Printable View
Dear all,
According to my - usually well informed source - the manufacturers Ja Ling, Jian She and QingQi are joining forces and would blend into one giant manufacturer. Does anybody in this forum have more information on this joint venture?
Regards!
Bart Sanders
Hi Bart,
I mentioned this in a couple threads before. Last time being the CIMA 2010 show report.
http://www.contactdi.com/Processed/CQ006.jpg
http://www.contactdi.com/Processed/CQ007.jpg
This is not necessarily a good thing. You take a handful of slow moving, unresponsive, state-owned enterprises and join them into one huge, slow moving, unresponsive, state-owned enterprise. These companies are government driven and have little passion for the motorcycle industry. If you take a look at the movers and shakers, it's the smaller companies that seem to be driving innovation here.
Cheers!
ChinaV
Worse yet, the Übergruppe holding company "China South", which sounds so innocuous in English, is being a bit dishonest with the translation of its Chinese name, 中国兵器装备集团, which you can see in ChinaV's first image. A literal translation is China Ordnance Equipment Group Corporation. Yes, one of the biggest weapons makers in China. Vroom! Vroom!
Out of curiousity I just had a squiz over to their website and found this line: In terms of motorcycle industry, it is the largest motorcycle group in the world and has famous brands such as Jialing, Jianshe, Dayang and Qingqi, with the annual production capacity nearly 6 million sets. :deal:
Six million motorcycles a year! And they still know zip about customer service and marketing.
TIC.
cheers
And it doesn't stop there.
According to a press release on Chinamotorworld (http://www.chinamotorworld.com/viewnews.asp?id=1563) ...
"The next step will be the integration of the seven Chinese major motorcycle brands including Jialing, Jianshe, Qingqi, Qingqi Suzuki, Dayang, Jianshe Yamaha and Qingqi Peugeot ... The motorcycle output and sales of the Chongqing Southern Motorcycle Co., Ltd will be increased to 12 million units next year from 6 million units of this year."
Bigger is not always better.
Hello All and ChinaV especially,
Thanks for the updates, I'm now getting a much better picture of what is going on. Interesting to me is the military history behind all this when you read the information well. As a true outsider it looks to me that China's growth in some areas has its roots in manufacturers (partially) owned/controlled by the military. Fascinating!
Regards!
Just like the rest of the world.
They are using private sector industries and primarily global exports to fund a very large military restructuring. They are using these industrial groups to set up funding models which include research and development of military equipment? These will eventually be separated?
Other models funds through taxation government is not directly managing or funded anything like this.
In private industry each unit has a R&D cost that is allocated to a R&D account. In these Industrial Groups the profit over costs is used to funds other things.
So all in that groups profits are allocated to developing and funding the military.
This South China Ordnance Group is only one there are others also, the government did not choose these to consolidate and establish brands or to develop cohesive product lines or even business models. They are collectivizing assets to fund the restructuring of national defense.
The research and development is not going into 600cc motorcycles…it’s going into developing world class military equipment. Some of it not all of it…they have to maintain the industry so they allocate funds to develop what can sell and if not they will not get more funding. The 250cc GN engine is one example that development was allocated by the group. They can get more but won’t if it interferes with the primary function of the asset group and that’s to fund the military.
Jape is correct that anything you buy from a foreign country funds its government and in that its military. However these OEM relationship that offer technology may be on the edge of some federal laws? They are actually funding nearly directly the Chinese military. I can assure you these people do not know that or care they are blinded by $ and actually not much brighter then those that gave it all up to the likes of Enron, Madoff and Lou Perlman.
And the next step in the decades to come is that decadent western cultures will either collapse or start another war or two. I would rather have seen the victims of the twin towers die unavenged than see the ten to one and more retribution played out on innocents in the name of lies, not honour.
The coming decades will take the lives of another million or so children and non-combatants in the name of acceptable collatoral damage. It will also push back any societal evolution, any understanding between races and tribes and religions. The Chinese are not stupid. They see all this and prepare, maybe even prepare to pre-empt. Nothing strategically different from any other time or place in history except that the weapons and battlefields grow large enough to consume the world.
Meanwhile we imps of hell get to play with the toys spawned by the master demons before we go and kill or be killed. Nothing changes.
I would say that if there is no eventual alterative funding model for the military these entities will be straggled by this system, they will never move ahead or develop new models. But conversely I’d rather not see the Chinese sell ,but I am sure they do, their new advanced military equipment and production capability of said equipment to others nations that are lead by a radical theocracy, in order to fund it’s military.
But then again knowing that these groups are manufacturing low quality low technology products into a competitive market I feel relatively secure?
So you can buy a corporate made bike that funds a stock market that cycles capital back into the free market or you can buy bike that funds the making of guns and bombs.
Solipsism is no answer MJH. You merely repeat what you have said over and over again, you seem brainwashed to me, within your paradigm. There is no radical theocracy out to get americans except as a reactive energy. There is no free market ideal or democracy being protected by the Marines, it is all illusion. There is simply greed, hate, and envy in the souls of many immature people that are mainly male and mainly in power in western states. Scapegoats appear each century, jews, muslims and now, if you look the other way around, so-called christians that keep no tenet of true christianity.
I think the Chinese see all of this. They have a few billion people to house and feed. Of course they build structures. You cannot judge those structures by your limited definitions, the goals are not yours. they know there is stupidity, corruption and ignorance built into their systems and perhaps they simply choos enot to purge them in the name of other gods such as efficiency or bottomline. The bureaucratic systems they have applied in the past (while many of our ancestors appeared as simple savages) are certainly capable of overcoming such flaws.
However, there are obviously contradictions and flaws inherent in human nature itself - so perhaps they knowingly choose flaws that are acceptable to them. I don't think they really care about your philosophy or education or viewpoint.
As I said, meanwhile we get to play with the toys. You are doing the same, playing with the intellectual toys. Ride your bike for a while, while we still have a planet to ride on.
Kevala Jñāna UUUUMMMMMQuote:
Originally Posted by jape
Inner knowledge doesn't mean the outer manifestations of the understanding are pure. And 'wise' is translatable to many cultures. My own knowledge includes manipulation of forces toward an end, not constantly kneeling to sweep insects out of the way. Debate is healthy, unless you would prefer talking to yourself and being ignored by all?
Communicating is what the other person/group/trees/planets/un-nameble stuff you could think of talking to.. understands. NOT WHAT YOU SAY.
If I choose to keep talking without waiting for someone to acknoledge what I said, I might as well talk to my toes.
I hope my no one takes my words to be offensive.
I knew it, MJH is a robot!Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
I try not to leave the topic its considered good form to stay on topic in a forum and I was not off topic. The Chinese Ordnance Group manufactures motorcycles and bombs. If you are ok with that then your ok with that. I have a conflicted feeling on that and the related choices are options and are mine. I can sell the bike and then simply refuse to purchase more out of that group and I may take that option. I can also do other things I do live in a democracy and can address all my concerns with my democratic representative. There are allot of issue that need to be undressed with respects to this industry and it practices.
I have some contention with US corporations partnering with foreign governments ventures. I see it as funding a rise of militarism and I have contention in that.
But what is different in my approach and why my voice gets heard often is that I do not only define the concern and I will not address that concern unless I also can offer a concise solution.
If you do not like being treated as a gadfly then stop acting like one? It’s foolish to call for debate and then open a Pandora’s box of subject matter.