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I haven't checked with the vendor about DOT or ADR yet but this looks like a neat helmet. I like full face but they are a pain when adjusting sunnies, scarf, eating, drinking, talking, anything really!
I wonder though about the strength of flip-front helmets in a crash. Can't be as strong as a fixed full-face. Any thoughts?
Attachment 3406
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Matt-Black-Fli...item19c37b58a5
jape,
Good news on the safety of modular helmets. (Snell labs checks the safety of chin bars and DOT does not).
See:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/zeus-.../zeus-zs-3000/
The Zeus ZS-3000: First Flip-up Helmet to Meet Snell 2005 Safety Standards!
Summary
The Zeus ZS-3000 has excellent quality, a solid-feeling helmet shell and a comfortable liner that is removable and washable. The helmet is also convertible to an open-face style; and, best of all, the ZS-3000 is currently Snell approval in the small shell size (XS to M).
The helmets are also available in a wide array of colors and graphics not often seen on a flip-up. Combine that with some of the lowest prices around for a flip-up helmet and our prediction is that Zeus won't be able to make these fast enough!
EDIT: Zeus ZS-3000 only available in size XS, S, M
WTF?
Dammit, as some have remarked, I have a big head ... XL in fact.
I have sent a query to vendor (in China as usual) asking about compliance with DOT, ECE 22.05 (Europe and UK), or AS 1698 (Australia) motorcycle helmet safety standards. Apparently AS is best because it tests all batches of helmet somehow, while DOT is just a random testing and ECE is tested for two knocks but not so hard as the AS! Will post what they say.
Thanks Vince.
i've seen alot of the Old guys up here in their modular helmets and often remarked how comfortable they are on their scooters and touring bikes
Well I'm nearly an official 'Old Guy', 60 in a month so I wouldn't mind being comfortable like the 'road cruisers'. They probably all lived good lives and saved their money and got Shoei. Me, well lets just say $100 is a stretch so cheap Chinese is fine if it meets standards. Can't ride much at the moment so I am planning ahead looking at such things as this helmet and some proper mc boots.
andre555 can you see this? Please show us your Nolan. Has a detachable chin bar instead of the bulky looking flip cover.
Looks very similar to the LS2 FF369 ->http://s.taobao.com/search?q=ls2+369
Jape,
These flip-front helmets are called "modular" to distinguish them from full-face, three-quarter, open face and other designs. Here in China there are lots of choices, and the major brands all seem to be DOT if not SNELL approved. The most popular seem to be the Yohe and LS2 models, both in the neighborhood of US$50. The model you found in eBay is probably a variation on one of these.
I've also been looking at the Nolan N103 and the Scorpion EXO900, both of which are available in China in the $150-200 range, i.e., still cheaper than in the US. These both have compartments for bluetooth systems. The Scorpion is called the "Transformer" because its chin bar can be adapted to create three different helmet styles.
I tried the Nolan and did not like the fit. I'm going to try the Scorpion today, but will probably try the two cheaper models in the same shop.
If you want to see the (dizzying) full range of modulars in Taobao, try this link.
cheers
http://www.nolanhelmets.com/images/h...yncomviews.jpg
Nolan N43 AIR - Thats what I use - comfortable, flexible, excellent ventilation, not cheap though.
With integrated sunshades, I wear glasses, so can flip sunshades down if needed, no need to change glasses. Important also for the unlit tunnels you encounter in China!
Be carefull there are two versions of the N43, only the Air has the all ventilation oppenings!
Can be retrofitted witha Bluetooth Handsfree/Intercom Kit.
I would never buy a helmet without trying it. If the size does not fit you can carry watermeleons from the market home, but what else?
Full review and more pictures are here:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motor...met/nolan-n43/
Andre,
Interesting helmet! Hadn't seen that one before. Do you generally run it with the chin bar in place?
Here's the N43 in Taobao. Yes, not cheap!
Short runs to the bakery and grocery store without chin bar, more like a Jet Helmet with visor. But otherwise with Chin bar in it. But its really easy to take off the chin bar, so you can eat/drink/dont look like a taikonaut when interacting with people.
I went to shop in Germany, told them I will ride in South China, there it is warm and I need to wear glasses. So they immediatly jumped at this helmet. I'm happy with it, suits my needs perfectly.
Probably not an expressway helmet. At 100kph and above you'd have a ton of wind noise, I'm guessing.
thanks for your detailed explanation.
I guess this is why folks end up having multiple helmets!
How about Zeus ZS508W?Quote:
Originally Posted by jape
Expensive indeed. But I really can't put a price on my head can I? Anyone seen a similar Chinese ripoff? I like the this more than the flip-modular helmets. It's lighter, better ventilated, but still good protection. I also wear optical glasses, so the built in sunshield is quiet handy. On my three-quarter Nolan, i have two visors. If I'm entering a tunnel in the daytime, I simply flip up the outer visor. Seems same on this helmet.Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
If I can't find a good Chinese rip off, most probably I'll pay 1200rmb for this one.
The vendor of the original helmet got back to me. He says it has a DOT label and was very friendly. Well, they are often friendly and a label doesn't mean much I suppose. The Ebay link I gave in the first post is to a Chinese company so if anyone likes it, it is available there cheaper I am sure.
Those Nolans were nearer rmb 2000 Naim, the 'air' ones anyway. Very nice but a bit rich for me.
My friendly local bike magazine isn't impressed with DOT safety ratings, so I shall stick to my AS full-face one for now and see what I can pick up in China when I get there. At this rate I will need a 747 to myself, just to bring stuff back!
Thank you for that. I hate to be the only one that links quality to money to safety. 10 dollar head, 10 dollar helmet as they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by slabo
Cheers!
ChinaV
What does $50 make me then?
Seriously, I am not sure, past the point of AS and DOT standards, that you do get any more safety. Lightness and maybe ventilation, longevity. Until you get up to $600 carbon fibre/fibreglass composites, those may exceed ratings.
$50 makes you smarter than those that ride without protection at all, but a good $100-$200 investment in a reputable helmet is money well spent. Lightness could make all the difference when it comes to neck trauma, but I don't see many other advantages in my $400 Shoei Multitec and my $600 UVEX carbon fiber over a midline HJC or other brands in the $200 price range. The important thing is avoiding polycarbonates, they bounce when you hit the ground, not a good thing. Advanced compounds like fiberglass and carbon composites absorb the impact, which reduces neck injuries. We used to have a bunch of helmets cut in half at the old shop I worked in, there was a huge difference in the shell construction of sub $100 helmets vs the more expensive stuff. Impact ratings do not reflect the helmets ability to absorb shock, that is why a well made helmet needs to be disposed of after a hard hit. As others have mentioned, it all starts with proper fit.
Cheers!
ChinaV
I'm interested in this discussion too. I see some of the major international helmets -- HJC, Nolan, Caberg, and several others -- selling in China for maybe 33% less than in the US market, and I'm making two big presumptions: 1) they are genuine not ripoffs and 2) they are made in China so they can bleed into the local market at much lower cost. But beyond that, what is it that makes a Shoei or an Arai or a Suomy helmet worth $500, $600 or even $800 when helmets with DOT or SNELL or CE or all three ratings are selling in China for $50 or $100.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not questioning the value, I'm just not understanding it. Last night I tried on an HJC IS-Max BT, which is "bluetooth ready" and it was the best fitting modular I could find, and I tried a lot. The price in Shanghai? 616 RMB, or a bit south of $100. That's less than half of its US$199 MSRP. Build quality was very good. Fit excellent. Is this helmet one-sixth the value of a $600 Shoei or Arai? One half? Equal? Better? Are there ratings on these things?
For what it's worth, here's the review of this HJC model in WebBikeWorld.com, which seems a pretty authoritative site.
Thanks!
I'm going to look into this further, although Lorne covered most of the common-sense side as what he said about polycarbonate was new to me. I have no idea what mine is made of, but it is big and bulbous and has AS rating. I had thought that the expensive composites were just to give the same strength as that in a smaller, lighter shape (good for travelling long distance) - but needing both the expensive carbon-fibre for penetration defense and the fibreglass and foam for impact, to achieve that. I also remember the foam make-up of the EEC standard ones was different to allow for a double bounce of the bonce, (not two different crashes) and that this design was less strong than the Australian Standard which is tested for one big bash!
start here: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html
My god - this is spooky - maybe we were separated at birth.Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
Yesterday afternoon (this time, BEFORE you), I bought an HJC CL-Max (lower end model) for about 450 rmb ... because "it is the best fitting modular I have found". I also own a Shoei, a BMW System 5, a Caberg and several less famous brands. All are kinda uncomfortable because of my handsome square jaw, my finely sculptured cheek bones, and my extra large brain. Actually, the BMW fits the worst, but it does make me look like a cool Star Wars trooper.
I'm really happy with the HJC fit. And I didn't need BT-ready, as I have pearly white teeth, thanks. Paid a lot of money for these chompers! I hope the HJC protects them.
Do the HJC's here in China have DOT stickers? I bought my myself and my wife HJC IS-16 helmets (not modular) online in the states before we came here because I assumed the opposite of Euphonius: I assumed if we could even find "international" brands in China, they would be fakes or at least sub-standard. I suppose DOT stickers are easily faked hopefully no one ever needs their helmet, but due to the $10 helmet / $10 head rule it seems not worth the risk.
Maybe I should take my IS-16 into a shop and compare it with a local one, I guess it could be interesting to see if there are differences. I guess some of them might be hard to determine, but if it was a fake I guess think it might stand out. Knowing how many corners get cut around here though, I'm not sure I'd want to chance it with a helmet.
Josh,
Scroll down through the images in this Taobao posting and you'll see a DOT sticker.
http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/...!!62705871.jpg
Maybe I'm naive, but I think these helmets are no longer worth bootlegging. They just bleed out of the factory and sell for a lot less than US MSRP.
cheers
Read this... the whole thing, don't just skim...it will make your head hurt. All bets are off, nobody really knows if a cheap polycarb is better than an expensive carbon fiber. One thing you probably do get for more money is consistent quality control and better fit and finish. Also one thing I didn't mention before, you might like a particular brand, but that doesn't mean they make a helmet that will fit your head. I love Arai, but they just don't fit, I also have two Shoei Multitecs (one USA, one HK) and they are not the same, the HK one is actually designed for Asian heads.
Cheers!
ChinaV
Awesome, thanks, Jape and ChinaV.
cheers
Thanks Jape & ChinaV - interesting read. It pseudo-confirmed a suspicion I've harbored, specifically that most people assume that big money = big protection. But because of the millions of variables involved in an accident, this isn't really the case. I was out riding with a guy last weekend who had a very expensive helmet but he complained that it gave him headaches after an hour, or so, because it squeezed his temples. But he was adamant that he was well-protected, and felt that the "head in a vise" fit was a good thing. I kinda thought he was asking for trouble if he had a headache, but kept my mouth shut.
The article also raised a few things I've wondered about in the past.
It seems that the vast majority of in-motion accidents result in the head sliding, as opposed to a direct fall. And, actually, the direct fall can occur from just sitting on your bike and falling over onto the pavement. We all know that a person falling down and banging their head can cause quite a serious injury, even death. The added risk with motorcycling is, of course, scraping your head along the pavement from an in-motion accident.
My noggin's little grey matter therefore argues strongly for a full face helmet (i.e., protect the face / chin from scraping). Of course, I'm as guilty as the next biker - and sometimes wear a half-helmet (hot days) with shorts and running shoes. I also sometimes run across the street, mid-block, dodging traffic, Chinese style. We can't all be perfect, all the time.
The other thing I wonder about is the difference between bicyclists' helmets and motorcycle helmets. Many bicyclists zoom along at a pretty good clip on a machine that seems much less stable, yet they wear such a tiny little head protector. A cycling helmet is a million times better than no helmet, for sure, but I've often wondered why cyclists don't move towards some form of face protection. Too uncool? I guess people would laugh seeing a cyclist in a full-face helmet. But I also recall the days when any cyclist was laughed at for riding with any helmet.
AHEM, look at post 20 NOW I KNOW YOU LOT IGNORE ME!:rolleyes1::eekers:
oh well, as long as it gets read:thumbsup:
not me, buddy! Post 27 includes appropriate referencing, in accordance with academic guidelines!Quote:
Originally Posted by jape
(ya gotta luv the edit function, eh?)
Merci Monseigneur,
Ok so I am a slack arse, should have told you more instead of just posting the link and expecting you to work it out for yourselves as members of the intelligentsia ...:rolleyes1:
I also found a great statistical follow up by one of the professors involved who did some charting on head-shape and sizes between different makes - but you can do your own googling now!:lol8:
Actually, Jape, I saw your link, called up the page, watched the Suzuki ad, then saw a huge long article from 2005, and thought, not right now. ChinaV put it back on the front burner by basically saying, here's why it's worth reading now not later. Hope no offense!
As for the article, against my better judgment I was up till 2:30 am reading it. By the end, I felt, well, hell, I know a lot more now, and it seems the main lesson is simple: Wear a full face helmet that meets any or all of these standards, but don't stress too much over the details of which one. It's a binary thing: Wear or not wear. Correct response: Wear!