either stolen or wrecked. I would not have paid US$4K outside of China for it. I ride a Jialing JH600 and I am pretty happy with it to date. Either prepare to get your checkbook out or be open minded.

'Stubborn headed' may work fine for you in Florida but the attitude would get you trouble anywhere else in the world I am sure. You are talking about bribery, corruption, subversion. Yes that exists everywhere in the world and you are pretty smart to have worked that out. You will certainly find China specific variants of it because it is human nature; however, 'stubborn headed' doesn't work in that arena. Smooth, careful, aware, respectful does. They replace the power you otherwise need and do not have. The price for gaining that knowledge is loss of your own pride and ego or strictly cash. And you would be considered foreign, disrespectful, and yes, 'stubborn headed', thus charged a premium and probably ripped off anyway. There is no easy way into power, especially in a different culture where the memes are different. Get a Q'link or stay in Florida is my advice. Maybe try Iraq and see where it gets you.

I'm not living in China, but I lived in Malaysia for years--and in all the countries I've worked and lived in, "respectful" is the key word--especially in Asia. 'stubborn headed' makes you just another "ugly American", gets you in trouble, or costs you--Just because other countries do something different than we do in the U.S., doesn't make it wrong, --it's just different. Even in Peru, where I am now, with all it's corrupt governmental agencies, trying to get around regulations, will cost you dearly---In Peru, riding anything other than a China bike, makes you a big target for theft.
Buy a chinese bike and enjoy yourself--- Food for thought

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

I like to ride my KLR. Every government has a fouled up bureaucratic system and every society has locals to know their way around it.

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I know the KLR is a lovely bike, many people choose it as a solid, economical, world tourer. However, from most of the jokes I read on the internet, KLR riders can hardly afford the means to "get around" the bureaucratic system of China. I'm not trying to lump you in with the "economical" crowd, but those that have done something like this have spent a lot of time and money, and were more or less willing to leave the bike in China forever. We're not talking about slipping a Benjamin to the guy at customs, more like 3k-5k $USD$ to back door it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

I don't wanna ride 'in town'. It appears that provincal rules vary by quite a bit.

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Obviously, there is no point to riding around town, the good stuff is out in the country (what's left of it). Provincial rules do not really vary, with the exception of areas with ethnic unrest. It's 2011, China pretty much has blanket policies for motor vehicles across the entire country. Enforcement may vary a bit from place to place, but not when it comes to accidents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

I heard a rumor that foreign expert cert holders can get past the vehicle import problem.

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Old rumors die hard, emission and certification laws changed. Even if it were almost true, an older KLR would not meet the emission standard. Maybe a diplomatic VISA could get you a car, but the bike would be very difficult.

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

On this site I viewed a HD group out on a poker run. How did all those hogs get in?

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Some were purchased at the established Harley dealerships for insane prices, the others were back doored for insane prices. Either way, what you saw is the wealth network doing its magic in China.

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

also, somebody posted pics of a new CN bike they had bought with really questionable welding of the frame. Sorry, I'd feel uncomfortable on one of those.

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Pretty sure the same guy also posted this report about adventure touring on a 250cc China dual-sport. One of the guys on that trip (Daniel) is a factory sponsored KLR rider who has covered 100+ countries on KLR's and made several unsuccesful attempts at getting his into China. He didn't seem to mind riding a Chinese dual-sport. They're not all that bad.

Nothing wrong with being stubborn, I admire your position for wanting to fight a situation that is obviously not fair. If Chinese people can visit your country and tour, you should have the right to visit theirs and tour. Unfortunately, China doesn't play by the rules, and getting around it is going to cost you a lot of money. One other point to think about, if you have a full time job, you're taking a big risk. If you get into an accident or altercation on the road, the authorities are going to check everything very closely. An illegal bike would be a quick, one-way ticket out of the country.

Best of luck with your decision and adventures in China.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Thanks again ChinaV for your words of advice. I've tried to re-invent the wheel several times in my life, and this looks like a formidable challenge. I found the site www.export.gov/china/exporting_to_china/CCCAnnouncement8.pdf (A US govt translation of a CCC document) which reads; " 1. The products which don't need the CCC certificate; (a) The personal products which are brought into China by foreigners for personal use only." Any chance one could use this provision to bring in chains and brake pads?

RE illegal bikes, do you know of any deportations of US expats for this or any other reason? Here in Florida illegals get introuble with the law all the time. Unless it's a felony involving drugs or assaults they go through the legal process, do a little time and go back out on the street. IT also edepends on what the illegal's nationality is (Mexican vs Chinese). Go gotta love this, here in Fort Myers we've got illegal Chinese who own a Chinese restaurant (what else!) and employ illegal Mexicans to bus and wash dishes.

I joined this website just two days ago looking for a back door way of bringing a bike into China and I'm already being attacked by some self righteous a**hole "know-it-all' from Australia who's telling me to "stay in Florida or try Iraq". Look pal, I don't need ur s**t. If you dont like what's going on in Iraq then go picket or burn a US flag in front of some US consulate down under, or spend more time on one of those self help psycotherapy forums. It's guys like you that ruin forums like this.

Back door seems to suit you. A couple of folk tried to explain to you that it wasn't advisable and you decided to ignore them and continue with your attitude that a 'stubborn headed' guy from Florida can expect other folk, perhaps honest folk or certainly cautious folk would explain to him, a stranger, on a public forum frequented in the main by foreigners living in China, but certainly also by a good few friendly Chinese nationals, how to circumvent the law?

That is foolish and deserves contempt and rebuke. It is an attitude that many that are not American find all too common, it is VERY frustrating and very arrogant. The Chinese have a right to set in place whatever laws they wish to. You of course have a right to dislike that, and to circumvent them too. But don't expect any member of this forum to publically support you in it, the world isn't set up just for an immature Floridean fool to ride his KLR wherever he choses.

And your remark about welds was ill considered too, your favoured maker of the KLR, had to withdraw two years worth of those bikes after 2008 because they were in some danger of catching fire due to a design fault and a retrograde step to cheap plastics. We are all well aware of the faults of China bikes, it is why we come here to this forum.

Perhaps if you introduced yourself more politely, with tales of yourself and pictures of your machine, you would be tolerated more by arseholes like me. I know I am an arsehole, you haven't learned yet that you are. Perhaps a few more folk telling you, will teach you that.

Unfortunate as you may have felt the Iraq remark to have been, and perhaps it was, it was meant to convey two things - you can probably do illegal things more easily there as your country has certainly destroyed the structure of law, and over there you will have tooled up mates to back you. Here, you are just a mouth.

Some advise. Of course you can get a bike illegally into China. It is not hard. A good few trucks cross the massive borders in several places every day! And ships. But would a truck driver, an underworld contact, any Chinese national willing to help, or someone on here who may actually knows how to do it actually respond to you?

Would they trust you to be loyal and not squeal if caught? Would I tell you how to do it? Never, you are just another arrogant, mouthy prick and therefore untrustworthy, you deserve to find out the hard way and pay top dollar in my eyes. Maybe one day if you grow up you will learn how to approach the rest of the world and maybe then you may make friends and contacts and gain power enough to actually function. Then you may achieve what you wish. I do not mind a good argument, so contact me privately if you choose to continue this. The rest of the forum may or may not be amused but I am willing to educate you further.

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

Thanks again ChinaV for your words of advice. I've tried to re-invent the wheel several times in my life, and this looks like a formidable challenge. I found the site www.export.gov/china/exporting_to_china/CCCAnnouncement8.pdf (A US govt translation of a CCC document) which reads; " 1. The products which don't need the CCC certificate; (a) The personal products which are brought into China by foreigners for personal use only." Any chance one could use this provision to bring in chains and brake pads?

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That usually only works when you are physically carrying the goods across the border. Sometimes they stop you, create a big hassle, and then slap a 35% tariff on the perceived value of the goods. Other times, you just tell them it's for personal use and they let it slide. I lost two sets of tires at the border last year… sucked big time. Last week I carried my new Cannondale bicycle and nobody even gave me a second look. If you're shipping into the country, they are definitely going to take a peek, and quite often, asses an import tax. My family no longer sends Christmas gifts, as the import taxes were exceeding the value of the (Made in China) gifts :eek2:.

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

RE illegal bikes, do you know of any deportations of US expats for this or any other reason?

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It's not like people will get on forums and talk about getting booted out of a country, but I do know of people that have been expelled and denied VISA's. China is more powerful today than just a decade ago and there's a lot more nationalistic pride floating around. Ten years ago, being a foreigner was carte blanche to doing whatever you wanted. Over time, a lot of foreigners did just that, and started to build up resentment with many of the people here. Best thing is to keep a low profile... just like anywhere else in the world, be nice and respectful of people and they tend to treat you well. What you're probably going to have to do is find a mid size city with an active group of Chinese bikers, spend a huge amount of time drinking and befriending them, and then finally see if you can make connections with someone who knows someone. It's still going to require some cash, but things can happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

Here in Florida illegals get in trouble with the law all the time. Unless it's a felony involving drugs or assaults they go through the legal process, do a little time and go back out on the street. IT also depends on what the illegal's nationality is (Mexican vs Chinese). Go gotta love this, here in Fort Myers we've got illegal Chinese who own a Chinese restaurant (what else!) and employ illegal Mexicans to bus and wash dishes.

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My Chinese wife and I were eating dinner at a Chinese restaurant in San Francisco this summer, all the cooks were Mexican. She asked me why, and I told her the American/Chinese owner must be very successful :lol8:.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Capn Jer, here is a 2nd opinion, I've been in China for over 8 years, I speak Chinese and I have Chinese friends, here is my take.....

OK, so you are dead certain you want to ride a KLR around China. Lovely bike, and yes almost ideal for group adventure touring here, although I would prefer a 450 for adventure touring on my own in China, but you won't find hardly any here, and the chance of bringing one in is all too much of a headache. Sure they say you can bring in things that don't have a CCC, but that is for things like laptop computers, autos are really unlikely, because cars and bikes come under a different category. Also any law that puts a regular foreigner above the perceived status of a Chinese national is resented, and another law will be used to override it.

Take our advice buy a locally made 250cc bike. Why?

-You'll be able to get parts and tires.
-You'll have a registered bike.
-You'll have minimal insurance.
-You'll be less likely to be stopped by the police and get in less trouble in the event of an accident.
-The bike will be easier to sell or export.
-The bike will be easier to fix.
-You'll be able to get a minimal warranty.

So let's pretend you could bring in a KLR, where are you going to get parts? There aren't any in China.

So you're calling me a loud mouth prick now and telling me that in some way I'm responsible for the conditions in Iraq. You are a complete jerk and given the chance I'd kick your ass in, but being that you're just a demented miserable old codger I'll let the 'loud mouth prick' insult slide. Perhaps they need to up your meds at the infirmary cuz you got some serious problem going on inside your head

"I've lost two sets of tires at the border..." you said. What's the likelihood of buying good used parts across the border in Lao Cai, Cao Bang or Ha Giang, Vietnam? Surely there has got to be motorcycle shops servicing foreign bikes there. Could one ride across the border, have new tires, chains brake pads installed and then return. Just a thought

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7...t500imgstr.png

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

"I've lost two sets of tires at the border..." you said. What's the likelihood of buying good used parts across the border in Lao Cai, Cao Bang or Ha Giang, Vietnam? Surely there has got to be motorcycle shops servicing foreign bikes there. Could one ride across the border, have new tires, chains brake pads installed and then return. Just a thought

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I don't think you're quite grasping the magnitude of the entity you're dealing with here Capn. Have you been to S.E. Asia yet?

Anyway, the answer to both your questions is no. Used parts for your KLR in Vietnam from the bamboo hut that has never seen anything other than a Minsk :confused1: :lol8:. Very few people have entered Vietnam with a motorcycle from the outside.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Kawasaki stuff readily available in Thailand, as manufacturing facilities are located there. Readily means not, that it is cheap!
As the holder of a monopol, Kawasaki ask as much as they can get...and they get a lot...

Maybe Thailand is a better base for your intended KLR venture...China is definetly not suitable (I'm 7 years in China as well).

Hey Capn,

although you had a bumpy entry here, another welcome to the site :icon10:

It isn't so that you come to China and freely work, ride or do whatever you please - by far not. There are rules and you would have done much better if you had investigated a bit more after your first posts and replies to them.
The long nose bonus which existed a decade ago, has expired and most of us living and riding here have acknowledged this fact and are acting accordingly.
I believe that most of us on this forum who ride in China, are legal in terms of paperwork and more and more folks than ever before are going to get a Chinese driving license and are caring about a bike with a real registration, in other words, being fully road legal.
Sure, there are way too many bike related restrictions in this country, but it still provides extraordinary riding opportunities.

I am surely one of the guys who has always promoted (and still does) riding legality and I had my fights about it on this very forum :mwink:

Your options in brief, provided that you are going to live in a bike friendly area, are:
- buy a legal bike in China, new or used, domestic or imported
- buy another kind of bike :naughty: in China

Importing is only possible for new motor vehicles. The definition of new may be stretchable though :lol8:

It is unlikely that your plans succeed as nobody will take the risks involved for such a little thing and you will need someone to help.

Safe :riding:


P.S. Don't expect anyone publishing other than legal advice :deal:

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

I believe that most of us on this forum who ride in China, are legal in terms of paperwork and more and more folks than ever before are going to get a Chinese driving license and are caring about a bike with a real registration, in other words, being fully road legal.

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You're talking about me? :mwink:

Just picked up my Chinese driving license yesterday, a street legal bike is the next thing on my list!

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Originally Posted by Barry

You're talking about me? :mwink:

Just picked up my Chinese driving license yesterday, a street legal bike is the next thing on my list!

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Congrats. PM me your phone no and e-mail and we meet up for celebration :goodtime:
I am usually hanging out at Franks, close to Lido :deal:

Capn_jer,

What you don't seem to get is that people are bending over backwards to help you in this forum. And that many of us have decades of experience figuring out how to make shit that's not supposed to happen happen in what remains a police state. As others have suggested, if you really are serious about living, working and riding in China, you could do a whole lot worse than spending some time mining the copious insights that are freely and generously available in this forum, and stop assuming that the whole world turns the same way it does in the US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capn_jer

"I've lost two sets of tires at the border..." you said. What's the likelihood of buying good used parts across the border in Lao Cai, Cao Bang or Ha Giang, Vietnam? Surely there has got to be motorcycle shops servicing foreign bikes there. Could one ride across the border, have new tires, chains brake pads installed and then return. Just a thought

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As for your thoughts about riding into Vietnam to get a tune-up and tires, your premise of course is that you'd be riding your KLR from inside China and that said KLR is all legally plated and insured in China. But the chances of you achieving this status with your KLR are -- as some of our most experienced members have already advised -- virtually nil. Kawi has no dealer network in China, and its bikes are not among the four, yes, four international brands that as of today are legally imported (BMW, Ducati, Harley-Davidson and Benelli). Unlike Yammie and Suzy and Hondy, all of which have some form of JV or licensed production in China, I don't think Kawi even have a local partner. I'm a KLRista myself, and guess where you'll find my KLR? Yeah, parked at my sister's place in San Rafael, CA. I keep my legal (and remarkably KLR-like) JH600 in my underground garage in Shanghai. Yeah, it pisses me off that what I paid for one new Chinabike and a plate in Shanghai (north of US$11k) would have bought not just a couple but four or five recent-year KLRs or any of a million other wonderful bikes you are so lucky to choose from in the US or pretty much anywhere else on the planet. China is not the rest of the world.

Oh Capn, my Capn, we are not making this shit up just to get your goat. So, if you could kindly park the attitude, and start listening to those of us who are and have been for many years on the front lines of motorcycling in one of the greatest but still most challenging places to ride on the planet, you'll have a much less bumpy ride.

And you'll find that our grumpy old sod Jape is one of the most experienced and resourceful and thoughtful and generous motorcyclists and chinabike aficionados in our forum.

Happy New Year!

Incidentally, here's what a Kawasaki looks like in China:

http://www.tradeeasy.com/photo/selle...2_DSC01044.JPG

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Not nearly as tough as a KLR... and shouldn't they be green :confused1:

Attachment 2895

Cheers!
ChinaV

Hey Capn_jer,

this is by far the coolest(?) entry tread to MCM I ever read (well, except for the one with the pretty disco girl maybe...). I have been off for a while and just saw it this morning. Couldn't stop laughing...

I really do hope you stay with us and share your experience when you come to China. This is going to be great. You will find a lot of help, also here in this forum (provided you study it more), but in the end you have to make your own experience and find out by yourself what works best for you. Most of us have been more or less at the point where you are at now maybe 7, 8, 10 or like me, almost 20 years ago, when I first came to S.E. Asia. We all had to learn it the friendly or the hard way. What you found here so far, is the essence of this experience. If you want to invent the wheel again, I guess we all are interested to see how you are getting around.

So far, I just can underline, what ChinaV and the other guys are advising. After all, here in China there is no reason to ask "WHY?". This is China - T.I.C - that's it. You'll find out once you come here.

My advise for you (only if you decide to maintain the stubbornness): DON'T get a China bike!!!
Try to get you KLR into China, get a bloody nose, loose your dollars, and stay without a ride in China for a while until you get so desperate to ride, that you will do anything to get on a bike, including making a drivers license and getting a street legal bike with all papers. After all, you will then belong to a privileged group of riders, who can travel around on a motorcycle more or less freely in China. This chance is not available easily.
If you haven't done it yet, then it might be a good idea to try and understand more about China, before you get here. This might help.

Cheers and good luck,
AW.

Hello Mr. Pfaelzer, Hey, thanks for seeing the humor in all this. Attempting to put square pegs in round holes seems to suit me. So, is it possible to hand carry, or have one's girlfriend hand carry bike parts thru customs on a return flight from Thailand?

Also should one try to convert a US motorcycle edorsement or just start from scratch in applying for one in China, and which provinces provide for written tests in English?

How good or bad is the frame welding on your JH600? Someone's posted pics of really questionable welding on a China bike.

Hi,
yes, we should take stuff a bit easy. It's about having some fun here after all.

Hand-carrying parts is a va-banque game. They catch you - then you need to pay. As ChinaV said, you even can loose stuff. I had many parts hand-carried into China, but recently they had another change in custom regulation. When this happens, then everything becomes more sensitive - especially when events like Asia-Games are on. Sounds funny, but again: T.I.C. They got me (actually the guy who was traveling with me once at the train station. The guy had as brand-new laptop computer in his luggage - plus the one in his bag, which he currently was using. They didn't like that - took out some list with custom tariffs - finally after a lot of time and patience, we could negotiate the amount, but it was still painful and it was lucky, that one of the officers could speak english - just one example.

Start from scratch - a bit harder but you'll have more fun on the long-term. Guangdong provides english written test formats. I am not sure about other provinces.

I have never heard of frame problems on the JH600. The bike is actually designed as a sidecar bike (check the side-car section here), therefore the frame is strong - but also quite wide. Anyhow, the JH600 is one of the more expensive bikes around here. Depending on your needs (on/off-road, two up,...) there is a choice of other, smaller bikes around. I wouldn't worry too much about the welding jobs. The bikes are usually rather cheap. If something breaks, it can be fixed - with an enforcement if needed.

That "someone" you are mentioning here, is a very quality focused, sometimes picky, but also a very guy... You'll find out.

Cheers,
AW.

More examples of what Kawasakis in China look like...
:lol8::lol8::lol8:

http://www.khi.co.jp/ship/product/up...ship_A5_01.jpg

http://www.khi.co.jp/product/upload_...mg_cp_a074.jpg

http://www.khi.co.jp/product/upload_images/A134_A.jpg

http://www.khi.co.jp/product/upload_images/A105_A.jpg

http://www.khi.co.jp/product/upload_...mg_cp_a012.jpg

http://www.khi.co.jp/product/upload_...mg_cp_a122.jpg

http://www.khi.co.jp/product/upload_...mg_cp_a196.jpg

And finally, here's 30 minutes of twisty video featuring a guy called Big Head riding perhaps the ONLY KLR650 in all China up a mountainside in Quanzhou...

Big Head KLR650 video

IT CAN BE DONE! (Just don't ask Big Head where he got his plate...)